Lens or camera?

[Rhys]

Is it better to invest in:

18mm, 28mm, 50mm, 85mm prime lenses and a Dreb (300D) or to invest in an XT and the 18-55 and as many primes as can be afforded for $1200?

[jwhite]

If you don't need the features that are in the XT, it might be a better choice to try and find a 10D. I found one a few months ago for a decent price (~$800). I like it a lot better than the digital rebel (feels real) and I didn't need the features in the 20D or XT.

Jason

[TenD]

Remember the body is only a fancy light tank. All bodies do the same thing, some just do it faster, and with more features. Buying the best glass you can afford will impact the quality of the output of any body. An XT with a poor lens will still produce a poor photo, a 300D with a quality lens will blow an XT with a poor lens away. Invest in the glass, the bodies will come and go.

[Rhys]

I just re-read the review of the Digital Rebel. It seems to be a pretty good camera. Why don't people like it? I heard about the 10D hack but from what I've seen, there appears to be no need to hack it.

Interesting... if I got the Digital Rebel as opposed to the XT then I could afford more and better lenses.

BuyDig gives me the Rebel plus Canon 28 f2.8 plus Canon 50 f1.8 for $874 - about the price of an XT. And Ritz has the 20mm for $400.

[mcenut]

I thought long and hard about which camera to buy before selecting the 20D over the Rebel and Rebel XT.

In the end the only thing that made any difference to me was features. The 20D just did more. I'm the type of person that will stop using a camera when I reach the limits of it's design. I was affraid that I would get the Rebel (or XT) and love it for a while but then loathe it when I found something it couldn't do but the 20D could.

If you are not that type of person, then buy the Rebel and be happy with it. The extra money you put into the glass will provide you with great pictures and much enjoyment.

[Rhys]

I was thinking along the lines of: I get the cheaper camera and use that and try to make money from the photos. I get decent lenses with it and use the images produced to make money in order to buy a better camera (and the DReb then becomes the backup camera).

I can't really see any features that I'd miss. I'm used to the manual school of photography where there's no automation although I have fully embraced the age of digital with my digital compacts.

I'm after larger images, better lenses and less shutter delay plus of course, expandability.

[jamison55]

I shot my first few weddings with my Digital Rebel before upgrading to the 20D, and got great results. I still shoot about 30% of the shots at the average wedding with my DReb. Given your cloice, I'd probably go with the better glass.

My main reason for upgrading was the flash metering. I had a really hard time getting good flash exposure with my DReb. I now only use it with fast primes for available light shots

The 20D (and I assume the XT) is a flash photography champ!

[TenD]

The 300D is a very good camera, and will take great photographs with good glass. The hack will become necessary as you grow with your camera. The thing that would bother me the most would be no AI servo in the creative modes. The hack would correct this.

[Chucko]

I just bought a 10D used for under $700. It's my first EOS camera. Now I get to play the Lens Lottery myself!

I suspect I'm going to start with a 50/1.8 and grow from there. Unfortunately the 10D doesn't take EF-S lenses, so the 10-22 zoom is not an option. That rather limits my choices on the wide end of things.

[TenD]

I have never needed ultra wides. I never had anything wider than a 28 with my film camera, I think its all in the manner you compose. I rarely find myself limited on the wide end of things, but I frequently wish for more tele. I am still shooting with a 10D and I haven't seen a need to upgrade. If you think you need an ultra wide, Sigma makes a 12-24 full frame lens.

[Rhys]

I shot my first few weddings with my Digital Rebel before upgrading to the 20D, and got great results. I still shoot about 30% of the shots at the average wedding with my DReb. Given your cloice, I'd probably go with the better glass.

My main reason for upgrading was the flash metering. I had a really hard time getting good flash exposure with my DReb. I now only use it with fast primes for available light shots

The 20D (and I assume the XT) is a flash photography champ!

How did you conquor flash with the 300D/DReb? Are you saying the built-in flash can't control its output correctly or just that external flashes can be problematic?

[jamison55]

How did you conquor flash with the 300D/DReb? Are you saying the built-in flash can't control its output correctly or just that external flashes can be problematic?

The fault is with the ETTL metering system. I found it to be somewhat inconsistent. Basically, the flash metering is tied to the active focus point. Let's say you use the center focus point. You focus on a bride's face and lock focus by half depressing the shutter button. Then you recompose the shot. The focus point is now on her white dress, and the flash underexposes. I was (and still am) using a Sigma EF 500 DG Super. I switched to a manual flash for a while (a Sunpak 383) and got a better results at the expense of convenience (all of the camera's settings had to be manual). There are a couple of workarounds for the ETTL. One is to zoom in on the skin, press the FEL button, then zoom our and take the shot. The other is to make sure that the active focus point is always on a patch of skin (i.e. compose using the other focus points).

