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D70FAN
02-17-2005, 10:02 AM
UPDATE:

The D70 has returned.

Repaired in 7 working days (as is Nikons policy). Total down time was 2 weeks. Pretty darned quick. No muss, no fuss.

Way to go Nikon!

ORIGINAL:

It started with intermitent full-frame overexposure (about 2weeks ago) and ended yesterday with me shipping the very dead (not even a frame counter?) camera back to Nikon in Torrence.

Fortunately, this happened almost exactly 1 month before the warranty runs out so at least I shouldn't have to pay more than shipping for the repair. This is among the first run of D70's (purchased March 22 of last year), so hopefully it is just a fluke.

With a trip to Japan comming up next week this is truely a bummer, but hey, it happens. And it does show the importance of not buying grey market.

The reason for this post is to inform early D70 owners of the possible intermittent, overexposure warning sign, and to test Nikons return/repair performance.

Should be interesting...

Samuel Lo
02-17-2005, 10:43 AM
It started with intermitent full-frame overexposure (about 2weeks ago) and ended yesterday with me shipping the very dead (not even a frame counter?) camera back to Nikon in Torrence.

Fortunately, this happened almost exactly 1 month before the warrantee runs out so at least I shouldn't have to pay more than shipping for the repair. This is among the first run of D70's (purchased March 22 of last year), so hopefully it is just a fluke.

With a trip to Japan comming up next week this is truely a bummer, but hey, it happens. And it does show the importance of not buying grey market.

The reason for this post is to inform early D70 owners of the possible intermittent, overexposure warning sign, and to test Nikons return/repair performance.

Should be interesting...

George, can you tell us more what's wrong with your D70?

D70FAN
02-17-2005, 10:55 AM
George, can you tell us more what's wrong with your D70?

Unfortunately, until the post mortum comes back from Nikon I really don't know. Except for a blinking memory activity lamp, the camera is 100% dead. Again it started about 2 weeks ago with the camera shifting (in all modes, including full manual) to very slow shutter speeds which would overexpose the entire frame (white screen) in daylight shots, and then just as suddenly shift back to normal. Finally, on Tuesday it just flat-lined.

At least I finished some shooting in Monterey and Carmel before it completely failed, and I look forward to getting it back from Nikon asap. I'm debating on getting another body just for the trip to Japan next week, but the spouse might protest a bit... ;)

Again, it's not the end of the world, but I already miss having it handy...

Samuel Lo
02-17-2005, 11:00 AM
Unfortunately, until the post mortum comes back from Nikon I really don't know. Except for a blinking memory activity lamp, the camera is 100% dead. Again it started about 2 weeks ago with the camera shifting (in all modes, including full manual) to very slow shutter speeds which would overexpose the entire frame (white screen) in daylight shots, and then just as suddenly shift back to normal. Finally, on Tuesday it just flat-lined.

At least I finished some shooting in Monterey and Carmel before it completely failed, and I look forward to getting it back from Nikon asap. I'm debating on getting another body just for the trip to Japan next week, but the spouse might protest a bit... ;)

Again, it's not the end of the world, but I already miss having it handy...

I feel very sorry for that...

Rhys
02-17-2005, 11:02 AM
It started with intermitent full-frame overexposure (about 2weeks ago) and ended yesterday with me shipping the very dead (not even a frame counter?) camera back to Nikon in Torrence.

Fortunately, this happened almost exactly 1 month before the warrantee runs out so at least I shouldn't have to pay more than shipping for the repair. This is among the first run of D70's (purchased March 22 of last year), so hopefully it is just a fluke.

With a trip to Japan comming up next week this is truely a bummer, but hey, it happens. And it does show the importance of not buying grey market.

The reason for this post is to inform early D70 owners of the possible intermittent, overexposure warning sign, and to test Nikons return/repair performance.

Should be interesting...


Sounds interesting. Nikon is now getting reliability problems then. It'll be interesting to find out whether this is an isolated failure or not.

While I still feel attached to Nikon by virtue of the fact I have had some excellent photos from my Nikon 35mm Manual Focus cameras, I am increasingly feeling that Nikon is becoming pretty much of a has-been in the photographic world. Canon in contrast seems to be reigning supreme. In terms of handling, I much preferred the Nikon MF kit to the Canon EOS AF kit but I prefer the sound of the Canon EOS digitals to the Nikon digitals. One of the big things that I dislike about Nikon is that their digital cameras are totally incompatible with my MF lenses and the fact that I never know which Nikon lens will fit which Nikon camera. With Canon, it's simple: FD lenses only fit FD cameras. EF lenses fit all digital and film AF cameras and ED lenses will fit only digital cameras.

Now that Canon's come out with a full-frame camera, Canon looks to be leading by leaps and bounds.

Having said all that, I think Olympus is well worth close observation with its four thirds system as this mirrors computer screen size more closely. Given the widening array of formats and systems available to the end user, it is very tempting to stick with a known format. In my case that would be Nikon. Having said that, when I changed over from Pentax/Cosina to Nikon, I did so because I was unhappy with the trash that Pentax procuded. I sold all my Pentax stuff and examined all the cameras available before settling with Nikon MF kit.

I would very much like to get my hands onto an Olympus EVolt to play with. I have a feeling it'd be - like a Leica - an interesting camera to use but somewhat expensive and hard to get lenses/parts for.

Jredtugboat
02-17-2005, 01:48 PM
Hey George,

I'm sorry to hear about your camera troubles. Thanks for sharing that cautionary note...I've been scouring the ads and this is all I needed to hear to feel good about not buying grey market!

