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Mr. Peabody
02-28-2005, 07:19 PM
Here's my equipment.

I have a Canon EOS 20D EO with what you would call by industry standards a cheap Canon EF75-300mm f/4-5.6 USM zoom lens.

I can take excellent outdoor baseball and football action daytime photos.

My problem is when I try to shoot nighttime football action and indoor basketball action photos. The subjects and action turns out very blurry.

Solution?

I've been told that I need to get an external flash like the Canon Speedlite 580EX with a Batter grip and a f/2.8 lens. I'm told with these 3 items, my pics will turn out perfect and not blurry.

I'm willing to spend the money, but I want to know if the advice is correct. I don't want to waste my money.

As far as the f/2.8 lens goes. I can get a 75-200mm with or without Image Stabilization. Of course, the IS costs more. Will the IS work and is it worth the extra money.

Anyway, I'm new to all this. I want to find a place where I can take a class to learn the basics of photography and how to really use all the manual functions of my camera. Right now, I don't know how. I just wanted a really nice camera to take pics of kids doing sporting activities and such. Like I said, I can really take excellent daytime outdoor sports action photos. It's just that my nighttime and indoor action photos are blurry and lacking.

ktixx
02-28-2005, 07:45 PM
Here's my equipment.

I have a Canon EOS 20D EO with what you would call by industry standards a cheap Canon EF75-300mm f/4-5.6 USM zoom lens.

I can take excellent outdoor baseball and football action daytime photos.

My problem is when I try to shoot nighttime football action and indoor basketball action photos. The subjects and action turns out very blurry.

Solution?

I've been told that I need to get an external flash like the Canon Speedlite 580EX with a Batter grip and a f/2.8 lens. I'm told with these 3 items, my pics will turn out perfect and not blurry.

I'm willing to spend the money, but I want to know if the advice is correct. I don't want to waste my money.

As far as the f/2.8 lens goes. I can get a 75-200mm with or without Image Stabilization. Of course, the IS costs more. Will the IS work and is it worth the extra money.

Anyway, I'm new to all this. I want to find a place where I can take a class to learn the basics of photography and how to really use all the manual functions of my camera. Right now, I don't know how. I just wanted a really nice camera to take pics of kids doing sporting activities and such. Like I said, I can really take excellent daytime outdoor sports action photos. It's just that my nighttime and indoor action photos are blurry and lacking.

One of the nicest features of the canon 20D is the fact that it can shoot at high ISO's with realatively low noise. I would suggest shooting in either 1600 for even 3200 ISO. At this high of an ISO, even with the canon 20D, noise in inevitable, therefore you can invest in a program like noise ninja 2.0 ( www.picturecode.com ) which will take care of your noise problem. As far as the new lens and the flash...the larger minimum lens aperture will assist in letting a little more light into the camera, and the 580EX flash is DEFINITELY stronger than the onboard one. I am not too educated in flashes, but I am pretty sure it can illuminate an object 190 FT away at ISO 100 (Someone correct me if I am wrong) Overall with this combo you will should get much better, sharper action photos. As far as Image Stabilization is concerned, it will not help much in your action shots, as IS is only to stabilize you, not moving subjects. However, I would always suggest it anyway, as it will increase the clarity and sharpness of your still shots significantly. Good luck
Ken

DownByFive
02-28-2005, 09:22 PM
Here's my equipment.

I have a Canon EOS 20D EO with what you would call by industry standards a cheap Canon EF75-300mm f/4-5.6 USM zoom lens.

I can take excellent outdoor baseball and football action daytime photos.

My problem is when I try to shoot nighttime football action and indoor basketball action photos. The subjects and action turns out very blurry.

Solution?

I've been told that I need to get an external flash like the Canon Speedlite 580EX with a Batter grip and a f/2.8 lens. I'm told with these 3 items, my pics will turn out perfect and not blurry.

I'm willing to spend the money, but I want to know if the advice is correct. I don't want to waste my money.

As far as the f/2.8 lens goes. I can get a 75-200mm with or without Image Stabilization. Of course, the IS costs more. Will the IS work and is it worth the extra money.

