My 7D sucks

[faisal]

This is a rant, you've been warned....

So I've been reviewing cameras for a local website lately. Started off with the 500D, then got the 550D (which btw is rubbish compared to the 7D) and now I've got a 1D Mk4 which makes my 7D look like a joke. I'm annoyed. I can't use my 7D anymore with the 1D around. This sucks..-_-

Btw I'm using the nifty fifty on the 1D just for fun...I feel like a such a noob!! :D

EDIT: If anyone has any questions or wants me to do a comparison, let me know....

[photowerkz]

That's always the danger of trying out expencive gear. The D700 has ruined me. After having tried full frame now, I can't go back to a crop camera, I just can't. Even the D300, that I thought was f'ing brilliant when I had it - it's a no-no. Full frame or nothing.

And soon canon is going to let me borrow a 5D MKII (as soon as its in stock again) along with some of the juciest bits from the canon lineup. Talking with them today, I could have had a 1DS MARK III + ef 14mm f2.8, 24mm f1.4, 35mm f1.4, 85mm f1.2 and 400mm F4 DO IS USM to name a few :eek:

I've got a girl I used to work with who've agreed to let me photograph her. And I'm REALLY scared to see what the 5D MKII + 85mm f1.2 combo can deliver, 'cause it's on loan so I have to give it back.. And if I want it again.. I have to buy it... My savings account is trembling. Liking the 400mm F4 is just not an option. I have to mentally prepear myself to hate it :D

And how will it be to go back to 12 megapixel raw files on the d700 after having worked with 21 megapixel files... I'm worried this might get very expencive.

Anyways.. Regarding the 7D and MKIV: it would be nice to see some high iso / low light samples. How are they at iso 1600 in dim light?

[faisal]

Till now the 1D Mk4 is nailing the shots even at ISO 10000 though I haven't loaded the images on the computer yet. They've even given me a 14mm fisheye and the 100mm IS macro and I'm already in love with the 100mm...this is not going end well...

Will do some real life tests and post them here....but I can already tell that my 7D doesn't have a chance...

And the shutter just sounds so beautiful...I'm so in love with the sound... :eek:

On a side note, I've got a Samsung NX10 as well...it looks like a P&S next to the 1D MK4....will post some pictures of them together tomorrow... :D

[Csae]

And the shutter just sounds so beautiful...I'm so in love with the sound... :eek:


Thats what happened to me when i had that 1ds mk2 for a while...

I had it maybe a month, and due to just 2 reasons couldn't keep it and ended up with a 5dmk2, at first i was like ah hell no! wheres a 1ds mk3, i can't do this crippled shit again....

Then i got to learn the camera, move around its quirks and focus on just what i could do with the extra $ by not getting the 1dsmk3....

Needless to say, i survived :P

I would like you to try a handheld video with the 100mm IS, if you have time, i have heard the IS on it is decent enough for video...

@d700, if you're worried about not wanting to go back to the d700, just stick to outer AF points on the 5dmk2 :P

[Rasidel Slika]

That's always the danger of trying out expencive gear. The D700 has ruined me. After having tried full frame now, I can't go back to a crop camera, I just can't. Even the D300, that I thought was f'ing brilliant when I had it - it's a no-no. Full frame or nothing.

And soon canon is going to let me borrow a 5D MKII (as soon as its in stock again) along with some of the juciest bits from the canon lineup. Talking with them today, I could have had a 1DS MARK III + ef 14mm f2.8, 24mm f1.4, 35mm f1.4, 85mm f1.2 and 400mm F4 DO IS USM to name a few :eek:

I've got a girl I used to work with who've agreed to let me photograph her. And I'm REALLY scared to see what the 5D MKII + 85mm f1.2 combo can deliver, 'cause it's on loan so I have to give it back.. And if I want it again.. I have to buy it... My savings account is trembling. Liking the 400mm F4 is just not an option. I have to mentally prepear myself to hate it :D

And how will it be to go back to 12 megapixel raw files on the d700 after having worked with 21 megapixel files... I'm worried this might get very expencive.

Anyways.. Regarding the 7D and MKIV: it would be nice to see some high iso / low light samples. How are they at iso 1600 in dim light?
full frame is so damn overrated. what do you like so much about it, compared to cropped?

[Rasidel Slika]

oh and to the OP, are you surprised that a $5000 camera is a lot better than a $1500 one?

[photowerkz]

full frame is so damn overrated. what do you like so much about it, compared to cropped?

