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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by rawpaw18 View Post
    My trial version is set to expire in two days, bummer. Anybody want to spot me $150.
    Try the beta 4 version of Adobe Lightroom.
    At least that will not expire until Feb 2007!

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
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    I spent a little more time in Bibble last night and was pretty impressed. I am not sure if Capture allows you to queue work, edit multiple images in a batch, output in batch, print in batch, etc. It also has a feature very similar to D-lighting. You can change (with a slider) the highlights - to pull more detail from what appears overblown skies for instance, as well as change (again with a slider) "fill light" to brighten shadows without affecting highlights. Of course white balance is very easy (with a dropper on a white area) to fix. There is good noise reduction, and quite a few other important post features that normally cannot be done during raw edits. I am very impressed.

    I do like the control points idea though, and that is the one thing that made me consider NX. I am not sure if the NX batch processing is as adaptable, and intuitive as Bibble's. I guess I will have to download it and try it.

    Does anyone know of any conflicts with installing multiple raw editing apps? I know in video editing I would run into application conflicts from time to time. IOW if I have a licensed Bibble Pro installed, and install NX has anyone had conflicts doing this?

    If anyone is curious about the Bibble workflow they have some good videos available for free download... http://www.bibblelabs.com/learn/index.html

    Thanks
    Nikon D70s
    Nikkor 50mm 1.8D (If you don't have it you need it)
    Nikkor 18-200mm VR II
    SB-600
    Bogen/Manfrotto Tripods/Heads
    NAS (D300, Nikkor 80-200mm (or 70-200mm)f/2.8, Tamron 90mm Macro)

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
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    6,931
    Firstly there is no problems with installing various RAW conversion programs they are only software and it would be like not being able to have multiple games or multiple word processors if you were unable to run several.
    At the moment I have RSP2006, Adobe Lightroom beta 4, Nikon View / Edit and Photoshop CS2 loaded that all have the ability to do RAW editing without any problems. I have actually had multiple RAW programs running at the same time without a problem. I am not using a state of the art multi terabyte PC either.

    I have tried a couple of trial versions of Bibble in the past. I think that the most recent was 4.7. I quite like the results but I do not like the programs workflow (or lack thereof), the fact it seems to be very buggy and prone to locking up and that it is dreadfully slow. I know slow is a relative term but I'm saying slow compared to similar programs running on the same PC. Overall I have never had enough confidence to actually fork out cash for the program even though as I said I quite like it's results.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    1,148
    I can agree that the workflow is not obvious, and have read that when browsing a folder of hundreds of raw images, that the thumbnail refresh is slow (depending on settings), but what I have seen so far it has been faster than working with other non-raw editors. And 3rd party reviews have given it accolades on speed. It also appears that as a company BibbleLabs really puts effort into getting new features, and fixes out as soon as possible. They also are providing free upgrade to their next major version (5) if you have bought 4.9

    That said, I have watched some of the training videos and the workflow is starting to make sense to me. One of the things that I really like, when I was researching options was the amount of tweaks you can make while still in a raw workflow. This enables you to make the most of your changes before you convert to final image whether Tiff or jpg or other. It is real easy to make these non-destructive changes, and turn them on or off several times to A-B compare how changes affect different portions of your image.

    I was thinking that I wanted the control points (or 'U' points?) in the Capture NX, but so far, the fill lighting, Highlight Recovery, and exposure combinations have been able to fix some pretty poor shots (grossly over and under exposed) that I took to test it with. Bibble claims to be the only raw editor with algorithms that don't just boost or cut the gamma in blow-outs, but rather attempts (quite successfully IMO) to generate color information in those pixels as well.

    Next I will be playing with some of the cloning, repair - type tools. I even played around a little with lens distortion repair, but still haven't taken a shot of a brick wall yet to see how well it will do with the complex distortions on the 18-200VR. So I'll be looking at that as well.

    Thanks for the answer on the multiple installs. Honestly, I have seen video editing software behave badly when different apps were installed on one machine. Of course, there is a lot more involved with video editing. monitor overlays, audio codecs, video codecs, etc.

    This is probably a great thread to discuss the subtle or obvious differences in raw processors, so I hope that others will contribute their experiences with apps. I know that I recently did a lot of research on the subject, but havent installed a bunch of different apps (I like to keep the registry as clean as possible)
    Nikon D70s
    Nikkor 50mm 1.8D (If you don't have it you need it)
    Nikkor 18-200mm VR II
    SB-600
    Bogen/Manfrotto Tripods/Heads
    NAS (D300, Nikkor 80-200mm (or 70-200mm)f/2.8, Tamron 90mm Macro)

  5. #15
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    Aug 2005
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    6,931
    Quote Originally Posted by tcadwall View Post
    Thanks for the answer on the multiple installs. Honestly, I have seen video editing software behave badly when different apps were installed on one machine. Of course, there is a lot more involved with video editing. monitor overlays, audio codecs, video codecs, etc.
    I'm not sure what level of video processing you have used but if you are using consumer level stuff like Pinnacle in my experience many of them are terrible in the way they work. Many seem to have extremely badly written code that does horrible things in regard to memory leaks and resource allocation.
    Pinnacle have even released "updates" in the past that simply do not work and they have acknowledged as much.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    1,148
    Yes, I like the Pinnacle lines. I have done testing for them for several applications. I mostly use Liquid and it is pretty stable. I am of the opinion that their consumer line (Studio products) ofter a heck of a lot for the money. And while I did see issues with some resource problems, more often than not, when people have trouble, and are willing to work through it, there is a compatibility or overheating problem at the root. It is very processor intensive.

