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Savannah
04-21-2005, 03:15 PM
I must have had Sucker written on my forhead when I went shopping at 2 local camera stores today and told them both I wanted the Rebel XT with lots of acces. One tried to sell me the Olymp. Evolt (said it was just as good if not better than the over hyped XT) and the other store tried to sell me a Konica (good for family photos and easy to use) I was so insulted. What the H were they thinking. Do they think we don't do our homework before going in. (Thank you Jeff and everyone who posts for making homework so much fun) I just kind of played dumb, asking questions to which I already knew the answer and I was getting Lies Lies and more lies. Unbelieveable!! Can you believe they both told me that there wasn't an all purpose lens ( i.e. 18-200 --just for walk abouts) on the market that would fit the Canon. One even told me he thought I would only get about 80 pictures on a 1G card, so I needed to buy a 2G. Please.......
I'm ordering online from a rep. store. I think supporting your local camera stores is important, but not until they get real.

Stacy

Rex914
04-21-2005, 03:22 PM
What Konica were they talking about? There's only one and it costs $1600 and it's definitely not "family friendly." I imagine they tried selling you those 2 because the sales on those cameras have been quite poor at best.

The reason why they mentioned no all purpose lenses is probably because they were only referring to first party lenses. Canon makes one, but it's really old and takes bad pictures.

Savannah
04-21-2005, 03:34 PM
DiMAGE Z5 --------around $250. He asked me if this was my first digital camera. And he suggested I start out with something simple like the Konica.
How nice of him....(retard) :eek: Trust me, I just had to give him a big long blank stare.

Rex914
04-21-2005, 03:46 PM
You can get a Z5 for $250?! Are you kidding me? That things's brand new and costs $500 list price.

aparmley
04-21-2005, 03:50 PM
I also went to a local Camera store because I was wanting to hold the XT in my hand and play around with it a little bit. The XT was not in my hands more than 2-3 minutes and they started pushing the Olympus Evolt E300 on me, stating that the olympus was a much nicer camera... I too played dumb because I didn't understand why they just wouldn't let me do my hands on recon work. I asked, how does it perform at high ISOs, he told me that its equal if not better than the Canon XT. LOL -- Ok... He then took the lens off and said olympus is all about quality, look, [pointing at the lens mount that fits to the camera body] metal, then he took the canon out of my hands and said look at canons lens mount, its plastic. I said, isn't that because its the EF-S lens? He looked at me and said no, I don't think so. He then said, the EF-S lens are for the digital Cameras [ No kidding buddy]. I asked if he had any EF lenses and he pulled one out, oops, metal.. LOL. Enter sales associates number 2. Sales associate number 2 says, Olympus has a larger lens line up that Canon does and infact right now they have a two lens combo for 1000 bucks. Plus the Canon does not have this sensor cleaner that the olympus has... that little ultrasonic vibrating deal that will losen any dust that gets in the camera... He went on to say that without it the camera will most likely be useless after a few lens changes...
I showed no interest in the olympus camera and yet they both went on and on for about 15 minutes... So finally I said hey guys, I am not interested in the Oly, I came in for the Canon, its pretty clear you don't want to sell it to me.[I was not there to buy but if I was I would have walked out just the same] So I just said thanks for your time and was going to walk out and the first sales associate said well sir please take my card incase you have any questions, I said, that won't be necessary, thank you.
I too was baffled why they were doing this... I came to the conclusion they must have purchased quite a few of these OLYs and are needing to sell them because they must not be selling like they thought they would. XT to blame for this??? They claimed to have only sold 1 XT... that may be a direct result of their selling methods... I visited this store a week ago. Good Stuff.. Yea.. Newegg.com has my order when I save up enough.

Bluedog
04-21-2005, 03:55 PM
My local camera store hasn't even accepted the digital world yet.

Rex914
04-21-2005, 03:56 PM
Let me ask - are these Ritz camera stores or truly independent stores? That's utter BS how Olympus has a larger lens lineup than Canon. Have they been living on the moon for the past 50 years or what?

And you people think Best Buy is bad. At least they won't try and steer you towards the completely wrong product. At worst, they'll point you towards the best, most expensive one. I guess I could rant a bit on how BB isn't as bad as people think. It all depends on who the employees are. If you live in a very affluent, tech oriented area, the employees are nicer and actually know what they are talking about. People who complain probably come from areas where people don't know technology as well and have to pull things out of thin air. Don't blame BB for that. It's all in the people who work there, not the store.

