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MatH
06-23-2005, 07:30 AM
Hi all.
Found a Geramn website with full size ISO test images. And the adres is...
http://www.heise.de/ct/ftp/testbilder/kameras_0506/

speaklightly
06-24-2005, 08:01 PM
MatH-

The ISO 3200 photo samples look quite good. Thanksfor the link.

Sarah Joyce

MatH
06-27-2005, 02:04 PM
Well... all the talking about *Ist DS bad iso performance vs. Rebel XT got me scared, since I plan to use it in low light conditions a lot. XT indeed has less noise, but can't go to ISO 3200. These samples convinced me that DS doesn't have too much noise for my needs.
I've decided to buy it, but before doing so, I wanted to see it and hold it. No luck though. Distributor for Slovenia decided not to stock them anymore, since last week they only take orders for it. I guess I'll have to trust other *Ist DS users and order it without seein it... oh well.

WightWalker
06-27-2005, 02:22 PM
The grip on the *istDS is far better than the Rebel XT.

Don't believe all what you read about in reviews basically on any camera as reviewers tend to be biased particularly towards Canon & Nikon, IMHO.

DP Review slated the *istDS for it's poor JPEG quality and even went to great lengths to show blown up images that it has NEVER done on any other manufacturer. When you look at the sample shots of the watch face - I'm prevented from posting these as it apparrently infringes copyright - there is no difference between the *istDS & Rebel XT; in fact IMHO, I found the *istDS better which is pretty good considering it's 6M & the XT is 8M.

jeisner
06-27-2005, 03:47 PM
Don't believe all what you read about in reviews basically on any camera as reviewers tend to be biased particularly towards Canon & Nikon, IMHO.

They have more money to spend on advertising and buying good reviews ;-)

TheObiJuan
06-27-2005, 04:07 PM
Oh come on, talk like that is ridiculous. ;)

The *st DS is a good camera, but I feel it shies in comparison to the 350D.
I am not Pentax bashing as I like pentax and their gear. :p

MatH
07-03-2005, 08:46 AM
Some more full size ISO samples at
http://www.e-fotografija.com/artman/publish/article_520.shtml

Shots with teddy-dear and Afga book are downloadable in full size.
I think that shadow af Afga book at ISO 3200 shows moderate noise, but I'm still on my way to buy this camera :p

jeisner
07-03-2005, 04:53 PM
Oh come on, talk like that is ridiculous. ;)

The *st DS is a good camera, but I feel it shies in comparison to the 350D.
I am not Pentax bashing as I like pentax and their gear. :p

Talk like the XT dominating the ist dS by people who have never even held a DS let alone used BOTH cameras for any decent period of time, (except reading reviews by Canon Shills) is what is radiculous in my opinion.... :p

Each to their own i guess..... :cool:

Rhys
07-03-2005, 06:06 PM
Talk like the XT dominating the ist dS by people who have never even held a DS let alone used BOTH cameras for any decent period of time, (except reading reviews by Canon Shills) is just radiculous in my opinion.... :p

Each to their own i guess..... :cool:

I am of the opinion that there's very little to choose between the various cameras on offer except for personal opinions. I made my choice with the Canon XT and Canon 420 flash. I have the Canon 18-55 f3.5 and Canon 50 f1.8 lenses. Currently with sharpening raised to +1 I feel the images are a little soft in jpeg but they're not too bad. I would very much like to get the Tamron 28-75 f2.8 just for the extra speed and constant f-stop but am having difficulty in finding one.

My biggest niggle is that the Canon lenses don't come with lens hoods. I love the petal hood that I've seen pictured on the Sigma 18-50. Perhaps I would have been better getting my XT body only and getting the Sigma 18-50 - I don't know as I haven't yet played with a Sigma 18-50.

At the moment my search is for decent lenses in the 28 - 135 range. I might well add a doubler and a macro converter to my lens repetoirre but there's no rush as I am still waiting for my papers before I can actually work.

jeisner
07-03-2005, 07:03 PM
I am of the opinion that there's very little to choose between the various cameras on offer except for personal opinions.

We have gone down this road a few times on this forum, and the same people seem to want to turn more threads into the "our cameras are better than yours" troll threads, again and again....

I do personally I agree with you Rhys, they are all good cameras that have different strengths and weaknesses in different areas, and so that it up to the buyer which advantages are more important to them and which don't matter to them...

jeisner
07-03-2005, 07:07 PM
Well... all the talking about *Ist DS bad iso performance vs. Rebel XT got me scared

Remember who is saying this, they obviously feel the need to reasure themselves for whatever reason?

