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View Full Version : dReb XT Shots Look Pretty Good To Me



JTL
04-02-2005, 05:24 PM
I hope George isn't reading this ;) ...but those dReb XT shots look pretty good to me...

I didn't want to have to go out and but a dSLR, but now I might have to...

BTW...my main criteria are size and weight...the smaller and lighter the better...I was previously considering a *ist D for this reason, but now the XT seems to fit the bill...

Bluedog
04-02-2005, 05:34 PM
Which ones are you referring to?

JTL
04-02-2005, 05:44 PM
Which ones are you referring to?Sorry...the ones that Jeff posted...

Bluedog
04-02-2005, 05:48 PM
The ones with the Sigma lens he used look better than the Kit lens for sure. Have you seen some of my XT/Kit lens results in the Photo Gallery section?

JTL
04-02-2005, 06:12 PM
The ones with the Sigma lens he used look better than the Kit lens for sure. Have you seen some of my XT/Kit lens results in the Photo Gallery section?Thanks! Great shots! I don't think that the kit lens is half as bad as everyone makes it sound...

Bluedog
04-02-2005, 06:42 PM
I tend to agree with you as I've gotten some pretty nice results with mine.

Rex914
04-02-2005, 10:14 PM
This is specifically NOT a Canon comment, but if you plan on buying a DSLR AND if you are luck enough to have a Micro Center store nearby, hold off on your purchase for a week. They are most likely doing their 20% off all digital cameras promotion as they always do around that time. 20% off on any DSLR is a HUGE amount of money saved. Heck, you could almost get a 20D for the price of a D70 or XT normally with 20% off. :)

However, don't lynch me if this doesn't happen this year or happens later than I said. I'm only predicting this based on what's happened the past 4 years in a row.

gary_hendricks
04-02-2005, 10:41 PM
George officially doesn't care anymore. Buy whatever the heck you want. It's your $$$.

Oh dear - you guys having some argument here? :(

Rex914
04-02-2005, 10:57 PM
BTW...my main criteria are size and weight...the smaller and lighter the better...I was previously considering a *ist D for this reason, but now the XT seems to fit the bill...

I hope you meant the *ist DS. The original costs $500 more and is a less refined camera.

If size and weight are important, then you really only have 2 choices right now: the XT and the *ist DS. With no brand loyalty at hand before, I could have recommended the Rebel if picture quality was important and the Pentax for better build quality and features. Now with the XT, I can no longer recommend the Pentax. Despite what I'm hearing, Canon did improve quite a bit on the original and actually placed in many of the missing features from the original Rebel. The XT is a much stronger entrant than the Pentax, plus you have a much better and larger lens lineup.

There is the Nikon D50 around the corner, but that isn't coming for months into the stores and we have close to no info. on that. I have a strong hunch though that it will Nikon's "compact DSLR." Consumers like you are sparking the creation of the compact DSLR market, and you should be proud to be taking part in this. :)

JTL
04-03-2005, 12:19 AM
I hope you meant the *ist DS. The original costs $500 more and is a less refined camera.Yes...I most certainly meant the DS.

Now with the XT, I can no longer recommend the Pentax. Despite what I'm hearing, Canon did improve quite a bit on the original and actually placed in many of the missing features from the original Rebel. The XT is a much stronger entrant than the Pentax, plus you have a much better and larger lens lineup.I could not have expressed what I was thinking better myself. I've been to the store several times to play with the *ist DS. I was almost ready to commit and out comes the 350D. Now, am I really going to buy the Pentax over the Canon? I don't think that's gonna happen, although I've have spent practically no time with the 350D in my hands. Just knowing it's out there is somehow comforting, though. I just spent $500.00 on my new toy, the SD500...so I don't feel like I have to rush out and get it...but once the weather starts improving, the photo bug starts biting...

Thanks for the feedback!

ReF
04-03-2005, 12:50 AM
the pentax got a decent review on dpreview.com but i agree that canon d-slrs have a stronger lens line-up, which was my main reason for going with canon.

TheObiJuan
04-03-2005, 03:43 AM
the shots look good to me.
If you can get a 20D though for cheap, I would.

gary_hendricks
04-03-2005, 03:59 AM
A compact DSLR market? Any ideas which cameras fit this bill?

24Peter
04-03-2005, 08:08 PM
After coming thisssss close to buying the Pentax DS, I went down to my local Ritz camera and played with both the DS and Rebel XT an over an hour. The XT pretty much won me over - it's lighter by almost 50% (the DS takes 4 AA batteries which put it over the edge weight-wise for me) and has a slightly smaller grip. That, plus the mediocre .jpeg image quality and smaller sensor on the Pentax pretty much made the XT my only choice. I called Dell the other night and ordered one. I asked for (and got) 15% off (I heard they had some kind of coupon for digital cameras) so ended up with the XT (black body) and kit lens for $849. Should arrive this week.

I really wanted to go with the Pentax but spending time with the XT did it for me.

