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D70FAN
05-12-2005, 07:22 PM
OK. Let's see if this one flies.

What RAW processor do you use? and why?

TheObiJuan
05-12-2005, 07:43 PM
I use RSE. I used to use C1 but found RSE loads faster and is faster to do quick conversions. I don't like ACR for some reason. :confused:

I have not tried bibble though.

Here is a tip.
When working with a raw file that has some under/over exposure, do some digital blending by overexposing a copy, then underexposing a copy, then open all three in photoshop and tweak the layers as necessary. I have found that I this works great when I do not take the initiative to do exposure bracketing.
RAW sure is great!

jeisner
05-12-2005, 07:54 PM
OK. Let's see if this one flies.

What RAW processor do you use? and why?

Until last night I was using CS2, before that Bibble (well for the demo period) and CS before that... But last night I tried C1 as they added DS support, and I like it a lot, I will keep using it for a while, I think I will buy it from my testing so far...

I just find CS a bit dull, and it takes more effort to 'bring the photos to life'... I know it sounds vague, it is hard to explain... Bibble and C1 just feel better...

Your right Ob1, C1 is a little slow, although not as slow as Photoshop...

Bluedog
05-12-2005, 08:18 PM
I'm preferring RSE @ the moment for the ability to really tweak the image details. The built in Noise Cleaner is nice for ISO 1600 images. The Canon DPP is quick but quite limited in what you can do. I prefer to get my RAW stuff as close as possible without relying too much on PSE 2.

Phase One LE works very good too but maybe not for $59.00 ... :(

D70FAN
05-12-2005, 09:24 PM
I have just started to use Nikon Capture (free trial copy) and the one really nice feature, for Sigma 18-125 users is the de-vignetting feature. Plus it is actually pretty darned good for Nikon users.

I have used the Adobe RAW plug-in, RSE, and even IRfanview. I need to use Nikon Capture a little more before making the $99 commitment.

Norm in Fujino
05-13-2005, 09:14 AM
OK. Let's see if this one flies.
What RAW processor do you use? and why?

Sorry I haven't been more active here recently; between work and the learning curve (yes, RAW processors!), I haven't had much time. In addition, I've promised myself not to take too many more pictures before I get a new workflow established, since with the addition of new RAW and TIFF files has caused my hard disc real estate to shrink like the national budget surplus.

Currently, I'm experimenting with only two processors: RSE, currently free, as everyone knows, and Silkypix, a Japanese program that has gotten quite a bit of exposure over on the DP Review Oly SLR forum. I decided that since I read Japanese, I'd be foolish not to investigate it a bit closer. So I got the preview version (good for two weeks' use) several weeks ago, and as of a few hours ago, I plunked down my money for the registered version--but I haven't done much more than play with it.
I have also experimented with Olympus's Master--the free photo-management and conversion program that came with my E-300, but its conversion features are really only for folks who want the minumum of features--in fact, my real feeling is that if someone is satisfied with Master, they shouldn't be shooting RAW anyway, and should go back to JPEG, since the E-300's are quite good (so why am I here? :confused: ).

Since I mentioned Oly Master (I'm using the Japanese version), my specific complaints about it are these:

1. Slow as molasses in January.
If you want to move an adjustment slider say ten points in one direction, you apparently* have to wait for the computer to update each incremental unit along the way. That takes about five seconds each on my computer. By the time you’ve gotten to your destination, you’ve forgotten what the original looked like, making it hard to make any subjective comparison in your mind regarding the changes.
<*I say “apparently” since I haven’t read the instructions, and don’t know if there’s a way to speed things up. I’ll have to look into that, but the default is SLOW. >

2. The range of controls is simply too trivial. You can’t really adjust much.
I should point out that the Master software package has drawn praise for its other functions (photo organization, etc.), but at this point it doesn’t fulfill my needs for a RAW converter.

Since I’m still firmly on the upside of the learning curve, I'm going to stick with the two programs RSE and Silkypix for the present, since I feel it’s probably counter-productive to continually shift between lots of new programs (especially when they cost $$$) until I learn the basics of how to operate at least one or two properly. Which at this point means RSE and Silkypix as I read through the manuals and try and get a hold of just what's going on.

One difficulty is that both these programs (and others obviously) provide lots of controls, but they’re implemented differently, so it’s hard to know just how to get the same kind of results from them. For example, RSE has a “fill light” control which is great for bringing up the shadows in underexposed shots. Silkypix doesn’t have that specific control, although it has other controls that are missing on RSE.

What I like about these programs:
1. Both are relatively fast. RSE is far and away the speediest, but there are things that can be done with Silkypix defaults to speed up the update process, so it’s not bad. For me, one important feature is the ability to swing rapidly through great shifts of slider range to see the overall impact on the appearance, thus giving me a better subjective idea of the basic place to set the slider (then I edge up on the final point using fine increments).

2. Both provide a good thumbnail view that allows me to view and flag shots for the initial triage stage. It’s fairly easy to switch between views, although RSE has the advantage there. Silkypix doesn’t provide sufficient keyboard shortcuts IMO for operations I like to do. But it’s still not at all bad.

3. At this stage of experimentation Silkypix seems to make it easier to achieve the colors I like, particularly in the greens. For some reason, I have trouble getting RSE to produce really nice greens that satisfy me. I’m still experimenting, though, and anticipating further updates.

4. According to at least one Japanese review (http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/review/2005/01/05/692.html) I’ve read, Silkypix has a better sharpening algorithm than either Olympus Master or Olympus Studio (limited to testing images from the E-300) .

What I don’t like:
1. I’ve already mentioned the bit of trouble I’ve had with colors in RSE. I admit, I’ve used only JPEG the past five years so RAW is all new to me, and the difficulty may just be my own unfamiliarity with how to best operate and utilize these programs--which is why I’m trying to spend some “quality time” learning more about the process before rushing to rash criticism.