Julian

Hope your camera gets better soon!

D70FAN
02-17-2005, 02:35 PM
Sounds interesting. Nikon is now getting reliability problems then. It'll be interesting to find out whether this is an isolated failure or not.

While I still feel attached to Nikon by virtue of the fact I have had some excellent photos from my Nikon 35mm Manual Focus cameras, I am increasingly feeling that Nikon is becoming pretty much of a has-been in the photographic world. Canon in contrast seems to be reigning supreme. In terms of handling, I much preferred the Nikon MF kit to the Canon EOS AF kit but I prefer the sound of the Canon EOS digitals to the Nikon digitals. One of the big things that I dislike about Nikon is that their digital cameras are totally incompatible with my MF lenses and the fact that I never know which Nikon lens will fit which Nikon camera. With Canon, it's simple: FD lenses only fit FD cameras. EF lenses fit all digital and film AF cameras and ED lenses will fit only digital cameras.

Now that Canon's come out with a full-frame camera, Canon looks to be leading by leaps and bounds.

Having said all that, I think Olympus is well worth close observation with its four thirds system as this mirrors computer screen size more closely. Given the widening array of formats and systems available to the end user, it is very tempting to stick with a known format. In my case that would be Nikon. Having said that, when I changed over from Pentax/Cosina to Nikon, I did so because I was unhappy with the trash that Pentax procuded. I sold all my Pentax stuff and examined all the cameras available before settling with Nikon MF kit.

I would very much like to get my hands onto an Olympus EVolt to play with. I have a feeling it'd be - like a Leica - an interesting camera to use but somewhat expensive and hard to get lenses/parts for.

I don't think that this D70 failure is a general trend with the camera.

On the other side, Canon scares the heck out of me, as they seem to introduce a new model once a quarter. For all of the hoopla over the 20D, I wasn't that impressed with the end product. The new 350D certainly looks interesting, though I'm sure that 300D buyers are really happy about this, as now their cameras aren't worth a damn. It also reduces the value of the 20D and canabilizes their own market. What were they thinking? Beat Nikon?

Speaking of new and improved... :rolleyes: I have had an A510 for about 3 days and it's going back for a refund. Whatever they changed from the A75? They need to change it back.

As for Olympus: I tried the E300 and really wanted to like it, as it is nice and compact and feels good to hold. It shoots ok, but overall it just doesn't perform like a dSLR, and reminded me of an 8080 with removable lens. Incidentely the 8.31MP (8MP effective) 4/3rds sensor in the E300 is suprisingly close to the size of the 2/3" 8.31MP (8.0MP effective) 8080 sensor (could they be the same?) In any case, it is nowhere near as versitile as the D70 at the same price. The lenses were just ok, as you would expect from a consumer dSLR.

In spite of the camera crash, I still like the way the D70 does everything well, and I'm looking forward to its return. I've even considered buying a second body, for the Japan trip and later as a backup.

Rhys
02-17-2005, 03:44 PM
I don't think that this D70 failure is a general trend with the camera.

On the other side, Canon scares the heck out of me, as they seem to introduce a new model once a quarter. For all of the hoopla over the 20D, I wasn't that impressed with the end product. The new 350D certainly looks interesting, though I'm sure that 300D buyers are really happy about this, as now their cameras aren't worth a damn. It also reduces the value of the 20D and canabilizes their own market. What were they thinking? Beat Nikon?


I don't mind the new camera every quarter. It just means they're ahead of the game. It also means that cunning people can wait until just before the older model is dicontinued before buying at a knockdown price.

Rex914
02-17-2005, 03:47 PM
I don't see what's wrong with introducing new cameras. If Canon has the resources, they can't be criticized for doing something that's right for the consumer. The people who bought Rebel's in the past 2 months knew well what was coming. You can't criticize a company for replacing an 18 month old product, nope.

Rhys
02-17-2005, 04:35 PM
I don't see what's wrong with introducing new cameras. If Canon has the resources, they can't be criticized for doing something that's right for the consumer. The people who bought Rebel's in the past 2 months knew well what was coming. You can't criticize a company for replacing an 18 month old product, nope.

I was going to wait for the D300 to be cheap enough to buy. Now they've come out with a full-frame dSLR then I'll wait until that's cheap enough before buying one. I'm in no great rush. Then I can get a film EOS with it as a backup.

D70FAN
02-17-2005, 05:57 PM
I don't see what's wrong with introducing new cameras. If Canon has the resources, they can't be criticized for doing something that's right for the consumer. The people who bought Rebel's in the past 2 months knew well what was coming. You can't criticize a company for replacing an 18 month old product, nope.

I wasn't criticizing Canon per se. I would venture to guess that the people buying the DReb DID NOT know what was comming or they would have waited. Either that or they prove that PT Barnum was right.

I really do appreciate Canon helping to drive down the price of the D70 though, so no complaints there, as I need another D70 body. Price wars are ok with me. But like film cameras they will eventually exact a heavy toll on quality. I see this happening continuously with point-n-shoots.

Take a look at the 350D compared to the D70 or the *ist DS. A quality product? But hey, it's 8MP and "almost" as fast as the D70. So they are catching up. Maybe in another 18 months...