Savannah
04-21-2005, 04:00 PM
You can get a Z5 for $250?! Are you kidding me? That things's brand new and costs $500 list price.


Honestly, I was so flabbergasted at the insult of showing me a much cheaper NON SLR that didn't come close to what I wanted or asked for, I didn't pay attention to the price. I'll admit, I'm just guessing at the price. It may be a fine camera, but it's not what I came in there to buy. I felt as if I were on a car dealership!

Savannah
04-21-2005, 04:12 PM
I also went to a local Camera store because I was wanting to hold the XT in my hand and play around with it a little bit. The XT was not in my hands more than 2-3 minutes and they started pushing the Olympus Evolt E300 on me, stating that the olympus was a much nicer camera... .


This is so similar to my experience today !! He said the same thing. ... dust on the sensor could be a problem in the canon, but the evolt solved that problem. Blah blah blah. I could get 2 lenses with the Evolt for the price of the XT. and they were "just as good!" Push push push.
Yeah...he was making like he was doing me a favor, being a real friend...
Oh, and he said Sigma isn't any good for the any Digital Rebels....And they copy, and rearrange the design of lenses without paying for the techno from companies that first developed them like Canon and Nikon. Shame on sigma... lol(What ever happened to capitalism at its best/worst)

TheObiJuan
04-21-2005, 04:19 PM
I went into the local ritz last month asking to see when they will have the 350D in stock. I said I am saving to get it. He told me to get the 20D as it is 100% better or the D70 as the pictures will be better! I told him I didn't care for either, that I wanted a xt. He gave me a rude look and said, "it's your money you are wasting" I immediately left and never returned.

what a ftard.

aparmley
04-21-2005, 04:25 PM
I am not sure how Bestbuy got involved. The store I went to has many stores throughout the STL area. They were just full of BS thinking I asked for the XT, I must be a retard. I did have a BestBuy guy try to talk computers with me once when I was looking for my laptop. That was pretty comical. He tried to sell me for an additional 350 bucks a security package that is "required." They were going to open up my computer turn it on load some programs and change some IE security settings... I told them nope I wasn't going to pay for them to open my computer and mess around with it. He told me that I better not get on the internet with this thing without that package because otherwise I get a virus and then I will have a 1500 dollar paper weight. :eek: No way! ahhhhhhhhh ok here is my 350 dollars for nothing .. Whatever.. I was pretty dumbfounded at the scare tactic there and I asked for the manager. Well, after about 20 minutes of standing there I told the guy, if you don't sell that laptop to me right now I am going over to circuit city and I will by something there. He still wouldn't do it! I left and came back the next day and told the very nice guy that was working then that I just want this laptop. I don't need any package that you want to sell me. Sold... I just don't understand... what happened to the customer is always right? :confused:

Rex914
04-21-2005, 04:57 PM
As I said, it depends on where you live. The Best Buy people here actually know what they are talking about. In fact, I'd even dare to call them nice.

Have you ever gotten frustrated when you went to the store to look at cameras only to find that half of them are out of batteries? (*cough* Fry's)

When I went to my Best Buy, one of the employees noticed that the camera I was holding as out of juice and offered to pop in new batteries. He also popped in a memory card. On another visit, I was looking at the DSLR's, and their practice is to lock up the lenses since they don't have security latches on them. The employee knew right away that I needed a lens to test the camera and got on immediately. How's that for service?

Rhys
04-21-2005, 06:22 PM
Hmm... My experience of Ritz has been very poor. The first time I went, they wanted to flog me a ratty old tripod and head that had been well battered by the viewing public - without a discount. I walked out.

The last time I went, I wanted a charger for my Nikon 995. They tried to flog an over-priced charger that claimed to charge many different kinds of batteries. In the end, I ordered from Amazon as they had a reasonable price. I have yet to receive it as they're backordered until May but it's not exactly urgent.

Norm in Fujino
04-21-2005, 07:07 PM
He gave me a rude look and said, "it's your money you are wasting" I immediately left and never returned.

I'd have reported him to his manager for a comment like that, and yes, never set foot in the store again.

