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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    8,163
    Quote Originally Posted by te1221
    So basically if the ceiling has mirrors, i'm best off with direct flash and maybe the bounce card?

    If the walls are all mirrored I guess thats the time to bust out my 50 1.4 then
    If the ceiling is mirrored, I'd either use direct bare flash, or get one of those wierd softbox add-ons to at least have some diffusion.

    If the walls are mirrored but not the ceiling, use the Sto-fen or a catchlight card of some sort and hit the ceiling at 45 degrees for some bounce, and let the catchlight card throw some light forward. Watch your angles and you'll be fine...in other words always shoot at angles to a mirror so you dont catch your own reflection! The less cloning you need to do the better, in my opinion.

  2. #12
    the place i'm at has three walls in three seperate rooms that are mirrored and it can be troublesome. occasionally if i'm not careful the mirrors will cause overexposure, or harsh or uneven lighting. stray light from too wide a flash setting easily gets caught in the mirrors with some unwanted effets. if there are bevels or gaps or other materials between the mirrored surfaces these will likely cause shadows or unevenly lit lines to a appear on your subject, background, floor, etc. bouncing the flash into the mirror seems to make these shadows, lines and such even more pronounced. i don't have a softbox but it could be worth a try with direct flash.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    Ref, you've done it then.

    Interesting point. If there's breaks in the mirror, then it'll cause shadows. I'm also thinking that the extra light will reduce background shadows and cause more complete lighting, albiet still directly from the direction of the camera.

    CDI, when you say "be careful", the question is, "be careful to do what"? Direct flash will reduce the extra element somewhat by intensifying the main source and eliminating the possibility of accidentially having 2 direct sources.

    Your idea about a diffuser though seems the best bet. Entirely removing the directional qualities should improve the unpredictability, except for the gaps in the mirror.

    Then of course, there's the wall mirrors. Sounds like nightmare lighting.

    The OP's idea of cranking the ISO and using f1.4 ... give that one a try ahead of time. First off the 50 f1.4 can be soft at f1.4, and the DOF will be about 1/2 inch (or seem like).

    Last night I was doing a product shot where I only had room lighting. I tried using f1.4 and could not for the life of me get an in-focus shot. I finally ended up at f8 and I think 2 second shutter speed (hey, products don't move, why not). This was from about 15 feet away (big product).
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  4. #14
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    Jul 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vich
    CDI, when you say "be careful", the question is, "be careful to do what"? Direct flash will reduce the extra element somewhat by intensifying the main source and eliminating the possibility of accidentially having 2 direct sources.
    I've re-read my posts several times and can't for the life of me find where I said "be careful", let alone without qualifying it.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    476
    Thanks for all the help/advice guys. My last question,

    If you flashbounce off a wall that's not white, I know it creates a colored cast. Can you correct it with whitebalancing at all?
    Tim
    Canon 5D Mark II, 1D Mark II, Rebel XS
    50 F1.4, 85 F1.8, 100 2.8 Macro 70-200 F4L 580EX, 24-70 F2.8L

  6. #16
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    Jul 2005
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    8,163
    Quote Originally Posted by te1221
    Thanks for all the help/advice guys. My last question,

    If you flashbounce off a wall that's not white, I know it creates a colored cast. Can you correct it with whitebalancing at all?

    Yeah its easy if you shoot RAW. A little more of a PITA if you shoot JPEG.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    1,770
    Quote Originally Posted by cdi-buy.com
    I've re-read my posts several times and can't for the life of me find where I said "be careful", let alone without qualifying it.
    Brain fart I suppose (visual, standing in elevator, cheeks going pink, staring straight forward with "can't prove it was me" look on face).
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  8. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    1,770
    Quote Originally Posted by te1221
    Thanks for all the help/advice guys. My last question,

    If you flashbounce off a wall that's not white, I know it creates a colored cast. Can you correct it with whitebalancing at all?
    Best if you put a white paper (or better, 18% gray card) in a shot. That will make color balancing a cinch. Without that, it's dang near impossible.
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  9. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    476
    Quote Originally Posted by Vich
    Best if you put a white paper (or better, 18% gray card) in a shot. That will make color balancing a cinch. Without that, it's dang near impossible.
    I'd be shoting raw as my workflow.

    Tim
    Tim
    Canon 5D Mark II, 1D Mark II, Rebel XS
    50 F1.4, 85 F1.8, 100 2.8 Macro 70-200 F4L 580EX, 24-70 F2.8L

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    1,770
    Quote Originally Posted by te1221
    I'd be shoting raw as my workflow.

    Tim
    Yes. I'm sure you've tried CB with RAW. There's a color temp slider and a tint slider. Your monitor is likely not exact, nor your memory of exactly the correct color. Instead, the in camera WB meter will record the AWB setting that the RAW converter subsequently applies for your initial display (for example WB 4600 tint +3).

    The AWB does the best it can, but it can only take samplings and guess. You'll notice that it comes up with different guesses from shot to shot. If your subject is say, a pink building, it'll probably guess wrong.

    You could do what film does; don't do AWB, instead pre-set it to "daylight". WB is one of the great advantages of digital. WB is one of the great disadvantages of digital.

    If you have an 18% gray card in the shot, or something true white, you can use the WB dropper to click on that and watch the two sliders move. The entire photo will take on a slightly different color. This will eliminate any color casting in the light.

    You can then apply those slider settings to all other photos taken with exactly the same light.

    It becomes a little impossible when different color casts are in the same photo (or photos), common to band situations (colored lights). I think that's one reason we see so many B&W band photos.

    You can do all this with JPG too, but if you're using AWB, then you need a white reference point for every photo. You're using RAW so I'll not bore you with details and links.

    So;
    WB reference = very simple
    No WB reference = good luck but you'll never get it perfect.
    Last edited by Vich; 07-20-2006 at 11:01 AM.
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