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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    1,807
    Quote Originally Posted by michaelb
    Some really good food for thought here - I don't shoot many fast moving objects, at least I have not up to this point. I don't think I need the constant f4 and you make a good point about the TC liminting the range and it reduces the available light.
    i didn't think about it til i had to get back to 70mm in a hurry.
    juggling the lens + camera + TC + front and rear caps with two hands is no fun either, especially when rushing to get the shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by michaelb
    Perhaps I should go with the 70-300 for now...I can always sell it on FM in the future and get the 70-200 f4 instead
    one of the big advantages of a widely used system: huge used equipment market! good resale value too. i took a big hit selling the tamron 28-75 but only minimal losses selling the canon stuff. actually made $75 on one of my sales!

    Quote Originally Posted by michaelb
    But do I wait it out a little longer to see if Canon come out with a fix for the "portrait issue" or just deal with this potential limitation?
    if your local retailer doesn't over charge then testing samples yourself would be faster. i think pete might have more info on whether or not they are issuing fixes and such
    canon 17-40 L, 70-200 f2.8 L, 400 f5.6 L, 50 f1.4 & f1.8, 1.4x TC, sigma 15 f2.8 fisheye, flash 500 DG Super, kenko extension tubes

    note to self: don't participate in sad, silly threads unless you're looking for sad, silly responses.

    "anti-BS filter" (from andy): http://dcresource.com/forums/showpos...94&postcount=4

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,770
    I agree with Ref in that more light is needed for moving objects at tele, but not that IS does not good. Whether the objects move or not, camera shake is still evident at 200mm. A faster shutter will reduce the effect on your image but nullifying the shake in the first place is always better.

    If you loose 3/4 stop in light but "gain 3 stops" as related to camera shake, and your subjects are still, then I think you'll get better results with IS.

    Same goes for a moving object if your light at f5.0 is adequate for capturing the motion (like 1/125 for modest motion such as walking or a duck coasting over the water).

    I really (really) wonder about this smallish lens being able to match IQ, in all the respects of IQ, with the 70-200 f4.0. There's a quality about the f4.0 lens that we normally only see in primes, and the better primes at that.

    Oh, regarding the Portriat mode issue, one could just take the photo in landscape and crop. I've heard it's only an issue at long tele - is that true? If so, then it is fairly limited in scope.
    Gear List:
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  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    3,109

    a molehill...

    Here's an example of the portrait issue on the 70-300 IS - notice how the center is relatively sharp but the top and bottom of the image are a mess (shot was at 1/250th F8 280mm) (As Vich points out the problem is only noticeable above 200mm):
    http://photos.imageevent.com/24peter...d/IMG_1539.JPG

    Canon's Service Center in Irvine California tested the lens and acknowledged there was a problem with my lens and eventually many others, so it's real.

    Now here's a shot in landscape orientation to judge overall image quality (no sharpening applied in post) (1/640th F 6.3 300mm):
    http://photos.imageevent.com/24peter...s/IMG_9832.JPG
    (from this gallery: http://imageevent.com/24peter/birdbathparttres - all shots were taken with 70-300 IS)

    Here are a couple of galleries where I used the 70-300 IS extensively (outdoor shots): http://imageevent.com/24peter/lorenafinato
    http://imageevent.com/24peter/christinamitropoulou
    It's a tougher to see the portrait issue due to the nature of the photos (and subjects ) but it's there (check the EXIF data to find shots take above 200mm)

    Here shots #10-30 were all taken with the 70-200 F4 L. http://imageevent.com/24peter/stevedarmis Select an image and click on "original" under image size to see IQ. One of my favs (1/1600th F 4.5 200mm) http://photos.imageevent.com/24peter...s/IMG_7934.JPG
    Comparison with Canon 85 1.8 from same shoot (1/4000th F 2.5 85mm) (pardon the blown highlights - I'm still learning ) http://photos.imageevent.com/24peter...s/IMG_7816.JPG

    More 70-200 F4L shots - #30-44 For comparision, more 85 1.8 shots #45 - 55. http://imageevent.com/24peter/vanessaschafer
    Canon A720 IS, 40D w/ BG-E2N, 28 1.8, 50 1.4, Sigma 70 2.8 macro, 17-40 F4 L, 24-105 F4 L IS, 70-200 F4 L IS, 430 EX, Kenko 2X TC & Ext Tubes, AB strobes and more...
    View my photo galleries here: imageevent.com/24peter

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    594
    I have a Canon 75-300 thats about 10 yrs old, I got it new and it has REAL low miles!! I hope they have made great improvments to this lens... all the way open (300mm) on a tripod the IQ is crap, its like your looking through a screen door!!
    Canon 7D ~ Canon 20D
    70-200L f/2.8 | 100 f/2.8 | 50 f/1.4 | 10-22 f/3.5-4.5
    580EX | BG-E7 | BG-E2

    "Keyboard failure, press any key to continue.... "



  5. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    214

    birds on tree portrait pic

    From that picture I can't tell. Do you mean that the top of the tree is bent? It's sharp to me at least to me. Not pixel peeping of course.

    If anyone is not happy with the 70-300IS due to the portrait issue, hey sell it to me since it's such problematic lens.

    If 200mm is all you need for max reach then for sure get the F4L. And I agree juggling with a TC, lens and caps ain't fun if u're in a hurry. I guess you can always leave it on the whole time.