ReF
04-21-2005, 07:27 PM
HAHAHAHAHA! post #2 was really funny :D i used to work at a major retailer that sold digital cameras and computers and i worked in those departments to boot, so i know what you are all talking about and why they do it. they are either on commission, or are under pressure by their managers (who trying to make their bonus and are also under pressure by their managers, and so on) to sell accessories, etc. the evolt pushers probably have not been selling too many of them. i was the one guy in my store than knew anything about digital cameras and i never really played by their rules about selling crap to people who don't need or want it. hey, i wasn't gonna be there forever and i wanted to leave with some pride and self-respect ya know. plus i wasn't getting commission so why the heck should i care. anyways, best advice is to do all your homework before you talk to anyone in the stores. go in knowing what you want to buy, and if they try to sell you something else (and you REALLY you really know your stuff), give them no more than 1 minute before you interupt them and tell them again what you're there to buy. some sales reps have no respect and ya gotta show them who's money you're spending (but please do it with some class).

jeisner
04-21-2005, 07:47 PM
Let me ask - are these Ritz camera stores or truly independent stores? That's utter BS how Olympus has a larger lens lineup than Canon. Have they been living on the moon for the past 50 years or what?

The Olympus sales reps are saying that too here in Australia, what they mean is "Olympus has a larger DIGITAL ONLY lens lineup" as they are telling everyone that quality is extremely compramised by using lenses made for film.... Obviously the twits in those stores bought the Olympus line, or they are just using it to help sell their Olympus stock...

However the point about the sonic vibration dust cleaning is a good one, the other camera manufacturers should get off their collective butts and implement something similar....

JTL
04-21-2005, 08:23 PM
:D This thread is the greatest! It's like the honesty police!

I'm afraid that I have to ruin everyone's good time with a nice story. About a week ago I had a meeting in downtown Manhattan. I was 15 minutes early and knew that J&R was just around the corner. The light bulb in my head went off and flashed "Camera Time"! So I went to their SLR store (J&R has serveral stores all in a row selling different electornoics and such), walked up to the counter and said "Can you let me see both the Pentax *ist DS and the Canon XT?" 30 seconds later, both cameras were on the counter. I said "I just want to play with them both for a while." the salesman said o.k. and said if I needed anything or had any questions to just ask and then he left me alone as I walked round the store shooting with both cameras. Around 10-minutes later after deciding that the XT was made for me I said to him "I'm surprised at how light the XT is". and he replied, "If it were my money, I'd go with the XT...it compares favorably to the 20D...but I like the viewfinder on the Pentax better". And you know what? I liked the viewfinder on the Pentax better as well. I looked at my watch, realized I was about to be late...which was probably a good thing, since I was just about to say "I'll take the XT"...after just spending $500.00 on the SD500 (also bought at J&R)! I told him I had to run, and thanked him...he said "Here's my card...if you have any questions about either camera, give me a call." Well you know what? When it's time to buy, he's getting the sale. He knew his cameras and treated me as someone who knew cameras as well. In New York, no less...go figure... :D

D70FAN
04-21-2005, 08:25 PM
The Olympus sales reps are saying that too here in Australia, what they mean is "Olympus has a larger DIGITAL ONLY lens lineup" as they are telling everyone that quality is extremely compramised by using lenses made for film.... Obviously the twits in those stores bought the Olympus line, or they are just using it to help sell their Olympus stock...

However the point about the sonic vibration dust cleaning is a good one, the other camera manufacturers should get off their collective butts and implement something similar....

We'll see if ultrasonic cleaning is worthwhile in a couple of years. If the system doesn't fail, or cause imager misalignment, then it's a winner. I have a feeling that the other guys are waiting for the test of time.

Note: It also adds to start-up time.

Note 2: Of almost 7000 shots on my non-ultrasonic dSLR, I have only noticed dust twice, and by the time I went to clean it it had shaken itself loose.

Rex914
04-21-2005, 09:11 PM
Agreed. While it's a good feature, you can still get by without it through good care. And in the case where you do see dust, it's not the end of the world. You can remove it safely in software if it's a couple specks.

jeisner
04-21-2005, 10:13 PM
I clean the dust myself (copperhill method) it is no big deal for me, but for consumer oriented cameras as they are becoming (cheaper and cheaper and aimed at the prosumer market) they should provide an easy solution, especially since they waste resources cleaning them for you under warranty. Your right though, it will be good to see in a years time if the Olympus system still works, if so then they will all have it!!!

Savannah
04-22-2005, 08:33 AM
Of almost 7000 shots on my non-ultrasonic dSLR, I have only noticed dust twice, and by the time I went to clean it it had shaken itself loose.