Rex914
04-03-2005, 11:49 PM
A compact DSLR market? Any ideas which cameras fit this bill?

Yep. The *ist DS and the XT. Hopefully, the D50 will be joining this bunch soon. I predict that this market will eventually replace the high end fixed lens market that's already dying out anyways.

jeisner
04-04-2005, 12:28 AM
that, plus the mediocre .jpeg image quality

Far from Mediocre where talking about a difference you don't see in print and can barely see on the screen without a 200% crop... Admittadly I use RAW anyway, but I have tested it and the resolution difference is very slight in real world use!!!


and smaller sensor on the Pentax pretty much made the XT my only choice

Ohh and a factual error correction, the Pentax has a larger sensor!!!

Pentax = 23.5 x 15.7 mm CCD sensor (1.5 crop)
Canon XT = 22.2 x 14.8 mm CMOS sensor (1.6 crop)

ReF
04-04-2005, 01:37 AM
Far from Mediocre where talking about a difference you don't see in print and can barely see on the screen without a 200% crop... Admittadly I use RAW anyway, but I have tested it and the resolution difference is very slight in real world use!!!

sorry bud, but i have to agree with the jpegs looking mediocre from the samples on dpreview.com i mean, one of the main reasons for dslrs and expensive lenses is detail and pic quality right? in the pentax's defense though it's true that you probably couldn't see much of a difference in medium to small sized prints and the pic quality from a RAW file is what really counts, not JPEG.

ReF
04-04-2005, 01:50 AM
Yep. The *ist DS and the XT. Hopefully, the D50 will be joining this bunch soon. I predict that this market will eventually replace the high end fixed lens market that's already dying out anyways.

it kinda does look like the low price d-slrs are soon going to kill off the high end fixed lens cams or at least drive the prices WAY down, which is a good thing. i'm not so sure why they are getting so small though - it's not like they are going to fit in anyones pocket. personally, i can see why people like lower weight (i do too) and i don't really mind the small size as long as the grip is big enough and comfortable to hold all day. one example of a "small" camera with a comfortable grip is the G6 (excellent body design IMO btw), while the XT is bigger than the G6 but has a much smaller grip? go figure. i hope nobody thinks i am trying to make myself feel better by bashing the XT just because i have the outdated 300d - i'd trade up in a heartbeat (if it didn't cost me too much). :)

jeisner
04-04-2005, 02:23 AM
Well we will have to agree to disagree! ;-)


one of the main reasons for dslrs and expensive lenses is detail and pic quality right?

Yes this I agree 100% with which is why I use RAW regardless of JPEG quality!

Speaking of RAW, I am trying out bibble, a very good program which makes processing a large number of files nice and quick.... :-)

DiJ
04-04-2005, 05:31 AM
http://www.pbase.com/wtwyrick

I am really impressed by the sharpness of the house pictures and the noise at iso1600.

jamison55
04-04-2005, 06:08 AM
http://www.pbase.com/wtwyrick

I am really impressed by the sharpness of the house pictures and the noise at iso1600.


The Wyrick pics are very impressive. Especially the high ISO ones...

jeisner
04-04-2005, 09:38 PM
sorry bud, but i have to agree with the jpegs looking mediocre from the samples on dpreview.com i mean, one of the main reasons for dslrs and expensive lenses is detail and pic quality right? in the pentax's defense though it's true that you probably couldn't see much of a difference in medium to small sized prints and the pic quality from a RAW file is what really counts, not JPEG.

Hi Ref, just out of interest I found this reference to the Pop photo tests, now DxO software which was used to perform the test does its analysis on JPEGs, so I am curious as to whether they used JPEGs from the camera or RAW files converted to JPEG, as the figures for the ist DS at least are very different to Phil's....


Perhaps you guys already heard that Popolar Photography & Imaging performed a DSL shoot out for sub $2500.00 DSLR's. It is interesting to note that the resolution numbers posted in the article for *ist DS was higher than that for the EOS 300D and D70:

*ist DS: (1575Vx1450Hx1575D)
300D: (1510Vx1440Hx1450D)
D70: (1460Vx1520Hx1480D)

Rex914
04-04-2005, 11:19 PM
i'm not so sure why they are getting so small though - it's not like they are going to fit in anyones pocket.

They ideally want to get to the point where these are about the size of a G6. If they can offer the same DSLR quality in a G6 form factor, that's a real winner there. The people who'd buy this aren't photographers like us but rather people who want the best image quality in a luggable form factor. They will hardly be changing lenses around if at all. That's the kind of user I envision is being targeted here. In a pinch, these cameras also work well as secondary DSLR's to bring when the full size one is too heavy or as a backup.

D70FAN
04-05-2005, 12:35 PM
http://www.pbase.com/wtwyrick

I am really impressed by the sharpness of the house pictures and the noise at iso1600.

