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jeisner
05-09-2005, 10:03 PM
Moved out of other thread as people are giving me changes and was getting hard to follow, post additions here and I will add... It is in someway usefull I guess to see all the specs in one place...


Frame
- 20d - magnesium alloy body built around full steelframe
- Ist DS - Plastic body built around full steel frame
- E300 - Plastic body (metal top) built around full Alloy frame
- D70 - Plastic body built around metal plate
- 350d - Plastic body built around metal plate
- D50 - Plastic body built around metal plate
- D70s - Plastic body built around metal plate

Maximum ISO in camera
- 20D = 3200
- ist DS = 3200
- D70s = 1600
- 350d = 1600
- D70 = 1600
- D50 = 1600
- E300 = 1600 (expanded)

AF points:
- Ist DS has 11 AF points
- 20D has 9 AF points
- 350D has 7 AF points
- D70 has 5 AF points
- D70s has 5 AF points
- D50 has 5 AF points
- E300 has 3 AF points

EV Steps
- ist DS = 1/3 or 1/2
- D70s = 1/3 or 1/2
- D70 = 1/3 or 1/2
- 20D = 1/3 or 1/2
- 350D = 1/3 or 1/2
- E300 = 1/3 or 1/2
- D50 = 1/3 or 1/2

Continuous Drive
- 20D = 5 fps up to 23 JPEG
- D70s = 3 fps up to 12 JPEG
- 350D = 3 fps up to 14 JPEG
- ist DS = 2.8 fps up to 8 frames
- D50 = 2.5 fps up to 12 JPEG
- E300 = 2.5 fps up to 4 frames

Preview Screen
- Ist DS = 2" 210,000 pixels
- D70s = 2" 130,000 pixels
- D50 = 2" 130,000 pixels
- E300 = 1.8" 134,000 pixels
- D70 = 1.8" 130,000 pixels
- 350D = 1.8" 115,000 pixels
- 20D = 1.8" 118,000 pixels

Viewfinder (magnification in 35mm equiv. so even playing field)
- ist DS = Pentaprism 0.63x magnification (95% coverage)
- 20D = Pentaprism 0.56x magnification (95% coverage)
- 350D = Pentamirror 0.53x magnification (95% coverage)
- D70 = Pentaprism 0.5x magnifictaion (95% coverage)
- D70s = Pentaprism 0.5x magnifictaion (95% coverage)
- D50 = Pentaprism 0.5x magnifictaion (95% coverage)
- E300 = Mirror System 0.5x magnification (94% coverage)

Megapixels
- 20D = 8.2
- 350D = 8.0
- E300 = 8.0
- D70 = 6.2
- Ist DS = 6.2
- D70s = 6.2
- D50 = 6.2

Crop Factor
- D70 = 1.5x
- Ist DS = 1.5x
- D70s = 1.5x
- D50 = 1.5x
- 20D = 1.6x
- 350D = 1.6x
- E300 = 2x

Internal Flash Sync (not external flash)
- D70 = 1/500
- 350D = 1/200
- 20D = 1/250
- Ist DS = 1/180
- E300 = 1/180

Maximum Shutter Speed
- D70 = 1/8000
- 20D = 1/8000
- D70s = 1/8000
- Ist DS = 1/4000
- 350D = 1/4000
- E300 = 1/4000
- D50 = 1/4000

Alignment grid
- D70 = in built
- D70s = in built
- Ist DS = Available as replacement Focus Screen (US$40)
- 350D = no grid (focus screen also not replaceable)
- 20D = no grid (focus screen also not replaceable)
- E300 = no grid (focus screen also not replaceable)
- D50 = no grid

Storage
- Ist DS = SD
- D70 = CF
- 350D = CF
- 20D = CF
- E300 = CF
- D70s = CF
- D50 = SD

