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View Full Version : Exploring the novely of SONY



DonSchap
02-26-2011, 11:09 AM
One of the major challenges with the SONY Alpha System has been the lack of information about up and coming products. The biggest knock has been, just like nuclear weapons, that SONY will neither confirm or deny where they are going with their camera line. It is complete supposition by the buying public.

I have to say, for me, as well as many others ... this has cost them dearly in NEW business sales as well as keeping the bridge up between older, more dedicated users.

I can say I am not an aficionado of this particular business plan. Personally, I believe it has more negatives about it than many, if any, positives. If anything, it is silly to think that Canon or Nikon would be that much more benefited by knowing Sony's battle plan, as they simply cannot keep up. But, they sure can mop up the floor with all the people who have jumped ship because of this sad and poor informational support.

With the 3D market now on the horizon, again we are faced with new ideas and some serious product choices, but no real support. For a fledgling market ... I am left wondering if SONY is planning to, once again, leave its customers adrift and pondering what kind of future they can plan on?

If anyone is reading this .... drop a line. :cool:

Rooz
02-26-2011, 11:51 AM
How is that any different from any other major camera manufacturer ?

jr_rodriguez
02-26-2011, 12:56 PM
They all do it. Nobody but insiders know. That's why there's a ton of "rumors" sites around.

DonSchap
02-26-2011, 07:16 PM
Look, just because this is the way they DO business does not mean it is the correct way to do business. If anything, it is a shameful example of just how NOT to do business ... and it needs to stop.

Plain and not so simple, I guess.

I am getting very tired of this game. It has cost me a lot more money than it should have. That leaves me bitter and quite unamused. The higher my recognition gets, the more exposure to this game I am getting ... and the more exposure of the game I am giving. All I am asking for is a marketing move I can rely on ... and not have to backtrack every six months. It is a fair request and I grow very tired of being disappointed. :mad:

Mark it down: Customer Dissatisfaction

SONYNUT
02-26-2011, 08:22 PM
they learned from nintendo, apple....let out a little tech at a time...most people are so dumb they will buy it again next week to get that extra button

DonSchap
02-26-2011, 10:52 PM
No, not trademarks ... treadmarks ... like the shoe prints people who defend this kind of behavior wear as the manufacturers walk all over you ... and you happily lick the soles of the shoes they do it with.

I sit and just shake my head, wondering how people look at themselves in the mirror and say, man, I am so proud of my attitude. Grow a pair, for goodness sake. Only by a unified front, are we ever going snap the manufacturers back into something we all can enjoy, instead of this rather useless nonsense we are get stuck with. Otherwise, I suppose you can just wear their logo proudly on your forehead ...


56436

as "the marked" and happily controlled. :rolleyes: A "rebel" ... without a cause.

Rooz
02-26-2011, 11:53 PM
I dont have the faintest idea what you are ranting about.

sparkie1263
02-27-2011, 04:51 AM
I am in this position now. I am ready to upgrade to a new camera and don't know if I should wait for the A77 or just get the A580. I made the same mistake when I bough my A100 they released the A700. Like Sonynut says there are people who will buy the newer model anyway. I have a week to make up my mind.

Frank

DonSchap
02-27-2011, 09:01 AM
Frank, after four years ... why, now? Where's the pressure?

The α77 addresses many issues ... and it a much higher level camera body allowing aspects to photography that the α580 does not have in it.

I am going to assume the SLT-α77 will have a pc-sync port for external flash, which is something you still would have to add to the α580 or any 200, 300, 400 or 500-series camera. I believe it is located to the lower right of the lens, in the picture below.


56439

I know having that little convenience is important for studio work and wherever you might need a trigger. There are other aspects that make the 500-series more like a P&S upgrade, than a semi-pro level device. The SLT-α77 MUST have a "series" of other things that sets it apart from the SLT-α55, otherwise ... I mean, who would buy it and spend the extra coin? I would suspect it may have 1080p HD resolution and at least 24fps to support a decent movie standard. Also, a better focusing system ... over the other two.