Would I buy a 20D? Probably (if I didn't like the D70). Would I buy a 350D? Not a chance. But I won't knock anyone that does.

scalia
02-17-2005, 06:36 PM
As for Olympus: I tried the E300 and really wanted to like it, as it is nice and compact and feels good to hold. It shoots ok, but overall it just doesn't perform like a dSLR, and reminded me of an 8080 with removable lens. Incidentely the 8.31MP (8MP effective) 4/3rds sensor in the E300 is suprisingly close to the size of the 2/3" 8.31MP (8.0MP effective) 8080 sensor (could they be the same?) In any case, it is nowhere near as versitile as the D70 at the same price. The lenses were just ok, as you would expect from a consumer dSLR.

well now, come on George :)
the sensor on E-300 (or 4/3 system) is 18.0 x 13.5 mm, and the 20D is 22.5 x 15 mm. The difference is not that much, eh? ;)
you can look at the nice comparison image on several system's imagers size here (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/olympus-e1.shtml)

and 4/3 sensor size is twice the size of 2/3" sensor, isn't it :)

btw, sorry to hear about your D70, tho...

Jredtugboat
02-17-2005, 07:08 PM
I don't see what's wrong with introducing new cameras. If Canon has the resources, they can't be criticized for doing something that's right for the consumer. The people who bought Rebel's in the past 2 months knew well what was coming. You can't criticize a company for replacing an 18 month old product, nope.

You can't criticize a company for replacing a new product....not completely, anyway.

The reality for electronics is that product cycles have become increasingly short. This is good news to some customers because, as Rhys put it, a "cunning" customer can soak up bargains. This is bad news for existing customers who face an uncerain future for the support of their existing products.

I own a Canon G2. How long will I get support for this product? How long is long? How long is long in view of the fact that the camera was US$600 when I bought it? How reasonable is it of me to expect them to support it over the next 5 years, when it's unlikely (short of negligence or accident) that anything will go wrong with it?

Ultimately, what kind of market do you value as a consumer? There are pros and cons with short product cycles, and it's worthwhile considering from a business (selling) and a consumer (purchasing) point of view.

D70FAN
02-17-2005, 09:29 PM
well now, come on George :)
the sensor on E-300 (or 4/3 system) is 18.0 x 13.5 mm, and the 20D is 22.5 x 15 mm. The difference is not that much, eh? ;)
you can look at the nice comparison image on several system's imagers size here (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/olympus-e1.shtml)

and 4/3 sensor size is twice the size of 2/3" sensor, isn't it :)

btw, sorry to hear about your D70, tho...

According to the E300 spec. the E300 sensor is 17.3mm x 13mm. A .666" (2/3") sensor is 16.9mm (diag.). Seems pretty close to me. ;)

The D70 APS-C sensor is 23.7 x 15.6 (1.5 crop).

Thanks for the thought, but I will be shootin with it again in about 2 weeks (fingers crossed).

jamison55
02-18-2005, 05:54 AM
I too am sorry for your loss...

Have any stores in the area that will rent you a body for yor week in Japan? (and maybe a bad@sssss lens to boot)

ReF
02-18-2005, 07:12 PM
I wasn't criticizing Canon per se. I would venture to guess that the people buying the DReb DID NOT know what was comming or they would have waited. Either that or they prove that PT Barnum was right.

I really do appreciate Canon helping to drive down the price of the D70 though, so no complaints there, as I need another D70 body. Price wars are ok with me. But like film cameras they will eventually exact a heavy toll on quality. I see this happening continuously with point-n-shoots.

Take a look at the 350D compared to the D70 or the *ist DS. A quality product? But hey, it's 8MP and "almost" as fast as the D70. So they are catching up. Maybe in another 18 months...

Would I buy a 20D? Probably (if I didn't like the D70). Would I buy a 350D? Not a chance. But I won't knock anyone that does.

i usually don't disagree with George but i was 95% sure the new rebel would be 8mp, but i didn't think that overall performance would improve that much. :) i purchased the old rebel to take advantage of all those MAD rebates since the lenses i was considering qualified. when the new XT model is available i will be selling the Rebel at a low price (anyone interested? hope that doesn't violate Jeff's no classifieds policy. feel free to edit this part out if it's a problem) since i like the new one so much (so far). i am covered by the rebates so that i don't really loose any money while someone gets to buy a nearly new condition Rebel cheap and i got to buy my lenses below normal cost! it is totally worth having the Rebel temporarily because i got some really great shots from it that are much better than what i was getting from my previous camera. i also got a lot of important shots that otherwise wouldn't have turned out very well if i wasn't using a d-slr in RAW mode.
after reading the detailed preview of the Rebel XT on dpreview.com i was really glad to see how much closer the new model comes to the D70 while exceeding it in resolution and being slightly cheaper. too bad that plastic body isn't enviromentally sealed though; some of the most interesting things happen in un-camera-friendly weather.

D70FAN
02-19-2005, 05:23 PM
I too am sorry for your loss...