Internal Batteries
- ist DS = 4xAA or 2xCRV3
- D70 = Lithium-Ion EN-EL3 rechargeable battery
- D70s = Lithium-Ion EN-EL3 rechargeable battery
- D50 = Lithium-Ion EN-EL3 rechargeable battery
- 350D = Lithium-Ion NB-2LH rechargeable battery
- 20D = Lithium-Ion BP-511A rechargeable battery
- E300 = BLM-1 1500 mAh Lithium-Ion rechargeable battery

Grip available
- 20D = Yes
- 350D = Yes
- E300 = Yes
- D70 = Yes (third party)
- D70s = Yes (third party)
- ist DS = Yes (third party)
- D50 = No

USB transfer
- ISt DS = USB 2.0 High Speed
- 350D = USB 2.0 High Speed
- 20D = USB 2.0 High Speed
- D70s = USB 2.0 High Speed
- D50 = USB 2.0 High Speed
- D70 = USB 2.0 (Full Speed, similar transfer rate to USB 1.1)
- E300 = USB 1.1

Remote Shutter Release
- 20D = Wired or Proper Wireless
- ist DS = Wired or IR
- 350D = Wired or IR
- E300 = Wired or IR
- D70 = IR only
- D70s = IR only
- D50 = IR only

Mirror lock up
- 20D = Yes
- 350D = Yes
- ist DS = Yes
- E300 = Yes
- D70s = Yes
- D70 = No
- D50 = No

Spot Metering
- Ist DS = Yes
- D70 = Yes
- D70s = Yes
- D50 = Yes
- E300 = Yes
- 20D = No
- 350D = No


Can suggest more if you like, I will edit/add to the post...

TheObiJuan
05-09-2005, 10:11 PM
battery grip and remote control available for the canons.

edit: I see you updated it. It is important to note that the grip for nikon is not by nikon, but from a 3rd party company. some may not care, some may...

jeisner
05-09-2005, 10:15 PM
battery grip and remote control available for the canons.

edit: I see you updated it. It is important to note that the grip for nikon is not by nikon, but from a 3rd party company. some may not care, some may...

Made the change, I think they all have both IR and Wired remotes don't they? Let me know if there is a difference I will add it...

TheObiJuan
05-09-2005, 10:23 PM
Made the change, I think they all have both IR and Wired remotes don't they? Let me know if there is a difference I will add it...

I thought the D70 didn't, unless you use a all in one remote control, but that isn't exactly compact. Maybe George knows... where is he?

jeisner
05-09-2005, 10:25 PM
I thought the D70 didn't, unless you use a all in one remote control, but that isn't exactly compact. Maybe George knows... where is he?

OK will add with ??? for D70 until I can confirm it, do the two canon have IR and wired or just wired or proper wireless (rather than IR)?

Ahh I have been searching it I can only find an IR remote for the D70, still looking though...

jeisner
05-09-2005, 10:32 PM
OK added remote fundtion

jeisner
05-09-2005, 10:51 PM
added manual WB and MLU

TheObiJuan
05-09-2005, 10:55 PM
Hehe, the 350D actually does have manual white balance in camera. You can use custom WB by shooting a card and using the picture or using the 20D's grid to adjust the WB in 4 directions for green, blue, amber, or magenta.

jeisner
05-09-2005, 10:58 PM
Hehe, the 350D actually does have manual white balance in camera. You can use custom WB by shooting a card and using the picture or using the 20D's grid to adjust the WB in 4 directions for green, blue, amber, or magenta.

Fixed for you ;)

Also added spot metering

DiJ
05-09-2005, 11:12 PM
Both 20d and 350d do not have spot metering. They do have partial metering. Which is centre 9% of the viewfinder.

jeisner
05-09-2005, 11:13 PM
Both 20d and 350d do not have spot metering. They do have partial metering. Which is centre 9% of the viewfinder.

Ohh ok I thought the 20d did, will fix!

Balrog
05-10-2005, 03:54 AM
How about frame coverage for the viewfinders? (not just magnification...)
And it'd be really nice if you could add the E-300...

jeisner
05-10-2005, 04:46 AM
How about frame coverage for the viewfinders? (not just magnification...)
And it'd be really nice if you could add the E-300...