Still, it would be nice if they built PocketWizard or RF-controlled flash capability IN the darn camera, with ratio control, if possible. I mean, it appears to be just another refusal to give the consumers what they really need and ask for. How much could the implementation that convenient standard really cost? They even built the PocketWizard cards slots into the Bowens flash heads. I mean, if a cheaper flash company is doing it ...? :rolleyes: Admittedly, I would not upgrade just to get that feature, but I would like to see the feature in the upgrade.

sparkie1263
02-27-2011, 11:54 AM
When is the release date? I haven't see it yet. You know with Sony it could be way down the road. Need to make up my mind soon. My birthday is coming and a new camera is at the top of my list.

Thanks
Frank

DonSchap
02-27-2011, 12:00 PM
Well, my birthday is in a few more days ... and I am wishing for a few more birthdays. :eek:

sparkie1263
02-27-2011, 12:54 PM
I will settle for a camera. We have no control over how many more birthdays we are going to get.

Frank

Rooz
02-28-2011, 01:36 AM
I am in this position now. I am ready to upgrade to a new camera and don't know if I should wait for the A77 or just get the A580. I made the same mistake when I bough my A100 they released the A700. Like Sonynut says there are people who will buy the newer model anyway. I have a week to make up my mind.

Frank

how is that different from any other consumer good ? no company does it. that is in fact completely the OPPOSITE of what they want to do which is to get people to be repeat customers, to buy and buy and buy again. consume....thats what these companies are built on. that's why they love people like don...he fits right into their best laid plans.



Still, it would be nice if they built PocketWizard or RF-controlled flash capability IN the darn camera, with ratio control, if possible. I mean, it appears to be just another refusal to give the consumers what they really need and ask for. How much could the implementation that convenient standard really cost? They even built the PocketWizard cards slots into the Bowens flash heads. I mean, if a cheaper flash company is doing it ...? :rolleyes: Admittedly, I would not upgrade just to get that feature, but I would like to see the feature in the upgrade.

and where exactly would they squeeze that in ? the smallest receiver i've ever seen is the cybersync or the new PW. hardly something you could squeeze into a camera very easily. they are trying to make bodies smaller and lighter and you want to make them bigger and heavier.

Don, you really make no sense when you're ranting.

sparkie1263
02-28-2011, 03:07 AM
how is that different from any other consumer good ? no company does it. that is in fact completely the OPPOSITE of what they want to do which is to get people to be repeat customers, to buy and buy and buy again. consume....thats what these companies are built on. that's why they love people like don...he fits right into their best laid plans.


I don't keep chasing technology I just like to get the best I can afford at the time I want it. I try to do as much research as I can before I buy something so I have no regrets later. I am happy with my A100 but I just don't want to buy a new camera if a better one is coming out soon. If I had all the specs on the A77 then I could make up my mind now.
Frank

David Metsky
02-28-2011, 05:46 AM
If I had all the specs on the A77 then I could make up my mind now.
That's not in the company's best interest. They don't want to cannibalize current sales for future sales. In an ideal world, you'd buy what you want now and then be tempted by the new items down the road. Every tech company does this, and there's a good reason why; it works.

DonSchap
02-28-2011, 06:33 AM
Drawing Microsoft into the fray ... I don't know what's worse ... changing an old, but finally reliable OS for a half-baked, rushed-to-market new one ... to generate a quick-fix revenue stream? I know it is up to the customer, but I had to buy completely new equipment (scanner and video card) to deal with this latest upgrade (Windows 7), again. More money down the drain ... retiring perfectly good equipment ... just because the silly OS will not talk to it. They patched it up to that abomination of Vista 64 ... then they stopped! So, now I have 5 video cards and 3 scanners! Heck, I still have the box the second scanner came in! I gave up on the HP ScanJet. I figure if they will not support their own build ... why should I? EPSON it is!

Again, when I look at Canon's upgrades ... did you really get a "better" jump going from the EOS 20D to the 40D? With SONY, going from the a100 to the a700 was MAJOR! That was refinement ... all a person could practically want in a APS-C camera ... and Minolta knew it when the designs were sold. Ergonomically just about all you could want, just a shade small, but not too bad.

Then comes the α33/α55 ... so small it is hard to handle. (Eek, shades of the Canon Rebel XT - perhaps made for a "different" market?)