Have any stores in the area that will rent you a body for yor week in Japan? (and maybe a bad@sssss lens to boot)

Thanks for the sympathy, but hey, it's only temporary. I tried the rental thing but it appears that all 4 D70 rentals are out being used. Oddly enough they did have a 20D and a 1Ds available. They had an S3 as well, but for $260 a week I had to pass. :eek:

I am taking the trusty CP990 with me, as it does a decent job. :)

D70FAN
02-19-2005, 05:47 PM
i usually don't disagree with George but i was 95% sure the new rebel would be 8mp, but i didn't think that overall performance would improve that much. :) i purchased the old rebel to take advantage of all those MAD rebates since the lenses i was considering qualified. when the new XT model is available i will be selling the Rebel at a low price (anyone interested? hope that doesn't violate Jeff's no classifieds policy. feel free to edit this part out if it's a problem) since i like the new one so much (so far). i am covered by the rebates so that i don't really loose any money while someone gets to buy a nearly new condition Rebel cheap and i got to buy my lenses below normal cost! it is totally worth having the Rebel temporarily because i got some really great shots from it that are much better than what i was getting from my previous camera. i also got a lot of important shots that otherwise wouldn't have turned out very well if i wasn't using a d-slr in RAW mode.
after reading the detailed preview of the Rebel XT on dpreview.com i was really glad to see how much closer the new model comes to the D70 while exceeding it in resolution and being slightly cheaper. too bad that plastic body isn't enviromentally sealed though; some of the most interesting things happen in un-camera-friendly weather.

Well after my recent "problem" you would think that I would jump all over Nikon, but the D70 is still one of the best cameras I have ever used, film or digital.

The Rebel XT is Canons answer to the D70, and I'm realistic enough to know that a ton of folks will buy it, because it's "good enough". The difference is that the D70 is better than it has to be, and still better in many ways to this new "killer" from Canon.

The specs on the 350D are very good, and no doubt 8MP is always better than 6MP...right? Nit picking the specs is not my style, but if you use both cameras in the real world (and in continuous mode specifically) the shortcomings will become aparent...or not. Like the 20D if you don't use the camera features that set it appart, then there is no real advantage.

Again, I will buy a second D70 body (or maybe a D71, or whatever is next) because I like the way it handles, and performs. I didn't like the DReb and the XT is the same camera with a new sensor, and all the features that should have been added to the 300D in the first place.

ReF
02-20-2005, 12:15 AM
Well after my recent "problem" you would think that I would jump all over Nikon, but the D70 is still one of the best cameras I have ever used, film or digital.

The Rebel XT is Canons answer to the D70, and I'm realistic enough to know that a ton of folks will buy it, because it's "good enough". The difference is that the D70 is better than it has to be, and still better in many ways to this new "killer" from Canon.

The specs on the 350D are very good, and no doubt 8MP is always better than 6MP...right? Nit picking the specs is not my style, but if you use both cameras in the real world (and in continuous mode specifically) the shortcomings will become aparent...or not. Like the 20D if you don't use the camera features that set it appart, then there is no real advantage.

Again, I will buy a second D70 body (or maybe a D71, or whatever is next) because I like the way it handles, and performs. I didn't like the DReb and the XT is the same camera with a new sensor, and all the features that should have been added to the 300D in the first place.

the d70 sure is nice and you are right about it being better than it has to be. if it were around $900(current average price) when it came out i would've gone with the nikon. but after shooting about 10,000 frames from a 4mp camera and being asked to do some large prints, i realized that really do like to have more resolution. the rebel really is one of those "good enough" cameras for me and the resolution and picture quality are there. hey, if i had the money i would've jumped all over the 20D when it came out. i see myself as the kind now that would upgrade to whatever comes out next year (and sell what i have) so the Rebel XT would be just fine for the time being. if i were planning to keep a camera for 3 years and if technology didn't advance so fast(also if i had a better income :D ) then i would definately see myself buying a camera with a better feature set and a better built body.

ReF
02-20-2005, 12:23 AM
Thanks for the sympathy, but hey, it's only temporary. I tried the rental thing but it appears that all 4 D70 rentals are out being used. Oddly enough they did have a 20D and a 1Ds available. They had an S3 as well, but for $260 a week I had to pass. :eek:

I am taking the trusty CP990 with me, as it does a decent job. :)

you sure you won't be wishing you spent the $260 when you come home with some once-in-a-lifetime pics that could've been better? are you gonna be in japan for more than a week? maybe you could rent whatever they have (canon, oly, minolta) that costs less and buy another sigma 18-125 to fit. then you could sell the lens when you get back...or would that end up costing the same? rent the lens too? just tryin to help

gary_hendricks
02-20-2005, 01:22 AM
It started with intermitent full-frame overexposure (about 2weeks ago) and ended yesterday with me shipping the very dead (not even a frame counter?) camera back to Nikon in Torrence.

Fortunately, this happened almost exactly 1 month before the warrantee runs out so at least I shouldn't have to pay more than shipping for the repair. This is among the first run of D70's (purchased March 22 of last year), so hopefully it is just a fluke.

With a trip to Japan comming up next week this is truely a bummer, but hey, it happens. And it does show the importance of not buying grey market.

The reason for this post is to inform early D70 owners of the possible intermittent, overexposure warning sign, and to test Nikons return/repair performance.

Should be interesting...


George - what a bummer. I know your pain. Can you tell us where you bought this D70? Where is this 'grey market'? :eek:

D70FAN
02-21-2005, 04:52 PM
George - what a bummer. I know your pain. Can you tell us where you bought this D70? Where is this 'grey market'? :eek:

Sorry this took a while to answer as I was flying to Japan.

I bought the D70 from an authorized dealer in Michigan so it is not grey market, and repairs from Nikon will be covered under warranty.

Grey market cameras are generally sold on-line at prices too good to be true. You may get the camera (after an extended period) but if it needs repair the warranty is generally good in a different country.

So if you buy from e-bay or some of the East-Coast guys, always ask if the camera has a USA warranty.

