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  1. #11
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    Dec 2006
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    God's Country - Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldrain View Post
    Why does it make you laugh? You really think the two cameras perform the same colour wise? A bit sad one can not give one's honest opinion, always being made out a "fan boy".

    Always by the same people I might add.

    I just happen to think that an 400D or 30D would be more towards what Geoff is looking for, for his photography. Why? Because I happen to be of the opinion that Canon DSLRs of late are more accurate colour wise, and also a lot more consistent from model to model.

    That is something you can not say about Nikon, where the D70 and D70s are blue-ish, the D200 to me a bit artificial at tiems, especially in nature greens, the D80 very in your face saturated, the D50 again different.

    I really am allowed to say this, and I may even be right.
    i'm not going to get into this ridiculous nikon/ canon argument with you again because it is juvenille and all you seem to say and infer in just about every post you make.

    i think you may be schitzophrenic. some days you are helpful, objective and willing to have a laugh with people. the next day you are a humourless, churlish ass. you either need to acquire some better social skills or you have some serious growing up to do.

    either way, it is regretful we can't seem to get along for any length of time cos i have apreciated your help.
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
    flickr

  2. #12
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    Smile

    Woah guys!
    Please don't fall out on account of me and my red problem!
    I would just like to say I like both brands of camera and yes cameras do vary a bit in presentation - but also have adjustment to suit personal taste. My red problem is something I have seen on most brands of camera - I just want to find a way around it, easily, with my current latest camera
    Geoff Chandler. UK/England/Surrey
    NIKON D90 / D80. Nikon 16 - 85 VR, Tamron 28-200,
    Sigma 70-300APO, Tokina 100 AT-X Pro D.
    SB600 flash. Panasonic DMC-TZ25

    http://geof777.multiply.com

  3. #13
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    I skipped a couple of photo stages.
    First pic was a basic attempt using daylight WB and -1ev
    it's still redy yellow and I guess a manual WB would be better
    But I suspect the red would still be a bit off.
    I changed the colours in curves until the flower was right - which is a dark shade - almost metalic, (sort of). But the grass was way off!
    So I redid it and then copied the flower onto it - maybe still a tad over on the grass.
    The orig would be better in a way with manual WB and another bit more under exposure
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Geoff Chandler. UK/England/Surrey
    NIKON D90 / D80. Nikon 16 - 85 VR, Tamron 28-200,
    Sigma 70-300APO, Tokina 100 AT-X Pro D.
    SB600 flash. Panasonic DMC-TZ25

    http://geof777.multiply.com

  4. #14
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    Jan 2005
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    Last years Red Gerbera and the A-200
    First shot was Auto WB (which worked on the A-200) with +1blue
    -1ev
    Second shot was similar - but with a little PP
    (But
    With the D80 I have to get rid of that yellowy red hue somehow)
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Geoff Chandler. UK/England/Surrey
    NIKON D90 / D80. Nikon 16 - 85 VR, Tamron 28-200,
    Sigma 70-300APO, Tokina 100 AT-X Pro D.
    SB600 flash. Panasonic DMC-TZ25

    http://geof777.multiply.com

  5. #15
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    very intersting experiment geoff. i tried a few things with both the sigma and the tamron and in various colour modes. i never knew lens' had much to do with colour reproduction and now i understand when people say that a lens is "contrasty". i have neevr noticed or really understood this before i tried this out. mind you, its difficult to really understand it cos the different focal lengths must have an impact so this is far from an ideal experiment !

    the tammie at first seemed a little too saturated but when using colour mode 1a i got more detail in the image, (much cooler), and less saturation in the reds which gave it more defintion to petals etc.

    the difference in the red reproduction between colour mode 1a and colour mode III or IIIa is HUGE !! this was important for me to understand actually cos i shoot lots of macro in colour mode III cos i like the intense saturation but obviously for deep reds it doesn;t work !
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Rooz; 05-19-2007 at 05:47 AM.
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
    flickr