Thanks George, I was wondering about that..... The salesman told me "You've probably heard of people complaining about dust, haven't you...?

My answer......"ahh, NO,.........."

Norm in Fujino
04-22-2005, 09:07 AM
We'll see if ultrasonic cleaning is worthwhile in a couple of years. If the system doesn't fail, or cause imager misalignment, then it's a winner. I have a feeling that the other guys are waiting for the test of time.

I'm in the minority here, so I'm certainly not going to be casting aspersions on anyone's choice of toy. Whatever floats your boat, as they say. FWIW--and my info is just as anecdotal as the next guy's--the E-1 has been around for nearly two years and I've heard no notices of any kind of SSWF failure or imager misalgnment, although they could all fall apart tomorrow, I know :eek: .


Note: It also adds to start-up time.
Note 2: Of almost 7000 shots on my non-ultrasonic dSLR, I have only noticed dust twice, and by the time I went to clean it it had shaken itself loose.

As they say, your mileage may vary. :D Anyone with an interest can find both yea and nay stories about dust on the various photography sites. I don't think it's as horrible a problem as some people make out, but I've definitely heard wailing and moaning from some quarters.

The SSWF is not actually vibrating the imager, by the way, but a screen in front of the imager, so there's little way I can see imager misalignment could occur. I'm personally not a hyperkinetic photographer, so a two-second wait isn't the sacrifice that some people find--as dust isn't a bother to you. Different strokes--and it's nice that we have choices.

Like most of the other participants here, I don't believe the presence of the SSWF is a deal-closer. But nice to have? Obviously. Just like pixel mapping. Dust and hot pixels are two fewer things to worry about . . . And I sympathize with all who have had to deal with dishonest or pushy store personnel--that's just crazy no matter what your choice is. I wouldn't want to be told I was wasting my money buying whatever I'd decided on, either. ;)

DiJ
04-22-2005, 09:42 AM
I was the local electronics store to check out the XTwhen it XT first appeared. Just like the rest of you I acted a little dumb I ask the salesman on his recommendation. He recommended the D70 over the rebel XT. thats fine with me since D70 is a excellent camera too. But what surprised me is the reasons he gave. According to him:

D70 has faster cont. shooting of 5fps, more durable magnesium body, metal lens mount, better print quality despite the lower resolution.

Then goes on to say mirror flip up is useless and the XT does not have it either. Infact anything goes to help me decide on the D70. I really wonder why sale people are so desperate to sell the D70. Even going the extreme to mislead their customers.

D70FAN
04-22-2005, 09:57 AM
I'm in the minority here, so I'm certainly not going to be casting aspersions on anyone's choice of toy. Whatever floats your boat, as they say. FWIW--and my info is just as anecdotal as the next guy's--the E-1 has been around for nearly two years and I've heard no notices of any kind of SSWF failure or imager misalgnment, although they could all fall apart tomorrow, I know :eek: .



As they say, your mileage may vary. :D Anyone with an interest can find both yea and nay stories about dust on the various photography sites. I don't think it's as horrible a problem as some people make out, but I've definitely heard wailing and moaning from some quarters.

The SSWF is not actually vibrating the imager, by the way, but a screen in front of the imager, so there's little way I can see imager misalignment could occur. I'm personally not a hyperkinetic photographer, so a two-second wait isn't the sacrifice that some people find--as dust isn't a bother to you. Different strokes--and it's nice that we have choices.

Like most of the other participants here, I don't believe the presence of the SSWF is a deal-closer. But nice to have? Obviously. Just like pixel mapping. Dust and hot pixels are two fewer things to worry about . . . And I sympathize with all who have had to deal with dishonest or pushy store personnel--that's just crazy no matter what your choice is. I wouldn't want to be told I was wasting my money buying whatever I'd decided on, either. ;)

As always, good points. I certainly wouldn't mind the extra insurance of a self cleaning sensor, so I'm definately not knocking it. It's a nice feature.

D70FAN
04-22-2005, 10:02 AM
I was the local electronics store to check out the XTwhen it XT first appeared. Just like the rest of you I acted a little dumb I ask the salesman on his recommendation. He recommended the D70 over the rebel XT. thats fine with me since D70 is a excellent camera too. But what surprised me is the reasons he gave. According to him:

D70 has faster cont. shooting of 5fps, more durable magnesium body, metal lens mount, better print quality despite the lower resolution.

