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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    78
    Quote Originally Posted by indika View Post
    i understand better now,
    but i guess sony will be the best solution for me..? i do care about image stabilization, and image quality , and the easy of the menue and use of the camera.

    SONY ALPHA will be my next camera? or should i still check other options like canon? or other companies?

    and if you think i should go with canon can you recomend a store and a deal? and lenss to go with the sony?
    Canon DSLR cameras do not have "in body" image stabilization (IS) so you will have to buy a lens with IS built in if you want that as you have said. The Canon kit lenses do not have IS.

    Only the Sony, Pentax and Olympus DSLRs have in-body IS as far as I can remember. They will give you IS with the kit lenses. All other DSLRs will require purchase of another lens with built-in IS and that will take you out of your price range. The Panasonic DMC-L1 DSLR comes with IS in the kit lens but at about $1280, it is out of your price range.

    Mike S.
    Last edited by Mike S.; 07-05-2007 at 01:51 PM.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    6,590
    Lenses are very important, a not so good lens will influence the final outcome of a photo (with less sharp results, or with darker corners (sometimes referred to as vignetting), or colour shadows (CA), or purple edges around light areas (purple fringing), distortion and such).

    So, do take that into account when going for a DSLR. Now, or in future, you will want better lenses.

    Most DSLRs are easy to use. Only more professional cameras like the Canon EOS 5D, EOS 1D series, Nikon D200 and Nikon D2X get to be quite complex.

    Entry level DSLR bodies that you could consider:

    Sony A100. Really complete camera, with in-body IS. 10mp

    Pentax K100D. Complete camera, also with in-body IS. 6mp

    Nikon D40. Least complete camera of all. 6mp

    Nikon D40X. Same as D40, but 10mp

    Canon XT/350D. Complete camera, 8mp

    Canon XTi/400D. Complete camera, 10mp

    Olympus E-410. Smallest DSLR. Live preview (you can use the LCD to look at the subject). 10mp

    Olympus E510. Live preview, in body IS. 10mp

    As far as what Mike S. says... REAL image stabilization is not with in-body IS... there is no "real" and "fake". Most affordable is in-body IS, best is in-lens IS.

    Since you want it to be as cheap as you can get it, I would look at the Pentax K100D, which offers a lot for a low budget.
    Either get the K100D body with Sigma 18-200mm or Tamron 18-250 lens (this may push you over budget), or go for a kit lens and a Sigma 70-300 f4-5.6 APO DG macro tele zoom lens. This option will keep you within budget.

    The kitlens of the Sony A100 must be one of the least lenses on the market... so if you choose the A100, try getting another lens, like the Sigma 18-125mm, the Sigma 18-50 f2.8 EX DG Macro. If you want more reach, and your budget will allow it, look at the Sigma 70-300 APO DG macro to accompany them.

    I do not know what the kit prices of the Olympus E510 are, but if they are under $1000 for the 2 kit lens kit, then you should also consider a look at that camera.
    Canon EOS 350D, Tamron SP AF 90mm F/2.8 macro, Sigma 18-50mm F2.8 DC EX, Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM, Tokina AT-X124 Pro 12-24mm F4, Soligor 1.7x C/D4 DG Teleconvertor, Manfrotto 724B tripod, Canon Powershot S30

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    10

    i understand more but some more questions :)

    Quote Originally Posted by coldrain View Post
    Lenses are very important, a not so good lens will influence the final outcome of a photo (with less sharp results, or with darker corners (sometimes referred to as vignetting), or colour shadows (CA), or purple edges around light areas (purple fringing), distortion and such).

    So, do take that into account when going for a DSLR. Now, or in future, you will want better lenses.

    Most DSLRs are easy to use. Only more professional cameras like the Canon EOS 5D, EOS 1D series, Nikon D200 and Nikon D2X get to be quite complex.