  6. #16
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    Thumbs up

    Rooz - I am very interested to see/hear your findings and experiments
    Not just with the reds but, as coldrain mentioned, the purples and dark blues.
    As for colourspace - I did initially do an experiment with the same shot in each colourspace and it seems the flatest least over saturated is the adobe RGB (type11??) tyoe 1 is good for general use and portraits - type 111 was handy in Iceland, where it was cold and grey, as it where it just gave a bit of a lift to the colours enough to help it without exagerating. I don't turn up the contrast or vividness under normal conditions so this worked well.
    I may resort to colourspace 2/adobe with reduce saturation and plus on the blue for the close up of reds and purples in future - but with a whole scene I think things will be OK.
    Feel free to e-mail me if you want to say more than you wish to post here

    Geoff
    Geoff Chandler. UK/England/Surrey
    NIKON D90 / D80. Nikon 16 - 85 VR, Tamron 28-200,
    Sigma 70-300APO, Tokina 100 AT-X Pro D.
    SB600 flash. Panasonic DMC-TZ25

    http://geof777.multiply.com

  7. #17
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    no, i have no prob sharing them here.

    i don't think i have had a blue macro so not sure about blue. purples i only have issues with the very lighter shades. all the darker shades i can get pretty right.

    the first pic is a direct comparison of IIIa and Ia colour modes on roughly a 70% crop. the detail is clear in Ia, the saturation of IIIa which is blowing out the reds is much more visible.

    the second pic is intersting. its with IIIa but i adjusted the colour of the raw image in-camera all the way to the left of the colour matrix, (blues), and it seemed to correct the colour cast well. have never used this method before so i was unsure of what result i would get but it is pretty darn good !

    the third pic is a comparison of what auto levels does in nx compared to cs2. i found that auto levels in nx corrected the sigmas blown out shots very differently than cs2. nothin else but auto levels used. the cs2 adjustment is almost non existstent and does not remove that red saturation, the nx one is much cooler and removes it completey. i thought a bit more work and it would be spot on. (who said software makes no difference ??)

    the last one out of the sigma in colour mode I and it is spot on imo. it is very strange that this one is so right where the rest of the sigma shots were really ordinary. i can only think that the cam metered much better cos of the light background behind and between the flowers.

    so what does all that mean ? well, for one thing i can get much more consistent and reliable results from the tamron as opposed to the sigma. in fact straight out of the cam in most tamron shots i get the result i want. its an unfair comparison of course cos the tammie is a macro lens whreas the sigma is a pseudo macro lens. BUT it did peak my interest that the colour rendition could be so different. it is not something so noticeable with regular shots but with macro of course everything is magnified so it becomes obvious.

    as ever, WB is critical. the variations in macros with WB is always significant but with the reds it seems even more pronounced.
    Attached Images Attached Images     
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
    flickr

  8. #18
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    Really interesting comparions Rooz
    I am at work this weekend - so not much chance to experiment - but
    have you tried out Type 2 AdobeRGB???
    Also - CS2 is Adobe photoshop - but what is NX
    I have Seriof Photo plus (8)
    also a Minolta Dimage program which is good for quick fixes and keeps the exif data, ulike the Serif - but the serif is a bit more flexable
    I have a couple of others that I occasionally use
    Basically - it looks like a turn towards the blue helps it out with macro reds
    but don't use type 3
    Geoff Chandler. UK/England/Surrey
    NIKON D90 / D80. Nikon 16 - 85 VR, Tamron 28-200,
    Sigma 70-300APO, Tokina 100 AT-X Pro D.
    SB600 flash. Panasonic DMC-TZ25

    http://geof777.multiply.com

  9. #19
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    Vancouver, BC
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    Geoff, the nx that Rooz is referring to is Capture NX, Nikon's RAW conversion software.

