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View Full Version : New Digital RebelXT vs 20D



JayK
04-04-2005, 04:56 PM
Opinions, please.
I have been drooling over the Canon 20D, but now see the company was released a much-improved version of the Rebel--which costs $500 less.

My question: does anyone KNOW by experience or hearsay if there is now a great similarity to the models? I would rather spend the extra money on a better lens if the cameras are really close. :confused:

Blue Star
04-04-2005, 05:16 PM
Welcome to the forum.
Seems like you are also a new member like me :-)


Ok, check this link
http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/eos_digital_rebel_xt_vs_20d.html

You can find a good comparison between the two models you are looking for.
I guess this link will answer most of your questions at technical level. If Xt can cater all your photography needs than by all means get Xt & spend extra bucks on quality glass. If not then you will have to go with 20D.

Also note that at this point Xt is very new & its field performance is yet to be evaluated, while 20D has been in market for a while & all its shortcomings have been fixed in firmwire upgrades.

Hope this will be of some help :)

JayK
04-04-2005, 05:24 PM
Thanks. Perhaps it's best to let it be in the field for a while and then read more.

eagle17
04-04-2005, 05:30 PM
you can do amazing things with the Dreb and it is $200 less than the XT so why not get this camera..


What I am trying to say is that there are options that you do not have on the reb like pc sync for external studio flash. that is just one there are plenty of other places to find a direct comparison of features. It all comes down to what you want to do and how much you can spend... I decided that the max I would spend on a dslr is $1400 and that is what I paid for my 20D kit.I also decided that I like the size and weight of the 20D and the controls better that the dreb. and of course the speed. I would not pass up the 20D for the XT just to buy a half a lens. but like I said you can take great pictures with the original rebal so it is really up to what features you want and what you can spend....

Blue Star
04-04-2005, 05:48 PM
Jay

Eagle just made the point.
Ultimately you got to decide what your requirements/preferences are, how much you are willing to spend & which camera can serve it best. Basically what I call techno-economics :)

I am sure if you wait for sometime, you will see newer versions of camera coming. Its a never ending stream. So what I would say is, look at the specs, your budget, your taste & go for the camera which serves it. Dont think a new release is best way to go. Companies will always offer new features so that they can sell their products. Point is what you need ...

JayK
04-04-2005, 05:52 PM
By waiting I meant to see how it fares after people have it in their hands for a while.
Do you folks have an opinion on the 18-55 vs the 17-85. The later is very pricey, but gives me the longer focal length I want. I assume third-party brands do not at all compare to Canon quality. Also, I think the 17-85 offers the UMS factor, where the kit lens does not.

Further thoughts

Blue Star
04-04-2005, 06:02 PM
Do you folks have an opinion on the 18-55 vs the 17-85. The later is very pricey, but gives me the longer focal length I want. I assume third-party brands do not at all compare to Canon quality. Also, I think the 17-85 offers the UMS factor, where the kit lens does not.

Further thoughts

Kit lens is not the greatest lens out there although it may be good value for its cost. Compared to it, I will say 17-85 is better.
Although I wouldnt say that third party brands dont compare to canon at all.
All companies (including canon) produce great lenses & crap too.
As a starter lens, you may want to check Sigma 18-125 f3.5-5.6 DC. Its a very good value for money.

Bluedog
04-04-2005, 06:18 PM
I'll speak up and say I'm really enjoying my Rebel XT so far. The improvements made over the Rebel 300D as well as the size (medium size hands here) and portability were strong points I liked.

The Kit lens is good for what it is but you just can't expect professionally quality results from it. If Canon had made it more of an 18-75mm I probably wouldn't have just ordered the Sigma 18-125mm to replace it.

speaklightly
04-04-2005, 06:53 PM
Yes, I agree. Ergonomically the Canon 35o XT has an advantage. It comes quite close to the image output of the 20D and is just a nice all around digital camera.

How do I know? Because we own a Nikon D-70, a Canon 20D, and a Canon 350 XT. We have, what you might call, a lot of "in hand" experience.

Sarah Joyce

Blue Star
04-04-2005, 07:20 PM
Yes, I agree. Ergonomically the Canon 35o XT has an advantage. It comes quite close to the image output of the 20D and is just a nice all around digital camera.

How do I know? Because we own a Nikon D-70, a Canon 20D, and a Canon 350 XT. We have, what you might call, a lot of "in hand" experience.