    Entry level DSLR bodies that you could consider:

    Sony A100. Really complete camera, with in-body IS. 10mp

    Nikon D40X. Same as D40, but 10mp

    Canon XTi/400D. Complete camera, 10mp
    these are the 3 cameras im considering now...
    but not sure what to choose,
    there are some deals here :
    nikon:
    http://www.jr.com/JRSectionView.proc...x=5&search.y=5

    do you think i should buy something from that site? its good prices..

    and here are some sony deals:
    http://www.jr.com/JRSectionView.proc...=12&search.y=8

    and more nikon:
    http://www.beachcamera.com/shop/prod...40X&sku=NKD40X

    some canon deals:
    http://www.jr.com/JRSectionView.proc...ch&lastSearch=

    if i get the nikon\canon for 650$ -+
    cand i find a good lens for 100-150 $ ?

    they are about the same price :\ im so comfused..
    the only thins that i really like is the menue of the d40x
    Last edited by indika; 07-05-2007 at 02:30 PM.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by coldrain View Post
    As far as what Mike S. says... REAL image stabilization is not with in-body IS... there is no "real" and "fake". Most affordable is in-body IS, best is in-lens IS.
    Coldrain,

    When I said "real" IS, I was referring to optical IS in the lens or sensor shift IS in the body. This is opposed to the "fake" IS that some manufacturers are using lately which is just increasing the ISO to allow faster shutter speed and thus minimizing blur somewhat.

    Well versed folks like you already know the difference but newbies could see an ad with the word "stabilized" and not know to differentiate between "real" and "fake" IS.

    Thanks,
    Mike S.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    6
    Just a heads up be careful what warranty you are getting when you buy your camera. Some sites might lower their prices only because they are selling you a gray market product. Even sites that list USA warranty are still gray market product.

    My only input into which dslr to get is make sure you do your research because you will probably be investing a lot of money into it later down the line. I'd say start with a kit. And to reiterate, visit a store and feel them out.
    Nikon D200
    Nikkor 18-200mm VR
    Nikkor 50mm f/1.8
    SB-800 Flash

    My Gallery

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Northern Colorado, USA
    Posts
    2,225
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike S. View Post
    Coldrain,

    When I said "real" IS, I was referring to optical IS in the lens or sensor shift IS in the body. This is opposed to the "fake" IS that some manufacturers are using lately which is just increasing the ISO to allow faster shutter speed and thus minimizing blur somewhat.

    Well versed folks like you already know the difference but newbies could see an ad with the word "stabilized" and not know to differentiate between "real" and "fake" IS.

    Thanks,
    Mike S.
    The "fake" IS is only used on fixed lens camaras and is little more than a marketiing gimmick. You will not find this listed as a form of image stabilization on dSLRs, yet you will find the capability on most, if not all dSLRs. It's called Auto ISO. Some people love it. Some people hate it. Some people just don't care and don't use it (like me).

    Interestingly, because of the superior noise performance of dSLR cameras, this is actually more useful and effective than with fixed lens cameras.
    Eric Lund
    Nikon D200
    Nikkors: 17-55mm f2.8, 18-200mm f3.5-f4.5 VR, 70-300mm f4.5-5.6 VR, 35mm f2, 50mm f1.8, 55mm f2.8 AI-S micro, 105mm f2.8 VR micro
    Other Lenses: Tokina 12-24 f4, Tamron 75-300mm f4-5.6 LD macro
    Stuff: Nikon SB800, Nikon MBD200, Gitzo 1327 Tripod w/RRS BH-55LR Ballhead, Sekonic L-358 meter

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike S. View Post
    Coldrain,

    When I said "real" IS, I was referring to optical IS in the lens or sensor shift IS in the body. This is opposed to the "fake" IS that some manufacturers are using lately which is just increasing the ISO to allow faster shutter speed and thus minimizing blur somewhat.

    Well versed folks like you already know the difference but newbies could see an ad with the word "stabilized" and not know to differentiate between "real" and "fake" IS.

    Thanks,
    Mike S.
    ok..
    but i didint understand how do you notice the difference bitween fake and real?
    are you saying that the built-in focus that sony A100 has is better then auto focus in a built-in lens that i will buy for a nikon d40x\canon Xti ??

    please just sombody pick one of these three cameras for me and give me a convicng reason why i should buy it....

    is best-buy the best store to buy from?

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,560

    Whatever ...

    The SONY A100 / TAMRON AF18-250mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di-II LD lens is still the best out of the box combination for about $1100. At an 18-inch minimum focus, it covers just about all aspects of modern photography. Try one out!

