What can happen in two hours, when no one knows?
A gut reaction says "Fight fire with fire!" Unfortunately, that is a little hard to do when you are surrounded by students. Even if you had a "jammy" with you, the chances if you did get lucky enough to "pop" the S.O.B.. you'd be the "next target" the ignorant cops would most likely fire on.
Be honest with yourself, in that kind of melee, where no one knows what the heck is going on ... the confusion is at an overwhelming level ... and there you are, sporting a rod! You can almost feel the SWAT laser sight on your shirt or the back of your head?
The only real method of protection, at this point, the liberals and other anti-gun proponents will offer is to surrender your rights to freedom and enjoy the "locked-down" campus with metal detection and other types of scanners at the doors.
And let's face the facts ... if someone is really going to use one of these weapons in the school, for this specific purpose ... they are probably going to smash some obscure window, toss the weapon(S) inside, with all the ammo and pick it all up later on, AFTER they have successfully passed through the metal detection and scanner systems ... completely undetected. I mean, who would chance getting caught bullying their way in?
So, are you safe inside your "little fortress" with a guard and technology? Get a camera and let's find out.
Sane people don't shoot other people for fun. There is something else wrong here. Maybe it is societal, maybe it is something in the water. Who knows? But, you should have the right to protect yourself, your family and have a "safe place" to learn how to live. There are enemies among us ... and it's clear to see, they can have ernomous and deadly impact. Can we mitigate the impact?
Get a spine! Attack your attacker. If you're going down, take the S.O.B. with ya. He really can only shoot you once, maybe twice. Don't let him kill everyone in the room, hoping he'll run out of bullets when ... the business-end is pointed at you. Today's villian was reloading ... and that's YOUR time to "kill or be killed." This is no video game ... when it's game over, everyone loses.
Sorry ... it is upsetting and very "pointed" in ways we had hoped we would never see. Well, welcome to reality. The monsters are out there .. and they want in to cause murder and mayhem.
How many additional VT students are now traumatized to going to school? Is this going to improve their studies? The direct victims are one thing and very tangible ... but the indirect victims ... how do you measure and quantify that? They now feel powerless and betrayed because the security members and administration of their school let them down. I suggest that the entire staff, who knew about this, be fired with malice for malfeasance. It is wholly inexcusable, on their part, because this is exactly what they were hired to do ... protect the student body and the campus. These poor students and teaching staff were unalerted to "some dangerous nut" running around the campus with a weapon, having already killed some folks. This wasn't a bomb scare ... they were really dead. Tangible proof for an alert, I'd say. Worthy of "passing the word."
I guess the question really is ... "What have we learned, today?" Please, don't let these poor victims go without, at least, having that answered.
- BFA, Digital Photography
A Photographer Is Forever
Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.
Amen, and amen, Don. It's sad that the consequence of living in one of the safest countries in the world has to be a total disconnect when it comes to life-threatening danger for most of us. For all the violent entertainment that goes down our mental gullets, we're still paralyzed in a situation like this.
I wonder as to who it was who first thought to get up and keep the door shut when the shooter left the building and then tried to return inside. He or she knew at least a little of what to do.
As for carrying a weapon, I feel that it's a choice which puts one in another place in society. Those who don't carry want to distance themselves from deadly force (not that it works when the enemy lands them in their sights); those who carry are acknowledging the possibilities, and therefore a situation like this should be their responsibility. I think we ought to respect a non-carrier's desire to be safe by opening ourselves up, if we carry, to the danger even of police bullets. If we die wrongly, well, we were in another ball park than they were, and we accepted the possibilities.
Which is not to say that it works every time. There is no answer for things like this, except a moral culture which takes responsibility for what goes into its mind, and for those who might be ill (as this kind of killer has to be... don't they? Sadly, I think the answer to that is not necessarily).
Now I'm just rambling. I'll shut up.
Originally Posted by DonSchap
Nikon D40 + kit lens
Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 D AF(...or not)
I fail to see what possible reason anyone has to carry a gun, granted America has gone through civil war and that was probably the start of "carrying"
But really in a modern society where we dont live off the land or live in war ravaged places, really there is no reason. Farmers yes, I can see a reason
Definately automatic weapons should be outlawed
as you know forno, thats the condition we are in here. i always thought it a knee jerk reaction and political popularism after the Port Arthur massacre to ban auto weapons, but some years down the track i do think it was the right thing to do. on my last pass through Iraq i left my beloved 45 to a needy friend rather than send it too the scrap yard.
i have messed with weapons all my life and enjoyed my time with them, but its like another world now, and the thought of some heavily armed whacko is getting harder to take.