Sarah Joyce

I am impressed with your choices :)
I dont see many people owning DSLR's from both brands

DiJ
04-05-2005, 04:40 AM
I was the Canons customer care the other day and had the chance for an unhurried test session with both cameras. Here are my findings:

Build quality- 20d is quite alot bigger but still feels manageable. The magnesium body has a textured rubber surface that feels expensive and gives you assuring grip. The 350d has plastic body but feels reasonably solid. I'd say better than the 300d (slightly creaky when squeezed). The grip fits me well but not as comfortably as 20d. However 350d is also much lighter. Unlike 20d theres little to no strain on the arm after using for some time.

Performance- I tested the AF in reasonably bright indoors at 1/50sec f/3.5 iso200. Both with efs18-55mm lens. Both are very fast. Maybe 20d a touch faster but not much difference in AF speed that I can tell. Burst mode with 20d is indeed much faster. Specs says 3fps for 350d and 5fps for 20d. I like the shutter sound of 350d better. Its quieter and feels snappier.

Ergonomics- @0d has the advantage. On 20d there are two main dials one behind the shutter release and one on the back. Operating the camera in manual exposure is easy one dial controls shutter and the other the aperture. With 350d main dial changes shutter, for changing aperture you need to hold down the 'AV' button while turning the dial. Not so convenient if you use manual exposure alot. On 20d changing iso is simply pressing 'iso' button and turning the main. On 350d you need to press 'iso' then select iso from the menu with the dial and press 'set' to comfirm the selection. Also Iso is not displayed on the shooting LCD. You need to press iso to check it in the menu LCD. That said I like the four way directional controller better on the 350d. The 20d uses a small and stiff little joystck with a jaggy end that hurts my thumb after using for a while. The 350d has a slightly smaller viewfinder possibly not so good for manual focusing.

Features- The 20d has a faster flash syncof 1/250sec compare to 1/200sec on 350d and iso is selectable from 100-3200 vs 100-1600 on 350d. That aside the 350d is alot closer to the 20d than the 300d to the 10d. User can now select between AI focus, Al servo and one shot on both 350d and 20d. Like 20d the 350d has selectable meterin modes and allows Flash compensation. One feature that I find very useful on both cameras is the WB shift function. You can shift the color balance of the camera in any direction on the color palette. Pictures too cool with AWB and too warm with daylight WB? Stick to AWB and shift the WB towards Amber. Too reddish? Shift WB towards blue and green. Not everyone has time shoot, convert, and adjust each and every picture in RAW. This feature lets you get closer to the color you want straight from the camera.

Image quality- The two are very alike. There are slight differences but they are negligible to me. Your preference may vary. Since i am no expect on testing nor do I have extensive experience with both its best to go to here for controlled tests of both cameras: http://imaging-resource.com

Hope you find this helpful.

Bluedog
04-05-2005, 05:06 AM
As for the XT you might want to think outside of the box.

LOL ... George your getting funnier by the post. For one who gave up on commenting about the XT you can't help but to still take jabs at it ... :D

gabester
04-05-2005, 07:25 AM
LOL ... George your getting funnier by the post. For one who gave up on commenting about the XT you can't help but to still take jabs at it ... :D

Yeah Bluedog...not only is the king naked, he's also flashing people. LOL

DiJ
04-05-2005, 09:21 AM
The King may be naked but he still looks hot!

D70FAN
04-05-2005, 09:52 AM
LOL ... George your getting funnier by the post. For one who gave up on commenting about the XT you can't help but to still take jabs at it ... :D

Doh! I did say that didn't I? consider it gone. :o

JayK, forget I said that.

gabester
04-05-2005, 12:38 PM
The King may be naked but he still looks hot!

DiJ, I spent too much time trying to interpret this statement from you. Here in the U.S., something that looks "hot" is something that looks sexy. So your remark, sounded out in my brain, comes out as "The king may be naked but he still looks sexy".

Perhaps what you meant was "The king may be naked but he still looks hot under the collar"?

D70FAN
04-05-2005, 03:15 PM
LOL ... George your getting funnier by the post. For one who gave up on commenting about the XT you can't help but to still take jabs at it ... :D

Yup. I agree. So I've pulled all of the potentially negative stuff off of the boards.

My appologies to all, I usually don't get this involved in negative comments, and I'm not sure why the XT struck such a negative chord. It is actually no worse than most of the consumer dSLR's out there. And if you like the small size and ergonomics then who am I to turn that into a negative.

The old saying "if you can't say something good, then don't say anything at all", applies.

D70FAN
04-05-2005, 05:43 PM
Yeah Bluedog...not only is the king naked, he's also flashing people. LOL

Nice to know that you know the story. ;)

D70FAN
04-05-2005, 06:02 PM
DiJ, I spent too much time trying to interpret this statement from you. Here in the U.S., something that looks "hot" is something that looks sexy. So your remark, sounded out in my brain, comes out as "The king may be naked but he still looks sexy".