Then goes on to say mirror flip up is useless and the XT does not have it either. Infact anything goes to help me decide on the D70. I really wonder why sale people are so desperate to sell the D70. Even going the extreme to mislead their customers.

Depending on the store there may be incentives. My son works for one of the major camera chains and they have promotions from different manufacturers all the time. I know in my sons case that he listens to what customers need and recommends several choices based on their requirements. I've found this to be true with many of the stores in this camera chain.

Sounds like your sales guy was mixing features from several cameras. :rolleyes: I have seen this many times at some of the major electronics stores.

DiJ
04-22-2005, 10:44 AM
Good for your son. I had enough of dishonest salesmen. I am sure they can mix up some of the specs but making this up is questionable. You are right maybe there are incentives to clear old stocks beside the new ones. Or maybe just because the D70 is the more popular camera here.

nate
04-22-2005, 04:08 PM
One even told me he thought I would only get about 80 pictures on a 1G card, so I needed to buy a 2G. Please.......

Not to defend incompetent salespeople, but... if you shot Raw + JPEG with the XT, a 1 gig card would hold around 80 images. :)

aparmley
04-22-2005, 04:46 PM
Not to defend incompetent salespeople, but... if you shot Raw + JPEG with the XT, a 1 gig card would hold around 80 images. :)

IMO you aren't defending him at all, you are simply making the point that he left out why she would only get 80pics on 1 gig card... Leaving out information on purpose in an attempt to alter the consumers purchasing decision because of whatever motivation you have in doing so is wrong.

DiJ
04-22-2005, 06:19 PM
Now this is the way to treat a customer.


:D This thread is the greatest! It's like the honesty police!

I'm afraid that I have to ruin everyone's good time with a nice story. About a week ago I had a meeting in downtown Manhattan. I was 15 minutes early and knew that J&R was just around the corner. The light bulb in my head went off and flashed "Camera Time"! So I went to their SLR store (J&R has serveral stores all in a row selling different electornoics and such), walked up to the counter and said "Can you let me see both the Pentax *ist DS and the Canon XT?" 30 seconds later, both cameras were on the counter. I said "I just want to play with them both for a while." the salesman said o.k. and said if I needed anything or had any questions to just ask and then he left me alone as I walked round the store shooting with both cameras. Around 10-minutes later after deciding that the XT was made for me I said to him "I'm surprised at how light the XT is". and he replied, "If it were my money, I'd go with the XT...it compares favorably to the 20D...but I like the viewfinder on the Pentax better". And you know what? I liked the viewfinder on the Pentax better as well. I looked at my watch, realized I was about to be late...which was probably a good thing, since I was just about to say "I'll take the XT"...after just spending $500.00 on the SD500 (also bought at J&R)! I told him I had to run, and thanked him...he said "Here's my card...if you have any questions about either camera, give me a call." Well you know what? When it's time to buy, he's getting the sale. He knew his cameras and treated me as someone who knew cameras as well. In New York, no less...go figure... :D

Bob Bowen
04-26-2005, 10:05 AM
Hi Stacy, I'm a complete newbie with digital slr's. We have only one within reasonable driving distance of me. I didn't even own a digital slr and went into the store. The personel didn't know anything about the cameras in stock and got a bewildered look when I said I needed a camera with bulb setting and manual controls. Unless you want a point and shoot, which is what a already had, the store was a joke. There was a better selection and much better prices at Best Buy. Probably the same knowledge level too. I say, Thank God for forums like this one. I lurked for a few months before buying and (for now) am very happy with my 300d. I am having a ball learning and will be using it for astro photography too. Quite a learning curve there but I'm a willing student.

Bob Bowen Durand Mi USA

cwphoto
05-09-2005, 09:40 PM
How do you guys find the sales people at B&H in New York?

Rhys
05-10-2005, 05:51 AM
I found Columbia Photo on Devine St, Columbia, SC to be pretty good. They're photographic specialists rather than box shifters like Ritz, Best Buy, K-Mart, Dollar General etc. When I went there, the shop was quiet with no pounding, thumping noise-pollution coming from any speakers. The salesmen knew exactly what they were talking about. I could try and compare different bodies. They didn't have two of the cameras I'd have liked to have tested (Pentax and Olympus), explaining that they just weren't as popular as the Canons or Nikons. Now that I can believe. I have no gripes with any shop that specialises in the real mainstream manufacturers. Heck, I used to buy most of my Nikon stuff from Grays of Westminster, who sell only Nikon and nothing else. Columbia Photo was about 10% more expensive than the internet but that's fine. I'd much rather support an independent that knows what they're selling than some clueless box-shifter and I'm not entirely happy making big purchases via the internet. When I look at the internet prices, they're 10% less but when I factor in the cost of returns etc, the saving is negligable. I've had to return cameras before because of defects so I won't buy them over the web. Lenses are another issue entirely however. I've bought lenses by mail on many occasions and always been happy.