For the US, there is no going back, they will never be able to clear up the amount of available weapons, and i suspect some will never surrender them. They will always suffer these terrible events and other indignities. Where just getting stopped by police is a lesson on dealing with armed offenders.
Pentax 110 auto SLR
Sure, I grew up in South Africa and weapons of all sorts were allowed and then ofcourse people that shouldnt have them get there hands on them somehow and it ends badly every time
We are lucky in Australia that we dont have that
But the fact is that we don't live in a "modern society". If we did, this kind of thing wouldn't happen, would it?
Society is just a name, for a 'construct' that's not based on rules, just norms. And norms aren't something you can count on every time.
As for carrying, I fail to understand how the American civil war started it... the U.S. has always been an armed country; that's how we were able to separate from Britain in the first place. And we're still a nation of hunters, farmers, et cetera - the population's huge, most of the junk goes on in the large cities, where people are more steeped in "culture"(ha!) and less in the reality of things, but there's a big world outside of those ghettos. And sadly they like to overflow into that world.
(who is a farmer, by the way)
Nikon D40 + kit lens
Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 D AF(...or not)
My history of America may well be wrong
But what I am getting at is unless you need a gun for things like hunting (not recreational hunting) and farming (killing livestock) then there is no need for anyone to carry a gun.
I wish that were the case. But it isn't. People rob, and rape, and kill.
A weapon is first and foremost a deterrent; usually all that's needed is for the criminal to get a glimpse of a six-iron, and he'll do a 180. That's its use under most domestic threats. But then there are sick, demented people like this one, hell-bent on hurting others. In that rare but inexorable situation, the gun is for killing someone.
If I walk around with a firearm for whatever period of my life I have the desire to do so, and never take it out other than for target practice, that would be awesome. A gun is not a being, not something dark and evil at heart. It's an object, and tucked under the belt of a responsible and moral person it might as well be just a piece of the belt, unless there's an occasion for its use.
Nikon D40 + kit lens
Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 D AF(...or not)
Wow. What a thread. It is so interesting to hear so many different views. I live in Montreal, Canada. Many people perceive Canada as a far less violent nation than the US and in many ways it is as a general rule I suppose. Like everything, there are times and places of exception to rules. Since 1989 there have been three school massacres in my city that have touched me personally. I won’t get into details but you can Google them if you like. Marc Lepine – 1989 (female family members were in the school at the time), Valerie Fabrikant- 1992 (I was a student at the University at the time) and Kimveer Gill – 2006 (My former college and the school where I take photography lessons to this day. My teacher and close friend was in the school and I was on the way there at the time of the shootings).
I know something first hand of the devastation that this type of event can cause to a community and I feel much pain for those affected by what happened in Virginia. Reading some of the posts in this thread, it’s clear to see that many are upset. I’ve read reactions that would seem to encourage the carrying of arms and urging completely unqualified people to get involved in a situation of crisis. I don’t want to comment on that directly but I’ll say the following.
My handle ‘nqjudo’ has much to do with the fact that for 27 years of my life I was completely dedicated to the sport of judo. I had the honor of making many National teams, competed in about 20 countries around the world and coached a great deal as well. The differences in athetes from one region to another were astounding at times but they usually boiled down to two types. Internationally successful judoka usually start the sport at around six but there were those who started much older and with pure talent, were able to make it onto the International scene. Their judo, though technically proficient lacked control most of the time, to say nothing of their self control. These were the guys most likely to leave their opponents with a broken joint or worse. Then there were the guys who started judo very young and developed their skills slowly. Along with great skill, they learned great control and a better understanding of what judo really is. Injuries were extremely rare with these guys. There is also an interesting case made for this in the difference between ‘eastern’ and ‘western’ judo but this post is already too long to get into that.
So all this is to say what, really? Well, it’s to make the point that simply giving someone a weapon or recognizing that they have an inherent skill for using it does not mean that they have obtained the wisdom required to wield it. That doesn't always come after instruction, boot camp, or even half a lifetime. What we need in society is not more knee jerk reactions that will create more violence. We have to properly educate our children (and maybe ourselves in the process) to develop a more peaceful and tolerant society than we live in at the moment. This is going to take time and lots of resources. The whole system has to be torn down and rebuilt. So where are the resources going to come from? I think if we stopped fighting the wars abroad and turned our attention to the one within we’d be making a damned good start.
Couldnt agree more
Originally Posted by nqjudo