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Payne
06-10-2005, 10:58 AM
It seems we are gonna see sample images of the D50 in this site soon since the D50 has been already added to the "upcoming reviews list" / however in the meantime I suggest checking out these interesting side by side comparisons:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=13785448

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=13797507

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=13773206

D50 japanese review
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/review/2005/06/06/1651.html

XT japanese review
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/review/2005/04/26/1401.html

The new Nikon D50 is a winner, very low noise from Iso 200 to 1600 (better even than the XT) also the AWB is excellent and the image quality is superb!!! BRAVO NIKON!!!

Regards,

D70FAN
06-10-2005, 02:03 PM
It seems we are gonna see sample images of the D50 in this site soon since the D50 has been already added to the "upcoming reviews list" / however in the meantime I suggest checking out these interesting side by side comparisons:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=13785448

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=13797507

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=13773206

D50 japanese review
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/review/2005/06/06/1651.html

XT japanese review
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/review/2005/04/26/1401.html

The new Nikon D50 is a winner, very low noise from Iso 200 to 1600 (better even than the XT) also the AWB is excellent and the image quality is superb!!! BRAVO NIKON!!!

Regards,

Never a doubt. It will be nice to see some actual pictures though. Thanks for all the web pointers.

Payne
06-10-2005, 03:36 PM
just I hope Jeff K. will be fair with this "Excellent" camera......D50>XT by far :D finally Nikon did it.

Regards,

aparmley
06-10-2005, 04:29 PM
I wish this camera would have been out as well as the D70s back when I was deciding on which camera to purchase... I pretty much was looking at the XT and the D70...I nearly went with the D70 but didn't want to purchase a camera a month or so before the upgrade came out and there were other factors involved too... I am happy with the XT, but I am eagerly awaiting the D50 reviews and sample images :D

D70FAN
06-10-2005, 05:04 PM
I wish this camera would have been out as well as the D70s back when I was deciding on which camera to purchase... I pretty much was looking at the XT and the D70...I nearly went with the D70 but didn't want to purchase a camera a month or so before the upgrade came out and there were other factors involved too... I am happy with the XT, but I am eagerly awaiting the D50 reviews and sample images :D

Methinks the D50 will outshine the D70 and D70s in many ways. A very nice implementation by Nikon. But then so was the D70 when it came out.

Probably the last new Nikon dSLR's using a CCD. ;)

Payne
06-11-2005, 12:38 AM
D50 vs XT vs D70 side by side

http://www.digitalreview.ca/cams/NikonD50vsD70SvsXT_images.shtml

Verdict: D50 > XT

Ray Schnoor
06-11-2005, 07:31 PM
Verdict: D50 > XT
First I want to say that I am not pro Canon as some people may realize who frequent these forums, but I would not say that I am anti Canon or a Nikon fanatic either.

That said, I don't believe that you come to a knowledgeable conclusion about either camera from a few test shots from "any" camera review site. You need to hold/shoot/compare your own photos from any camera you want to purchase. For every review that is pro Canon, I'm sure that you will find another that is pro Nikon. I'm sure that both cameras will be able to produce excellent photos. Anyone that says otherwise, in my opinion at least, is probably biased towards the camera they say is better.
Ray.

g0tr00t
06-11-2005, 08:56 PM
I agree with Ray. You HAVE to use both to know what you want. IMO, menus and flash=Nikon. Final output for large print=Canon.

I own the following D100, 1D & 1Ds. I had the D2h and returned it. I am sure the D70(s) and D2x are great and so are the MKII's.

You need to make a list of wants and needs and see who (N or C) fits the bill.....err should I say pays the bill(s) ;)

Each one has their strengths and weaknesses. Before an assigment, I grab either the N or C depending on what is needed by the client.

:D

Payne
06-11-2005, 10:18 PM
I'm sure that both cameras will be able to produce excellent photos. Anyone that says otherwise, in my opinion at least, is probably biased towards the camera they say is better.
Ray.

