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JTL
04-17-2005, 09:39 AM
O.K.

I can't help myself...I guess I'm just a born trouble maker...

We now have two in-depth reviews (here and at dpreview) of the Canon XT/350D in which both reviewers found virtually no difference in the image quality between the 20D and the 350D (I sure as heck can't see any). Now...there is no one I know of or ever heard of who seems to claim that the Nikon D70 produces better images (given the same lens) than the 20D. So, I ask, how can anyone claim that the Nikon D70 produces better images (on a purely technical basis) then the 350D? I think a lot of people may have to rethink their assumptions...

I know there are a LOT more things that go into it for users besides image quality (like a metal body for one), but on image quality alone...if you think the 20D is better than the D70 is, then you must think the 350D is better whether you're consciously aware of it or not...

Just throwing it out there (or stirring the pot, it may seem) for discussion...to see what people are thinking. Thanks!

gary_hendricks
04-17-2005, 10:00 AM
Well, if you guys are interested - this web page (http://www.digitalreview.ca/cams/NikonD70versusRebelXT.shtml#Advantage) has a side by side comparison of the XT versus the D70. Knock yourselves out ;)

JTL
04-17-2005, 10:15 AM
Well, if you guys are interested - this web page (http://www.digitalreview.ca/cams/NikonD70versusRebelXT.shtml#Advantage) has a side by side comparison of the XT versus the D70. Knock yourselves out ;)My real question is around perception...the general perception that the 20D is superior to the D70...but if the XT is essentially the same...well, now it becomes very interesting to see what people really think (if they're willing to say). I can't be the only one thinking about this...other people must be turning this over in their minds (some of them over and over and over...) :)

Enough silliness...I'm going out to shoot! :cool:

Blue Star
04-17-2005, 05:29 PM
This is a debate which will never result in any conclusion.

Both 20D & D70 are great camera. Lets not talk about xT as it is a new born baby & is yet to prive its potential in field (unless you trust some reviews more than yourself)

As one of the members here said: if you look at two good pictures & cant figure out which one was shot with which camera, then camera are very comparable.
I guess this is very true. Now there may be other reasons why one would stick to any particular productline.

So keep yourself free from this debate & enjoy shooting :)

just for records, I have always been a canon user (powershot s40, G3, 20D) but have all resopect for D70 also.

mcenut
04-19-2005, 12:23 PM
I looked at the D70, XT and 20D. I didn't let image quality be a factor in my choice. I looked at each camera for what it offered. In the end the Nikon D70 lost out due to the moire problem that it shares with all Nikon digital cameras. The Canon XT lost out due to size and lack of some features. The Canon 20D was the best choice for me. It may not be the best choice for all.

My recomendation is to buy what you like.

aparmley
04-19-2005, 03:09 PM
Well, I agree with what you have said here JTL. However, I am a little confused about why you are searching for perception...but anywho... I have indeed read the reviews that claim the 20D produces better picture quality than the D70 and I have also read reviews that claim the 350D produces images identical to the 20D. However, I have also read plenty of user reviews that in the field they just can't get the 350D to focus on what they want. Who's "claimed" real-world results do you listen to?
In addition to the image quality I think there are a lot of people talking about total value. I myself am struggling with this. I intend to buy the 350D but I am a little leary after reading a lot of the focus problems with the camera. But then again I have seen a lot of great looking pictures taken with the 350D and its so called cheap kit lens. Kind of a wash there, then you have the D70 being offered in a two lens kit [18-70mm, 70-300mm] for $1200. that would be less than if I bought the 350D with lens kit and purchased a tonika 24-200mm lens. I have read that the Nikon lenses are of higher quality. So this presents a problem for me. I really want a Digital SLR for two big reasons, speed and the ability to increase focal lenght. the high ISO quality of the 350D was the icing on the cake so to speak... but... its hard to rule out that two lens combo.... Scratching my head over here... I really want the 350D but... theres a reason why this D70 keeps popping back into my head... :confused:

D70FAN
04-19-2005, 04:40 PM
Well, I agree with what you have said here JTL. However, I am a little confused about why you are searching for perception...but anywho... I have indeed read the reviews that claim the 20D produces better picture quality than the D70 and I have also read reviews that claim the 350D produces images identical to the 20D. However, I have also read plenty of user reviews that in the field they just can't get the 350D to focus on what they want. Who's "claimed" real-world results do you listen to?
In addition to the image quality I think there are a lot of people talking about total value. I myself am struggling with this. I intend to buy the 350D but I am a little leary after reading a lot of the focus problems with the camera. But then again I have seen a lot of great looking pictures taken with the 350D and its so called cheap kit lens. Kind of a wash there, then you have the D70 being offered in a two lens kit [18-70mm, 70-300mm] for $1200. that would be less than if I bought the 350D with lens kit and purchased a tonika 24-200mm lens. I have read that the Nikon lenses are of higher quality. So this presents a problem for me. I really want a Digital SLR for two big reasons, speed and the ability to increase focal lenght. the high ISO quality of the 350D was the icing on the cake so to speak... but... its hard to rule out that two lens combo.... Scratching my head over here... I really want the 350D but... theres a reason why this D70 keeps popping back into my head... :confused:

You really need to see which one really fits your shooting style. If you like a compact lightweight camera then the XT will probably be a good choice. If you like something a little beefier then go with the D70. You really can't make a bad decision here, and that includes all of the dSLR's out there. When printed you will not be able to tell the difference.

aparmley
04-19-2005, 06:17 PM
Thank you George! I appreciate your advice... I need to keep reminding myself that you are right, both are excellent cameras and to have either one would be a great thing. I do like the size of the D70. I am posting a Question over in the Nikon digital SLR Forums about the NEF file format perhaps you can answer it.

Bluedog
04-20-2005, 06:10 PM
I think that the focus issue is relevant to all cameras in the fact that some people rely on the cameras AF sensor to do the focusing. I for one have this old habit of always looking to the center for focus when the camera might select an object closer off center for focus. So as for that I haven't had any problems using the manual selection AF Point and concentrating on where I want the focus to be. If the subject is off center I just rotate the thumb dial to the selected area.

JTL
04-20-2005, 07:34 PM
I think that the focus issue is relevant to all cameras in the fact that some people rely on the cameras AF sensor to do the focusing. I for one have this old habit of always looking to the center for focus when the camera might select an object closer off center for focus. So as for that I haven't had any problems using the manual selection AF Point and concentrating on where I want the focus to be. If the subject is off center I just rotate the thumb dial to the selected area.Bluedog...you are on the money again, as usual. Some people seem to have a difficult time with Canon's focusing system. You even see this on the point-and-shoot models. Maybe it's not intuitive enough (although it doesn't bother me). But as with most things, patience and practice is rewarded with great results. I will say, out of the box, other brand's auto-focusing systems seem to be easier to learn how to use correctly. Does that make them better? I guess for some people, that's a yes.

But, I can't help but object when people say that Canon's don't focus well when it's the user who doesn't learn how to use the focusing system well. People can slam the system for being harder to use, maybe...but they surely can't slam the focusing system if used correctly. It's as good as it gets.

JTL
04-20-2005, 07:40 PM
Well, I agree with what you have said here JTL. However, I am a little confused about why you are searching for perception...Because perception is reality...there is no objective truth in matters subjective...