Well I kinda thought the size of the view (and brightness pentaprism/pentamirror) was more important, but as requested I will add coverage, different people find different aspects important ;)


E300 also added!!!!

jeisner
05-10-2005, 05:29 AM
I also change the viewfinder magnification to 35mm equivelent otherwise we are not comparing apples to apples.... ;) especially with the e300 2x crop factor...

D70FAN
05-10-2005, 10:44 AM
I thought the D70 didn't, unless you use a all in one remote control, but that isn't exactly compact. Maybe George knows... where is he?

D70 has only wireless IR remote. I think there are third party USB wired remotes available. But the IR works fine.

D70FAN
05-10-2005, 11:21 AM
A note on lumping the E-300 sensor in with the rest:

It appears that the E-300 sensor is closer to the Olympus 8080 (.66" = 17mm Diagonal) than to APS-C. Although the E-1 and E-300 sensors are made by Kodak, and I'm not sure about the 8080.

The 8MP 4:3 E-300 sensor is 17mm x 13mm.

The 6MP and 8MP APS-C sensors are around 24mm x 16mm.

Another clue to the smaller sensor is the limited Auto ISO range of 400 for the E-300.

So I'm not sure that the E-300's extended ISO range is a valid measurement, as you would have to be able to measure equivalent noise against the APS-C group.

Just a thought.

jeisner
05-10-2005, 04:03 PM
I understand george I was hesitant to add it, but I said I would if peolple wanted it there..... I have included crop factor, and when I said 1600 for the e300 I put extended in brackets as the 1600 is not equivelent to others IMO, but it is only specs and it is DSLR so it would be unfair to leave it out too I think...

EDIT: I might add sensor size too then...

Snap Dragon
05-11-2005, 11:28 AM
New at DSLRs, so if I don't know what I'm talking about, please correct...

But how come no one mentioned the impact of the LCD resolution and difference between the review image quality (more specifically between the D70 and 20D). I've played with both cameras and I swear that the D70 seems to have a sharper review image. At least I seem to be able to tell what's in focus on the D70 better than on the 20D. Maybe I'm just more use to Nikon's review image since I own a Coolpix... Also, I recall reading that the 20D uses a low res. image for it's review, I wonder if that has something to do with it. Does anyone knows if that's what the D70 does? I do know that the Coolpix applies a sharpening mask to the focused area (for live preview anyways) so maybe that's why the review image on the D70 appears sharper? Would be interesting to compare the review image seen on both LCDs for the same scene.

jeisner
05-11-2005, 04:02 PM
In my specs I listed resolution and you can see the D70 is slightly higher res than the Canon's.... It is something actually that always bothered me about canon...

My friend uses a 20d, far from a cheap camera (esp here in Australia), and they completely cheap out on providing a half decent review screen... If you do a lot of macro work a large high res review screen is rather useful to review DOF/focus...

D70FAN
05-11-2005, 04:35 PM
In my specs I listed resolution and you can see the D70 is slightly higher res than the Canon's.... It is something actually that always bothered me about canon...

My friend uses a 20d, far from a cheap camera (esp here in Australia), and they completely cheap out on providing a half decent review screen... If you do a lot of macro work a large high res review screen is rather useful to review DOF/focus...

If you are planning to add the D50 and D70s in the near future... Both will have 2" LCD's although the same 130K resolution. That'll be nice...

D70FAN
05-11-2005, 04:40 PM
I understand george I was hesitant to add it, but I said I would if peolple wanted it there..... I have included crop factor, and when I said 1600 for the e300 I put extended in brackets as the 1600 is not equivelent to others IMO, but it is only specs and it is DSLR so it would be unfair to leave it out too I think...

EDIT: I might add sensor size too then...

Yes, it is kind of difficult to add the E-300 when it is actually pretty different. Being more of a hybrid all-in-one/dSLR as it also lacks a monochrome info LCD. But at the same approximate list price as the rest, and billed as a dSLR, I agree that it should be on the list.

jeisner
05-11-2005, 06:33 PM
If you are planning to add the D50 and D70s in the near future... Both will have 2" LCD's although the same 130K resolution. That'll be nice...