2. In RSE, I don’t care too much for the “appearance” control, since the settings are implemented entirely behind the scenes, and the user is given no idea of how the results are arrived at. In that sense, Silkypix is nice, since when you select an “appearance” setting, it is reflected in visible changes of all the other relevant controls’ slider positions.

3. I also wish RSE had the ability to display JPEGS and TIFFs in the thumbnails. I understand the rationale for not doing so (“this is a RAW converter, not a JPEG handler!”), but I still wish they were shown for one reason: In this testing stage, at least, I still sometimes shoot RAW + SHQ (JPEG) and during my initial culling process it would be nice to have the option of deleting all the frames associated with a given bad shot, instead of just the RAW images. As it is, I have to make a note of what shots I’m deleting and then go back and delete the JPEGs manually.

In RSE's defense, I should say that the addition of Michael Tapes to the Pixmantec team has already proved an important step. He's answered a number of questions on the RSE forum regarding specific features of the program, so I'm assuming that things can only get better. Assuming the improvements keep on coming and it's competitively priced, I'll rush to buy the commercial version when it appears.

Cold Snail
05-13-2005, 09:27 AM
RSE and Photochop CS2 are the main ones, I like RSE just for fast viewing of the days shots, but prefer Photochop's Bridge as it's less hassle if it needs editing.

I'm still a fan of PSP, but the RAW converter isn't one of it's best points.

D70FAN
05-15-2005, 08:27 AM
There is a new e-book out from Uwe Steinmeuller called The Art of RAW Conversion if anyone is interested. I am ordering it just to see if it's worth $39.

I have a short version that came with my D70 iNova e-book but need more help so...

Here is the link.

http://www.outbackphoto.com/booklets/dop3002/DOP3002.html

sarcazmo
05-15-2005, 02:53 PM
CS2.

Will be picking up Scott Kelby's new CS2 book ASAP. Also Bruce Fraser's Real World Camera RAW.

A great plugin is Fred Miranda's Velvia Vision. Really makes those photos 'pop'!

palmbook
05-15-2005, 04:33 PM
Nikon Capture - The best for your NEFs :)

Not only has it rich features, but also the calculation and manipulation is very well done.

I love D-lighting :)

D70FAN
05-15-2005, 06:46 PM
Nikon Capture - The best for your NEFs :)

Not only has it rich features, but also the calculation and manipulation is very well done.

I love D-lighting :)

Thanks. Yes I agree. Looks like NC is worth the price of admission.

Bluedog
05-15-2005, 08:17 PM
Well how 'bout you guys posting some results using the Nikon program. Makes me wanna see what I might be missing.

Norm in Fujino
05-15-2005, 08:23 PM
There is a new e-book out from Uwe Steinmeuller called The Art of RAW Conversion if anyone is interested. I am ordering it just to see if it's worth $39.http://www.outbackphoto.com/booklets/dop3002/DOP3002.html

Since Uwe is one of the developers of RSE, sounds like a good one to have. Thanks for the lead.

palmbook
05-15-2005, 09:41 PM
Well how 'bout you guys posting some results using the Nikon program. Makes me wanna see what I might be missing.
No image adjustment applied; I just pop the photo up and convert.

First guy is from Nikon Capture 4.2. The image size is well over 100KB that I have to reduce the quality :eek:

http://www.thaidphoto.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=73961&stc=1.jpg

The next contender is C1 Pro. Seems that this folk can't read all settings from NEFs, such as Color Space. The image size is 90.2KB (larger the file, finer the details)

http://www.thaidphoto.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=73962&stc=1.jpg

The last competitor comes the famous free RAWessential. The image size is roughly 92KB.

http://www.thaidphoto.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=73964&stc=1.jpg

Bluedog
05-15-2005, 09:58 PM
With my monitor resolution @ 1280X1024 I can't tell too much with those images as they are a little small. The first one looks too dark form what I can tell? I've got a high speed cable connection so put up some higher res. stuff if you can.

palmbook
05-15-2005, 11:33 PM
I'm sorry, but I did this set of comparison some time ago.

Now I have uninstalled some programs; therefore I can't make another comparison. But if I have enough time, I might re-install the programs again.

IMO, the first picture is perfectly exposed. It's higher contrast that might induce some people to think that it's underexposed :)

speaklightly
05-16-2005, 08:36 AM
Palmbook-

Yes, I agree, the first photo has finer tonal qualities and a bit more color. That is a nice comparison. Thanks very much for posting those esamples.

Sarah Joyce

erichlund
05-16-2005, 09:45 AM
A little thing I discovered last night. Everyone speaks about how fast RAWShooter Essentials is. However, it does slow down a lot if you load a lot of photos directly from the CF card in the reader. I does keep a goodly amount of information around, because after I had looked at all the photos and started setting priorities (1-2-3-Trash), it started working much faster on followup viewing.

On the other hand, Nikon Capture, slow as it is, does not seem to slow down further due to volume or source. While I really like RSE's priority workflow system, I don't care for it's controls as much as NC, either in the set of controls or way they handle. I'm also not a big fan of the unconventional interface in RSE.

Bluedog
05-16-2005, 10:20 AM
I guess ones computer memory could equate to slowdown too. I've got 2 512MB's Corsair XMS Extreme Memory running in Dual Channel so I don't see any slow down in RSE.

Charles C. Weston
05-16-2005, 02:54 PM
I have used RSE, PS Elements 3.0 and ACDSee 7 and have found that when processing RAW NEF files I get a different exsposure result with each one. Then I bought Nikon Capture and found that it processes NEF files consistently and gives me the exposure that I expect with the shooting parameters that I have used. I still like to finish up in PS Elements before printing Mainly because I have not yet taken the trouble to learn Capture thoroughly.

D70FAN
05-16-2005, 04:25 PM
I have used RSE, PS Elements 3.0 and ACDSee 7 and have found that when processing RAW NEF files I get a different exsposure result with each one. Then I bought Nikon Capture and found that it processes NEF files consistently and gives me the exposure that I expect with the shooting parameters that I have used. I still like to finish up in PS Elements before printing Mainly because I have not yet taken the trouble to learn Capture thoroughly.

