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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Australian (currently visiting the USA)
    Posts
    52

    High ISO 1600x1200 shots from a FZ50 (standard ones too)

    Hi All,
    I've been watching with interest the Panasonic Saga, and was wondering what high ISO would do on the FZ50, if you set it to 2MP, or 1600 x 1200 mode,
    Actually I was wondering if it would look ok even at iso 100.

    I am mainly asking how the sampling goes at the lower resolution, if the processor processes the entire image and re-sizes it, uses pixel binning, or merely uses less of the actual pixels.

    I have seen some descussion about his but found no actual answers, so I was wondering if one of you FZ owners were able to post some out of the camera 2MP and 3MP photos at ISO 100, 400, and 800.
    (If possible at 2 or 3 different zoom lengths, without worrying about the extended zoom.

    Right now I have an old Minolta FZ1, it's a nice camera, (If you use ISO 50 or 100 it's great) though it's only 3MP

    But 3MP is probably all I need for most thing, it can still enlarge for what I need, (Hey the press here is only 11 x 17).

    But I was wondering about space, if I'm shooting for the web I would like to have a nice 2mp or 3mp shot.

    Thanks again

    Benjamin Turner

    You can have a look at some of the photos I've taken with a FZ1 at
    http://www.sxc.hu/gallery/Bethtt
    My wife started the account, and just put the pics I take up there.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Posts
    442
    Thanks Benjamin - I was wondering the exact same thing and asked in another thread... but didn't get much feedback (didn't word my question as well as you did). It makes sense to me that if the sensor 'groups' (bins) pixels together when shooting at lower resolutions, there will be less noise (b/c each 'pixel' is now effectively larger). Since few people actually need 10Mp (I certainly don't) and since this is already how some manufacturers handle high ISO shooting (lowering the resolution at high ISO in order to 'bin' the pixels), it may be the answer for the FZ50 (let's hope!).

    The real question (as you stated), is exactly how the camera handles lower resolutions. Pixel binning? In-camera resizing? Smaller area of the sensor (like when using extended zoom)? Etc...

    Can't wait to see the replies!
    Nikon D70 | 18-70 | 50/1.8 | 70-210
    Pentax Optio W20
    Film
    Nikon F100: 5 fps, weather-sealed, full frame 'sensor' and VR & AF-S compatibility

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    western pa
    Posts
    2,334
    While I do not have a FZ50 , with the FZ30 ,it just uses a smaller section out of the center of the sensor as you drop the size so in reality the pixels are the same size and spaced the same......so the noise is the same.
    .






    Gene
    http://grc225.zenfolio.com/
    http://imageevent.com/grc6
    one of these days I'll understand!

    Panasonic FZ20 & FZ30,FZ18
    D50 -- D80

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Australian (currently visiting the USA)
    Posts
    52

    Fz50 and 30 lower MP File Recording settings.

    Thanks for your reply,
    Though I find it puzzling,

    Shooting at 2MP on an 8MP CCD
    if it always only used a smaller section would be like always using extended optical zoom mode, yielding a smaller field of view,

    But I understand that even shooting at 2mp you can still take a wide angle shot, so it must be using some other method to get these shots,

    And since it has a manual zoom ring, I can't see it cropping the image (using less of the ccd), until the maximun zoom is reached, when the extended optical cuts in,

    otherwise it would have to do the extended optical first, then the optical zoom, I can't see how they could do this with a truly manual zoom ring.

    Just my thoughts.

    Oh, and for the second poster in this form, I saw your post,
    And that's what prompted me to start this thread, I have really wanted to know, but never before thought about asking.

    Ben

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    western pa
    Posts
    2,334
    If this link works it explains the EZ and it says something about still having a Wide Angle.
    http://panasonic.jp/support/global/c...ww/ans/ex.html

    Near the top ,click on this line.

    Detailed explanation of the Extra Optical Zoom (EZ)


    and then click on #2.
    .






    Gene
    http://grc225.zenfolio.com/
    http://imageevent.com/grc6
    one of these days I'll understand!

    Panasonic FZ20 & FZ30,FZ18
    D50 -- D80

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Australian (currently visiting the USA)
    Posts
    52

    Extended optical Zoom Disabled still shooting at 2MP

    Thanks for your reply,

    My Question is not regarding the Extended optical zoom thugh, My question is different, with the EXTENDED OPTICAL ZOOM DISABLED totally.