Ray Schnoor
07-03-2005, 07:16 PM
Hi all.
Found a Geramn website with full size ISO test images. And the adres is...
http://www.heise.de/ct/ftp/testbilder/kameras_0506/

To be fair, has anyone mentioned the moire issues in the *ist DS images in the above link?;)
Ray.

TheObiJuan
07-03-2005, 07:41 PM
Remember who is saying this, they obviously feel the need to reasure themselves for whatever reason?


haha, I own the 20D, not the XT. I don't mind saying the camera has it's flaws, as the 20D does.

100% crops of the pentax just aren't that good. That is my opinion. sorry. :p

I wish the 350D did have a ISO 3200 option as I KNOW it would outshine the pentax by a mile. The 350D has VERY similar ISO performance to the 20D and the 20D has super clean ISO 3200 images. So you can make any further assumptions from there.

TheObiJuan
07-03-2005, 07:48 PM
To be fair, has anyone mentioned the moire issues in the *ist DS images in the above link?;)
Ray.


Did I hear somewhere that the *ist DS uses Nikon chips?
The moire ain't that bad, but pretty visible.

jeisner
07-03-2005, 07:50 PM
haha, I own the 20D, not the XT. I don't mind saying the camera has it's flaws, as the 20D does.

100% crops of the pentax just aren't that good. That is my opinion. sorry. :p

I know you own the 20d, but you own canon and will put everyone else down whenever you have the chance ;-) Also you aren't the one who started the threads he and I were referring to though, an XT owner did.....

100% crops of what? JPEGs in bright (P&S) mode on dpreview??? have you taken shots yourself? no? I have used the 20d, 300d, 350d, E300 and obviously prefer the ist DS as I prefer a decent viewfinder, correctly exposed pictures and true spot metering, and as your canon shill review admits in RAW mode the DS 100% crop resolution is as good as 300d or D70 that he compared it to at the time of the review (it is also good in JPEG if you don't use bright or saturation boost mode like Phil did)...

I shoot RAW as most people I know do (even Canon 20d owners) so 100% crops of the 'Bright' jpeg mode mean nothing to me, as does the opinion of someone who knows not what they are talking about other than regurgitating the opinions of a Canon Shill reviewer simply to troll the Pentax section of this forum....

jeisner
07-03-2005, 07:52 PM
Did I hear somewhere that the *ist DS uses Nikon chips?
The moire ain't that bad, but pretty visible.

LOL, you are funny seriously you keep making posts without knowing what you are talking about....

They BOTH use SONY chips...

I have NEVER seen moire in a photo I have taken when not in 'bright' JPEG mode, the reason why it is seen more often in the D70 (but still not that often) even with RAW is they use different AA filters, the D70 one is more tailored to super sharp images where the ist DS is a little more conservative to avoid moire... Both approaches are valid IMHO..

TheObiJuan
07-03-2005, 08:04 PM
I know you own the 20d, but you own canon and will put everyone else down whenever you have the chance ;-) You aren't the one who started the threads he and I were referring to though, an XT owner did.....

100% crops of what? JPEGs in bright (P&S) mode on dpreview??? have you taken shots yourself? no? I have used the 20d, 300d, 350d, E300 and obviously prefer the ist DS as I prefer a decent viewfinder, correctly exposed pictures and true spot metering, and as your canon shill review admits in RAW mode the DS 100% crop resolution is as good as 300d or D70 that he compared it to at the time of the review (it is also good in JPEG if you don't use bright or saturation boost mode like Phil did)...

I shoot RAW as most people I know do (even Canon 20d owners) so 100% crops of the 'Bright' jpeg mode mean nothing to me, as does the opinion of someone who knows not what they are talking about other than regurgitating the opinions of a Canon Shill reviewer simply to troll the Pentax section of this forum....


Touchy, touchy. I was commenting on images I have seen on dpreview forums, the link given on the first page of this thread, and pbase.
I have nothing against pentax, as I have already said. But if there is a better alternative, then I will mention it.
What review are you talking about? :confused: I have never bothered to read a review on your camera. I make my judgement from images I see. Sway me if you wish with some 100% crops of yours untouched at ISO 3200.

I don't mind doing it when asked. I get asked a lot on here by shy members that don't want to post. They see the image and are amazed with the clean images the 20D produces.
I may not own your pentax, or shoot with it regularly, but I did consider it when dslr shopping. It wasn't for me, so I relay that to other people when I see fit.
I do not troll. You just have some issues with your camera's performance and are obviously displacing it. ;)

TheObiJuan
07-03-2005, 08:06 PM
LOL, you are funny seriously you keep making posts without knowing what you are talking about....