That seems to be about the standard flow. Check and correct camera settings in Nikon Capture (or RAW processor of choice) and finish up in PS or Elements.

Bluedog
05-16-2005, 11:10 PM
Well tonight I've been messing around with the White Balance Option in RSE using the little eyedropper tool and have gotten some pretty impressive results. Usually just determining a true white or black object with one or two clicks and the image looks very realistic.

Bluedog
07-14-2005, 06:08 AM
Dang this thread turned kinda cold ... :confused:

D70FAN
07-14-2005, 07:00 AM
Dang this thread turned kinda cold ... :confused:

So time to warm it up...

Has anyone tried the new dyanmic range tool in CS2?

ekk
07-14-2005, 10:51 AM
So time to warm it up...

Has anyone tried the new dyanmic range tool in CS2?

is that within the raw converter of cs2 or within cs2 itself?

Bluedog
07-16-2005, 09:43 AM
Pixmantec has an update on their web site that they'll soon be releasing a premium version of RAW Shooter Essentials 2005, adding some features not available in the beta free version. This will probably be the one conversion software that I won't mind paying the extra money for.

Get Ready (http://www.pixmantec.com/index2.html)

D70FAN
07-16-2005, 07:08 PM
is that within the raw converter of cs2 or within cs2 itself?

It's a plug-in as far as I know. I don't have CS2 (which should be a free upgrade to CS but isn't). :(

MatH
08-19-2005, 06:25 AM
I'm using latest Raw Shooter Essentials and Capture One Pro 3.71 since I got my Pentax *Ist DS a week ago. And here is what I have to say:

What I like about Raw Shooter Essentials is its simplicity, ease of use and the fact that it can read more pixels from PEF (dont know about other formats). Jpegs from RSE have resolution of 2019x3039 (I think). The picture isn't resized, bit has a couple of pixels bigger "field of view" (default is 3008x2008), what makes *Ist DS a 6.1MP camera.

Being blinded by the pixel count I was absolutely positive, that I was going to stick to RSE, but after comparing some more shots I noticed that Capture One Pro has better collor ballance and cleaner details while the workflow is just about as easy as with RSE.

So I guess I'll be using C1 Pro or perhaps C1 LE in the future. There is just one issue. I've taken a picture of sun behind the clouds casting sunbeams and C1 Pro renders it as if there was not enought colours to make smooth color and light transitions. It looks like GIF with 25% dithering If U know what I mean. Still looking into the issue.

D Thompson
08-19-2005, 10:42 AM
I'm using latest Raw Shooter Essentials and Capture One Pro 3.71 since I got my Pentax *Ist DS a week ago.So I guess I'll be using C1 Pro or perhaps C1 LE in the future. There is just one issue. I've taken a picture of sun behind the clouds casting sunbeams and C1 Pro renders it as if there was not enought colours to make smooth color and light transitions. It looks like GIF with 25% dithering If U know what I mean. Still looking into the issue.
MatH - I have found that some shots will turn out better depending on the converter used and that you might want to keep a couple of converters. I have Canon DPP & RSE & used C1 LE until the demo ran out. I like all 3 for various reasons. For my use, I seem to prefer DPP for skin tones and most shots. I have found that RSE works a lot better if I have underexposed by a couple of stops. If you don't like the results of one, then try another to see what happens. It can kinda be a pain, but the results can be worth it.

Dennis

D70FAN
09-02-2005, 04:52 PM
So yesterday I was cruising the Software Tools board, and noticed an entry from lynchbird (for details go to the Software Tools board).

GIMP now has a Photoshop plug-in, plug-in, so I'm thinking, Hey! maybe Camera RAW 3.1 will run. I installed everything as described, and... nodda. Dismay and disappointment set in. But hey GIMP turned out to be a pretty nice FREE post processing tool, for those with a dSLR and no money left over... it's a start.

But today Bonzo saved the day with a compatible plug-in called UFRaw, which works pretty well, and is very quick. All of this info is available on the Software Tools board.

It was just fun to try something new, and really FREE. I will give it a more thorough shakedown this weekend, but don't wait for me. Give it a try.

Thanks again to lynchbird and Bonzo for these leads.

Norm in Fujino
09-04-2005, 02:11 AM
Dang this thread turned kinda cold ... :confused:

Awright, I'll bite. Silkypix has come out with an upgrade (vers 2.0) and it's available in English (or Engrish, perhaps ;) ) now. Notable additions for me include: highlight controller, cropping tool, perspective/lens aberation correction, good NR engine, and a delightful "fine color controller" that makes it a joy to fine tune specific bands of color. The additions make it more than a mere RAW developer, and raise it to the level of a (nearly) fully equipped one-stop post-production tool. No more having to develop RAW and then still have to use PS or PSP to up the saturation or tweak the colors, and for most uses, it will take the place of NeatImage NR as well.

The upgrade price is 6200 yen (about $45 US), and full price for first timers (those who didn't get version 1) is 16,000 yen (about $145 US). IMO, the depth and breadth of additions is what makes this upgrade worth the price. It's almost as fast and intuitive as RSE, and head and shoulders in terms of color rendition.

Soo. . . just to warm up this thread a bit, let me show a few examples of what the program can do. All photos were taken with the Oly e-300 and the lenses indicated.

First, an example of the distortion correction function; this was taken with the Oly 14-54 mm lens at 14mm, equivalent to 28mm on 35FF film:
http://www2.gol.com/users/nhavens/resource/P4210875_n1.jpg
In this shot, notice that the newel or roof-support post at right is slanted in toward the left. The architectural distortion correction tool fixes that in a jiff, as follows:
http://www2.gol.com/users/nhavens/resource/P4210875mod1.jpg

Next, a quick comparison of in-camera Olympus HQ jpegs with the results produced by Silkypix 2.0 and RawShooter Essentials. These are Kudzu vines in bloom all around our house; the shot was taken with the Oly 50mm f2.0 macro, f8.0 @ 1/6s (tripod). (One other note: I developed these without noticing that this frame has a bit of wind blur due to the slow shutter; I have another frame without the blur, but since these are already uploaded to my website, I'll use them anyway; sorry).