MissJezabelle
05-23-2005, 10:10 AM
uuhhgg We have kits camera here, which is owned by Ritz. And I get the same thing from them.

JTL
05-23-2005, 09:47 PM
How do you guys find the sales people at B&H in New York?We walk up to the counter and they're standing right there! :D

Seriously, the ones I've dealt with are very nonchalant, which I like...

rinume
06-18-2005, 01:08 AM
I bought my S2 IS at Circuit City in Houston. I called them up beforehand and they had 2 in stock. Wohoo! LOL! So you can imagine I rushed over ... hey its just 2 in stock.

Looked thru all the cameras on display it wasn't there. Asked the sales person and he looked thru all the display cameras and then the ones stored in the cabinets below. Nothing!!! Then he went off to find someone since he wasn't from the camera department. Seems like it was a pretty busy time since he couldn't manage to get hold of anyone. So there I was waiting waiting waiting. Turns out the camera was stored at the back. So he gets me the box and I can't even open it and look at it cos its not a display item. So I buy the camera without even looking at it which I did as soon as I had paid for the item :)

So this went smoothly except for the wait. But we had to spend like 20 minutes listening to another guy trying to sell us some accident insurance on a laptop. We had to tell him 3 times that no we don't want it 'cos we don't live in the US ... guess what he still went on and on as to how important it was and we should get it and send the laptop back to the US via someone (who will drop from the skies at the perfect moment lol) to get it repaired if we ever need to.

Oh and of course he forgot to mention that the laptop came with a printer that cost $10 after rebate and a router they paid you to buy after rebates lol. We happily bought the laptop and were on our way when my cousin called asking if we had gotten the printer. Ok back to Circuit City. All we got was a Oh Sorry out of him. But well we got our printer lol.

Our Best Buy experience wasn't bad either. The lady that we talked to knew what she was talking about - well she owned the item herself lol. But nevertheless very customer friendly.

All our bad experiences were at the airport lol. Well actually just one ... we managed to miss our flight on Memorial Weekend ... guess the rest ;-)

SnowSpyder86
06-18-2005, 11:33 AM
That didnt make me laugh, and now i just wasted my time :mad:

docnesh
06-20-2005, 05:48 AM
These stories are about right from what I've observed... First a few observations... RITZ CAMERA: I walked into one of the stores (to try out and feel tripods and camera bags before ordering online). I am all for supporting local businesses but ehwn they charge you as much as TRIPLE what it is online fiscal responsibility demands otherwise. I actually told tthe guy, 350$, this is only 150$ online. The guy was nice and explained that in the stores Ritz deals only with the MSRP and thats hwo their commisions are set, if you go to their website you CAN find it as a more competitive price. So all I can say is DONT buy any big ticket items at a place like this, small things its fine the markup is reasonable. The same is true for best buy but not as bad, the best indicator is to price something like the 350D or the 20D. Also the markup on camera bodies is different than on Lenses versus other accessories. I've dealt with B&H and have found them to be the best mix of price competitiveness and selection/reputable e-tailer. I have yet to make it to one of their stores though, they keep very strange hours and are never open when I'm in manhattan :(

Bottom line is my advice is, until places like Ritz even TRY to be competitive order online unless you need the item immediately. Places like this are great to go and see/try out camera bags, tripod mounts, etc.

--Jeff

D70FAN
06-21-2005, 12:19 PM
These stories are about right from what I've observed... First a few observations... RITZ CAMERA: I walked into one of the stores (to try out and feel tripods and camera bags before ordering online). I am all for supporting local businesses but ehwn they charge you as much as TRIPLE what it is online fiscal responsibility demands otherwise. I actually told tthe guy, 350$, this is only 150$ online. The guy was nice and explained that in the stores Ritz deals only with the MSRP and thats hwo their commisions are set, if you go to their website you CAN find it as a more competitive price. So all I can say is DONT buy any big ticket items at a place like this, small things its fine the markup is reasonable. The same is true for best buy but not as bad, the best indicator is to price something like the 350D or the 20D. Also the markup on camera bodies is different than on Lenses versus other accessories. I've dealt with B&H and have found them to be the best mix of price competitiveness and selection/reputable e-tailer. I have yet to make it to one of their stores though, they keep very strange hours and are never open when I'm in manhattan :(

Bottom line is my advice is, until places like Ritz even TRY to be competitive order online unless you need the item immediately. Places like this are great to go and see/try out camera bags, tripod mounts, etc.