    If I set the camera to 2 megapixel or 3 megapixel,
    what quality are the resulting images,

    I would figure getting only a 2 megapixel image from a 10 megapixel camera, panasonic should be able to better deal with noise, having a larger sample area to work from.

    The other thing, if they use pixel binning, could they potentially increase dynamic range, by taking the readings across different pixels too, maybe not since the pixels are the same size,

    But I am figuring that it should at least have less noise, if extended optical zoom is disabled.

    Thoughts or samples anyone?

    Ben

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Australian (currently visiting the USA)
    Posts
    52

    Thanks for the information.

    Quote Originally Posted by genece
    If this link works it explains the EZ and it says something about still having a Wide Angle.
    http://panasonic.jp/support/global/c...ww/ans/ex.html

    Near the top ,click on this line.

    Detailed explanation of the Extra Optical Zoom (EZ)


    and then click on #2.
    Hi agian I just looked at that page again,
    On the basics section, after following the link it says the fz30 uses the full frame for wide angle shots, then shrinks the resulting image down to 3 megapixel,

    In my mind that would have to be better than shooting a full 8 meg image, as far as noise.

    My question is, since it has a manual zoom ring, it should use the full ccd till it hits extended optical zoom range, can anyone zerify that with photos taken at different lengths along the zoom range at ISO 800 without going into extended optical zoom?

    I think most of my shots would be taken at 3-5 megapixel, so this is sort or a clencher in getting this camera or not.

    I know they could make the processor use less power if it only took every third pixel across, to get the image, but I don't like that solution.

    Ben

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    western pa
    Posts
    2,334
    I am not sure I am following you or if I can explain this even if I am....but if you take 2 exact photos one at 3 mp and one at 8mp use the zoom to try and make the subject the same size in both photos (with my FZ30.) and look at them full size you will see similar noise in both photos ....

    Now if you could open these 2 photos on 2 monitors at the same time....and look at the 3mp one at full size(100%) and only magnify the 8mp one untill the subject is the same size as the 3mp one (that will be much less than 100%)....the noise will be less on the 8 mp one. Not sure its less but its less noticable.IMHO
    .






    Gene
    http://grc225.zenfolio.com/
    http://imageevent.com/grc6
    one of these days I'll understand!

    Panasonic FZ20 & FZ30,FZ18
    D50 -- D80

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,929
    Just curious, why would you waste the money on 10MP if you dont want to you use them? Sounds like the FZ30 would be better for you.
    Jason

    "A coward dies a thousand deaths, a soldier dies but once."-2Pac


    A bunch of Nikon stuff!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Australian (currently visiting the USA)
    Posts
    52

    Wink Wasting MOney on a FZ50 only to use at 3 Megapixel

    I guess that is a good question, here is my response.

    I currently own a Minolta Z1, I personally don't have a fz anything, not a fz30 for me.

    However, I like the features and the photos coming out in Jpeg form from the fz50 appeal to me, so do some of the new features, sure It will get to be used as a 10MP camera at some stage in it's life, but I really like the manual zoom ring, the manual focus ring, the AF assist light, and the sharp optics, the extended optical zoom is also a feature that I would make use of.

    But I want it to come up at least as good as my Z1 does are 3 megapixel,
    I tend to shoot a lot of photos, especially at weddings, and I would prefer not to have them take up heaps of space, as a 3 or 5mp shot is more than large enough to put on a projector presentation at the reception,

    shots like this would feel the difference a good lense makes.

    not to say that a nice 10MP image wouldn't be shot, but when you can't fit that many on a 1Gig card, and I don't want to be carrying around a 100 cards, and the reception is straight after the on-location photos, I need somthing good, straight out of the camera, with no PP editing possible given the time frame.

    So from what I see the Fz50 is a great camera for those purposes, my only concern is that it the 3MP photos look as good as if I shot them at 10 and shrunk them to 3mp in a batch process, the camera processor should be able to do that I figure, as it would be working on the RAW data and not a compressed JPG file.

    I hope this helps you understand my situation.

    Ben

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