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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    44
    You guys talk about jacking up the ISO to 800 or 1600. How do you guys print these pictures? The quality is absolutly horrible. I have a D70, not D50, and my noise is horrible. When I do indoor horse events, I shoot @ 800, 1200 and 1600. I try going as low as of an f-sop as I can (~3), and what tends to happen is A) my focus point is in focus, obviously the horse, jump, etc isn't cause of the shallow DOF. F/2.8 is great, allows more light in, but you obvously loose the fields of depth ... which is ok I guess if i'm on the side of the rider. B) I get horrible noise. I use noise ninja but the picture noise is so bad, about 70% of my shots can not be printed any bigger then 5x7. Some I can get up to 8x10 if the noise wasn't all that bad, but a majority is horrible noise and makes for printing large prints difficult

    Basically, Sigma 70-200 f/2.8, ISO 800 (I hate going higher cause noise is horrible), NO FLASH (Scares horses), and I come out with good 5x7 pictures to print. And even some pictures have to be tossed cause its to dark to do anything with. And if I go try getting a bit more in focus (Rider & Horse & Jump or Bar/Pole), I can forget it. Is there something I am not doing right? Or? Is there a better app you guys are using to clean up noise?

    Also you guys speak of the speed lights (SB600 and such). I use my built in speed light at times when I'm doing portrait shots and such. Big problem is the shadow it creates behind the objects. Its really bad. Will the SB600 take care of this problem?

    -- Kevin
    Last edited by eyelab; 02-17-2006 at 07:44 AM.
    Nikon D70

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Monterey Bay
    Posts
    6,029
    Quote Originally Posted by kanderson42
    try a 50 mm 1.8 for indoor sports. avoid the sigma 70-200 because you can get the non vr version nikon for only $30 more at bhphotovideo.com
    Can you post some examples of indoor sports shot with a 50mm f/1.8? That would be last lens that I would have picked for sports shooting, but I'm always willing to try something new. I would think maybe a 135 f/2 or 180 f/2.8...

    Why you would advise avoiding the latest Sigma EX 70-200 entry is a mystery to me, but again you can't go wrong with the Nikkor... however...

    I think you are talking about the Nikkor 80-200 f/2.8 ED AF-D, as I don't think that there is a current version of a 70-200 f/2.8 without VR. At B&H The USA version of the Nikkor 80-200 is $919, and import version is $849. It is a great lens, but very large and heavy. There is a demo version for $799 (not a bad deal). I have rented this lens several times , and it is a terrific lens.

    The latest rendition of the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 EX DG APO HSM lists for $724 at Sigma4Less, and has received very good reviews. I have only "played" with one in a camera store (unfortunately, it's not available to rent) and in my limited hands-on time, I was impressed. The AF is very fast, and accurate, and the results at f/2.8 were as good as the 80-200 (on my D70).

    Either lens would be an asset to your kit.
    D7000, D70, CP990, CP900, FE.
    50mm f/1.8, Sigma 18-125, Sigma 24-70 f/2.8, Nikon 18-105 VR, Nikon 55-200 VR, Nikon 43-86 f/3.5 AiS, Vivitar 28-90 F/2.8-3.5 Macro, Vivitar 75-205 F/3.8-4.8, SB800.
    Ha! See, I can change...


    http://d70fan.smugmug.com/

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Monterey Bay
    Posts
    6,029
    Quote Originally Posted by eyelab
    You guys talk about jacking up the ISO to 800 or 1600. How do you guys print these pictures? The quality is absolutly horrible. I have a D70, not D50, and my noise is horrible. When I do indoor horse events, I shoot @ 800, 1200 and 1600. I try going as low as of an f-sop as I can (~3), and what tends to happen is A) my focus point is in focus, obviously the horse, jump, etc isn't cause of the shallow DOF. F/2.8 is great, allows more light in, but you obvously loose the fields of depth ... which is ok I guess if i'm on the side of the rider. B) I get horrible noise. I use noise ninja but the picture noise is so bad, about 70% of my shots can not be printed any bigger then 5x7. Some I can get up to 8x10 if the noise wasn't all that bad, but a majority is horrible noise and makes for printing large prints difficult
    I assume that you have the noise profile for the D70 loaded in Noise Ninja.

    I have found that even with noise processing, at ISO1600, not every picture is a keeper, but it sounds like you are having a tough time getting any 8x10's. Can you post some shots? Better yet do you have a hosting site for full sized downloadable images?

    Basically, Sigma 70-200 f/2.8, ISO 800 (I hate going higher cause noise is horrible), NO FLASH (Scares horses), and I come out with good 5x7 pictures to print. And even some pictures have to be tossed cause its to dark to do anything with. And if I go try getting a bit more in focus (Rider & Horse & Jump or Bar/Pole), I can forget it. Is there something I am not doing right? Or? Is there a better app you guys are using to clean up noise?
    This is definately a tough subject to shoot, due to DOF requirements. I'm not an indoor sports shooter and I have no experience shooting equestrian events indoors, so hopefully someone else here can help on this.