Comparing images from the D300 and D700, the D700 ones seem to have more depth to them and a more analogue feel. I get gradients where the D300 only gave me solid colors. The D300 pictures look flat and digital in comparison. Its hard to explain, but easy to see when you've used both for a long time.

[Nickcanada]

full frame is so damn overrated. what do you like so much about it, compared to cropped?

Haha, I totally agree.

[Elisha]

Comparing images from the D300 and D700, the D700 ones seem to have more depth to them and a more analogue feel. I get gradients where the D300 only gave me solid colors. The D300 pictures look flat and digital in comparison. Its hard to explain, but easy to see when you've used both for a long time.

The gradients are due to DR and not really FF vs Crop.
Plus I believe the D700 is shooting 14-bit compared to 12-bit on the D300.

[Gopher]

Great pro-caliber IQ, image depth, gloriously perfect AF; it's all so overrated. Just give me one notch above and average P&S and I'll be happy. Psyche!

[Rasidel Slika]

Comparing images from the D300 and D700, the D700 ones seem to have more depth to them and a more analogue feel. I get gradients where the D300 only gave me solid colors. The D300 pictures look flat and digital in comparison. Its hard to explain, but easy to see when you've used both for a long time.
comparing 5D1 to 7D, the 5's shots look horrible (unless they are processed, then they get better). do you see what I'm getting at?

[Rasidel Slika]

The gradients are due to DR and not really FF vs Crop.
Plus I believe the D700 is shooting 14-bit compared to 12-bit on the D300.
^^^this. the differences you see are not because its FF. its other factors.

and, I think the biggest reason ppl feel FF is so great is because of the change in lens FL's, compared to cropped. again, this is due to the lenses, not the sensor. how about the negatives of FF. how about not being able to find one damn UWA lens for 5d that costs less than 2g. how about that. ;p

[faisal]

oh and to the OP, are you surprised that a $5000 camera is a lot better than a $1500 one?

No, I'm not...I'm just ranting. :p

[TenD]

I love my full frame, I like my crop, they are both tools. I recently made a large change in my system: 5DC replaced by 1Ds Mark II, and 30D replaced by 1D Mark III. Pro build, pro focus, full viewfinder. The difference between FF and crop is pixel density. How many pixels can you cram on a given size sensor? Noise starts to creep in, and without excellent software to mitigate this, you get what Sony has, decent bodies with comparable sensors(they make Nikon's sensors), that have more noise than other bodies of the same ilk.

Is FF that much better, yes and no. The lenses (on the 1Ds) are what I remember them being on my 35mm film camera, that is a plus for me. Noise, leaps and bounds better than a crop. My original intent this summer was to get a 7D to replace my aging 30D, but after a colleague purchased one and I got a chance to view the output, I was a little disappointed. Noise creeps in pretty fast, especially in the shadows. I went old school, lower pixel density, with robust build, and excellent autofocus.

I don't really think FF is a do all end all to anything, but I think pixel density is VERY important, and the less density I can get with enough resolution is what I am after. The lesser density produces better results. The 7D will have to wait.

[photowerkz]

comparing 5D1 to 7D, the 5's shots look horrible (unless they are processed, then they get better). do you see what I'm getting at?

No, because you're comparing and old camera to a brand new one and that's not about FF vs CROP - that's about old tech vs new tech and not relevant at all. I'm comparing the D300 to the D700 - they're the same generation. And I used 14bit on the D300 aswell, so that's not an issue.

But I've had this discussion before on a different forum, and it just turned into a hate-fest between CROP and FF users so I'm not interrested in that all over again :) I love FF, and I totally see why there are so many FF users who do the same. And you don't understand what we love so much about it. Lets just leave it at that ;)

[Csae]

I still liked the 5d1's images better then the 7ds.

My portfolio has some 100$ P&S pics from a camera i bought uh 5 years ago. Nobody can tell.

The Main difference in all these cameras isn't the IQ, its there, sure, but the main difference is all the other options features.

Having a WB on the back? Love it. Having a custom 1button hold AF point on demand ? Drool.

These are things that made getting rid of the 1ds2 so hard for me, there are other things in a camera then just IQ when you use it often.

Since i don't use it 24/7 the 1series features were not that needed for me, hence the 5d2, at the end of the day, almost all images look similar to me -camera wise- other then DOF, and noise levels.

All FF cameras have thinner DOF, which is both good and bad, for me its good.

So uh... moving on? Or at least start this talk again when dMF are more common, so we can have more ground to cover :P

[Rasidel Slika]

good discussion

No, because you're comparing and old camera to a brand new one and that's not about FF vs CROP - that's about old tech vs new tech and not relevant at all. I'm comparing the D300 to the D700 - they're the same generation. And I used 14bit on the D300 aswell, so that's not an issue.