Sure, I also think so. I know either XT or D50 are excellent cameras and "my verdict" is based on the links I left above......probably I should have said the new D50 kit lens is better than the XT kit / or maybe the Nikon D50 "jpg" beats the XT jpg. /// what Im sure is that the D50 is really less noisy than the D70 and even than the XT (just a bit / shadows above all)

thats all, dont get me wrong Im just a bit excited because of the great D50 image quality....and Its quite a bit sure it is gonna be my next camera. :)

Regards,

Bluedog
06-12-2005, 08:20 PM
The new Nikon D50 is a winner, very low noise from Iso 200 to 1600 (better even than the XT) also the AWB is excellent and the image quality is superb!!! BRAVO NIKON!!!

Regards,

I looked at the ISO 1600 comparisons with the Nikon's vs XT (funny the 20D wasn't included) and unless my eyes are going bad or your seeing something I'm not ... the XT sample images depict less noise than both the Nikon's.

Payne
06-12-2005, 09:11 PM
I looked at the ISO 1600 comparisons with the Nikon's vs XT (funny the 20D wasn't included) and unless my eyes are going bad or your seeing something I'm not ... the XT sample images depict less noise than both the Nikon's.

Sure, the Iso 1600 on the XT is just a bit less noisy than the D50 but from Iso 200 to 800 the D50 overcomes the XT / I will barely use the Iso 1600 so for me its much important the performance at lower Isos.

Besides, notice the XT and 300D burn out highlights and the D50 and D70 work really fine.....and about quality image, the XT + Kit is tooooo soft, awfully soft, but the Nikon D50 + kit is sharp and neat, the D50 jpg is by far better than the XT jpg. no competion I think at this point among amateurs Dsrl.

Poor perfomance of the XT and 300D in comparison with Nikons D50 and D70 at Iso 1600
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=13773206

Bluedog
06-12-2005, 09:31 PM
Well I'll have to say that the Nikon Lens in use is far better than the Canon Kit Lens ... its a known fact that the Canon 18-55mm Lens isn't a show stopper but yet a decent performer for what it is. It'd be a far better comparison if like lens were being used: for example the 50mm primes from each company.

This image is taken at ISO 1600 with no noise reduction software used:

http://www.pbase.com/smith_xt/image/44550327.jpg

Payne
06-12-2005, 09:49 PM
It'd be a far better comparison if like lens were being used: for example the 50mm primes from each company.


yeah but it depends on the prime used, I believe the Nikons Dsrl work better with Dx lenses, but Nikon has not released yet a 50mm Dx prime.....in contrast, old canon 50mm primes work fine with Canon Dsrl....


This image is taken at ISO 1600 with no noise reduction software used:

:eek: you can NOT measure the image quality of any given camera by a resized image, you should post a 100% crop / anyway, I think the XT and D50 have a great Iso 1600 with very low noise levels......however, I really love the overall image quality of the D50, in fact I think the D50 jpg is the best I've ever seen so far....

Regards,

JTL
06-12-2005, 10:58 PM
As someone who has been sitting on the dSLR fence for a while, I have been curious about this camera. I predicted it would be a loser, but I have to say I was wrong and all early indications are that it is going to do quite well after all and produce excellent photographs. But, how could they leave out a DOF preview button? It's such a basic thing on an SLR. Unless of course they figure they are going to be up selling to the P&S crowd who doesn't have DOF preview experience. I don't really get it...

Bluedog
06-12-2005, 11:00 PM
The D50 will be a fine camera by all means but I just think that some people way over state the comparisons in various Forums. As for that personally I'll probably never print anything over the standard 4x6, 5x7 and occasional 8x10 so the results should very acceptable at ISO 1600.

Here's the full size image: @ ISO 1600 > 56K warning (http://upload.pbase.com/smith_xt/image/44725507/original)

Payne
06-12-2005, 11:13 PM
Unless of course they figure they are going to be up selling to the P&S crowd who doesn't have DOF preview experience. I don't really get it...