The Ettl-II system of th 20D/XT has solved most of these issues. I now set my camera to "P" and the flash exposures are perfect almost every time with the Sigma flash.

[Rhys]

The fault is with the ETTL metering system. I found it to be somewhat inconsistent. Basically, the flash metering is tied to the active focus point. Let's say you use the center focus point. You focus on a bride's face and lock focus by half depressing the shutter button. Then you recompose the shot. The focus point is now on her white dress, and the flash underexposes. I was (and still am) using a Sigma EF 500 DG Super. I switched to a manual flash for a while (a Sunpak 383) and got a better results at the expense of convenience (all of the camera's settings had to be manual). There are a couple of workarounds for the ETTL. One is to zoom in on the skin, press the FEL button, then zoom our and take the shot. The other is to make sure that the active focus point is always on a patch of skin (i.e. compose using the other focus points).

The Ettl-II system of th 20D/XT has solved most of these issues. I now set my camera to "P" and the flash exposures are perfect almost every time with the Sigma flash.


Does using manual focus get around that glitch? Is it easy to use MF on the 300D? Is there any indication as to when you're in focus?

[mcenut]

Is it easy to use MF on the 300D? Is there any indication as to when you're in focus?

I can't speak for the 300D, but the 20D doesn't have any visual indicators that you are in or out of focus other than the image doesn't look out of focus.

My old manual focus Canon had a great indicator to let you know if you were in focus or not.

I've never used a Canon EOS film camera. So I don't know what manual focusing indicator they use.

[jamison55]

The Manual flash was much more consistent than the ETTL, but it was never spot on...always 1/3 of a stop or so in either direction. The ETTL was inconsistent, but when it was on, it was perfect. My main reason for going back to the ETTL flash on the 20D - and it works really well! I think knowing what I know now about the ETTL system, I might be able to make it work a little better on the DReb, but have never taken the chance to try.

As far as a focus indicator, that depends on whether you are using the MF mode on AF lenses, or are using older MF lenses with an adapter. If you are MF'ing on your AF lenses, the red box will flash when the camera thinks the image is in focus (just like it does in AF mode). If you are using MF lenses with an adapter, you just have to make your best judgement as there is no focus indicator. It can be done, though, as the success I had on my trip to San Francisco this week demonstrates: http://www.pbase.com/jamisonwexlerphoto/sf_experiment

**All pictures in the gallery were taken with vintage MF lenses on my DReb.

[Rhys]

Hmm. The DReb sounds as though it has a few problems but it sounds a pretty good camera.

If my budget is really constrained I'll probably plump for a DReb otherwise it'll be an XT.

Which lenses do you prefer? I was thinking of going for primes on the basis that they're higher quality than the low-end zooms and cost just about the same. Beside that, I never really felt with a 35 - 70 zoom that I was using it at anything other than 35 or 70. Essentially, I had a 2-position lens that gave different optical aberations at each end.

In terms of lenses, I was thinking 18/19/20 mm for the wide angle then 28mm for a standard lens then 50mm for portrait and maybe 85 for a telephoto.

I've read a lot about lenses and it seems that it's very much a case of buying a lens and testing it. All manufacturers seem to have poor quality control when it comes to lenses. I've read comments about bad Canon, Sigma, Tamron and Tokina lenses. Equally, I've read good comments about them so it seems on balance that QC is a bit lacking.

What makes things more interesting is that the world seems to have fallen in love with zoom lenses. It's hard to find fixed focal length lenses these days. The big problem is - no lens review sites nor anywhere that I can see all the available lenses.

[24Peter]

Jamison - amazing shots as always.

I'm curious if you shot this one handheld:

http://www.pbase.com/jamisonwexlerphoto/image/44451714

The tag says shutter speed was 1/15th. That would make you the "Handheld King" in my book. :)

[jamison55]

Thanks Peter, and as a matter of fact I handheld all of the shots in that gallery. I don't know about "handholding king"...some days I just think I am steadier than others. The pint of Bodingtons I had just consumed may have helped a bit!

Seriously, though, I do seem to be able to take a steadier photo with the DReb and the tiny MF primes than I can with the 20D and a heavy zoom. That particular shot was with my Super Takumar 55 f1.8. Some of the fisheye shots further down in the gallery were handheld at 1/2 sec (having an 8mm focal length helps in that department). This experiment has really made me a believer in the old MF primes. I can really see why quite a few folks on FM are selling off their collections of "L" lenses to buy Zeiss MF primes.

I actually had a thought to buy a D30 and one of the split circle focusing screens for use as an MF only camera. I think I'll wait 'till I can buy one for $300...

[aparmley]

Tips to help handholding-

1. Avoid that double expresso before heading off to shoot...

LOL thats all for now, stay tuned for more! :D

I actually made that mistake one morning... I was heading to the MO Botanical Gardens and I had two nice strong cups of coffee before I left ... You can say I was a wee bit shakey hand holding for those low light macro shots...