    Maybe back off the telephoto a little, and hand crop later, would help achieve a better apparent DOF at larger apertures. Again I'm just guessing.

    Also you guys speak of the speed lights (SB600 and such). I use my built in speed light at times when I'm doing portrait shots and such. Big problem is the shadow it creates behind the objects. Its really bad. Will the SB600 take care of this problem?

    -- Kevin
    The on board flash is great for shadow fill and family snapshots, but not for good quality portraits, or group shots. The SB600/800 allows multiple angle bounce flash and iTTL metering to achieve more uniform light (greatly reducing shadows and flash overexposure). There are also several add-on diffusors available to soften the light even further.

    Since you already have the speedlight Commander control built into your D70 you can get by with an SB600, and even use it as a wireless remote. This allows you to place your (SB600/800) remote flash anywhere, as a remote and have it controlled by the camera.
    D7000, D70, CP990, CP900, FE.
    50mm f/1.8, Sigma 18-125, Sigma 24-70 f/2.8, Nikon 18-105 VR, Nikon 55-200 VR, Nikon 43-86 f/3.5 AiS, Vivitar 28-90 F/2.8-3.5 Macro, Vivitar 75-205 F/3.8-4.8, SB800.
    Ha! See, I can change...


    http://d70fan.smugmug.com/

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Northern Colorado, USA
    Posts
    2,225
    Quote Originally Posted by George Riehm
    A long, fast, lens and ISO1600. A 70-200 f/2.8 VR (~$1650) would be nice, but Sigma also makes a good one, without VR, for about $800.

    The $320 SB800 (has a little more power than the SB600) and may be starting to look pretty good by comparison.
    Of course, the VR does you absolutely no good for sports, unless you are shooting the losing bench (nice static, depressing view [pain of defeat stuff]).

    Speaking of that, remember ABC's Wide World of Sports...the downhill skier careening off the course on his back into the safety net...that's pain of defeat!

    Also, the SB800 does you no good when you go to take a photo and they say, please, no flash. Some places won't let you use it.

    Still, if you can afford both, that would be an great combo to have in your arsenal.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Monterey Bay
    Posts
    6,029
    Quote Originally Posted by erichlund
    Of course, the VR does you absolutely no good for sports, unless you are shooting the losing bench (nice static, depressing view [pain of defeat stuff]).

    Speaking of that, remember ABC's Wide World of Sports...the downhill skier careening off the course on his back into the safety net...that's pain of defeat!

    Also, the SB800 does you no good when you go to take a photo and they say, please, no flash. Some places won't let you use it.

    Still, if you can afford both, that would be an great combo to have in your arsenal.
    Yup, there is no easy answer. If it was easy we wouldn't have anything to talk about.

    As I remember that downhiller was seriously injured. Of course without the net he and several spectators would be dead.

    I should be getting in the new version of the Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 today so a small part of my shooting dilemas should be fixed. I'll let you know. The 70-200 f/2.8 is next. A little under $1100 for both at Sigma4Less.
    Last edited by D70FAN; 02-17-2006 at 12:30 PM.
    D7000, D70, CP990, CP900, FE.
    50mm f/1.8, Sigma 18-125, Sigma 24-70 f/2.8, Nikon 18-105 VR, Nikon 55-200 VR, Nikon 43-86 f/3.5 AiS, Vivitar 28-90 F/2.8-3.5 Macro, Vivitar 75-205 F/3.8-4.8, SB800.
    Ha! See, I can change...


    http://d70fan.smugmug.com/

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,929
    George, let me know your feelings on the Sigma 24-70 after you have played with it for awhile, I am considering this or the nikkor version for weddings. Thanks!

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    163
    [QUOTE=George Riehm]
    The latest rendition of the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 EX DG APO HSM lists for $724 at Sigma4Less, and has received very good reviews. I have only "played" with one in a camera store (unfortunately, it's not available to rent) and in my limited hands-on time, I was impressed. The AF is very fast, and accurate, and the results at f/2.8 were as good as the 80-200 (on my D70).

    George,

    I am entertaining the idea of purchasing a Sigma 70-200 f2.8 to go along with my present lens, I believe it would be the obvious choice for focal length. Could you tell me what APO HSM means and would all Sigma 70-200 f2.8 lenses have this feature? Thank you in advance for any help on this lens.
    Also, what did you mean by the results were as good as the 80-200?
    Bullitt

    Nikon D200
    Sigma 17-70mm f2.8-4.5 Macro
    www.betterphoto.com/?darrell

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    eastern ontario
    Posts
    401
    HSM is sigmas version of AF-s....quick and quiet...

    i debated the very lens, but went with nikon, because if i didnt i'd wish i did, the VR will be usefull for upcoming weddings or whatever..

    i hear the sigma is gr8, buy it and enjoy

    cory
    NIKON D300/W BAT GRIP!
    sigma 18-200 dc
    Nikkor 70-200VR
    SB-800
    Extreme III 1GB card
    Extreme II 2gb card
    Lexar professional 1GB
    STEALTH REPORTER 650AW
    Tiffen UV filter

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