--Jeff

Re-read your post from the point-of-view of the retailer and the person who's living depends on you buying the equipment that you just tried. When was the last time B&H sent you cameras, lenses, and accessories to try out? When was the last time you complained about out-sourcing jobs to other countries?

I have always found retailers to sell at MSRP or slightly below. If you see a 300% difference then alert the store manager so he can take it up with their sales rep. I have never seen an item selling at B&H for 3 times less than anywhere else...or even half. The typical difference is 10%-15% if any.

Don't like sales tax? Move to Oregon. You can see what great fiscal shape they are in.

Places like Ritz, Wolf, and the few local independent camera stores that remain, are as competitive as volume and fixed costs will allow.

When these stores are out of business, where will you go to try the latest and greatest? Best Buy? Circuit City? Frys?!!!! Try out their selection of lenses and speedlights while you're there...

JTL
06-21-2005, 12:31 PM
Re-read your post from the point-of-view of the retailer and the person who's living depends on you buying the equipment that you just tried. When was the last time B&H sent you cameras, lenses, and accessories to try out? When was the last time you complained about out-sourcing jobs to other countries?

I have always found retailers to sell at MSRP or slightly below. If you see a 300% difference then alert the store manager so he can take it up with their sales rep. I have never seen an item selling at B&H for 3 times less than anywhere else...or even half. The typical difference is 10%-15% if any.

Don't like sales tax? Move to Oregon. You can see what great fiscal shape they are in.

Places like Ritz, Wolf, and the few local independent camera stores that remain, are as competitive as volume and fixed costs will allow.

When these stores are out of business, where will you go to try the latest and greatest? Best Buy? Circuit City? Frys?!!!! Try out their selection of lenses and speedlights while you're there...How true that is. I fear all of us who like to try-before-we-buy will mourn the day that the last camera retailer closes. I have yet to buy a camera or a lens online. Batteries...sure. Memory cards...of course. But for the stuff that matters, I need to hold it, comapare it, test shoot it and establish as much as a personal relationship with my perferred local dealer as possible. Shipping stuff back and forth constantly just wouldn't do it for me...although some people don't seem to mind...

Rhys
06-21-2005, 01:03 PM
How true that is. I fear all of us who like to try-before-we-buy will mourn the day that the last camera retailer closes. I have yet to buy a camera or a lens online. Batteries...sure. Memory cards...of course. But for the stuff that matters, I need to hold it, comapare it, test shoot it and establish as much as a personal relationship with my perferred local dealer as possible. Shipping stuff back and forth constantly just wouldn't do it for me...although some people don't seem to mind...

That's right and of course if you build up a good relationship with a dealer, he'll be helpful and will tell you which items are worthwhile and which are junk.

aparmley
06-21-2005, 03:31 PM
I agree with George JTL and Rhys - However, like I stated before, walking into a camera store and asking to look at the rebel XT and then get 35-40 minutes of Olympus E-300 talk and that camera shoved in your face is not exactly how I would try to make a living... I'd listen to the customer, they sell the XT too, why not sell the product that the customer came in for, why push something he didn't ask about... They need to learn a few things if they want to stay open. but thats just my local retail chain.. Maybe I should try a different location and I will... I think my next lens purchase will be locally just to see how it goes.. I know that the only thing that retailer carries for Canon is Canon and Promaster... LOL whats promaster? LOL ... :D but I have been told they can order lenses for me.. I am curious at what price.. and how long... we will see...

docnesh
06-21-2005, 08:00 PM
I thing Geroge misunderstands what I'm saying exactly... most consumer electronics have a MSRP and a "stree price". My issue with Ritz is not that they are a B&M store, in fact I don't mind paying a little extra to support a B&M store (brick and morter, ie not online). However Ritz routinely charges the MSRP, which even other B&M stores do not. This is their corporate policy... I have purchased small items and camera bags there, and I reluctantly did not purchase my tripod there as it was over 100$ difference in price.