D70FAN
02-21-2005, 05:01 PM
you sure you won't be wishing you spent the $260 when you come home with some once-in-a-lifetime pics that could've been better? are you gonna be in japan for more than a week? maybe you could rent whatever they have (canon, oly, minolta) that costs less and buy another sigma 18-125 to fit. then you could sell the lens when you get back...or would that end up costing the same? rent the lens too? just tryin to help

Thanks, but usually I come to Japan about 2 times a year. This time I was hoping to shoot some of the same places I usually go with the D70 (just to update them with a better camera).

So it's really not a big deal. At least I had it on the maiden trip to China (but I'll be going back there as well). Hopefully the D70 will be back in time for the trip to Turkey and Europe this spring.

ktixx
02-22-2005, 04:20 PM
At least I had it on the maiden trip to China (but I'll be going back there as well). Hopefully the D70 will be back in time for the trip to Turkey and Europe this spring.

Just a radom question George, but for what reason are you traveling so much? Photography, Leisure or a Job?
Thanks, Ken

D70FAN
02-23-2005, 01:29 AM
Just a radom question George, but for what reason are you traveling so much? Photography, Leisure or a Job?
Thanks, Ken

I work in semiconductor marketing (former applications engineer). Last year was the first year since 1997 that I did not log at least 100,000 miles (yes it was a nice break). In my new role, at a new company, I cover the worldwide marketing role, so the trips tend to be longer but less frequent. So this year it's Japan, China, Europe, Turkey, and some domestic travel. The photography part is a bonus, but I don't really get much time in each place to shoot as business meetings generally go sunrise to sunset.

D70FAN
03-03-2005, 08:22 PM
Nikon has repaired the D70 and it's headed back here to the desert. They turned it in 7 working days as is the norm. Of course it isn't here yet...

Norm in Fujino
03-03-2005, 10:17 PM
Nikon has repaired the D70 and it's headed back here to the desert. They turned it in 7 working days as is the norm. Of course it isn't here yet...

Since you're coming to Japan, you could get a body here; don't know how this compares to your neck of the woods, but here they're selling for as low as Y69,680 (=US$660).

http://www.kakaku.com/prdsearch/detail.asp?PrdKey=00501610453

D70FAN
03-04-2005, 05:55 AM
Since you're coming to Japan, you could get a body here; don't know how this compares to your neck of the woods, but here they're selling for as low as Y69,680 (=US$660).

http://www.kakaku.com/prdsearch/detail.asp?PrdKey=00501610453

Thanks Norm, but I'm already back, and the D70 should be back today as well. I'm sure that I will be going back to Japan in the future, so it's not a big deal (I've been to Japan about 30 times, but there is always something new to do).

That's a pretty good price, but I would want the US warranty on whatever I buy. I didn't see that kind of deal in Akehabara, but again not a big deal. I'm wondering if Nikon is planning to pull a coup and bring out a replacement to compete against the 20D and further reduce the D70 to kill off the DReb and XT. At $660 it actually already does that.

Anyway thanks.

Norm in Fujino
03-04-2005, 08:21 AM
That's a pretty good price, but I would want the US warrantee on whatever I buy. I didn't see that kind of deal in Akehabara, but again not a big deal.

The deal I quoted was an online internet merchant. They're doing quite a bit of that these days, trying to beat everyone on volume and price alone. It's naturally frowned upon by the manufacturers, since they waaay undercut the prices at the official brickfront retailers, but the guarantees are still honored. Only problem is, in most cases, you have to take the camera back to the manufacturer, not the dealer, for warantee repairs if they become necessary (in some cases, even if the camera is DOA). So yes, there is some risk.

D70FAN
03-04-2005, 02:58 PM
The deal I quoted was an online internet merchant. They're doing quite a bit of that these days, trying to beat everyone on volume and price alone. It's naturally frowned upon by the manufacturers, since they waaay undercut the prices at the official brickfront retailers, but the guarantees are still honored. Only problem is, in most cases, you have to take the camera back to the manufacturer, not the dealer, for warantee repairs if they become necessary (in some cases, even if the camera is DOA). So yes, there is some risk.

A little off-topic but where is Fujino Township? I guess I don't venture much beyond the immediate Shinagawa and Osaki (Sony) area when I stay in Shinagawa, and Tamagawa is a fairly large area. A long time ago I used to hang out in Kawasaki when I was an apps engineer at NEC. This trip I spent more time in Shin-Yokohama as our office is there and I have some old freinds in Sagami Hara.

I was hoping to re-shoot Yamashita Park, and China Town in Yokohama with the D70 (I have a lot of 990 pics) but it will have to wait until next time. This was a pretty busy trip anyway as it streched from Shin-Ohirashita (North of Omaya) to Nara in the South. Let's hear it for the Shinkansen and a Japan Rail Pass.

I really enjoy my trips to Japan, even in the summer. ;)

Wife just called, and the D70 is home. Only an hour to go...

Norm in Fujino
03-04-2005, 06:52 PM
A little off-topic but where is Fujino Township? I guess I don't venture much beyond the immediate Shinagawa and Osaki (Sony) area when I stay in Shinagawa, and Tamagawa is a fairly large area. A long time ago I used to hang out in Kawasaki when I was an apps engineer at NEC. This trip I spent more time in Shin-Yokohama as our office is there and I have some old freinds in Sagami Hara.

