Beware Canon service centres

[Rhys]

I emailed Canon recently, attempting to get information from the horse's mouth about the compatibility of my flashgun (which was pretty darned expensive - a week's wage - when I bought it) and which is still in pristine condition. Thus far I have not had anything from them and shall be posting a printed copy of their pathetic excuses and run-around to their MD later today.

I asked:
"I'm considering purchasing a Digital Rebel XT. I have a Metz 45 CT1 hammerhead flashgun that I've been using since around 1990. I've heard strange rumours that the camera circuitry will fail if I use my Metz on it. Is this true or false."

Non-reply:
" Thank you for your inquiry on the EOS Digital Rebel. We value you as a Canon customer and appreciate the opportunity to assist you. We are sorry to inform you that Canon does not supply specifications to or test with other manufacturers products. Therefore, there is always the possibility that they will not interact properly with our cameras. Accordingly, in order to realize the maximum performance of this unit and thereby achieve the highest possible image quality, we recommend that you use Canon brand name accessories. They are designed and manufactured to match the special qualities of your Canon product.

For best results, the EOS Digital Rebel XT should be used with EX series Canon Speedlite flashes. To view our current Speedlite lineup, please visit the following website:

http://www.canoneos.com/

For further assistance please call our Canon Pre-sales Department at (800)652-2666 between 8:00 am and midnight ET, seven days a week. The
Pre-sales agents will assist you with product information and dealer locations. "


This evasion continued for several emails before finally I told them that due to their policy of lousy customer service, misleading answers and non-answers that I'd never consider buying any of their products. Even that seemed to have little to no effect.

I can only advise people about to purchase a Canon system that if their pre-sales support is supposed to attract customers then their after sales support must be an abomination.

[Ray Schnoor]

I don't understand how this is a non-reply. They stated that they do not test their cameras with other manufacturers equipment. Now while this is not entirely true(they obviously test with other manufacturers CF cards), just how many different speedlights are you suggesting they test their cameras with?

Are you suggesting that they purchase and test any speedlight they get an inquiry about. Unless they are willing to do this, how could they possibly give you an answer other than what they have already given you.

Yes, they could look at the specs of your speedlight(voltages, etc...) and give you an educated guess without actually making the tests. They would then be trusting the testing that other companies perform on their own products which may or may not be as reliable as doing it themselves. You would then probably want to hold them liable for any damage if it did occur.

Ray.

[Ray Schnoor]

It also seems to me that the one to contact about about the compatibility of the speedlight is the maker of the speedlight. Canon makes their cameras to be compatible with their own lenses and speedlights. Metz, on the other hand, makes their speedlights to be compatible with cameras made by other manufacturers. They should then do testing for the compatibility of their speedlights with other manufacturers cameras.

Ray.

[David Metsky]

I agree with Ray, this is all you can expect from any camera manufacturer. What did you want them to say?

Their only choices are:
1) We don't think it will work, but don't hold us to it or
2) We think it might work, but don't hold us to it.

Neither of which would put you any closer to the answer you are looking for, and it exposes them to risk of damages or of driving you away from a purchase. They're in a no win situation.

-dave-

[Rhys]

I did ask them for compatibility information in terms of volatges etc (which are available outside the US but apparently not - in the US). They refused to answer. Basically they said Canon won't work with non Canon branded items which is nonsense.

Incidentally, I have discovered elsewhere that 4v is the standard for modernish flashguns and cameras. There is a converter available but it's $40. I can rig up something for a lot less than that - probably about $5 if that (including the components, 10 minutes soldering and some cheap components.

It's a shame: Nikon and Canon have now thoroughly irked me with their nonsense. That E-300 is looking much more interesting!

[Ray Schnoor]

"Can the mecablitz 45 CT 1 also be used with the new autofocus cameras?

Regretfully, the Metz mecablitz 45-CT 1 does not yet have the connecting capabilities of the Metz SCA adapter system. Consequently, no corresponding adapter is available for combination with autofocus cameras. The Metz mecablitz 45-CT 1 can therefore only be connected to such cameras with a standard synchronising cable.

Furthermore, it is necessary to note that Metz mecablitz 45-CT 1 units featuring a model number that is smaller than 534 000 are fitted with a so-called high-voltage ignition circuit. These flash units must not be directly connected to modern cameras as this could even damage the camera!

All other flash units of the Metz mecablitz 45 CT and 45 CL series feature a low-voltage ignition circuit in keeping with the current standard."

http://www.metz.de/en/photo_electronics/faq/19/148/show.html

Ray.

[Rhys]

Thanks Ray. I know my flash is modern. I thought it used 24v rather than 4v but I could be wrong. When I'm next in Britain I'll check it and bring it back with me to the US.

[D70FAN]

I did ask them for compatibility information in terms of volatges etc (which are available outside the US but apparently not - in the US). They refused to answer. Basically they said Canon won't work with non Canon branded items which is nonsense.

Incidentally, I have discovered elsewhere that 4v is the standard for modernish flashguns and cameras. There is a converter available but it's $40. I can rig up something for a lot less than that - probably about $5 if that (including the components, 10 minutes soldering and some cheap components.