First the straight-from-the-camera HQ shot:
http://www2.gol.com/users/nhavens/resource/P9041584a.jpg


And next Silkypix 2.0:
http://www2.gol.com/users/nhavens/resource/P9041584SP1a.jpg


And finally, RSE:
http://www2.gol.com/users/nhavens/resource/P9041584-01a.jpg

The difference is really dramatic; Oly and Silkypix come out virtually spot on, while RSE is just plain WRONG. Not only at the defaults--which were painful to even look at, but even when tweaked heavily in the attempt to come as close as posslble. In fact, I had to do very little to get the Silkypix version to closely approximate the Olympus colors--I did give it a bit more saturation since I left in-camera saturation at neutral.

I hasten to reiterate, "Your Mileage May Vary," specifically, the RSE developing engine seems to work better on some kinds of shots, and with some makes of RAW files, than it does on other shots or with Olympus ORF files in general. So it pays to test each of these possibilities before assuming anything from a test like this. Silkypix is available in a limited-time full-featured trial for free, so it doesn't cost anything to check it out. It's available at Silkypix (http://www.isl.co.jp/SILKYPIX/english/).

(NTS, I have no connection to the Silkypix people or company)

Spot focus
09-06-2005, 07:16 PM
Being brand new to DSLR and the RAW format I see I have a whole lot of learning to do :confused: Reading some of the other threads I find that my Pentax ist DS dosent have one of the best jpeg in camera coverters,so I hope to become at least proficant working in RAW :rolleyes:

Norm in Fujino
09-06-2005, 08:32 PM
Being brand new to DSLR and the RAW format I see I have a whole lot of learning to do :confused: Reading some of the other threads I find that my Pentax ist DS dosent have one of the best jpeg in camera coverters,so I hope to become at least proficant working in RAW :rolleyes:

I've read reviews that say the same, which makes it all the more important to get a good RAW converter. I'd try the one that came bundled with your Pentax first, and then compare it to other free or trial versions available, foremost among them RawShooter Essentials from Pixmantec (RSE (http://www.pixmantec.com/index2.html)), which is a free beta version of a (hoped for) commercial version to appear "real soon now" :rolleyes:

I'd download RSE immediately and begin playing with it, and also (this is very important) register at the Pixmantec forums and look for feedback regarding your specific camera. Since this is a beta version, there are lots of users who are coming up with valuable observations and suggestions.

After you get an idea of what RAW conversion is all about, another to try would obviously (IMHO) be the Silkypix 2.0 I referenced in my earlier message; the English version can be downloaded HERE (http://www.isl.co.jp/SILKYPIX/english/). By inputting the trial key code, you get a full-featured version for two weeks' use. Be sure you're ready to give some quality time to experimenting with it before you start, because the two weeks will go by quickly, and there are lots of excellent features on it.
Remember that different RAW developers work better with some cameras than with others; RSE works rather poorly (IMO) with Olympus ORF files (see above), but you may find it more acceptable for your Pentax.

If you're new to RAW developing, it also pays to do some background reading into all the hullaballoo; try these:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/rawtruth1.shtml
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/expose-right.shtml
. . .in fact, heck, just about everything on the Luminous Landscape site is worth reading, particularly the regular columns and the "understanding" series.

There are lots of other big name and small name RAW developers out there, so it pays to try the free/trial versions before plopping your money down.

D70FAN
09-06-2005, 09:34 PM
Being brand new to DSLR and the RAW format I see I have a whole lot of learning to do :confused: Reading some of the other threads I find that my Pentax ist DS dosent have one of the best jpeg in camera coverters,so I hope to become at least proficant working in RAW :rolleyes:

Just out of curiosity, how is the Sigma 18-125 working out on the *ist DS?

Works great on the D70, so just trying to get some feedback.

eastbluffs
09-06-2005, 11:08 PM
Awright, I'll bite. Silkypix ...
Thanks Norm. As usual, you're a wealth of good info!

Spot focus
09-07-2005, 09:36 PM
Thanks for your input Norm, I have downloaded Silk ;) Let the fun Begin :D, I have also looked at luminous landscape


Just out of curiosity, how is the Sigma 18-125 working out on the *ist DS?

Works great on the D70, so just trying to get some feedback.
Here in Australia Sigma 18-125 is the kit lens for ist DS I find a really nice lens, I tend toward manual focus so having seperate focus and zoom ring makes this easy, I have posted a pic in gallery perpetual insect that was taken useing a 2X coverter seems to work fairly well, I like the 18-125 zooming range works nicely for landscape through to portrait work.

jwhite
10-27-2005, 10:20 AM
Pixmantec just release RawShooter Premium 2006 today. List price is $59 till Oct 31. The new features look really promising. I'll be checking it out tonight. Has anyone else tried it out? Opinions?

Norm in Fujino
10-27-2005, 10:32 AM
Pixmantec just release RawShooter Premium 2006 today. List price is $59 till Oct 31. The new features look really promising. I'll be checking it out tonight. Has anyone else tried it out? Opinions?

I'm waiting to hear what the others say. RSE was quite bad :mad: with Olympus E-300 RAW files, so I'm not going to buy until I'm sure they've improved that side. I'm quite satisfied with Silkypix for now. If you get it let us know what you think, changes from RSE, etc.

Vich
10-27-2005, 11:42 AM
Norm - Anyone -

I keep seeing Norm's increadible results with Silkypix. Has anyone tried it on a Canon 20D? I realize that Norm's skill has a lot to do with his results, but all the more reason to follow his footsteps.:)

I'd love to see a shootout between the different RAW solutions.

I'll probably get the new RSE offering since $59 is neglegible compared to the other camera expenses, but other options would be nice.