    However, Video editing is a different bear altogether than editing stills. There is a lot more involved with hardware rendering, machine specs, codecs, etc. There is just a lot more going on in the software. Heck right now if you are trying to do HD editing, and you want to do more than a couple of filters, effects, etc. Then you just about need to have a 512MB video card as well as dual xeons, Gigs of ram, etc. And then hope that your machine doesn't overheat while it is rendering. Any more than that and you better have a lot of patience. I am a software developer by trade, and do understand the way software is 'supposed' to work and not affect other software on a machine, but I'll stop here as I don't really want to take this too far off topic.

    Mostly I am just interested in why people use the RAW 'converters' that they do. I place emphasis, because I think that is more of a traditional term. Really there is now a rather large number of edits that can be made in RAW post that IMO can replace a lot of edits that traditionally would be done AFTER conversion. It really can move quite a few steps of post to an earlier point in your post workflow (or maybe really just move the conversion step to a later point in your workflow). It seems that more and more edits that repair or enhance a photo could (should?) be done before conversion. Leaving mostly the creative work (when necessary) for your Photoshop or PSP or whatever you use for converted files.

    K1W1 which 'converters' do you use for what work? Do you find yourself using some as 'specialty' apps? or do you have them all installed just to test them? What are your opinions on some of the key features from each?

    Thanks
    Nikon D70s
    Nikkor 50mm 1.8D (If you don't have it you need it)
    Nikkor 18-200mm VR II
    SB-600
    Bogen/Manfrotto Tripods/Heads
    NAS (D300, Nikkor 80-200mm (or 70-200mm)f/2.8, Tamron 90mm Macro)

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
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    6,931
    Quote Originally Posted by tcadwall View Post
    K1W1 which 'converters' do you use for what work? Do you find yourself using some as 'specialty' apps? or do you have them all installed just to test them? What are your opinions on some of the key features from each?

    Thanks
    Most of the photos that I take are sports photos of my (youngish) children and their teams. I can quite easily take 300 photos on a Saturday morning over two games.
    In that respect ease of conversion and speed are two criteria that are as important as anything else. My RAW converter of choice for most apps has been RAW Shooter Premium it's just so quick and easy, particularly in cropping and rotating which are two areas that some of the other converters are fiddly with. Having said that though there are times when RSP just does not get the colours right. It seems to have problems (to me at least) with lots of green and my sons Soccer games were quite often played this year on a field with lots of intense green foliage in the background. In those cases I usually resort to plain old Nikon View / Edit which in terms of colour accuracy seems as good as anything.
    Now that RSP is effectively dead I'm playing with the beta of Lightroom which has many of the RSP features in it. I think Lightroom will be a very good app when it's released and as a RSP user I will at least get version 1.0 free.
    If I take a photo I really like (something other than kids sports) I have at times used several different converters to see what gives the best results.
    As I said I've tried Bibble a couple of times but find it frustrating.
    I did download and try the Capture NX trial and quite liked that but again it's a bit buggy (I think the Version 1 should really have been released as a public beta) and it's actually not available for sale yet in Australia anyway.
    Early next year when I upgrade these PC's for Vista I will settle on a final (well final for 6 months anyway) solution. I suspect the choice will be between Capture NX (if there have been some further updates) and Lightroom although I will still have ACR / CS2 anyway.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    439
    I downloaded the Lightroom beta for Windows and man does it work really well. I love how it has all your workflow categories up in the top right corner and once you're done with one you move to the next and pretty soon you're printing and making actual slide shows for the web in either HTML or Flash. Does anyone know or have heard a rumor on how much Lightroom will cost when it is released? I could see myself making this software very useful. It just seems really professional and very well laid out. Another cool feature is that you can "Turn out the Lights" to see your image only which is a good way to judge how it will look when matted or framed.
    Nikon D300
    Nikkor AF-S 17-55mm f/2.8
    Nikkor 80-200 f/2.8 AF-D (70-200mm f/2.8 VR soon)
    Nikon SB600 (SB800 soon)
    Nikon MB-D10 grip
    Sekonic L-358
    Bogan/Manfrotto 055xprob tripod

    Canon AE-1 Program
    Canon FD 50mm f/1.8
    CPC 2x Teleconverter
    CPC Phase 2 CCT 80-200 f/4.5
    CPC Phase 2 CCT 28mm Macro f/2.8

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    6,931
    Quote Originally Posted by wh0128 View Post
    Does anyone know or have heard a rumor on how much Lightroom will cost when it is released?
    This is Adobe software. Think $ more $ and even more $.
    RSP was around US$100 from memory, Bibble is US$120 (?) and Capture NX is around US$150 (?) so you would have to think that Lightroom is going to be in the same sort of range as the other RAW editors. I can't see how Adobe could ask more than about US$150 for it and I would like to think it would be less than that anyway.

    P.S. For those who haven't caught up there was a version 4.1 beta update released late last week.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    439
    thanks for the info K1W1. I didn't know how much any of those other RAW edit software programs were so I had no clue. I think I will probably drop the money into this piece of software and just use Lightroom and CS2 for all of my work. CS2 for the more technical post-processing and Lightroom for fast post-processing and printing.

    K1W1, where can you get the 4.1 version, or do I have it since I downloaded it today (Saturday)?
    Nikon D300
    Nikkor AF-S 17-55mm f/2.8
    Nikkor 80-200 f/2.8 AF-D (70-200mm f/2.8 VR soon)
    Nikon SB600 (SB800 soon)
    Nikon MB-D10 grip
    Sekonic L-358
    Bogan/Manfrotto 055xprob tripod

    Canon AE-1 Program
    Canon FD 50mm f/1.8
    CPC 2x Teleconverter
    CPC Phase 2 CCT 80-200 f/4.5
    CPC Phase 2 CCT 28mm Macro f/2.8

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