Tech companies are competitive, sure ... but, they are competing with complete disregard for the health of the buying public and the environment. That seems like a criminal enterprise to me ... nothing short of monopolistic goals: collectively and purposely creating more waste (hence, my references to the "still working" and "relatively new" equipment ... killed off and heading for the junk heap, where CD_ROM readers, sound cards and other items sit collecting dust and mold. Consider all the SCSI equipment and all the technology attached to that. Yeah, that stuff was pricey ... and, now, effectively history) in this advancing GREEN environment. Landfills filled with still working technology that simply could not be ... software interfaced. You might say, "electronically retired."

Then we get to photography ... consider film. Yeah, "electronically retired." Say no more, say no more.

Do not get me wrong, Frank, going with the SLT-α77 seems to have the built-in promise of success, considering it simply has to have all the bells and whistles of the top of the line. With the way the higher end cameras (7xx & 9xx) are so few and far between ... it has to have "legs." If SONY has listened to the boards and the research, this could be their best camera, yet, as a combination of advanced features that the α700 has and the SLT's rapid fire and 3D capabilities. Obviously, the trade-off is the EVF (yep, "electronically retired") ... but, if you can live with it ... and most probably can adapt ... there you go.

Heck ... anyone ready to move into "serious player" photography could not do much better than this. It should have the entire package in it. It is up to you - the photographer - to make use of it.

Again, we shall see what we shall see. Picture that! :D

Peekayoh
02-28-2011, 10:03 AM
Frank,
As has been said, you're never going to have all the information in advance but you can make some good guesses as to specs and price of the A77.

Price:
A good bit more than the A580, you can expect it to be in the $999-$1299 range. Some think more, $1499, I don't but take your pick

Res:
Clearly there will be a new Exmor sensor for the A77 and more MPs than the 16.2MP of the A580, anything from 18 to 24MP; my guess, 24MP.

Frame Rate:
Who's going to guess at this one? 10-15fps maybe.

AF system:
This is bound to be a big improvement on the A700 and a lot better than the A580. We have seen (A900 firmware upgrade) that Sony have been working to catch up in this area (software algorithms) and in hardware, the A77 will probably have more than the 15 point array of the A580 and have some double cross and f/2.8 sensors. I don't know how many but I'm expecting a good step forward in performance with the A77.

ViewFinder:
Electronic of course and possibly an OLED design which could be a big improvement over previous EVFs.

Gadgets:
Whole bunch of stuff like video, panorama, smile detect, GPS ... who knows, or cares.

It looks like Sony may be releasing the 500mm lens at the same time as the A77 implying that the two go together. Certainly the A77, with it's EVF is able to take advantage of the DMF lens button control that, when pressed, presents a 15x magnified view. That will be a serious combination for well heeled wildlife and sports photographers. Maybe Sony think they can now compete in that market but the camera would have to be pretty good. BTW, is that a rubber seal around the mount? Still can't make up my mind.

Anyway Frank, if the A77 falls within your budget, I'd wait around for it, could be a good move and at least you wouldn't have regrets over buying into the A580. Which only leaves the question of when which is more difficult but third quarter at worst and sooner with luck.

sparkie1263
02-28-2011, 02:54 PM
I may have to wait.

Thanks again
Frank

Rooz
02-28-2011, 04:26 PM
you're like a cat on a hot tin roof don. jumping around from topicd to topic, issue to issue all scatterbrain like making no sense. no point continuing this thread.

DonSchap
02-28-2011, 06:20 PM
"Rooz", if this stimulates some conversation on the boards, with cross discussion, ... well, it is working for me. Again, the internal workings of the SONY company are as dreadful as ever, maybe worse.

I simply hate the customer service, I abhor the broken information pipeline and I really miss having a "product expert" available to answer the tough questions.

I can not count (well, I probably could) the number of times I had asked, on the defunct SONY chat board, about significant features and was simply ignored ... or answered by someone who either was told complete nonsense or just told to be nice and say nothing. The one time I did get someone to bite, concerning the teaching mode in the new +30-series ... they got bit and we never heard from them, again. That is kind of UGLY in my book.