D70FAN
10-27-2005, 01:02 PM
I agree with Norm on the RSE results and have gone to Nikon Capture 4 for use with my D70 shots. Contrary to popular belief, if you have a Nikon camera with NEF capability, Nikon Capture 4 is well worth the $99 that Nikon charges, and as you would expect, does a much nicer job than most of the RAW processors out there. It also has a couple of very handy features such as D-Lighting and Vignetting correction that save a lot of post processing time.

It's not so much that RSE gives poor results, as much as it takes longer to achieve moderate results.

As for free processing software... I am still experimenting with GIMP and UFRaw, but seem to get better results than with RSE.

Norm in Fujino
10-27-2005, 08:32 PM
Norm - Anyone -

I keep seeing Norm's increadible results with Silkypix. Has anyone tried it on a Canon 20D? I realize that Norm's skill has a lot to do with his results, but all the more reason to follow his footsteps.:)


Thanks for the vote of confidence :o ; I don't claim any special skills with Silkypix--although I do think it's the best third-party solution for Olympus colors right now. And having said that, I'll reemphasize that RSE/RSP seems to be heavily camera-dependent as far as the results go. Over on the Oly dSLR forum at DPReview, some early reports seem to indicate that RSP still hasn't fixed the green/red problem with Olympus ORF files, so I still haven't decided whether I'll be buying into the discount version (available only until Oct 31st). I may decide to get it just for evaluation purposes or a backup to Silkypix, but I do wish they'd get the color handling right.

In that sense, it would make sense to check around on some Canon forums--or on Pixmantec's own forum board--for news on how early adopters are evaluating RSP's handling of Canon 20D files. It might be doing a much better job with those.

Blob
10-29-2005, 05:46 AM
Unrelated to this topic, jeisner your zoo pictures are breathtaking. Each one is fit for framing.

cwphoto
12-29-2005, 04:05 AM
DPP all the way.

Goldfly29
12-31-2005, 03:32 PM
Has anyone tried Aperture (http://www.apple.com/aperture/) yet?

It's Apple's first foray into digital imaging, and it's clearly intended to be a complement to photoshop, not a replacement. There are some reviews out on the web but I don't know if it's worth the $500 for someone who will never get paid for taking photos (mm, azureus (http://azureus.sourceforge.net/)).

zdzislaw
12-31-2005, 04:30 PM
how about 1000$ camera for someone who never get paid for taking photos?
perhaps 1500, how about 2000? and so on,
there are 40$ software, some even come for free,:D
go figure !

happy new year!

kind regards
zdzislaw:)
fuji s 9500

Goldfly29
12-31-2005, 05:04 PM
good point. besides, aperture won't even run with less than a gig of RAM. woah.

(just wanted to know if any pros had good results with it)

zdzislaw
12-31-2005, 07:34 PM
yeah,

the more the better,
8 gig thay say,
plus twin processor....:D
go figure...

kind regards
zdzislaw:)

pip22
03-09-2006, 01:30 PM
I'm currently alternating between RSP and C1 -- with C1 being the better of the two as regards colour from my Oly files, just a pity speed isn't one of it's strong points. Now, I have tried Bibble but I soon ditched it. The preview image was so unstable while adjustments were being made to it that it was frankly appalling. Anyone else tried Bibble and got the same impression?

Pip

ckhatcher
03-17-2006, 09:34 AM
What is RAW?:o

Hannah6776
03-17-2006, 09:52 AM
:confused: Please help me find a new camera...

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HELLO!! :D :D :D :D :D i have never done one of these web chat things before so bare with me because i have no idea what i am doing. I am an Aussie in Austria at the moment and i have been here for less than two months and already lost my camera:eek: :eek: :eek: . It was expensive too and now i need something quick because i am just passing up too many good photo ops in this georgeous country!!!! please help...

Budget

* What budget have you allocated for buying this camera? Please be as specific as possible.

maximum $550 (aussie dollars) i think its about 350 euros...
Size

* What size camera are you looking for? Or does size not matter at all to you?

Something that i can take out easily, especially for sports, outdoors and parties, however i don't want a tiny thing with terrible picture quality... if the pictures arn't good i would rather go a llittle bigger but hopefully small enough to fit in a purse or jacket pocket would be perfect.

Features

How many megapixels will suffice for you?

5 - 8

* What optical zoom will you need? (None, Standard = 3x-4x, Ultrazoom = 10x-12x, Other - Specify)

ultrazoom would be great but 4x will suffice

* How important is “image quality” to you? (Rate using a scale of 1-10)

8-9

Do you care for manual controls?

Yes they are always great when you learn to use your camera properly. I love all the differents settings especially for action shots like skiing (frame by frame) however i don't want to get too technical.

General Usage

* What will you generally use the camera for?

Travelling, parties, sports, outdoor adventures... landscape photography and i try to be artistic sometimes...;-)

* Will you be making big prints of your photos or not?

Yes, especially if i am pleased with the photo quality of the camera.. they make fantastic gifts and are great reminders of days well spent.

Will you be shooting a lot of indoor photos or low light photos?

Yes, i would like to be able to take good night shots for the cities and camping and also for that terrible lighting you get at parties, indoors and at functions such as balls.

Will you be shooting sports and/or action photos?

Yes, for sure.

Miscellaneous

Are there particular brands you like or hate?

I have always used kodak but i don't really have a clue about which brands are more reliable etc so i have no specific preference.

Are there particular models you already have in mind?

I have been looking through the internet for days and there are just so many fantastic cameras out there that i just don't have the faintest idea which is better. I thought the nikon coolpix s5-6 seemed cool because i was drawn to the idea that you can put music to the clips... i think thats great but i read some bad reviews about the coolpix series so now i am back where i started.

(If applicable) Do you need any of the following special features? (Wide Angle, Image Stabilization, Weatherproof, Hotshoe, Rotating LCD)

Image Stabilization is good and a little bit weatherproof is also good... especially for the beach and snow shots...
I would like a quick small camera that doesnt give you those terrible ghost shots!!