Perhaps what you meant was "The king may be naked but he still looks hot under the collar"?

Yup. I probably deserve that. However, it's interesting to note that you continue to make this personal. I don't remember making disparaging remarks at your expense. In fact I believe that I was (really) impressed with your background in photography and digital cameras, and hopeful that you could add to the knowlege base here.

eagle17
04-05-2005, 07:04 PM
yeap this does it for me... george I personally may have had disagreements with you about the D70 vs 20D but I certainly never felt you ever made any personal remarks... I may have made some light-harded jabs at you from time to time but again I always ended with a J/k or some other aknwoledgement to the fact that it was entended to be light hearted.

due to the recent posts and personal attacks against in this thread I will be removing this forum from my place of usual haunts.

anyone looking for tips I highly recomend Fredmiranda.com.

D70FAN
04-05-2005, 07:36 PM
yeap this does it for me... george I personally may have had disagreements with you about the D70 vs 20D but I certainly never felt you ever made any personal remarks... I may have made some light-harded jabs at you from time to time but again I always ended with a J/k or some other aknwoledgement to the fact that it was entended to be light hearted.

due to the recent posts and personal attacks against in this thread I will be removing this forum from my place of usual haunts.

anyone looking for tips I highly recomend Fredmiranda.com.

Yup. It was always fun to spar on the technical merits. Again, I will probably hang around just to see what happens. I have been spending more time up at Rob G's site. If you are interested in the professional side you can pick up some good tips over there.

gabester
04-05-2005, 07:37 PM
Yup. I probably deserve that. However, it's interesting to note that you continue to make this personal. I don't remember making disparaging remarks at your expense. In fact I believe that I was (really) impressed with your background in photography and digital cameras, and hopeful that you could add to the knowlege base here.

George, I intended no offense whatsoever. In fact I should really apologize to DiJ since the quip was more about his unintentional idiom than anything. I seriously was trying to figure out what he meant; the connotation that "he still found you sexy" was just too funny not to comment on. As for being impressed with my background, don't be. A man (or woman!) should not be judged here by their equipment list or ability to spew out technical data. They should be judged on their photographs and their willingness to share. You are already well established on both fronts; I'm just getting started. Anyway, my sincere apologies if you considered my flippant remarks personal. :)

D70FAN
04-05-2005, 07:50 PM
George, I intended no offense whatsoever. In fact I should really apologize to DiJ since the quip was more about his unintentional idiom than anything. I seriously was trying to figure out what he meant; the connotation that "he still found you sexy" was just too funny not to comment on. As for being impressed with my background, don't be. A man (or woman!) should not be judged here by their equipment list or ability to spew out technical data. They should be judged on their photographs and their willingness to share. You are already well established on both fronts; I'm just getting started. Anyway, my sincere apologies if you considered my flippant remarks personal. :)

Thanks. Yup. Maybe I'm getting too thin-skinned after having the tar kicked out of me on the Canon dSLR site for suggesting that the XT might well be a sows ear. My opinion has not changed, but I will no longer share it.

So I decided to pull any opinion that I considered slightly condecending, and let the Canon "experts" charge home with the XT. With a good lens it might turn out to be a decent camera after all.

So have fun. I'll be around, just not on the Canon board.

DiJ
04-06-2005, 12:27 AM
Yup. I probably deserve that. However, it's interesting to note that you continue to make this personal. I don't remember making disparaging remarks at your expense. In fact I believe that I was (really) impressed with your background in photography and digital cameras, and hopeful that you could add to the knowlege base here.

Its really nothing personal George. That was just a fun statement. Not meant to be sarcastic or otherwise. And I am sure Gabester knows that. Lets have fun and focus on photography.

Gabester, I am not refering to Goerge as sexy. Why would I? I think what george meant by 'King is naked' is that rebel xt has limitations that we are not aware of. And why I said 'King still looks hot' is because some of us are fully aware of the cameras limitations but still happy with it. Thats all.

gabester
04-07-2005, 08:19 AM
Its really nothing personal George. That was just a fun statement. Not meant to be sarcastic or otherwise. And I am sure Gabester knows that. Lets have fun and focus on photography.

Gabester, I am not refering to Goerge as sexy. Why would I? I think what george meant by 'King is naked' is that rebel xt has limitations that we are not aware of. And why I said 'King still looks hot' is because some of us are fully aware of the cameras limitations but still happy with it. Thats all.

DiJ, maybe we were both just a tad tipsy when we took the Hans Christian Andersen allusion to new heights (or lows). Anyway, I've apologized to George for what he interpreted as a personal attack, and he's apologized to everyone (or to the Canon "experts", as he put it) for the "most people wouldn't know a 'great' camera if it bit them in the tail" remark. So, I'm happy to be back on track talking about photography:

Did you own the dReb before you got the XT? How do you feel about ISO/WB status now being displayed on the color LCD, rather than the monochrome LCD? Also, is it true that you have to press the SET button after you set ISO or WB? Alas, my XT is still on its way.