Why is the DOF button so important??? if you can set fstops manually.... :confused:

Payne
06-12-2005, 11:17 PM
As for that personally I'll probably never print anything over the standard 4x6, 5x7 and occasional 8x10 so the results should very acceptable at ISO 1600.

right, but me think you should have gone for a the cheaper 300D since you dont need the extra MPs....even with a 4Mps P&S you would get great 8*10 prints.... ;)

Bluedog
06-12-2005, 11:34 PM
right, but me think you should have gone for a the cheaper 300D since you dont need the extra MPs....even with a 4Mps P&S you would get great 8*10 prints.... ;)

Honestly what average user and I'd tend to think most of us are can afford or have very much desire to print many images over 8X10 ... the features (size mainly) and performance of the XT were the selling points, not the mega pixels ... :)

Ray Schnoor
06-13-2005, 06:52 AM
Well I'll have to say that the Nikon Lens in use is far better than the Canon Kit Lens ... its a known fact that the Canon 18-55mm Lens isn't a show stopper but yet a decent performer for what it is. It'd be a far better comparison if like lens were being used...
But that is the lens they give it. I don't have any statistics on this, but I would wager that the majority of people who get the D50 or XT will get the kit lens and this will be their main/only lens, at least for quite awhile. So I believe that those comparisons are important. Canon fans also can't on one hand say that the XT kit w/lens is better on a price point than the D50/D70, and on the other hand say the Nikon lens is much better, so you have to make comparisons with another lens. I don't think that is very fair. I personally think that they both take excellent photos and would think that either camera would be a great purchase. I also prefer not to get the kit lens with my dSLR. Just my ramblings.
Ray.

erichlund
06-13-2005, 10:37 AM
First of all, the D50, D70, D70s, 300D and 350XT are all good cameras. Every camera out there has warts, some points that aren't perfect. But really, get over it.

As far as working better with DX lenses, that's baloney. Nikon has gone out of its way to put really good glass in the DX lenses, and hence, they perform very well, if not necessarily always the sharpest tacks in the box. But, the cameras respond to the quality of the glass, not to the specially designed lenses. It's more likely that a DX lens will have "issues" because the glass is designed around the APS-C image circle instead of the full frame. This means that you're more likely to see light fall off, vignetting and distortions normally associated with the edge areas of full sized lenses. These are things that you don't see as much of when using full sized lenses on APS-C cameras, because you only used the center of the glass.

As far as comparing, it's certainly valid to compare the kit lenses, but I'd say that's a known quantity. If you are comparing the cameras, then the lenses should, as much as possible, match. From what I understand, the Canon 50mm f1.8 and the Nikkor 50mm f1.8 are about as identical as it gets. Being equally cheap, they would be a really good choice for comparing cameras.

Depth of field preview is important because it allows the camera to show you what you are actually going to see on the sensor. Normally, you preview with the lens wide open. This make focusing much easier, but you cannot really get a feel for the depth of field of the shot, you have to do that in your mind's eye. With the DOF preview button, the lens stops down while you are looking, not just when you press the trigger. So, you actually get to see the DOF of the shot. On my old Canon A-1, the DOF Preview was on the side of the camera operated by the left hand. The Nikon has it on the shutter button side. As a result, you may be pressing three buttons at the same time (AE/AF Lock, Shutter and DOF Pre), not to mention that both the command dials are over there as well. That can be one busy hand.

Cheers,
Eric

D70FAN
06-13-2005, 12:46 PM
yeah but it depends on the prime used, I believe the Nikons Dsrl work better with Dx lenses, but Nikon has not released yet a 50mm Dx prime.....in contrast, old canon 50mm primes work fine with Canon Dsrl....


Not so. The AF 50 f1.8, and f1.4, work great with the D70, as do all of the Nikkor AF lenses. Older Nikkor manual lens usability may vary.

Digital specific lenses (DX, Di, EF-S, DC) may have coverage problems on full sized (35mm) sensors or 35mm film dSLR's, as they are optimized for a smaller APS-C sized target. The most comon problems are serious vignetting and loss of edge/corner sharpness.

Just want to set the record straight.

TheObiJuan
06-13-2005, 02:12 PM
Is this D50 tested even a production model? What methodology was utilized for taking these comparison picutres. I am not foolish, so I won't go blindly believing and following crap I read on the internet from potenially misleading or questionable (perhaps unintentionally) sources.

I need to see 100% crops of the pics, with no post processing, and have the settings clearly labeled. Lens choice is crucial too, not for noise comparisons, but for sharpness, color, and contrast. It appears that the tides have turned and now people are looking at great primes on a cheap nikon plastic camera.