Esoterra
03-19-2006, 10:40 AM
There is not a doubt in my mind that nikon Capture is the best program for nef files shot with a nikon camera. At first I was set on RSP2006 because the work flow was so fast and intuitive, but after bearing the pain of the slow speed of NC4 (even with my lightning fast computer) I started to see a huge difference in quality of picture, contrast and curves, detail, colour, sharpness, and much more. The ability to make changes on the computer as if you had made them on the camera before you took the shot is awesome. The only element that you cannot change after the pic is already taken is ISO. NC4 connects driectly with Nikon cameras in regards to settings on the camera and other programs don't offer this as well as giving the best results. The engineers that make the camera have made the software to work hand in hand and give the best results- and this is why I use NC4.

Side note:

For all of you that subscribe to Outdoor Photographer check the March 2006 issue and go to page 74 where there is an article on a new tool in CS2 which makes it possible to gain considerably more tonal range in your raw images. to put it in laymans terms:

Process:

use a tripod take 5-10 pictures with different exposure settings. Make sure you do not move the tripod or camera, and avoid windy days if shooting objects in close range.

In CS2
File > Automate > Merge to HDR

From the popup box you can import the 5-10 pictures and check mark the ones that you want to merge into a final photo. As you check mark the photos the prieview changes so you get an idea which photos work the best. Once you have chosen the pics you can tweak the final image exposure and Gamma, Highlight compression, Equalize histogram, and Local Adaption as well as Curves ect. Click the ok button and voi la (sp).

So I do use CS2 after I have processed my RAW files to my liking.

Hope this info helps you.

Norm in Fujino
03-21-2006, 03:33 AM
There is not a doubt in my mind that nikon Capture is the best program for nef files shot with a nikon camera

All camera manufacturers have an obvious and vested interest in selling software for their cameras, so it's not strange that--by certain measures--the proprietary programs should produce the best results. But it's all relative. Some photographers whose work I admire swear by Olympus Studio for developing Oly RAW files, due to what they see as the most loyal rendition of Olympus color. Studio adds some value also by interacting directly with distortion correction and vignetting correction functions built into the firmware of Zuiko lenses, so you can automatically defish the 8mm fisheye by using Studio, for example.

But I think any color differences between Studio (or its retarded sybling, Master) and Silkypix is minimal. IMO, Silkypix produces superb color, and it too features built-in distortion and CA correction functions, as well as a speed and workflow that puts poor Master to shame and probably outstrips Studio as well (I haven't used Studio, so I'm just going by hearsay). Overall, it's got a host of other features that make it a bargain in my mind.

What I'm trying to say is, while each camera manufacturer should have an insider's ability to produce the best imaging software for its respective camera, they may not actually produce the best package. I personally only use Olympus Master on those rare occasions I need a control to see what an out-of-camera jpeg might have looked like. For everything else, it's Silkypix, and rarely, RSP.

D70FAN
03-21-2006, 12:38 PM
Side note:

For all of you that subscribe to Outdoor Photographer check the March 2006 issue and go to page 74 where there is an article on a new tool in CS2 which makes it possible to gain considerably more tonal range in your raw images. to put it in laymans terms:

Process:

use a tripod take 5-10 pictures with different exposure settings. Make sure you do not move the tripod or camera, and avoid windy days if shooting objects in close range.

In CS2
File > Automate > Merge to HDR

From the popup box you can import the 5-10 pictures and check mark the ones that you want to merge into a final photo. As you check mark the photos the prieview changes so you get an idea which photos work the best. Once you have chosen the pics you can tweak the final image exposure and Gamma, Highlight compression, Equalize histogram, and Local Adaption as well as Curves ect. Click the ok button and voi la (sp).

So I do use CS2 after I have processed my RAW files to my liking.

Hope this info helps you.

I think the D2X and D200 can do this in-camera as well.

Second side note: You can approximate dynamic range expansion using the NC4 D-Lighting tool in high quality mode to bring detail out of shadows while maintaining the background contrast (not always though).

D-Lighting is very cool when you forget to use fill flash as well...

In this sample the fence was not visible in the original:

erichlund
03-21-2006, 01:18 PM
I think the D2X and D200 can do this in-camera as well.

Second side note: You can approximate dynamic range expansion using the NC4 D-Lighting tool in high quality mode to bring detail out of shadows while maintaining the background contrast (not always though).

D-Lighting is very cool when you forget to use fill flash as well...

In this sample the fence was not visible in the original:
George, I suppose you could do something like Esoterra was suggesting in camera, but I suspect photoshops layering tools are significantly more sophisticated.

The D200 has two modes, image overlay and multiple exposure. With image overlay, the user can select gain between .1 and 2, 1 = as shot, .5 is half, and both images can be adjusted for gain.

Multiple exposure mode can capture up to 10 exposures, and gain can be set to either auto, or no gain. In auto, gain will be 1/# of exposures for each exposure. With none, no gain is applied. Unfortunately, it would seem very useful if you could use the bracketing tool for a shot like this, but bracketing is disabled during multiple exposure. Therefore, the user would have to set up the under and over exposures individually for each shot of the multi-exposure, and has no control over gain other than understanding exactly what you will get.

I haven't actually tried this yet, but I suspect you will just get an average of all the shots, muddied up by the fact that the world doesn't hold still.

I'm sure there are some very creative people that can make good use of multiple exposure, but I don't think it will extend dynamic range. Now bracketing a set of 9 different exposure (or three, or five), and layering them in photoshop or PSP, and using the layers to get the best from each, would be a useful ability, but any camera can do this. Maybe not at 5 frames / second, but they can do it. :)

Norm in Fujino
03-21-2006, 11:51 PM
George, I suppose you could do something like Esoterra was suggesting in camera, but I suspect photoshops layering tools are significantly more sophisticated.

The D200 has two modes, image overlay and multiple exposure. With image overlay, the user can select gain between .1 and 2, 1 = as shot, .5 is half, and both images can be adjusted for gain.