I have to admit that these pictures are far superior to anything I've seen so far from the XT. Most were shot at fairly small apertures, but even the shot at f6.3 was pretty decent. :o

Had these shots been the original pictures that I reviewed a couple of weeks ago, I wouldn't have been so harsh on the XT picture quality. I'm still not a big fan of the camera but if you guys can crank out pictures like some of these then I have no qualms. I'm impressed with these shots. As good as any I have seen from the other consumer dSLR's out there, and better than some.

I wonder which lenses were used, as some are labeled at longer than 55mm.

DiJ
04-06-2005, 12:59 AM
I have to admit that these pictures are far superior to anything I've seen so far from the XT. Most were shot at fairly small apertures, but even the shot at f6.3 was pretty decent. :o

Had these shots been the original pictures that I reviewed a couple of weeks ago, I wouldn't have been so harsh on the XT picture quality. I'm still not a big fan of the camera but if you guys can crank out pictures like some of these then I have no qualms. I'm impressed with these shots. As good as any I have seen from the other consumer dSLR's out there, and better than some.

I wonder which lenses were used, as some are labeled at longer than 55mm.

Hi George. He is using the kit lens 18-55mm for most of them. Two of them are with another canon long zoom lens and one with a Zenitar wide angle. I made some test shots with XT/kit lens at Canons customer care and best denki. Examining pics at home they show very similar sharpness and noise. But overall I would still say quality with the kit lens is abit of 'Hit or miss'. You can get a bad one. May be thats the reason for your reservation on this camera.

jamison55
04-06-2005, 03:31 AM
Hi George. He is using the kit lens 18-55mm for most of them. Two of them are with another canon long zoom lens and one with a Zenitar wide angle. I made some test shots with XT/kit lens at Canons customer care and best denki. Examining pics at home they show very similar sharpness and noise. But overall I would still say quality with the kit lens is abit of 'Hit or miss'. You can get a bad one. May be thats the reason for your reservation on this camera.

In addition to the kit lens, he used a 70-200 f4L and a Zenitar 16mm f2.8 fisheye. I have been looking at the Zenitar a bit lately, and am considering adding it to my stable. It is manual focus, and you lose some of the fisheye effect on a 1.6CF camera, but they sell for <$150, and produce really nice pictures...

gabester
04-06-2005, 06:30 AM
Hi George. He is using the kit lens 18-55mm for most of them. Two of them are with another canon long zoom lens and one with a Zenitar wide angle. I made some test shots with XT/kit lens at Canons customer care and best denki. Examining pics at home they show very similar sharpness and noise. But overall I would still say quality with the kit lens is abit of 'Hit or miss'. You can get a bad one. May be thats the reason for your reservation on this camera.

Agreed. I've had two dRebs; the first kit lens was good, although I didn't recognize it at the time. When I got the second one, I thought the distortion and softness were considerably worse than my "regular" EF non-L lenses. So perhaps my second lens was a "good copy". Unfortunately, as DPReview claims, the lens that comes with the XT differs from the dReb's kit lens only cosmetically; the optics are identical.

One non-lens related thing I want to try when my XT finally comes in is an ISO-boosted comparison with my dReb. I'm talking about shooting at 3200, 6400 and maybe 12,800 ISO equivalent (much like push-processing in the old days of Silver Halide. Then I can see if the noise processing algorithm (or the sensor itself) on the XT is indeed better than the dReb's.

D70FAN
04-06-2005, 02:19 PM
In addition to the kit lens, he used a 70-200 f4L and a Zenitar 16mm f2.8 fisheye. I have been looking at the Zenitar a bit lately, and am considering adding it to my stable. It is manual focus, and you lose some of the fisheye effect on a 1.6CF camera, but they sell for <$150, and produce really nice pictures...

Thanks for the info.

D70FAN
04-06-2005, 03:17 PM
Hi George. He is using the kit lens 18-55mm for most of them. Two of them are with another canon long zoom lens and one with a Zenitar wide angle. I made some test shots with XT/kit lens at Canons customer care and best denki. Examining pics at home they show very similar sharpness and noise. But overall I would still say quality with the kit lens is abit of 'Hit or miss'. You can get a bad one. May be thats the reason for your reservation on this camera.

It was certainly my primary reason for not recommending it to someone needing a lightweight, and small, dSLR.

My opinion on picture quality has changed, but as to overall value... has not. It is, after all, my opinion.

I've already erased all of the negatives that I posted on the XT, and will keep it that way.

PAX.

ReF
04-06-2005, 04:22 PM
They ideally want to get to the point where these are about the size of a G6. If they can offer the same DSLR quality in a G6 form factor, that's a real winner there. The people who'd buy this aren't photographers like us but rather people who want the best image quality in a luggable form factor. They will hardly be changing lenses around if at all. That's the kind of user I envision is being targeted here. In a pinch, these cameras also work well as secondary DSLR's to bring when the full size one is too heavy or as a backup.

aaah, good insight! i didn't think about the single-lens users. though now that i think about it, when i first bought my camera i really wanted to have only one lens - two months later i'm up to my fouth lens and looking at the fifth :eek: