New Thread - A new, improved Full Frame DSLR

anti shake.......thats what tripods were invented for

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Originally Posted by jr_rodriguez

So my question is: was it really worth it to have anti-shake in the body? :D

J.R.

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I guess, J.R., that depends on just how startlingly good looking she is when she peels off that ... that ... (melting into a puddle). Sh-sh-shake shake shake ... LOL ;)

I mean, c'mon. There is a limit to all the systems and we always find the ragged edge, somewhere. It cannot do this, that one cannot do that. My contention is that IF you are going to offer a high-end, then support the thing. If SONY sticks with the toys, then they are a "toymaker" and can lay claim to it. They shouldn't offer something with any growth potential.

Accessories imply a deeper interest. Better, high-end Zeiss lenses imply a deeper interest. Why drum up the interest if you have no intention of GOING FOR IT?

No ...I have to believe it is not over yet. I just wish they would hurry it up. :eek: I would appreciate having the "Alpha One" for my final project and showpiece.

The "Alpha One" ...

• 30 to 35MP,
• OVF (or instantaneous EVF)
• ISO-25600 or higher
• 14 fps or better
• GPS (obviously)
• Wireless RF flash equipped (finally), with flash control features
• twin RAID SD-card equipped
• Electronic T/C (1.4x, 2x, 3x)
• Auto HDR
• Full Panorama and 3-d Panorama capability
• 3-D split sensor operation
• DOF calculator enabled with any SONY or Metz flash
• Reactive temperature adjustment to maintain critical focus during temperature changes.
• and yeah, throw in your silly-assed movie mode, if you positively, absolutely need to be a cinematic-god!

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Originally Posted by DonSchap

Accessories imply a deeper interest. Better, high-end Zeiss lenses imply a deeper interest. Why drum up the interest if you have no intention of GOING FOR IT?

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Actually, Don...I believe the reason they have Zeiss lenses is because they got caught violating Zeiss' patents. So they struck a deal instead of spending years in court. So that implies that Sony had no intention of actually having Zeiss glass to go along with their gear, only Sony glass (though with stolen designs). But I am sure the deal expires at some point, and then we'll see what happens.

didnt know about that violation.

the sony/ zeiss arrangement is simply a tool of convenience for both parties. zeiss is a name synonymous with glass so it adds credibility to the sony name. and sony adds exposure for volume for the zeiss company. pretty good deal.

as for the alpha one.
30 to 35MP - not necessary nor wanted on my part anyway.
OVF (or instantaneous EVF) - yepp
ISO-25600 or higher - not with 35mp you wont. the d3s even struggles at this iso range.
14 fps or better - not interested personally. spray and pray is what you;re after.
GPS (obviously) - moderately useful gimmick
Wireless RF flash equipped (finally), with flash control features - would be great, i think we're a while off that but its comign now that PW for example have worked out how to tap into TTL with their their radio triggers.
twin RAID SD-card equipped - why ? cards are very reliable. nice to have i suppose but hardly something thats a key feature.
Electronic T/C (1.4x, 2x, 3x) - this will just be a cropped image so not a photographic tool really.
Auto HDR - moderately useful gimmick
Full Panorama and 3-d Panorama capability - moderately useful gimmick
3-D split sensor operation - lol too funny.
DOF calculator enabled with any SONY or Metz flash - irrelevant
Reactive temperature adjustment to maintain critical focus during temperature changes - lmfaoooooooooooo
and yeah, throw in your silly-assed movie mode, if you positively, absolutely need to be a cinematic-god! - at least you got 1 right.

whats interesting is that for all of your griping about photographic performance and purity of the device, very little in the way of photographic improvements. ie: wheres the demand for dynamic range ? or colour depth ? or newer more refined metering ? or improved AF ? or even a built in GND filter. none of the real nuts and bolts stuff mentioned. what you seem to want is a mobile PC built into a camera.

personally i think the future of cameras will be in a interchangable sensor.

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Originally Posted by Rooz

personally i think the future of cameras will be in a interchangable sensor.

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Now, I came up with that one years ago, but fine ... as long as they do it ... I am very used to using the current Full Frame body. Slip in some new sensor ... and kick-butt software to make it happen. Yeah ... I am with that. :D

Again, just a few new things to keep it current.

I would love a "midnight" focusing system ... that would enhance what you have ... skew the shot to optimum ISO ... total saturation of color ... and BAM ... whoa Momma! :eek:

If we are going to use technology to "get the shot." Let's go all the way!