Anyway, I'm new to all this. I want to find a place where I can take a class to learn the basics of photography and how to really use all the manual functions of my camera. Right now, I don't know how. I just wanted a really nice camera to take pics of kids doing sporting activities and such. Like I said, I can really take excellent daytime outdoor sports action photos. It's just that my nighttime and indoor action photos are blurry and lacking.

You might also consider the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8, which is about $700, vs. $1100 for the Canon non IS version, or $1700 for the IS...You could then add a 2x extender or something for extra range. But if you're pretty far away, a flash won't help you a whole lot, no matter how good it is...Bumping the ISO up will be much more effective.

Mr. Peabody
02-28-2005, 09:29 PM
I appreciate the help.

Like I said I don't really even know how to use the camera and all of it's functions yet. I don't even know how to bump up the ISO yet. The owners manual lacks a lot of info.

I once saw some book online about how to use use your Canon 20D. The site had books for alot of camera models. Unfortunately, I can't remember the where I saw the site.

I can get the Canon 75-200mm f/2.8 lens with IS from B&H photo for $1699, so it wouldn't really be any benefit money wise to buy the Sigma brand.

I'm told the f/2.8 lens lets a lot more light in than my current f/4-5.6 lens so that would be a great benefit.

DownByFive
02-28-2005, 10:11 PM
I appreciate the help.

Like I said I don't really even know how to use the camera and all of it's functions yet. I don't even know how to bump up the ISO yet. The owners manual lacks a lot of info.

I once saw some book online about how to use use your Canon 20D. The site had books for alot of camera models. Unfortunately, I can't remember the where I saw the site.

I can get the Canon 75-200mm f/2.8 lens with IS from B&H photo for $1699, so it wouldn't really be any benefit money wise to buy the Sigma brand.

I'm told the f/2.8 lens lets a lot more light in than my current f/4-5.6 lens so that would be a great benefit.

I think you just hit the ISO button on the back and rotate the command dial to the ISO setting you want...I have a Nikon and I'm can't quite remember how the Canon functions worked.

And I think you misunderstood me on the Sigma lens. There is no Sigma IS lens, so the price difference between the Sigma and Canon IS is ~$1000. So you have to decide if IS is worth $1000.

ktixx
02-28-2005, 10:35 PM
Although it is not "L" Glass you may want to consider the canon 75-300 IS USM lens. This lens retails from www.buydig.com for $400. It has a very decent range, and the IS will allow you to shoot handheld with a slower shutter. To adjust the ISO on the 20D make sure the back wheel is turned on by moving the on swich past the "on" and to the "/". Then press the "Drive*ISO" Button on the top of the camera and rotate the wheel on the back. You will see the numbers change starting with 100 then 200, 400, 800, 1600. You will not be able to shoot at 3200 or "H" On the camera unless you turn on the custom function in the camera menu. You can do this by Pressing "Menu" then go down to "Custom Functions (C.Fn)" Then turn Custom Function 8 (ISO Expansion) to "On". The manual is actually pretty informative, you have to read through it about 2 times to get a basic understanding of the camera. There will be new things that you can learn either online, or going back to the manual and specifically researching that topic. The books you are talking about are probably A Short Course In Digital Photography: Canon 20D (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1928873529/104-8573781-2867164?v=glance) I was also going to purchase this for my camera, however from what I have been told/read it is basically the manual in simpler, more wordy terms. You may want to take a look at the book if you are having trouble understanding the camera. The Canon 20D is an excellent camera but the equipment is only 10% of the photograph, the other 90% is in the photographer. Take time to learn your equipment, it will pay off in the end.

Ken

Samuel Lo
03-01-2005, 11:54 AM
Here's my equipment.

As far as the f/2.8 lens goes. I can get a 75-200mm with or without Image Stabilization. Of course, the IS costs more. Will the IS work and is it worth the extra money.