    EOS 30D | EOS 350D | EOS 88 | A95
    EF 50mm f1.8 MKI | EF-S 10-22 | EF 28-105 mkII | EF 17-40 F4L| EF 70-200 F4L
    LowePro AW 200
    Canon 550EX Speedlite
    RC-1 IR Remote
    Dynatran Carbon Fibre CF881 Ballhead Tripod
    Dynatran Carbon Fibre CF901 Monopod

    Veritas Images


    VI-Blog

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,770
    Quote Originally Posted by some guy
    From that picture I can't tell. Do you mean that the top of the tree is bent? It's sharp to me at least to me. Not pixel peeping of course.

    If anyone is not happy with the 70-300IS due to the portrait issue, hey sell it to me since it's such problematic lens.

    If 200mm is all you need for max reach then for sure get the F4L. And I agree juggling with a TC, lens and caps ain't fun if u're in a hurry. I guess you can always leave it on the whole time.
    Position the mouse on the lower right corner until an orange square appears, then click that. It will show the whole image. The birds and tree at the top and bottom are VERY blurry. It's such a big tree it could be a DOF issue, but it doesn't look to be. I would be very unhappy with these results - looks more like a P&S result! However; the landscape version is OK.

    Canon has a good reputation for fixing these issues and will likely just replace his whole lens when they get it figured out. Alternatively, they'll offer him full credit or refund. I don't think there's much risk as long as Canon admits to it.

    It sure looks like a cheap path to a usually-good 300mm IS lens.


    Pholosophy warning: However; I've noticed that I don't care too much about capturing every image possible. I just don't have the disk space and most people will never want to see it all, much less any of it - unless it's my kid in which case I can't take enough.

    So; I want to pursue it as an art. If I only got 5 captures but they all made me proud to view, and I could remember taking them 3 years later, I'll take that over getting 1000 OK captures.

    So, I'll take the 70-200 f4.0. For me, IS is only good if it's attached to a near-perfect lens. It will allow for that special capture the day my composition and photography skills arrive (hey BH, where's that shipment!!! )
    Last edited by Vich; 06-27-2006 at 11:48 AM.
    Gear List:
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  7. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    214
    Now I see it. Yeah it does look weird. So how much do you want for that piece of crap then.

    EOS 30D | EOS 350D | EOS 88 | A95
    EF 50mm f1.8 MKI | EF-S 10-22 | EF 28-105 mkII | EF 17-40 F4L| EF 70-200 F4L
    LowePro AW 200
    Canon 550EX Speedlite
    RC-1 IR Remote
    Dynatran Carbon Fibre CF881 Ballhead Tripod
    Dynatran Carbon Fibre CF901 Monopod

    Veritas Images


    VI-Blog

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    3,109
    Quote Originally Posted by some guy
    Now I see it. Yeah it does look weird. So how much do you want for that piece of crap then.
    $610 - that's what Canon paid me in refund at least.
    Canon A720 IS, 40D w/ BG-E2N, 28 1.8, 50 1.4, Sigma 70 2.8 macro, 17-40 F4 L, 24-105 F4 L IS, 70-200 F4 L IS, 430 EX, Kenko 2X TC & Ext Tubes, AB strobes and more...
    View my photo galleries here: imageevent.com/24peter

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,807
    i only looked at the top portion of the image before i closed it cuz it told me enough. some parts of the tree are very sharp but the birdies at top are smearing!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vich
    at tele, but not that IS does not good. Whether the objects move or not, camera shake is still evident at 200mm.
    true, IS is good to have even if it's just as an extra measure. i noticed at 640mm (after crop factor) that 1/640 isn't really enough to guarantee a shake free image. even when tripod mounted (not locked down) pictures taken at 1/640 looked fine on their own, but weren't as sharp as when shot at 1/800 (i was doing tests to familiarize myself with the lens and shooting limits). at 896mm even when tripod mounted and locked down there is blur if one is not careful. so given that people have differing levels of hand steadiness and other factors, yeah, i agree that IS is good to have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vich
    Oh, regarding the Portriat mode issue, one could just take the photo in landscape and crop. I've heard it's only an issue at long tele - is that true? If so, then it is fairly limited in scope.
    ouch, that's a big chunk of pixels and print size lost. shouldn't have to put up with that kind of stuff on a $600+ lens purchase.
    canon 17-40 L, 70-200 f2.8 L, 400 f5.6 L, 50 f1.4 & f1.8, 1.4x TC, sigma 15 f2.8 fisheye, flash 500 DG Super, kenko extension tubes

    note to self: don't participate in sad, silly threads unless you're looking for sad, silly responses.

    "anti-BS filter" (from andy): http://dcresource.com/forums/showpos...94&postcount=4

  10. #20
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The mitten state
    Posts
    964
    Wow, i am impressed with the IQ of 70-300. With the extra focal length and IS, i could definately see popping for one of those for some nice outdoors stuff. With the 30D's 1.6 crop, that is over a 1/4 mile reach! I have been considering the 70-200 f/4, but for outdoor stuff that is really a tough choice. The problem I have, is that it appears for lower light indoor shooting at some distance where a flash is not acceptable/allowed or appropriate there is only one true option...the 70-200 f/2.8 (IS if the budget allows - DAMN you Don). My 3 yr daughter just started gymnastics and I just don't feel a flash is a good idea...may not be allowed. Am i missing any options here?? (besides a prime)
    UPS drivers should wear red and white like Santa!!

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