I will wait and hold my judgment until Jeff here, or Phil, over at DP do the reviews.

I don't know what settings they shot at with the XT for the neon sign picture, but it was way overexposed, and proper (auto) metering on it always preserves highlights, and underexposed the rest of the picture.

Ray Schnoor
06-13-2005, 02:24 PM
cheap nikon plastic camera.

I'm sure that either the cheap Nikon plastic camera or the cheap Canon plastic camera will take good photos.:rolleyes:
Ray.

TheObiJuan
06-13-2005, 04:05 PM
the comment was meant as a joke, since many nikon users over the net kept saying that it was unfair to put L glass on a cheap and plastic dslr and not go out of thier way to say it was the kit lens.

Plastic or metal, the 350D is a stout camera.

Payne
06-13-2005, 05:00 PM
Not so. The AF 50 f1.8, and f1.4, work great with the D70, as do all of the Nikkor AF lenses. Older Nikkor manual lens usability may vary.

Just want to set the record straight.

Thanks, but according to the samples posted at Dpreview.com, "the side by side comparison with the 300D" does not look so good (Phil used the 50mm f1.4D prime), maybe is the D70 jpg which is a bit noisy and not so sharp - in fact, the D70 image quality improves significatively when shoot RAW.....I guess I was wrong.

Regards,

Payne
06-13-2005, 05:14 PM
Is this D50 tested even a production model? What methodology was utilized for taking these comparison picutres. I am not foolish, so I won't go blindly believing and following crap I read on the internet from potenially misleading or questionable (perhaps unintentionally) sources.

The japanese review is a SERIOUS review.


I need to see 100% crops of the pics, with no post processing, and have the settings clearly labeled.

You can download each image and see by yourself which of them look better. ther่'s no post processing, in fact, the photographs are straight out of the camera.


Lens choice is crucial too, not for noise comparisons, but for sharpness, color, and contrast.

Maybe, but as somebody else pointed out, most of people who buy the XT are gonna use this camera + Kit / and the 18-55mm kit lens is simply awfully soft, lack of contrast, sharpness, etc etc. / by buying the D50 I dont need to invest additional bucks ($500 at least) for a decent glass.

The noise on the D50 is really impressive, I can hardly see it at Iso 200 / however the XT at Iso 100 is noisier in shadows / although the XT is just a bit less noisy at Iso 1600 / but from Iso 200 to 800 the D50 RULES.


I will wait and hold my judgment until Jeff here, or Phil, over at DP do the reviews.

I've already seen enough and I've already made my decision too....the Nikon D50 will be my next buy / sincerely Im really amazed with D50 jpg quality /


I don't know what settings they shot at with the XT for the neon sign picture, but it was way overexposed, and proper (auto) metering on it always preserves highlights, and underexposed the rest of the picture.

You can download the original picture at full resolution from the japanese site I left above. The XT is a great camera, but under hard conditions the D50 performs nuch better.

Bluedog
06-13-2005, 05:22 PM
The XT is a great camera, but under hard conditions the D50 performs nuch better.

"Hard Conditions" ... do explain that one a little further ... :confused:

TheObiJuan
06-13-2005, 05:32 PM
I only see one pic at ISO 1600 from that page, the image shows a lot of noise, and looking at the XT image, it shows less noise, but is blowing the highlights. This is very unusual behaviour for the XT, as it always exposes for highlights, and underexposes the rest.

I can't wait to see this camera come out so English reviews can be had, and more, (better), ISO images are available. If the camera does as good as the D70, (despite common nikon noise), then it will be an awesome(!!) deal for many new DSLR owners.

Bluedog
06-13-2005, 06:45 PM
True dat Obijuan ... I don't see how anyone could complain about ISO noise between 100 - 800 or even 1600 for that matter from any of these cameras.

jeisner
06-13-2005, 06:59 PM
I am not foolish, so I won't go blindly believing and following crap I read on the internet from potenially misleading or questionable (perhaps unintentionally) sources.


I will wait and hold my judgment until ... or Phil, over at DP do the reviews.

:confused: :eek: :p

Payne
06-13-2005, 08:14 PM
"Hard Conditions" ... do explain that one a little further ... :confused:

I meant high contrast situations....like these shots:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=13773206

but.....you're gonna say I should see more sample shots before drawing a conclusion....thats Ok / I'll wait for the Phil review and ......also Jeff review ;)

Regards,

Bluedog
06-13-2005, 08:29 PM
Oh ... OK ... I'd like to see further reviews too and anyway I only shoot in RAW so Contrast hasn't been an issue that I've seen yet. _ Later

TheObiJuan
06-13-2005, 11:19 PM
Phil and Jeff seem very unbiased, and pretty consistent in their review methodologies. They are trusted by me, but the dpreview forums are another story.

jeisner
06-14-2005, 06:53 AM
Phil and Jeff seem very unbiased, and pretty consistent in their review methodologies. They are trusted by me, but the dpreview forums are another story.

Well re: Phil I tend to disagree, but it is a matter of opinion I guess ;-)

aparmley
06-15-2005, 08:29 PM
Wow that XT picture looked like crap over at Dpreview. I will conceed that... But I have seen a lot of crappy pictures that the D70 has taken, the 20D, the 1Ds... Well if you want to sit there for a second and ponder this with me I think we can both agree that... wait a tick, lets ponder....


(----------1 minute of pondering------------)


Ok... I think we all can agree that who ever is reviewing a camera, if they don't attemp the best picture possible then whats the point... Now... Let say I have my XT set on ISO 1600... and if I wanted to blow out the white lights on a neon sign wouldn't all I need to do is overexpose it by setting the shutter speed a little slower than normal?? thats what that picture over at DPreview looks like to me.. but then again maybe its cause the XT stinks and is a horrible camera. But, lets not all dance around a fire celebratin that finally a fantastic forum, such as dpreview's, has finally proven once and for all that all this mumbo-jumbo about the XT being a good camera is crapola! I mean after all, that picture looks like poo and lets give the XT a little credit. I am putting my money on user error there.

I shoot ISO 1600 all the time and I am thinking about setting up an ISO 1600 Gallery on my webpage to show people how good they are.... I use IS0 1600 very frequently with longer mm and poor light - its a must for getting the sharpest picture.

I bought the XT body only... I will make a blanket statement here, but, I think its accurate, those who buy the XT with the kit lens obviously don't care enough to do a little research on it, so the poor performance of that lens shouldn't bother someone who is willing to pay 900 bucks on something with out even doing a little research.

I like how on that japanesse review page that they had both the 300D and the 350D side by side, the samples of the portrait outside are funny... you can tell the sun is shinning more directly on her than in the 300D picture and yet the 350 is still using a slower shutter speed thus overexposed... so it makes you wonder, if you are going to compare two cameras, you need a very controlled environment, very similar lenses if they are competing brands, or the same lense for the canon v canon shown there, exact same WB, exact same shutter speed, exact same light, exact same boxers or briefs, I like the boxer-briefs myself, everything the same... or why bother... and if you don't want to bother, don't mind if we don't consider your reviews useful.

I don't know guys and gals... I think the D50 will be impressive but we don't have to rip another camera to prove it.

Ray Schnoor
06-15-2005, 08:58 PM
I don't know guys and gals... I think the D50 will be impressive but we don't have to rip another camera to prove it.
I agree that the D50 will probably be a good camera just as I'm sure that the Rebel XT already is.
Ray.

ughi
06-16-2005, 08:06 AM
I'd like D50 vs XT becouse I have a lot of SD memory cards...
Just one question: is the autofocus speed of D50 slower as usually is Nikon autofocus vs Canon autofocus or there is no much difference in this case?
(i like to shoot people moving, but i have problem in manual autofocus)
thank you
:rolleyes:

Payne
06-16-2005, 08:49 AM
is the autofocus speed of D50 slower as usually is Nikon autofocus vs Canon autofocus or there is no much difference in this case?
(i like to shoot people moving, but i have problem in manual autofocus)
thank you
:rolleyes:

It depends on the lens being used....and I guess differences between D70 and XT are marginal / also remember Nikon has released a firmware to increase the autofocus speed....

D70FAN
06-16-2005, 10:26 PM
I've rediscovered that using my D70 is much more fun than talking about it.