For the past two years, SONY really clamped down on the people they sent to the Photo EXPO shows. The Sgt Schultz (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34ag4nkSh7Q) approach ("I know nothing!") was in full effect and as such, it appears that wasting the coin by going to the show has only made things worse. I mean, why bother? No "inside scoop?" Practically everything you will find out has already been released, in the news, a few days earlier.

My biggest knock ... and I am still standing by it, is that 3D has no real tangible footing for introduction. There just is nothing that compelling to draw a 7/24 interest level from most of the buying public. I mean even HD television had to be practically forced on the consumer by a governmental fiat to get it implemented, by effectively killing off all 30-year legacy analog televisions. I believe that the 3D move to be just as much and worse.

One of the myths (http://www.3d-tvbuyingguide.com/3dtv/3d-tv-myths.html) (<- click and read these before you go 3D-nutz) about 3D is that because it was introduced later ... it will have 1080p resolution. >BUZZ< Not so, Idaho! There is only one company that is even close (shhh, it's Panasonic) ... and it is NOT SONY. You go with 3D ... you are back to the lower definition television.

So, before you go and pitch your practically new 1080p HD television, consider what you are ... uh, lo$ing.

BTW: My CAPSTONE Research Paper, this quarter, is about the "3D Push" and whether it really has a home ... in your home. I am reaching out and researching this. It STILL does not look promising. Too many different standards out there and no particular one being complied with ... no one is in serious agreement ... other than they want to sell new products and do not seem to care to whom. I truly believe they are hoping the mass confusion in WHAT TO BUY to make it work will generate monstrous profits, regardless.

Judging by the 16 to 30-yr-old 'buying public' and the recent run with the "new" camera sales ... why the hell not? Not too much thinking going on out there. Their parents should have taught them better. If anything, the paid professionals at "Consumer Reports" need to be out front on this, warning the public to "remain calm" and exert public and governmental pressure to literally "force" the manufacturers to an agreed upon 3D standard. Anything else is playing right into the SONY way of doing things (make it all proprietary) ... and no matter how much time goes by ... I cannot forget the BetaMax debacle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videotape_format_war). (<- Please read this for a much clearer understanding of what may be happening all over again, on an even more massive scale. Talk about history running in REWIND).

All this does have a sad price to be paid, if an agreed upon STANDARD cannot be hammered out BEFORE people start buying. I mean as sure as I am sitting here, putting this out ... a whole lot of someone(s) are going to be buying defunct and unsupported junk. Time will decide who or you can leave it to fate and throw the dice!


"Welcome to the 3D Crap Shoot!"

56449

~$2000-3000 a toss, this time around

sparkie1263
03-01-2011, 04:53 PM
With the camera put on hold I want to get a Macro Lens. I was thinking of the Tamron 90 Macro. I know there have been a few new Macros out anybody have any suggestions?

Thanks
Frank

SONYNUT
03-01-2011, 06:51 PM
they still need 24p to get into the indie film videographer pipeline....they are laughing at the a55

Peekayoh
03-02-2011, 04:49 PM
Frank, I don't think there's a huge choice in new macro lenses.

I grabbed this list from Dyxum.

56459

I don't think any of them are bad, just depends on budget and working distance.
The Tamron 90 is a good choice although I'd prefer the Sony which is identical, optically anyway, to the Minolta - AF 100 F2.8 Macro D, a great lens.

DonSchap
03-02-2011, 06:38 PM
Frank, if you or anyone is interested, feel free to check my gear list for specifics. I have several lenses that I am willing to part with. Just let me know if you are ready to go with something.

This new 120-300mm f/2.8 is going to be a real shot to the wallet, unlike anything else photographic I have ever purchased. :eek: Maybe we can help one another out.

SONYNUT
03-02-2011, 10:13 PM
you want macro look up zeiss luminar 63mm



Frank, I don't think there's a huge choice in new macro lenses.



I don't think any of them are bad, just depends on budget and working distance.
The Tamron 90 is a good choice although I'd prefer the Sony which is identical, optically anyway, to the Minolta - AF 100 F2.8 Macro D, a great lens.

Peekayoh
03-03-2011, 03:55 AM
HeHe, I don't think Frank is quite ready yet for this......

56462

SONYNUT
03-03-2011, 09:30 AM
or this.....