The new AUTO! :cool:

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Originally Posted by Peekayoh

Whilst the DSLR is probably good for a few years yet it will become a Dodo first in the Sony world.
The SLT is just a transitional camera, as an innovative electronics company, Sony will move away from the complicated (read expensive to manufacture) DSLR towards (FF) EVIL with global shutter and on-sensor PDAF. I don't know how long it will take Sony to come up with a viable top end camera like that but I fully expect them to do it, and won't it be great.
Imagine it, high res, lightweight, silent, 24 FPS, 60FPS in burst, water cooled,,, just joking. Then there's the software stuff like Panorama, smile recognition, eye recognition (for wildlife), image stacking for HDR, image stacking for high iso,,, ahhh, add your own......

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Originally Posted by Rooz

............dont agree. well, we partially agree. there is no question that the biggest part of the market will be that bottom end, but there will always be a place for larger cameras. why ? cos people use big lens'. you can make the body of a camera as small as you like it but thats not gonna be much good once you whack a 70-200/2.8 onto it. or god forbid a 300/2.8 and up.

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You misunderstand me. I'm not talking about a midget like NEX, but a FF EVIL camera with proper controls which replaces the DSLR. Such a camera could conceivably use existing A-Mount lenses but more likely an E-Mount range of new lenses.

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Originally Posted by Rooz

............no actually, they dont have the capacity to do that...nor would they want to. its not just about the size of the company and their cash reserves. the biggest and baddest companies dont always win, and in this particualr niche market, that just aint gonna happen.

so i use the amplifier example again. hell, pick speakers even. sony are much bigger than NAD or Boston Acoustics but they will never eliminate such premium players from the market mostly cos they dont care what they do. sony are happy to play in the market where they make the most money...not necessarily make the best product by category.

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Actually they do, and I'm not just talking about Sony's financial muscle, more about their undoubted ability in electronics and their desire for innovation.
Sony will move away from the traditional (D)SLR because the OVF and mechanical shutter are expensive items to make and in any case don't play to their strengths.
The all electronic solution is absolutely desirable from Sony's POV and that's where they are going.
Such a camera will much cheaper to make and will have big advantages over the current ones. Yes the DSLR will hang around just like the Rangefinder but in smaller and smaller numbers.
CaNikon rely on Sony for Sensors and possibly other electronics whereas Sony rely on no one but Sony in these areas. Get rid of the mechanicals and everything is in the Sony house.

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Originally Posted by Rooz

unfortuantelty for us, that will never happen. but damn me if we cant wish it to be true. id love to get that ZA135.

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Rooz and Don agreeing :eek:

WTF ????

Lol 135mm has been a pet fave focal length for me ever since i shot the 135L. But he zeiss takes it to another level. Id LOVE to shoot that on a d700.

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Originally Posted by Peekayoh

You misunderstand me. I'm not talking about a midget like NEX, but a FF EVIL camera with proper controls which replaces the DSLR. Such a camera could conceivably use existing A-Mount lenses but more likely an E-Mount range of new lenses.

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Gotcha. Im not wedded to an ovf but i must say that it will take some convincing that an evf would be as nice to look thru.

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Actually they do, and I'm not just talking about Sony's financial muscle, more about their undoubted ability in electronics and their desire for innovation.

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No, they dont. We will agree to disagre here. Thwy have neither the smarts nor the desire to be the very best in anycniche market. 100% of their history in these sorts of markets indicate that they coexist in the market at the upper end but certainly not the best by any means. As i said before, sony is not and never will be a player who plays for the love of the game, they play for the margins.

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CaNikon rely on Sony for Sensors and possibly other electronics whereas Sony rely on no one but Sony in these areas. Get rid of the mechanicals and everything is in the Sony house.

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Nikon have done yes, i dont think canon ever has have they ? Besides which this is more a point to my argument. They supply nikon, a direct competitor, with components formproducts that compete directly with their own. That in and of itself should be a clear sign to you that the margins in commerical agreements to supply components is more important to them any desire to be the best.

If they wanted to eliminate the competition they would have said to nikon...screw you, make your own cmos sensor. And lets face it, the nikon success story came with the d300 which is of course on the back of a sony sensor.

I too will take some convincing on EVFs, but that's where it's going.
Sony are putting a lot of effort into OLED technology, maybe that will be the game changer?

Yes, AFAIK Canon buy all their P&S sensors from Sony.
The Sony semiconductor/imaging division is already big and they are investing $1.2 billion to double capacity this coming year.
They have to sell to the competition, Sony DSLR division is still small beer.
If the EVIL FF camera I envisaged does appear and emulates the success of NEX and SLT, who knows where it will all end up.

BTW, all of them are in it for the money and all of them have to answer to the Shareholders.