Yeah I will add them tonight there are a couple of changes that would warrant it...

scalia
05-12-2005, 01:46 AM
E-300 with firmware 1.2 got MLU too. Well sort of...

And E-300+14-45mm+40-150mm kit = $899 is a pretty bargain. that means E-300 body is just $369.

jeisner
05-12-2005, 05:12 AM
I have added D50 and D70s and also added two more categories 'Continuous Drive' and 'EV Steps'

TheObiJuan
05-12-2005, 05:17 AM
Since the 300D is still available new and selling pretty well, why not include it? :D

And if so, perhaps some of the options opened up with the firmware "update"


Also, I didn't see the KM 7D...

Bluedog
05-12-2005, 05:17 AM
No matter what one decides on the choices are getting better and better for DSLR buyers.

TheObiJuan
05-12-2005, 05:23 AM
The replacement for the D100 sure will put a dent on the 20D.
I am eager to see what Nikon does. It would be funny if they put a 2.5" LCD and upped the pixels, and canon would probably stick with the 1.8" and make the camera bigger.
If Canon were to use the 350D layout, ie push the buttons on the right all the way to the side and move the on off button close to where the 350D's is, a 2.5" LCD could easily fit in the current 20D's body.

I would pay 150 extra new, atleast!, for that feature.

jeisner
05-12-2005, 05:44 AM
Since the 300D is still available new and selling pretty well, why not include it? :D

Thats fair enough, will do it tomorrow, too tired now ;)


And if so, perhaps some of the options opened up with the firmware "update"

They will be marked (Yes with hacked firmware) :P


Also, I didn't see the KM 7D...

This is getting huge :eek:

Balrog
05-12-2005, 08:35 AM
This is getting huge

:) well, you started it ... it's really nice though, useful to have a comparison of all the important features here.

And as regards the E-300 .. well it does have a slightly smaller sensor, but it's not like that makes it not a DSLR anymore. The only difference is the increased noise, and even that's not solely dependent on the sensor size (like if they switched to CMOS I doubt I'd see anyone complaining...) And it's definitely competing for the same market as the 300D etc ... I think you should keep it in the list. It's purely a 'spec comparison', isn't it? Anyone who wants to buy one of these would have to look at the image quality as well .. then they can decide for themselves...

jeisner
05-15-2005, 06:22 AM
Added 3rd party grip that was just released for ist DS... :) at last...

Balrog
05-17-2005, 06:54 PM
Motion to sticky this thread :)

btw jeisner, can we see the K-M Maxxum 7D added here too?

jeisner
05-17-2005, 09:18 PM
Yeah and I was going to add the 300d for Juan, I will get around to it, but it is a bit hard to do from here (work) as it takes a little while and I have been busy... It will be done soon ;)

DiJ
05-18-2005, 08:22 AM
Continuous Drive
- 20D = 5 fps up to 23 JPEG
- D70s = 3 fps up to 12 JPEG
- 350D = 2.8 fps up to 14 JPEG
- ist DS = 2.8 fps up to 8 frames
- D50 = 2.5 fps up to 12 JPEG
- E300 = 2.5 fps up to 4 frames

...

Actual results tested by dpreview is
D70 2.9fps
350d 2.9fps
ist DS 2.7fps

jeisner
05-18-2005, 10:26 AM
Actual results tested by dpreview is
D70 2.9fps
350d 2.9fps
ist DS 2.7fps

OK, will have a look, I was using the specs as listed by the camera manufacturers rather than as tested by dpreview...

DiJ
05-18-2005, 07:05 PM
OK, will have a look, I was using the specs as listed by the camera manufacturers rather than as tested by dpreview...

Then I not sure how you came up with these specs either. The D70 and 350D are both rated at 3fps.

jeisner
05-18-2005, 07:45 PM
Then I not sure how you came up with these specs either. The D70 and 350D are both rated at 3fps.