Peekayoh
03-04-2011, 08:52 AM
Nice one Steve.

All in good fun Frank, no offense.

Seriously though Frank, Steve has a point about a second hand lens.
That is, what are you going to be doing with your purchase (yeh I know, Macro) but what exactly?
I mean to say, a Macro is a single purpose lens and not all that cheap.
Yes, a Macro will double as a Portrait lens but the 90mm (135mm equivalent) is too long in my view.
A 50mmm (75mm equivalent) or 60mm (90mm equiv) is better IMO.
But then, you have the 50mm f/1.7 and also the excellent (I'm assuming that you have the f/4 version) 35-70mm (42-105mm equiv) lens which are both to be preferred for Portraits.

So, if it's a Macro only lens, you could quite easily choose an older Manual Focus lens to start with for not much money or you could go with any old MF lens with an extension tube. Oh! and you need an adapter as well.
At Macro distances the AF is pretty useless and you'll probably end up using MF anyway.

I nipped out in the Garden and took these two pics. Nothing exiting but the Roses are budding again.

It was a bit dim so I upped the iso to 1600.
I cropped the image to the match pixels of your A100.
50mm Macro at f/8, 1/100sec and about 3" working distance.

56465

135mm MD with short extension tube. f/8, 1/25th sec and about 20" working distance.

56466

I should have used a longer tube to get more magnification.
Maybe later.

Peekayoh
03-05-2011, 04:36 AM
OK, I used a longer extension tube on the 135mm to give a working distance of about 14" and similar magnification to the 50mm Macro lens.
Again I cropped it to the dimensions of the A100 and then again to square.

50mm Macro @ f/8
56468


135mm lens @ f/8 with longer extension tube (from 100mm Macro).
56469

You can see that the Minolta 135mm MD is doing a pretty good job.
Ok, not quite as sharp and the focus plain won't be as flat as the Macro, but not at all bad.
Remember, you can pick up similar lenses for a song and it doesn't have to be Minolta.
There are plenty of M42 lenses about you could try.
Just need a cheap adapter and an extension tube.

Of course the DOF is very limited at these magnifications so it's pretty tricky to get the shot you want.
On a tripod and rail you can stack a number of images to get the effect of more DOF.

Like this...

56470

Obviously, you can do the same with the Tamron 90mm but at a somewhat higher price.
Also, there's more messing about with adapter and tube and the exposure needs more care (usually -1EV with my 900).
But there is satisfaction to be had from getting good results without spending a fortune (LOL, this from a bloke with some excruciatingly expensive glass).

sparkie1263
03-05-2011, 11:41 AM
I think I might look for a reversing ring for my 50mm and drill a hole in the back cap to keep the aperture open.

Thanks for all the sample images and help
Frank

SONYNUT
03-05-2011, 05:12 PM
the minolta AF 50 macro 2.8 is a decent lens..

Peekayoh
03-06-2011, 03:21 AM
So too is the AF 100mm Macro. Nice price too LOL.

Anyone tried these?? (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Auto-Focus-AF-Macro-Extension-Tube-Sony-A350-A900-/110572005112?pt=UK_Photography_DigitalCamAccess_RL&hash=item19be9ae6f8)

sparkie1263
03-06-2011, 08:04 AM
I just found these http://www.adorama.com/MCAETMAX.html?utm_term=Other&utm_medium=Shopping%20Site&utm_campaign=Other&utm_source=dealtime I may order these.

Thanks again
Frank

SONYNUT
03-06-2011, 12:39 PM
Wrong picture it looks like




i just found these http://www.adorama.com/mcaetmax.html?utm_term=other&utm_medium=shopping%20site&utm_campaign=other&utm_source=dealtime i may order these.

Thanks again
frank

sparkie1263
03-06-2011, 06:59 PM
The link was for this
"Pro Optic Auto Extension Tube Set for Sony Alpha & Maxxum"

Frank

Peekayoh
03-07-2011, 12:43 PM
There you go Frank, you'll be able to tell us if they work.
I doubt the AF will when you start stacking the tubes.
You should get focus confirm and SSS though.

SONYNUT
03-10-2011, 12:25 PM
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/Official_Sony_axes_NEX3_camera_in_Japan_news_30590 0.html