DiJ
04-07-2005, 05:57 PM
Thats right iso, wb and af mode are all changed on the clor LCD and needs set button to affect the change. But I guess you can get used to this pretty quickly. There have been complaints that the color LCD is near unreadable in daylight. I haven't tested the camera in these conditions but in bright indoor lighting it works fine on default brightness.

Looking forward to hear from your experience.

speaklightly
04-07-2005, 07:21 PM
George-

I feel just as you do. I have come back a little bit, but very minimal. As I said before: after almost 1,100 posts that I have made it is probably time to move on to other sites.

Sarah Joyce

D70FAN
04-07-2005, 08:39 PM
George-

I feel just as you do. I have come back a little bit, but very minimal. As I said before: after almost 1,100 posts that I have made it is probably time to move on to other sites.

Sarah Joyce

Sarah, Great. At least add some of that Southern Oregon coastline to the Photos forum. Otherwise Digideb will have a lot of Hiway 1 to cover. She sent a great shot of Point Arena Lighthouse.

Plus you own too many cameras to quit now. ;) I need to know that the XT actually works, and of course what you think of the D70 (you can sneak it in on the Nikon dSLR forum. It's pretty quiet there...remember? :rolleyes:

gabester
04-08-2005, 08:28 AM
Thanks. Yup. Maybe I'm getting too thin-skinned after having the tar kicked out of me on the Canon dSLR site for suggesting that the XT might well be a sows ear. My opinion has not changed, but I will no longer share it.

So I decided to pull any opinion that I considered slightly condecending, and let the Canon "experts" charge home with the XT. With a good lens it might turn out to be a decent camera after all.

So have fun. I'll be around, just not on the Canon board.

Not only are you still around, you're still sharing your opinion on the XT, and your comments still might be construed as being condescending towards people who admire the camera. :) So with a good lens it might turn out to be a decent camera? Is the D70 with a bad lens a decent camera? Since when does a good lens obviate a quality sensor or good image processing? If I recall, you need all of the above to produce a fine digital photo.


I need to know that the XT actually works, and of course what you think of the D70 (you can sneak it in on the Nikon dSLR forum. It's pretty quiet there...remember? :rolleyes:

The XT not only works, it's about the equal of the 20D in terms of photo quality. You profess admiration of the 20D (I hope those aren't just platitudes, since I agree with your contention that it's a great camera); well, here is a camera whose pictures would be virtually indistinguishable from it. Have you read the DP Review and Imaging Resource reviews of the XT, specifically pertaining to image comparisons with the 20D? Yes, it's not as fast and perhaps not as well-built as the 20D but it is significantly less expensive (I got mine for $819 *with lens*), lighter, smaller (my main reason for getting an XT and not a 20D). Bear in mind that this is an upgrade to the dReb, the entry-level Canon dSLR. I remember that you said that you liked that camera too. :)

I hope I haven't attacked anyone here; I'm just speaking my mind as you are. I also hope that there's no unspoken seniority rule here that precludes someone with 20 posts challenging someone with 2000 posts. If you feel like you have to continue to criticize the XT, go right on ahead; this is a public forum and a free country...but be prepared to encounter some polite, albeit stiff resistance. :D

gabester
04-08-2005, 08:32 AM
Thats right iso, wb and af mode are all changed on the clor LCD and needs set button to affect the change. But I guess you can get used to this pretty quickly. There have been complaints that the color LCD is near unreadable in daylight. I haven't tested the camera in these conditions but in bright indoor lighting it works fine on default brightness.

Looking forward to hear from your experience.

I guess it's just a matter of preference, but I like just turning a dial and having the parameter change instantly. Plus it'll save battery power if the color LCD is not invoked. Who knows, perhaps there'll be a firmware update for that or maybe Wasia or the Undutchables will write a hack for it. So I hope you don't get too used to the SET button confirmation. :D

DiJ
04-09-2005, 07:43 PM
I guess it's just a matter of preference, but I like just turning a dial and having the parameter change instantly. Plus it'll save battery power if the color LCD is not invoked. Who knows, perhaps there'll be a firmware update for that or maybe Wasia or the Undutchables will write a hack for it. So I hope you don't get too used to the SET button confirmation. :D

Same here thats my biggest complaint on the 350d. But I would take that over the 20d's mini joystick. I not too used to that for scrolling in playback mode. Talking about playback I do wonder how D70 users check their focus having only 4.7x magnification.