I'm guessing that more and more of the high-end digital cameras will come to have similar features, either alone or in concert with their proprietary RAW developers, as a measure to deal with wide dynamic range. Exposure blending (http://www.luminous-landscape.com//tutorials/blended_exposures.shtml) is still fairly esoteric, especially if you use one of the labor-intensive methods of layers and painting, but things are getting much simpler, both with built-in functions like HRD in CS2 (which remains too expensive for me), and with stand-alone programs like Photomatix, as I illustrated in another thread (http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?p=112303#post112303) just yesterday. In any event it's an exciting technique, since it allows us to access a much wider range of zones than straight RAW processing permits.

D70FAN
03-22-2006, 10:37 AM
George, I suppose you could do something like Esoterra was suggesting in camera, but I suspect photoshops layering tools are significantly more sophisticated.

The D200 has two modes, image overlay and multiple exposure. With image overlay, the user can select gain between .1 and 2, 1 = as shot, .5 is half, and both images can be adjusted for gain.

Multiple exposure mode can capture up to 10 exposures, and gain can be set to either auto, or no gain. In auto, gain will be 1/# of exposures for each exposure. With none, no gain is applied. Unfortunately, it would seem very useful if you could use the bracketing tool for a shot like this, but bracketing is disabled during multiple exposure. Therefore, the user would have to set up the under and over exposures individually for each shot of the multi-exposure, and has no control over gain other than understanding exactly what you will get.

I haven't actually tried this yet, but I suspect you will just get an average of all the shots, muddied up by the fact that the world doesn't hold still.

I'm sure there are some very creative people that can make good use of multiple exposure, but I don't think it will extend dynamic range. Now bracketing a set of 9 different exposure (or three, or five), and layering them in photoshop or PSP, and using the layers to get the best from each, would be a useful ability, but any camera can do this. Maybe not at 5 frames / second, but they can do it. :)

Maybe I don't understand auto exposure bracketing. Since my camera will only shoot 3 frames in this mode it was never of much interest, as I can usually shoot...check blinking areas/histogram...erase...and reshoot in less than 5 seconds, and I don't have to go through 150 frames to get 50 good images. Or even easier, I can make minor adjustments in NC4.

It would seem to me that shooting the same scene at -2EV to +2EV in 1/2 EV steps (in 1.8 seconds) would cover a wider dynamic range when combined in PS, without substantial movement blurr, than say -1/2EV to +1/2EV in 1 second. The result should be about the same as physically changing shutter speeds (in 1/2 stop increments) for 8 frames. My experience is that a stop, is a stop.

I'm pretty sure that the reason for the 9 image exposure bracketing (vs. say 3 or 4) would be exactly for this purpose, as again I can't immagine sorting through 160 images to get 20 keepers.

Again, I may not fully understand how this works, or why you would want that many frames bracketed if not for dynamic range extension.;)

cwphoto
03-22-2006, 07:06 PM
Obviously this is a static subject conversation.

Bullitt
04-07-2006, 12:55 AM
I think the D2X and D200 can do this in-camera as well.

Second side note: You can approximate dynamic range expansion using the NC4 D-Lighting tool in high quality mode to bring detail out of shadows while maintaining the background contrast (not always though).

D-Lighting is very cool when you forget to use fill flash as well...

In this sample the fence was not visible in the original:

Nice photo George, nice colors...:)

Norm in Fujino
04-07-2006, 04:38 AM
Nice photo George, nice colors...:)

I agree, nice tonal range throughout there.

Bullitt
04-08-2006, 12:50 PM
Can I do better than this photo with RAW if I purchase the Nikon Capture program, and, can I not even view a RAW file without the program?

cwphoto
04-08-2006, 06:35 PM
You can view a RAW file fairly easily using Microsoft RAW Viewer Utility (a free download), I assume you are using a PC.

That image looks great as it is, but all things being equal you will have more control with RAW.

JTL
05-04-2006, 11:23 PM
If so, how do you find it comapred to other RAW converters/RAW workflow tools? I'm thinking it's the one for me. Its the only one that I even remotely like. Only, the conversion/batch process seems really, really slow.

I'm interested in what everyone/anyone thinks...

Norm in Fujino
05-04-2006, 11:27 PM
If so, how do you find it comapred to other RAW converters/RAW workflow tools? I'm thinking it's the one for me. Its the only one that I even remotely like. Only, the conversion/batch process seems really, really slow.
I'm interested in what everyone/anyone thinks...

I don't know that particular program, but I'm guessing they're all slow to one degree or another if you've got a long queue of photos to process. With Silkypix I set up my batch, press the button, and go do something else until it's done. Much more productive for me than trying to interrupt the processor-intensive developing task.

cdnphotographer
07-09-2006, 10:40 PM
Right now I am using PS CS2, why b/c it's the only one I have right now :D

Spot focus
07-23-2006, 06:57 PM
An interesting move:)The K100D's standard software package consists of the PENTAX PHOTO Laboratory 3 that features the reliable SILKYPIX image-processing engine (developed by ICHIKAWA SOFT LABORATORY) for RAW data processing

Warin
07-23-2006, 07:42 PM
I've been playing with Capture NX for the last week or so. It seems pretty damn good. I suppose I'll have to pony up for a license when the 30 day trial is over. It's way faster than Capture 4, and the colour point stuff is pretty nifty.

Darth_furious
11-09-2006, 12:51 AM
Hi, I use DPP and enjoy it. Just wondering specifically what to expect if I purchased some other RAW software.


I'm preferring RSE @ the moment for the ability to really tweak the image details. The built in Noise Cleaner is nice for ISO 1600 images. The Canon DPP is quick but quite limited in what you can do. I prefer to get my RAW stuff as close as possible without relying too much on PSE 2.