    With that being said ... discuss ... discuss. LOL


    In fact, here, take a look see ...

    Name:  Here-take-a-look.jpg
Views: 136
Size:  218.6 KB
    Taken with: Canon EOS 20D w/ TAMRON SP AF 28-105mm f/2.8 LD

    Turns that shot right around ...

    Name:  quick-shot.jpg
Views: 132
Size:  231.5 KB
    Taken with: SONY A100 w/ TAMRON AF18-250mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di-II LD Aspherical (IF)

    Now, how about that? A DCRP self-portrait.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 07-05-2007 at 06:04 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by indika View Post
    ok..
    but i didint understand how do you notice the difference bitween fake and real?
    are you saying that the built-in focus that sony A100 has is better then auto focus in a built-in lens that i will buy for a nikon d40x\canon Xti ??
    The "fake" and "real" image stabilization (IS) that I referred to is not related to auto focus at all.

    "Real" image stabilization makes the image less shakey by either mechanically moving an element in the lens assembly (Canon, Nikon, Panasonic) or by mechanically moving the sensor in the camera body (Sony, Pentax, Olympus). The end result is that camera shake induced by the shooter is "mechanically" minimized to have a better chance of taking sharp photos. It is as though the shooter was able to hold the camera much more steadily than he/she is actually holding it. Somewhat like putting the camera on a tripod but not quite as effective. It is more useful when zoomed in using a long telephoto lens and not really necessary when close to the subject(s) like typical shots at parties or of the kids that most people take.

    The auto focus can result in sharp photos by "focusing" the picture on the sensor at its sharpest that the lens used is capable of, though it sometimes gets confused and focuses on the wrong thing. It is not related to camera shake induced by the shooter. All digital cameras from P&S to DSLRs have auto focus.

    To differentiate between real and fake IS, look at the camera specs. If it says "optical image stabilization" in the lens or "sensor shift image stabilization" in the camera body, then it is real IS.

    If it says it gets stabilization by rasing the ISO, then it is "fake" and is just amplifying the image on the sensor allowing a faster shutter. Faster shutters mean less blur either by camera shake from the shooter or by subject movement. ALL DSLRs and most P&S cameras allow the operator to increase the ISO for low light situations so saying that a camera is "stabilized by raising the ISO" is just a gimmik by the manufacturers. Note that increasing the ISO means more noise in your photos. Like another poster said that gimmik is used for fixed lens cameras. The Fuji S6000fd is an example of the company trying to mislead the buyer into thinking they are getting "real" image stabilization by advertising "stabilization" in their ads. But I still like the S6000fd anyway ....

    Here's a link to a Fuji S6000 (no fd) on amazon that has the misleading "picture stabilization" in the ad. It is using what I call "fake" stabilization.

    EDIT: Looks like the link I posted is broken. So here is what the amazon ad for the S6000 says:
    "Fujifilm Finepix S6000 6.3MP Digital Camera with 10.7x Wide-Angle Optical Zoom with Picture Stabilization"

    Mike S.
    Last edited by Mike S.; 07-06-2007 at 04:55 AM.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    So Calif
    Posts
    3,226
    Beach Camera has the Pentax K100D with kit lens (not the greatest, but a start) for $419 after rebate. The decent Pentax 50-200 is about $189 after rebate (though Beach does not carry that one).

    http://www.beachcamera.com/shop/prod...ku=PKK100D1855

    If you are out of the USA then I don't think you get rebates, but its still a decent setup, and allows some $$$ for batteries, bag, etc.
    Most other setups mentioned here are over your specified budget - but that is always the case :-(

    The only thing the K100D is bad at is a machine-gun burst mode of more than say 5 jpgs or 3 RAW shots in a row.
    Pentax K20D/K5/15/21/40/70/10-17/12-24, Sigma 17-70 2.8-4.5/150-500, Tamron 90 Macro/70-200 2.8, Canon SX20 IS/Elph 500HS
    (formerly Pentax 50 1.4/50-200/55-300/K100D, Sigma 18-50 2.8/70-300 APO, Tamron 28-75, Viv 800, Tele-Tokina 800, Canon S3 IS, Samsung L210)
    http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q78/KylePix/

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