Fujino is in Kanagawa Prefecture, but at the far northern tip, about an hour west of Shinjuku by the Chuo line train--or automobile. We're north of Sagamihara City (actually, we may be part of the city in another year if the current process of urban merger continues going forward (I'm dead set against it, but what do I know). It's a nice town, lots of natural surroundings, tho the process of merger may destroy it.
Glad you got your camera back!

hg999uk
04-10-2005, 09:35 AM
Unfortunately, until the post mortum comes back from Nikon I really don't know. Except for a blinking memory activity lamp, the camera is 100% dead.
Again, it's not the end of the world, but I already miss having it handy...

George

Did Nikon ever let you know just exactly what the problem was as my D70 has gone exactly the same way :(

HG

D70FAN
04-10-2005, 05:35 PM
George

Did Nikon ever let you know just exactly what the problem was as my D70 has gone exactly the same way :(

HG

Yup. The exposure sensor.

hg999uk
04-11-2005, 05:20 AM
Had a long chat with the Nikon service engineer this morning he is almost certain it is a problem with the DC-DC power board, he estimates that he sees approx 5-6 D70's a week with this same problem and puts it down to poor build quality. It hasn't been helped by the fact that a whole consignment of spares for this part where also defective.

HG

Rhys
04-11-2005, 05:30 AM
Had a long chat with the Nikon service engineer this morning he is almost certain it is a problem with the DC-DC power board, he estimates that he sees approx 5-6 D70's a week with this same problem and puts it down to poor build quality. It hasn't been helped by the fact that a whole consignment of spares for this part where also defective.

HG

It seems then that Nikon are just churning the cheaper dSLRs out in the hope people will upgrade when they break.

It's interesting to note that this looks more of a generic failure than an isolated incident.

D70FAN
04-11-2005, 05:59 AM
It seems then that Nikon are just churning the cheaper dSLRs out in the hope people will upgrade when they break.

It's interesting to note that this looks more of a generic failure than an isolated incident.

I'm not sure that that is the problem, but it certainly doesn't bode well, and may indeed be a limiting factor in my recommending the D70 in the future.

On the other hand Nikon fixed my camera in a very short time, and it functions as good as new. Which is very good indeed.

D70FAN
04-11-2005, 06:05 AM
Had a long chat with the Nikon service engineer this morning he is almost certain it is a problem with the DC-DC power board, he estimates that he sees approx 5-6 D70's a week with this same problem and puts it down to poor build quality. It hasn't been helped by the fact that a whole consignment of spares for this part where also defective.

HG

hg, that's pretty interesting, and may be a serious problem if Nikon decides not to replace these out of warranty. Since the early models like mine have just past the 1 year mark.

I still like the camera a lot, and it is a great camera to shoot, but until we find out more the D70 will be off of my recommended list.

Rhys
04-11-2005, 08:06 AM
I'm not sure that that is the problem, but it certainly doesn't bode well, and may indeed be a limiting factor in my recommending the D70 in the future.

On the other hand Nikon fixed my camera in a very short time, and it functions as good as new. Which is very good indeed.

My big fear with these expensive electronic gizmos (not just cameras) is that they will go pop just after the warranty expires. Having said that, I've had to sue (sucessfully) floggers of duff electronics in the past in order to get the warranty enforced.

I like my Nikon 995 and my Canon S1 IS. My 3100 is pretty good too. I do feel very doubtful though about upgrading to a dSLR for reasons very similar to those when I bought my 35mm kit. At the time, everybody was buying autofocus electronic-shutter cameras. I bought manual mechanical cameras. My manual, mechanical bricks still work while many of the newfangled fancy af, ae cameras have gone to the great camera dealer in the sky.

I will admit that technology is marching forward at quite a lick and that after 2 years, the latest and best digital SLR will be superseeded and eligible for replacement. I do feel though that the cameras should last an absolute minimum of 10 years. This seems to me to be a reasonable life for things. Cars last 10 years before they're uneconomical to repair. Most things - washing machines, cleaners etc last 10 years before replacement is warranted. Even computers will last 10 years. Heck, until recently I was using a computer purchased in 1997 and I only upgraded that because I wanted to put more into the case than the case would handle. Of course, as it was an AT, I had to buy an ATX case and hence a new mainboard, processor, ram etc.

Technology that fails so soon after purchase does not, IMHO, merit its purchase price. I'd pay maybe $100 for a camera that lasts only a year.

D70FAN
04-11-2005, 09:39 AM
My big fear with these expensive electronic gizmos (not just cameras) is that they will go pop just after the warranty expires. Having said that, I've had to sue (sucessfully) floggers of duff electronics in the past in order to get the warranty enforced.

I like my Nikon 995 and my Canon S1 IS. My 3100 is pretty good too. I do feel very doubtful though about upgrading to a dSLR for reasons very similar to those when I bought my 35mm kit. At the time, everybody was buying autofocus electronic-shutter cameras. I bought manual mechanical cameras. My manual, mechanical bricks still work while many of the newfangled fancy af, ae cameras have gone to the great camera dealer in the sky.

I will admit that technology is marching forward at quite a lick and that after 2 years, the latest and best digital SLR will be superseeded and eligible for replacement. I do feel though that the cameras should last an absolute minimum of 10 years. This seems to me to be a reasonable life for things. Cars last 10 years before they're uneconomical to repair. Most things - washing machines, cleaners etc last 10 years before replacement is warranted. Even computers will last 10 years. Heck, until recently I was using a computer purchased in 1997 and I only upgraded that because I wanted to put more into the case than the case would handle. Of course, as it was an AT, I had to buy an ATX case and hence a new mainboard, processor, ram etc.