They BOTH use SONY chips...

I have NEVER seen moire in a photo I have taken when not in 'bright' JPEG mode, the reason why it is seen more often in the D70 (but still not that often) even with RAW is they use different AA filters, the D70 one is more tailored to super sharp images where the ist DS is a little more conservative to avoid moire... Both approaches are valid IMHO..

Once again, why such an a$$hole tone?
I was asking a question, not trying to start anything. I remember there being a link with the two camera manufacturers and moire. It may not apear often, but it's sad that it shows up in still life test photos that include resolution charts.

jeisner
07-03-2005, 08:18 PM
Once again, why such an a$$hole tone?
I was asking a question, not trying to start anything. I remember there being a link with the two camera manufacturers and moire. It may not apear often, but it's sad that it shows up in still life test photos that include resolution charts.

It shows up sometimes in very fine detail ONLY if you use 'bright' Jpeg mode, it is not the chip or AA filter at fault but that particular JPEG processing mode...

But for the people who would use that mode I don't think it is really an issue, as they wouldn't notice and prefer a bright print ready image..

jeisner
07-03-2005, 08:26 PM
I make my judgement from images I see. Sway me if you wish with some 100% crops of yours untouched at ISO 3200.

I never said the ist DS beats the 20D (it is less than 1/3rd the price, at least here in Australia) you were saying the ist DS resolution is poor at 100% crops, you said nothing about also at ISO 3200, the XT doesn't even have 3200 for that matter, so where did 3200 come from?

Of course I admit that the 20d does do better at 3200 than the DS (you pay a lot more for the 20d for a reason), although personally I find with bright lenses I have never needed ISO 3200 (most of the time 800 is plenty for me), and I also tend not to need to print 100% crops from high ISO shots. But if someone does need to print a lot of 100% crops from ISO 3200 images, they may very well be better off with the 20D..


I may not own your pentax, or shoot with it regularly, but I did consider it when dslr shopping. It wasn't for me, so I relay that to other people when I see fit.

Fine you can relay WHY it was your choice, I never said you couldn't, but give some kind of reason...


I do not troll. You just have some issues with your camera's performance and are obviously displacing it. ;)

LOL, if that is what you think then fine, think what you will but I am not the one posting in the Canon forums, making broad statements of how my camera brand is leagues above yours...

Here as well as on DPREVIEW many Canon owners feel the need to go into the forums of other camera brands and go on about how much better their cameras are? why is that? if they are so secure with their great cameras?

TheObiJuan
07-03-2005, 08:54 PM
My apologies, I meant the *st DS at ISO 3200 images were of poor quality. At other ISO values it is a superb camera with very clear images.

Although the XT does not have ISO 3200 it can be pushed from ISO 1600. I also made the statement that the noise performance of the XT is very similar to the 20D, so their IS0 3200, if available, would be similar.

I hit the New Posts link above, then I click on posts that spark my interest. I don't intentionally go into this forum, nor do I feel that I coming into some sacred space. It is a place to discuss the cameras from their respective manufacturers, not bathe them in compliments only.

I am sorry if you, or others feel that I am spreading canon propaganda. I do not intend to. The only feature I commented on was ISO performance. I could have said that the pentax has a viefinder that is 100% better, a layout and controls are much better, and a nicer, bigger screen. But this thread and discussion was just about ISO performance.

The 350D has faults and short commings, but when it comes to ISO performance and image quality, I am unable to say enough. Image quality is first and foremost with cameras.

I don't feel boasting or praising their canon cameras is making up for insecurities, it's just expressing their admiration and exhiliration for owning one of the many fine cameras out there.

jeisner
07-03-2005, 09:27 PM
My apologies, I meant the *st DS at ISO 3200 images were of poor quality. At other ISO values it is a superb camera with very clear images.

Sorry then Juan but I read your post where you said "The *st DS is a good camera, but I feel it shies in comparison to the 350D." and I didn't realise you were just talking about ISO 3200 performance...


The 350D has faults and short commings, but when it comes to ISO performance and image quality, I am unable to say enough. Image quality is first and foremost with cameras.

I guess this is where we differ as in my opinion once the pure resolution across the board (all brands) reaches as high a quality level as it has, then other important factors start coming into play... Not to mention there are many factors that contribute to the overall image quality beyond just resolution...