    I know you said that you don't have conversion software and that you don't have the time, but I don't think that shooting and processing in RAW could possibly be any more difficult than what you're trying to do now, in-camera and in Photoshop, to correct your reds. I'm pretty feeble in my image post-processing abilities but I've been able to get more accurate reds by shooting in RAW and adjusting in Bibble (my RAW converter of choice) than by shooting in JPG and adjusting in Paint Shop Pro. I find it just as easy if not easier, and no more time consuming. I really think you should give it a chance.

    Stephanie
    My Nikon D80 gallery
    My Fujifilm FinePix F30 and F10 galleries

    SLR stuff: Nikon D80 | Nikon F80 | Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G ED-IF AF-S DX Zoom | Nikkor AF 24mm f/2.8D | Nikkor AF 35mm f/2D | Nikkor AF 50mm f/1.8 | Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6 EX DC HSM | Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di LD Aspherical (IF) | Tamron SP AF 24-135mm f/3.5-5.6 AD Aspherical (IF) | Nikon SB-600 Speedlight

    P&S stuff: Fujifilm FinePix F30 | Fujifilm FinePix F10

    Accessories: Slik Sprint Pro GM tripod

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjseto View Post
    Geoff, the nx that Rooz is referring to is Capture NX, Nikon's RAW conversion software.

    I know you said that you don't have conversion software and that you don't have the time, but I don't think that shooting and processing in RAW could possibly be any more difficult than what you're trying to do now, in-camera and in Photoshop, to correct your reds. I'm pretty feeble in my image post-processing abilities but I've been able to get more accurate reds by shooting in RAW and adjusting in Bibble (my RAW converter of choice) than by shooting in JPG and adjusting in Paint Shop Pro. I find it just as easy if not easier, and no more time consuming. I really think you should give it a chance.

    Stephanie
    Stephanie - thanks for the kind thoughts - I see what you're saying.
    Would it not be the case, however, that I would have to convert every photo I want to keep. Forgive me if I have this completely wrong - as you know i have no experience of RAW.

    But, for example, take my recent Iceland holiday photos: -
    I took around 330 - 340 ish shots.
    I deleted somewhere around 50 or 60. but created around 6 or 8 extras (panoramas, crops etc).
    I probably tweaked a further 20 shots - so, aside from the deleting I will have messed with maybe 30 shots maximum If you count that before the deleted pix it's about 11%, or after it's around 9%
    So rounding it off - I would edit about a tenth of my photos.
    Surely I would have to open and convert/tweak many more if I shot in RAW??
    PLUS - the extra loss of space and speed on the camera
    I am happy with JPG at middle quality - reserving top quality (just a flick of a button) for those special shots - (which actually didn't occur at all on my last holiday) -
    Part of my reasoning for a DSLR was to make life a bit easier and more harmonious - not less. The faster focusing and more accurate exposures etc are supposed to make life better for me as far as photos are concerned.
    I think I am working towards that - I managed it to a degree with both point ans Shoots - If I can't succeed, then the D80 goes! I really don't believe that line of events will happen however as I am sure that all those settings are in there for use and for a reason.
    I enjoy editing, don't get me wrong, but I also have a busy life besides my hobbies.
    If I can manage on 10% editing then I am happy that I got 90% good straight off the camera - and I did in Iceland!
    This Red issue was a problem that I resolved on my A-200 and I am sure once I find a formula it will be possible with the D80. Almost as simple as exposure compensation...?
    I am a family guy and I have a job and friends - If I were single I would give it more time and yes - I guess I would be shooting in RAW.
    I am contemplating another Point and Shoot for my wife for holidays so that sometimes when we go out I will leave the D80 behind and she can just tuck a little camera in her pocket. Something compact as I have no such camera myself (My daughter has though!).
    Does all this make sense - or am I doing this subject to death??
    Geoff Chandler. UK/England/Surrey
    NIKON D90 / D80. Nikon 16 - 85 VR, Tamron 28-200,
    Sigma 70-300APO, Tokina 100 AT-X Pro D.
    SB600 flash. Panasonic DMC-TZ25

    http://geof777.multiply.com

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