Now you can choose to overpay for your gear all you want, I commend you on that but the problem is not us as consumers getting the best price we can... the problem is the best price NOT being available locally... oh and to edify you, I have have been to B&H, I personally have no problem with outsourcing jobs to New York :) if I was ordering my gear from Bangalore then maybe your indignation would have some value.

and lastly I live in New Hampshire, sales tax is not a factor for me at all. and I would not shed a single tear if Ritz did go out of business, I think they are among the leading offenders at misleading novice photographers into buying gear they don't need and in paying top dolalr for it...

docnesh
06-21-2005, 08:07 PM
George implies somehow that ritz is an independant, quaint mom & pop shop, it truely is not. Ritz camera are franchizes each store is indentured to the headquarters and is FORCED to get its inventory from them at prices that are in some cases HIGHER than what we pay ordering online. If you do not believe this you can verify this, go into ritz and price 3 or 4 items, then go home and go to ritz's website online and price the same items... ritz online will give you a better deal than the store in your local mall.

This information I got from a lengthy conversation with a salesperson at Ritz when i expressed disappointment at not being able to buy the items I wanted from him. Perhaps I should order a lot of stuff from B&H and then set up a lemonade stand on the corner and re-sell everything at MSRP :)

JTL
06-21-2005, 08:34 PM
Sometimes we in New York don't realize/forget how lucky we are to have B&H, J&R, Adorama and others as "local" stores (as well as Best Buy, Circuit City, etc.)…which means for us that there's at least some competition on the street as well as the web...

Sometimes I say to people "just go to the store and check it out/get it", but I'm becoming more sensitive to the fact that it's not always possible for some...

D70FAN
06-22-2005, 07:08 AM
George implies somehow that ritz is an independant, quaint mom & pop shop, it truely is not. Ritz camera are franchizes each store is indentured to the headquarters and is FORCED to get its inventory from them at prices that are in some cases HIGHER than what we pay ordering online. If you do not believe this you can verify this, go into ritz and price 3 or 4 items, then go home and go to ritz's website online and price the same items... ritz online will give you a better deal than the store in your local mall.

This information I got from a lengthy conversation with a salesperson at Ritz when i expressed disappointment at not being able to buy the items I wanted from him. Perhaps I should order a lot of stuff from B&H and then set up a lemonade stand on the corner and re-sell everything at MSRP :)

George did not imply anything. I was simply stating that camera stores are disappearing, and sooner or later will be gone. In large-part due to practices of trying in-store and buying on-line. And when you try several of the latest cameras in a local camera store and then buy on-line you have esentially cost them their livelyhood.

Even franchises are owned by an independent business person making an investment and risking capitol. If that business does not pay off then that independent franchisee takes his money elsewhere. The net result is a closed store and one less place to go try and buy. Additionally, it costs decent entry level jobs.

Making Ritz, or any other large chain, to be an evil empire is kind of unfair in the scheme of things. It's ironic that they allow you to spend their time and resources, and then you go on-line and bash them.

Like everything else, there are good stores and bad stores. Unfortunately you seem to have a bad store. Although, someone was nice enough to spend time explaining the corporate supply chain. Try that on line. Fortunately for me I have 3 good stores (1 Ritz and 2 independents) in my area, and I am willing to pay an extra 10%-15% (plus tax) for the convenience, selection, and learning relationship, without faulting their sales force, or their motives.

That was my point.

Ray Schnoor
06-22-2005, 07:14 AM
I'm not sure about everything in the store, but in my local Ritz, the camera prices in store are the same as the Ritz website. The only difference is the tax.

Ray.

Rhys
06-22-2005, 07:24 AM
I'm not sure about everything in the store, but in my local Ritz, the camera prices in store are the same as the Ritz website. The only difference is the tax.

Ray.

I didn't even find much difference in the tax - there was a coupon shoved in our mailbox offering $50 off. That pretty much covered the tax :D Otherwise I'd have gone further afield to Columbia Photo.

Actually, that day I knew what camera I wanted, walked into Ritz, asked for the camera and produced my plastic. The only delay was caused by the anti-fraud department of my CC company checking rather enthusiastically on the transaction. The chap in Ritz was quite appologetic about it but cheered up when I told him that I didn't mind in the slightest and was very pleased to see my CC company was looking out for me.