Image Stabilizer is a very helpful tool but I don't think it will help in this case. You have to know that the blur is from the movement of the object that you take, not from the camera nor your body: the IS only eliminate the shaking from the camera or your hands, if the object move the IS cannot make it stable. So I always think the term that Minolta used - "anti-shake" is much closer to it's job than "Image Stabilizer", that will cause misunderstanding.

You can always use a monopod when you shoot with long Lenses. It's not only to prevent shaking or subsitution to IS, but to hold the Lens. Don't forget a 75-200mm/2.8 is quite heavy, a monopod is a good support for the Lens.

Mr. Peabody
03-01-2005, 07:21 PM
I bought a DVD today "Introduction to the Canon 20D Digital SLR."

It covers in more detail than the owners manual. It explains how to use the camera, what the settings are for, and how and when to use them.

I feel quite overwhelmed, but I'm going to learn to use this camera correctly without using the programed basic settings.

Aperture value, white balance, shutter speed, exposure etc. etc. are all new terms to me. I'm just beginning to understand and comprehend them.

Like I said, I'm a beginner at this, but I wanted a quality camera.

I also went down to the local photography store to check out the Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8 USM IS lens. It was huge. It makes my regular 75-300mm lens look tiny.

D70FAN
03-01-2005, 09:05 PM
I bought a DVD today "Introduction to the Canon 20D Digital SLR."

It covers in more detail than the owners manual. It explains how to use the camera, what the settings are for, and how and when to use them.

I feel quite overwhelmed, but I'm going to learn to use this camera correctly without using the programed basic settings.

Aperture value, white balance, shutter speed, exposure etc. etc. are all new terms to me. I'm just beginning to understand and comprehend them.

Like I said, I'm a beginner at this, but I wanted a quality camera.

I also went down to the local photography store to check out the Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8 USM IS lens. It was huge. It makes my regular 75-300mm lens look tiny.

Also use "P" program mode and learn from the settings that the camera picks for a given situation. "P" mode also allows you to make changes in shutter speed, aperture, and ISO, so that you can see what the changes you are making do to other settings.

Don't kill yourself learning, as you should enjoy the trip. In a few months you will be amazed at your expertise. :) Canon (and others) put the auto setting on these cameras for a reason...

Most zoom, and fixed focus, long lenses with a rating of f2.8 are large because it takes a larger diameter piece of glass to let in the extra light.

Samuel Lo
03-01-2005, 09:50 PM
I also went down to the local photography store to check out the Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8 USM IS lens. It was huge. It makes my regular 75-300mm lens look tiny.

That's why I suggest you to use a monopod. Unless you are Mr. Olympus, or else it is hard to hold the Lens for the whole game firmly. If you get tired, even the IS cannot assist.

wall7760
03-02-2005, 06:02 PM
Im new atthis too,. But i was in the same boat as you with the lense situation. The apurature level on my lense was 5.6 so went went and bought one with one of 2.8, and it made a ton of difference. Im am taking pictures of indoor sports with no flash so I can tell you the better lense makes a difference.

Mr. Peabody
03-02-2005, 07:33 PM
That's why I suggest you to use a monopod. Unless you are Mr. Olympus, or else it is hard to hold the Lens for the whole game firmly. If you get tired, even the IS cannot assist.


I like to lift weights and body build also for a hobby, but I could see how holding the lens for an entire game would be a pain in the rear. I'll get a monopod sooner or later.

Mr. Peabody
03-02-2005, 07:35 PM
Im new atthis too,. But i was in the same boat as you with the lense situation. The apurature level on my lense was 5.6 so went went and bought one with one of 2.8, and it made a ton of difference. Im am taking pictures of indoor sports with no flash so I can tell you the better lense makes a difference.

What brand and type of lens did you buy. Interesting that you don't even have to use a flash for your indoor sports photos.

wall7760
03-03-2005, 01:45 PM
I bought a Tamron 28-75 with an aprature of 2.8. Of course I wishedI had $2000 to spend on a nice long one, but unforunantly I dont have the $. :O) I sitll ahveto keep the ISO high, and I get a little noise, but a considerable amount less than with my other lense. Without the flash they still blur a little but ive only had it for 2 weeks, and im hoping with practice I can change that.