Phase One LE works very good too but maybe not for $59.00 ... :(

SpecialK
12-31-2006, 10:42 AM
An interesting move:)The K100D's standard software package consists of the PENTAX PHOTO Laboratory 3 that features the reliable SILKYPIX image-processing engine (developed by ICHIKAWA SOFT LABORATORY) for RAW data processing

Same here. I only started shooting RAW 2 weeks ago. Photo Laboratory seems capable, and is free. I only use Photshop to join pix for comparison purposes, like the one below of Richard M Nixon's childhood house. PL also can save as a DNG which is a "universal" format. Bibble has many more features, few if any I'd use.

I sent an email to Pentax suggesting they reduce the size of the control and adjustment windows (way too much white space) so all windows can be open without overlap, and allow a larger preview window (the only sizable window). Or maybe it's my 20+" CRT at 1280 x 1024?

Bottom test set is Bibble on left, Photo Laboratory on right, reference on top. The center image was way underexposed, hence higher grain. I only dragged the highlight triangle down a bit in each image. No other adjustments. I'm a RAW rookie :-)

Malcy
01-28-2007, 10:49 AM
I use Bibble with raws from my KM 5D and Silkypix V2SE with raws from my Panasonic DMC-LX2. Generally I use whichever gives me the best results but I find the user interface on SP to be poor.

Norm in Fujino
01-28-2007, 10:55 AM
I use Bibble with raws from my KM 5D and Silkypix V2SE with raws from my Panasonic DMC-LX2. Generally I use whichever gives me the best results but I find the user interface on SP to be poor.

I find the opposite. I love the Silkypix interface (with the exception of the "Engrish" transmogrification). However, in my own camera's case (Olympus E-300), Silkypix has poorer NR handling than the camera's native jpeg or Olympus Master/Studio software. That's sad, since I like so much else about SP. It's still my processor of choice for shots of ISO100-400.

Colorati
11-15-2007, 12:18 PM
OK- So I'm totally late to this thread... but Raw processing is my full time business. I started out using Capture One when Photoshop was still simply "CS."

I liked C1, but it took me a little while to get used to it.

Pros: background processing was implemented well.

Cons: It wasn't as intuitive and fast as I hoped and it left a trail of messy folders, subfolders and working files.

Then I moved on to Bibble... Just not fast or user friendly. Bought the app, used it for a few thousand images, hated it, wish I could have got my money back. :(

Once CS2 came out and ACR was pumped with steroids, I gave it a go and never looked back. I love its integration with Bridge and the whole suite. It's got plenty of horsepower and speed!

I started my own post production company (http://www.getcolorati.com) and our business runs IS Raw processing. Though Aperture and Capture One are amazing products, I couldn't imagine trying to run through the volume with any other app.

-Leon

Colorati
01-09-2008, 12:44 PM
Any Adobe Camera Raw users had a chance to play with the new version of Capture One?

We're sticking with ACR because of the XMP compatibility that my clients love, but just wondered if anyone has some words of wisdom!

-Leon

Ken.
04-23-2008, 05:34 AM
Adobe Lightroom (ACR 4.4) with DNG conversion. I've been using it or a bit. It works perfectly.

jmoro
07-08-2008, 12:32 PM
I used ACR, then became a Lightroom v1.x beta tester and currently use only Lightroom. Now that I shoot with a Nikon D300 and it came with a copy of Capture NX I will occasonally use the Capture NX software. it has some features the others do not.

JM

Joe Fisher
08-09-2008, 09:49 PM
I tried Lightroom, for some reason it wouldn't work on one of my machines. So I then tried Capture 1, I really thought that was the one I'd buy.

However, I photograph dog agilty, I put the pictures up on my website, http://dogshots.biz
Breeze Browser Pro has a great feature, with 1 click you can make these fanstastic web galleries.
It's a really fast viewer, it can do some RAW conversion, but if I have a picture or series that need much work, I use DPP.

mdacko
09-20-2008, 04:29 PM
Question: how do I know if a Canon lens is 'Grey Market' unit vs regular US product??

TheWengler
09-20-2008, 04:49 PM
Buy from B&H and you won't need to worry.

cwphoto
09-20-2008, 07:35 PM
Question: how do I know if a Canon lens is 'Grey Market' unit vs regular US product??

As a product they're identical, it's just the way the item was imported that's the difference. It should say whether it's grey or otherwise when it's advertised.

digitalcameradc
10-01-2008, 07:05 PM
thanks for help

Visual Reality
10-01-2008, 07:08 PM
thanks for help
Thanks for spam.

jedinite
10-29-2008, 10:16 AM
Workflow:
1) Plug Camera in
2) User Canon's image importer
3) User ACR 4.6 to convert RAW to DNG
4) Import DNG to Aperture 2.1
5) Do adjustments

Wish Apple would be quicker to get RAW support for new cameras.

ghost
10-29-2008, 10:53 AM
I'm surprised that no one mentioned RAW Therapee. (http://www.rawtherapee.com/) I use it on Ubuntu (available for Windows as well, no Mac though) and it is much better than UFRaw. It feels a lot like ACR, but I dont think it batch edits. I'm very impressed. Oh, its all available for a reasonable $0.00. Thats right, ACR clone with no batch edits for free. Sounds good to me.

kcouter
10-24-2009, 11:56 PM
can anyone help me with my toshiba pdr-m65 camera. it want work on windows XP cant get no help from website. just need help to use on my computer.
thanks
kandy

K1W1
10-25-2009, 03:36 PM
can anyone help me with my toshiba pdr-m65 camera. it want work on windows XP cant get no help from website. just need help to use on my computer.
thanks
kandy


What do you mean by use on your Computer?
You camera is about 8 years old and uses Smart Media cards so the easiest solution to get photos off the camera onto the PC will be a USB card reader. Take the card out of the camera, put it into the card reader and attach the card reader to the PC via USB and you will be able to access the images.

slaaststiter
12-09-2009, 08:56 PM
Until last night I was using CS2, before that Bibble (well for the demo period) and CS before that... But last night I tried C1 as they added DS support, and I like it a lot, I will keep using it for a while, I think I will buy it from my testing so far...