Technology that fails so soon after purchase does not, IMHO, merit its purchase price. I'd pay maybe $100 for a camera that lasts only a year.

All good points Rhys, and having to send my D70 in for repair after 11 months did not make me a happy camper, but I do realize that things electronic do fail. I've been in the semiconductor industry as both an engineer and marketing shmuck for almost 28 years and, while better, semiconductors are far from perfect. I have been through a lot of computers that will bear that out.

As a plus, Nikons customer service was very good, and the turn around was as they promised (7 working days). Of course this was under warranty. My concern as an owner, with a warranty period now expired, is what happens now that the warranty is over? But that fear is why there are extended warranties (which are a waste of money until you need them).

As most here know, I do like the camera a lot, the images have been superb, and I plan to be using it for many years. Several of those images would not have been captured at all without a digital SLR (not necessarily the D70, but it's performance and features are generally a contributing factor). I have a Nikon FE and a Minolta 3Si and have to agree that neither has failed or even hiccuped in the 20+ years I have owned them, so there is a lot to be said for older technology... as there is for the new.

Unless the D70 fails completely, I have no compelling reason to buy the latest and greatest (again the 20D was a serious challenger, but I blew the money on an SB800 instead). I can comfortably print to 13 x 19 on my trusty (and slow) 2000P and 8 x 10's still look great off the Epson 870, so you see I don't buy technology for technology sake.

I stayed with the 990 for 4 years before buying a dSLR, and my reason for doing so is that I was tired of missing shots, and was ready to go back to an SLR. You don't realize what a leap forward this is until you go back to using an all-in-one as I did when the D70 was in repair.

So the bottom line is that I would still recommend the D70 as a wonderful photographic tool. But will wait to see if the DC-DC converter issue is widespread or just a glitch with the supplier. Remindes me of the E18 Error hubbub.

Anyway, I guess you can argue that we haven't seen this type of problem arrise from the other dSLR's out there, but until I posted this thread no one said anything about the D70 either.

Keeping this all in perspective... I have no doubt that 5-6 cameras require this repair every week. But I would reprimand the Nikon service engineer for making such a negative, now public, statement based on such a relatively low sales to repair rate. Even if you multiply that incidence times the 8-10 service centers worldwide that comes to 50-60 cameras a week, out of a million already sold, and a run-rate of 70K per month. Like I have said before, if Nikon backs these cameras with after-warranty support (for this particular problem), then I have no qualms about my continued recommendation... For what it's worth.

Rhys
04-11-2005, 10:07 AM
I agree totally George. Looking at statistics, the statistical chance of being struck by lightning is low - until you do get struck by lightning. Then the statistics don't really mean a lot.

Nikon after-sales service has always been phenomenal. I've had several freebies from them. When my MD12 battery compartment refused to open, I priced sending my MD12 to them for repair and found that the repair was going to cost more than a replacement battery drawer so I gripped the drawer in a vice and pulled hard. Out it came and as a tribute to Nikon's 20+ year old plastic, it survived intact. Thus, I chipped away the solidified battery goo and cleaned the contacts. I can't imagine doing that with a Nikon digital though.

I'd love to hear about problems Olympus E1 and E-300 owners have. I'm considering going into the wedding photography line and it seems to me that Olympus has the most faithful colour reproduction. My last Olympus suffered from turquoise highlights but I bet those have been conquored by now. My Canon seems to burn out the highlights quite often but I guess that's just because it's a consumer grade camera.

D70FAN
04-11-2005, 11:01 AM
I agree totally George. Looking at statistics, the statistical chance of being struck by lightning is low - until you do get struck by lightning. Then the statistics don't really mean a lot.

Nikon after-sales service has always been phenomenal. I've had several freebies from them. When my MD12 battery compartment refused to open, I priced sending my MD12 to them for repair and found that the repair was going to cost more than a replacement battery drawer so I gripped the drawer in a vice and pulled hard. Out it came and as a tribute to Nikon's 20+ year old plastic, it survived intact. Thus, I chipped away the solidified battery goo and cleaned the contacts. I can't imagine doing that with a Nikon digital though.

I'd love to hear about problems Olympus E1 and E-300 owners have. I'm considering going into the wedding photography line and it seems to me that Olympus has the most faithful colour reproduction. My last Olympus suffered from turquoise highlights but I bet those have been conquored by now. My Canon seems to burn out the highlights quite often but I guess that's just because it's a consumer grade camera.

I have been pretty impressed with pictures from the E-1 and the larger, lower density, CCD may be the reason. While both cameras are 4:3 they definately have different sensors. And if I'm not mistaken the E-300 doesn't like higher ISO's.

If you are thinking about wedding photography then you might also want to reconsider the Fuji S3 (lens compatibility warts and all). The wedding shots I've seen with the S3 really show off the dynamic range improvements of the new Super CCD II. I used an S2 for about a week, and, as you can imagine, it was similar to using a Nikon dSLR. I haven't used the S3 yet, but I would imagine it is similar. A good experience with a $2500 camera.

Let us know how it goes with either camera.

hg999uk
04-12-2005, 01:07 AM
But I would reprimand the Nikon service engineer for making such a negative, now public, statement based on such a relatively low sales to repair rate.