I'll drop in from time to time to see if you are all finally doing the same.

So far, from the number of pictures posted, I'd have to say you're not.

TheObiJuan
06-16-2005, 10:32 PM
So far, from the number of pictures posted, I'd have to say you're not.


I wouldn't be so quick to judge. :p
Some of us have been out and about. I was at sea.

http://www.pbase.com/theobijuan/carribean_2005

D70FAN
06-16-2005, 10:47 PM
I wouldn't be so quick to judge. :p
Some of us have been out and about. I was at sea.

http://www.pbase.com/theobijuan/carribean_2005

Ok... 1 out of ten.

And as per your trust from a few posts ago? Maybe...Misplaced.

TheObiJuan
06-16-2005, 10:49 PM
hehe, I still stand by my statements. I trust Phil and Jeff. Any biases they 'may' have go my way, so I don't care. Their methods and tests are what sway my judgement.

I agree about the fun in using your camera. I got to put mine to good use this trip and as a result, I might name my first kid Canon. ;)
Not really, the wife would kill me.

jeisner
06-16-2005, 10:55 PM
Ok... 1 out of ten.

I share my photos on photosig and on DPreview (pentax forum), as I get more feedback there. But to be honest I really take photos for myself and to share with family and friends, not online!

And ATM I am at work so can't go out and take photos now as much as I would prefer to...

ughi
06-17-2005, 04:28 AM
remember Nikon has released a firmware to increase the autofocus speed....

the answer is: why they need to improve autofocus?

couse it was very bad? :eek:

anyway, what about now: it's fast like that of XT?

Canon will be always leader in autofocus?

:confused:

jeisner
06-17-2005, 06:21 AM
Canon will be always leader in autofocus?

Speed and accuracy are two seperate things :P

TheObiJuan
06-17-2005, 11:20 AM
Their 300 2.8 IS L and 400 2.8 IS L are super fast and accurate, if not the fastest and more accurate out there.

Bluedog
06-19-2005, 02:27 PM
Just interesting findings from imaging resource on the D50:

"AF speed is about equal to competitors, though differences in lens design make it difficult to do a side-by-side comparison.

One problem that I noticed in the D70 that seems to have migrated to the D50 is that neither focuses as well as I'm used to seeing from the Canons I've worked with. Though the D50 has an AF illuminator that works without the flash popped up (a very nice feature, as the Canon's flash has to be deployed because it uses a pulsed flash for AF assist), the Canon XT consistently performed better for me in low light and in low contrast scenarios. I had the XT, 20D and D50 arrayed on my desk for comparison, and was trying a few shots to see which shutter mechanism was quieter, aiming the cameras at my white polo shirt. It had texture and pattern to it, but it was mostly white. Both Canons focused instantly. The D50 ran all the way to infinity, then all the way back, and gave up. Trying to focus on text on a white page in a shaded window from five feet away got similar results. This isn't a huge problem until you try to focus with the AF point at the center in Single point mode and your subject is wearing a white, or other uniform-color shirt. You'll do better in these situations either moving the AF point manually, or setting the camera in another mode. Most often, the camera focuses fine, but I have been frustrated a time or two, more often than with other SLRs of this class."

thesween
06-19-2005, 03:56 PM
The "Mine Is Bigger/Better Than Yours" never ends, does it? Side by side, both are great cameras. From a personal standpoint, the Rebel had a rather inexensive feel and look in film format, and feels and looks the same in digital. I think Canon would do themselves a huge favor by dropping the name "Rebel." I find it cheap and gimmicky. The term "off-putting" comes to mind. In fact, I'd say that it was what turned me away from Canon 6-8 years ago.

I was poking around some usenet groups recently, and not surprisingly, most users/owners refer to this camera as the Canon EOS 300D. Still, really, a great camera, I'd take one tomorrow, if someone was giving. However, when it comes to plopping down hard cash, Nikon remains my choice.

Bluedog
06-19-2005, 04:10 PM
I tend to agree on the name thing as 350D does sound more "professional" than Rebel XT. I found a few PBase images of the D50 that looked quite nice ... even @ ISO 1600. Its really a buyers market of choice as all of the DSLR's are producing some very nice results.