But I've had this discussion before on a different forum, and it just turned into a hate-fest between CROP and FF users so I'm not interrested in that all over again :) I love FF, and I totally see why there are so many FF users who do the same. And you don't understand what we love so much about it. Lets just leave it at that ;)
I agree, from what I have seen, that pictures from the D700 look better than the D300. But, this appears to be the result of processing power, not focal length / DOF. The images look smoother, but at the same time more defined.

I know the larger sensor = more space for pixels etc. etc. = less noise etc. etc. but with the new generation of cameras processing power mitigates noise also - and can be used as a substitute for FF.

just to be clear, I have a 5D and a 7D. and, I plan to get the 5D3. I know there are advantages to FF but I do not think it's the "night and day" kind off difference people like to claim it is. I hear people say things like "can't wait to go FF" and it just drives me up a wall. Like they're expecting miracles to happen or something. "Once you go FF you'll never go back". This is all just nonsense to me.

[faisal]

The 1D MK4 isn't FF but it blows the 7D away when it comes to high ISO performance but if I pixel peep, both the images look identical apart from the obvious DOF difference.

If I were to compare a 5D and 7D, the 7D triumphs it in ever possible way. Compare the 5D Mk2 and the 7D, the 5D has a clear advantage over the 7D when it comes to noise but apart from that they are almost identical with the 7D being better when it comes to AF.

So it depends on what camera you're trying to compare. And honestly, as I review more cameras, what really makes me feel nice about the 7D is it's brilliant viewfinder. It's the best thing about it...

The only clear advantage I see about a FF is DOF especially in videos. Put a 50mm f1.8 on a 5D Mk2 and it does wonders for children videos.

[TenD]

good discussion
I know the larger sensor = more space for pixels etc. etc. = less noise etc. etc. but with the new generation of cameras processing power mitigates noise also - and can be used as a substitute for FF.

just to be clear, I have a 5D and a 7D. and, I plan to get the 5D3. I know there are advantages to FF but I do not think it's the "night and day" kind off difference people like to claim it is. I hear people say things like "can't wait to go FF" and it just drives me up a wall. Like they're expecting miracles to happen or something. "Once you go FF you'll never go back". This is all just nonsense to me.

I agree with you there. There isn't anything magical about a FF camera, you can achieve probably 90% of FF with a crop body. Each has it's place, and again there is nothing so special about shooting FF as far as the IQ is concerned in most situations.

I worry a little about camera processing to reduce noise, but I guess all bodies do it to a certain extent. I can't even put my finger on why that bothers me, but it does. I guess I still think in film and it was a simple procedure using a light sensitive media that reacted in the same way to being exposed to light. Add light and you get this result, no computer involved. With ISO 100, 50, 64 you could expect a clean frame. Go to 400 or 800 and you get noise. Very basic, very simple. The same holds true basically in a digital camera, but as they cram more pixels on a sensor the processing engines must get more powerful and faster. There is a lot of stuff going on there, makes me a bit nervous but at the same time I certainly appreciate the advances from my 10D.

[Rasidel Slika]

The 1D MK4 isn't FF but it blows the 7D away when it comes to high ISO performance but if I pixel peep, both the images look identical apart from the obvious DOF difference.

If I were to compare a 5D and 7D, the 7D triumphs it in ever possible way. Compare the 5D Mk2 and the 7D, the 5D has a clear advantage over the 7D when it comes to noise but apart from that they are almost identical with the 7D being better when it comes to AF.

So it depends on what camera you're trying to compare. And honestly, as I review more cameras, what really makes me feel nice about the 7D is it's brilliant viewfinder. It's the best thing about it...

The only clear advantage I see about a FF is DOF especially in videos. Put a 50mm f1.8 on a 5D Mk2 and it does wonders for children videos.
the most important part..... is the lens.

[Elisha]

Canon seems to draw clear lines between models.
Unlike Nikon which overlap a little.
They gave the 5D2 a beautiful sensor but crippled it's AF.
They gave the 7D awesome AF, build and a few other gizmos but somewhat crippled it's sensor by not giving it FF.

The D700 is the perfect balance IMHO sans the resolution and video.
Good AF, Flash commander, awesome build, and good sensor.

[faisal]

the most important part..... is the lens.

I've got to agree to that which is why I try to use the same lenses when comparing... :)

[cdr116]

If you don't like your 7D, I would be happy to take it off your hands :D

[faisal]

Only if you replace it with a 1D Mk4....so do we have a deal!! :D