George

I'd be a bit easy on the service engineer, I've known this guy a good number of years and to be truthful Nikon have keeped him well employed during that time. He was just stating the facts as he saw them, better an engineer who talks to you and explains the problem, than one who says nothing, leaving you in the dark. He must be frustrated as having promised his customers (NOT Nikons) their cameras back by a certain date he now has to go back on his word because Nikon cannot deliver working parts, his customers may well stick with Nikon but look for another service agent if they think he has given them (through no fault of his own) shoddy service.

HG

TheObiJuan
04-12-2005, 01:35 AM
Sorry to hear George. I am hoping that since my XT is one of the first shipped out, I do not have problems in the future. :mad:

D70FAN
04-12-2005, 06:21 AM
George

I'd be a bit easy on the service engineer, I've known this guy a good number of years and to be truthful Nikon have keeped him well employed during that time. He was just stating the facts as he saw them, better an engineer who talks to you and explains the problem, than one who says nothing, leaving you in the dark. He must be frustrated as having promised his customers (NOT Nikons) their cameras back by a certain date he now has to go back on his word because Nikon cannot deliver working parts, his customers may well stick with Nikon but look for another service agent if they think he has given them (through no fault of his own) shoddy service.

HG

Yup. Good point. But you and he also have to realize that Nikon (or any other company) doesn't like it anymore than the service engineer or the customers. In manufacturing, things go wrong. Nikon realizes that their business is built on customer service and customer loyalty. So it's not like somebody at Nikon said "hey let's screw this up and tick everybody off".

I think that you may have inadvertantly taken an authoritative private opinion, spoken in frustration, and made it public. While we appreciate the information on the failure mode, and everyone should be aware of it, you could have probably left the speculation out.

So my appologies for the reprimand as I'm sure that the Nikon guy didn't know that a million people would read it. I think we have a tendancy to forget that point (I know I do). Your friends job actually depends on Nikons success, and things going wrong.

D70FAN
04-12-2005, 06:27 AM
Sorry to hear George. I am hoping that since my XT is one of the first shipped out, I do not have problems in the future. :mad:

Juan, thanks, but I've had the camera back since the end of February and it's as good as new. Just a 2 week break. One of these days, if I start doing this to actually make money, I'll buy a second body. I haven't done a wedding tag-along (a paying gig) for a while, but June is a comming.

For now I'll keep my day job, and enjoy photography, as a lifelong hobby, with a single D70 body.

hg999uk
04-20-2005, 05:22 AM
Well I received my D70 back from Nikon yesterday, the problem wasn't as originally surmised, but something to do the boards that take the information from the CCD and write it to the CF card, the engineer wouldn't tell me exactly what the problem was just that it was "an interesting repair" and he had replaced 2 of the internal boards.

HG

D70FAN
04-20-2005, 05:55 AM
Well I received my D70 back from Nikon yesterday, the problem wasn't as originally surmised, but something to do the boards that take the information from the CCD and write it to the CF card, the engineer wouldn't tell me exactly what the problem was just that it was "an interesting repair" and he had replaced 2 of the internal boards.

HG

Glad to hear you have it back. Now let's see some pictures from the U.K.

Nick
04-24-2005, 07:43 AM
George, sorry to hear that yours went too.

Sorry to bump a slightly old thread - I bought my D70 in early '04 and for the past week or two, it's been acting very erratic, not releasing the shutter regardless of focus mode, flicking it to the 'on' mode sometimes does nothing, and sadly, yesterday in the city I got the blinking green light whenever the camera is turned on.

Bad part = no more Nikon warranty.

Potentially beneficial part - I bought a BestBuy 4 year warranty replacement plan. I've used it before on other things; come in, babble technical terms about your problem, and they give you a new one if they have the same model, if not, they give you the equivalent. That's how I got my Sony F717 after my F707 broke. Do you guys think I should try that or contact Nikon and see if they will fix it anyway? It's about 16 days out of warranty and worked fine before.

haikai
04-24-2005, 06:49 PM
Potentially beneficial part - I bought a BestBuy 4 year warranty replacement plan. I've used it before on other things; come in, babble technical terms about your problem, and they give you a new one if they have the same model, if not, they give you the equivalent. That's how I got my Sony F717 after my F707 broke. Do you guys think I should try that or contact Nikon and see if they will fix it anyway? It's about 16 days out of warranty and worked fine before.

if it were me, i'd want to put the Best Buy warranty, which was already paid for, to use rather than spending more money and time sending it to Nikon... who knows, maybe if you wait a few weeks you can get a d70s or something from them! ;) i don't know the fine details of d70s improvements, but perhaps they've addressed some of the more common problems that may prevent this kind of thing in the future.

-hai

D70FAN
04-24-2005, 07:01 PM
George, sorry to hear that yours went too.

Sorry to bump a slightly old thread - I bought my D70 in early '04 and for the past week or two, it's been acting very erratic, not releasing the shutter regardless of focus mode, flicking it to the 'on' mode sometimes does nothing, and sadly, yesterday in the city I got the blinking green light whenever the camera is turned on.

Bad part = no more Nikon warranty.

Potentially beneficial part - I bought a BestBuy 4 year warranty replacement plan. I've used it before on other things; come in, babble technical terms about your problem, and they give you a new one if they have the same model, if not, they give you the equivalent. That's how I got my Sony F717 after my F707 broke. Do you guys think I should try that or contact Nikon and see if they will fix it anyway? It's about 16 days out of warranty and worked fine before.

Dispite other opinions, I would check with Nikon first. If that doesn't work then use the back-up. Nikon service is pretty quick. Let us know if they give you a hassle over the warranty period.