It's a shame: Nikon and Canon have now thoroughly irked me with their nonsense. That E-300 is looking much more interesting!

So now the burning question... Have you asked Olympus if the Metz flash will work?

[Norm in Fujino]

So now the burning question... Have you asked Olympus if the Metz flash will work?

Well, it's a topsy-turvy world we live in. I ended up buying a certain mfgr's camera because I already had the flash! :p

Uh, against the chance that anyone will take this too seriously, that wasn't the only reason . . .

[Ray Schnoor]

So now the burning question... Have you asked Olympus if the Metz flash will work?

I was thinking the same thing, George.

Ray.

[D70FAN]

Well, it's a topsy-turvy world we live in. I ended up buying a certain mfgr's camera because I already had the flash! :p

Uh, against the chance that anyone will take this too seriously, that wasn't the only reason . . .

Nah. That's a perfectly legitamate reason. And I wasn't picking on Oly. I was just trying to point out that Oly probably won't confirm or deny capatability with Metz flashes either.

[Mark_48]

For what it's worth and maybe you already know of this site:

http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html

Mark.....

[DiJ]

Metz 45ct1 -600v
wow! I could make a weapon out of this if I want to!

[Rhys]

Metz 45ct1 -600v
wow! I could make a weapon out of this if I want to!

Actually, mine is probably the later version - the lower voltage version.

Incidentally, inside a flashgun, the trigger wire for the xenon tube carries 30,000 volts.

[DiJ]

Yours maybe 218v as reported by the users. I wont risk it with any modern AF camera.

[Rhys]

Yours maybe 218v as reported by the users. I wont risk it with any modern AF camera.

Actually, I think it's a lot less. It's probably 4 - 6v because as I recall, it's designed to work with AE cameras like the F301, F3 etc.

[MissJezabelle]

FYI I just read in my owners manual that if you use ANY non-canon accessories (lenses, flashes, even the CF Card) it voids your warrenty. WTF is that about. Hateful but true.

[Ray Schnoor]

FYI I just read in my owners manual that if you use ANY no-canon accessories (lenses, flashes, even the CF Card) it voids your warrenty. WTF is that about. Hateful but true.

I doubt if it includes the CF card since Canon doesn't make them. You wouldn't be able to use your camera in that case.

Ray.

[Norm in Fujino]

FYI I just read in my owners manual that if you use ANY no-canon accessories (lenses, flashes, even the CF Card) it voids your warrenty. WTF is that about. Hateful but true.

What about lens cleaning tissue?

Ah, well, another way to get you to buy fully into their system.

[Rhys]

FYI I just read in my owners manual that if you use ANY no-canon accessories (lenses, flashes, even the CF Card) it voids your warrenty. WTF is that about. Hateful but true.

So the tripod, flash, batteries, camera strap, lens, lens cap, camera bag, CF card and lens-wipes must all be canon? Well, poo. Canon doesn't make half of that lot! They contract out and stick their name on them. As far as I can see, this must be on the US warranty - it wouldn't hold much water in a British courtroom nor under British (and european) consumer legislation.

[MissJezabelle]

I doubt if it includes the CF card since Canon doesn't make them. You wouldn't be able to use your camera in that case.

Ray.Hey don't shoot the messenger. I myself have never ever seen a canon CF card, but the book says they reccomend canon CF cards lol. That said. I use sigma and tamron lenses, and a pretec card lol

[minsik]

This may be good for you mate.

I have a sunpak autozoom 4000 (hammer head thumper) and I could not use it with my g2 but after reading this I am happy to use it with the 350d.
just take a multimeter and measure the voltage with a digital voltmeter preferably, across the trigger plug that comes from the flash. If it is below the 250v with a fully charged set of batteries and after fully changing the caps, leave the flash run a couple of minutes fully charged, then I have taken the risk according to the good advice below. Any doubts then don't use it!
Your risk and not mine. (but again with good technical info below I took that risk.) Lots of flash and as long as below 1/200th sec all is ok.

My sunpak has a sensor that sits on the hot shoe, I use an adapter for the hotshoe contacts to the flash trigger cable. My voltage is about 180-200v.

After many shots all is a1 and ok.

Chuck Westfall, Director/Media & Customer Relationship, Canon USA, advises as follows regarding the flash sync circuit of the EOS Digital Rebel XT (EOS 350D):

*****
The EOS Digital Rebel XT uses a modified version of the EOS 20D's shutter unit. Consequently, acceptable trigger circuit voltage for both cameras is the same, I.e., 250 volts. Except for the original Digital Rebel, all current EOS digital SLRs (I.e., EOS-1Ds Mark II, EOS-1D Mark II, EOS 20D and EOS Digital Rebel XT) generate their X-sync signals electronically rather than mechanically. This is why they have higher acceptable trigger circuit voltage ratings than earlier models like the D30, D60, 10D and original Digital Rebel. These older models cannot be modified to achieve a higher trigger circuit voltage rating, since such a modification would require a different shutter mechanism as well as a complete redesign of the supporting circuitry.
*****

Best regards,

Doug
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