Oops your right the 350d was a typo/screw-up on my part, just fixed it.... :p

D70FAN
05-18-2005, 09:57 PM
Oops your right the 350d was a typo/screw-up on my part, just fixed it.... :p

I'm afraid you have taken on the impossible task...

...thanks.

DiJ
05-18-2005, 11:34 PM
Oops your right the 350d was a typo/screw-up on my part, just fixed it.... :p

Thanks. Another useful info would be image quality options. Example RAW+jpeg or just RAW with embedded jpeg.

I also find it rather odd that D50 is listed as having 1.0ev exposure compensation steps.

jeisner
05-18-2005, 11:46 PM
Thanks. Another useful info would be image quality options. Example RAW+jpeg or just RAW with embedded jpeg.

I have changes to do on then weekend so will look into that too then...


I also find it rather odd that D50 is listed as having 1.0ev exposure compensation steps.

It has bracketing in 1/2 EV, but the actual EV compensation you do on camera is only in 1 EV steps, one of the reasons to make you buy the D70s....

MrForgetable
05-19-2005, 12:04 AM
the 350D/Digital rebel XT actually has 8.0 megapixels effective, not 8.2. it has 8.2 million total pixels though.

jeisner
05-19-2005, 12:25 AM
the 350D/Digital rebel XT actually has 8.0 megapixels effective, not 8.2. it has 8.2 million total pixels though.

Changed, how about the 20d?

scalia
05-19-2005, 01:13 AM
A note on lumping the E-300 sensor in with the rest:

It appears that the E-300 sensor is closer to the Olympus 8080 (.66" = 17mm Diagonal) than to APS-C. Although the E-1 and E-300 sensors are made by Kodak, and I'm not sure about the 8080.

The 8MP 4:3 E-300 sensor is 17mm x 13mm.

The 6MP and 8MP APS-C sensors are around 24mm x 16mm.

Another clue to the smaller sensor is the limited Auto ISO range of 400 for the E-300.

So I'm not sure that the E-300's extended ISO range is a valid measurement, as you would have to be able to measure equivalent noise against the APS-C group.

Just a thought.

Well, George, your statement about the E-300 sensor size is closer to 8080 than to APS-C make me wonder... so i stumble to this article, and there goes a beautiful picture... ;)

Sensor Dimensions (http://www.photozone.de/3Technology/digital_1.htm)

D70FAN
05-19-2005, 06:10 AM
Well, George, your statement about the E-300 sensor size is closer to 8080 than to APS-C make me wonder... so i stumble to this article, and there goes a beautiful picture... ;)

Sensor Dimensions (http://www.photozone.de/3Technology/digital_1.htm)

Keep in mind that I have nothing against the E-300, and people seem to like them. It's just not my cup of tea for many reasons. In my opinion it is basically a good camera but maybe not as competitive as the others in this group. It is a good example of why specifications don't always tell the whole story.

MrForgetable
05-19-2005, 07:42 AM
Changed, how about the 20d?

the 20D is correct, with 8.5 million total, and 8.2 effective.

Rhys
05-20-2005, 09:42 AM
How about PC sockets and hotshoes availability.

Also, hotshoe/PC max voltages.

AllanMarcus
05-24-2005, 11:31 PM
Did you know that you can do a great side by side spec comparison at both of the following URLs?

http://www.imaging-resource.com/CAMDB/compare_cameras.php
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sidebyside.asp

Hope this helps,

-Allan

serafin
06-02-2005, 09:54 AM
I thought the D70 didn't, unless you use a all in one remote control, but that isn't exactly compact. Maybe George knows... where is he?

There is a D70 'wired' remote available on the e-Bay - it puts the infrared LED on the end of a wire, and lets you fire the shutter through the infared remote sensor while behind the camera, to the side, etc.. Not an official Nikon product, but it does the job. Do a 'Bay search on 'D70 wired'.

serafin