Help to choose zoom camera for an enthusiast kid???

[Gintaras]

I am thinking about buying a new camera for my daughter (17y.o.). Right now she uses Canon SD700IS for snaps and photos.

Her shooting habits include both close ups and telephoto snaps, she also attempts to do some low light street photography.

I was thinking about buying her some bit more serious piece of tech, with good zoom and low light capabilities. Assuming camera must NOT be very compact, size still matters. I am afraid she would not like something too bulky and would prefer something easily fitting in her ladies backpack.

I also wish that her new camera includes some more manual controls so she can learn and step up in her photography.

I put the budget at 300-500$, but if you think there is no camera that come close to all her needs then please suggest better trade offs. Low light and good zoom would be most important.

Here are my answers to QUESTIONAIRE:

---------------------------------------------

Budget

* 300-500$ range

Size

* Mid compact but not very compact

Features

* max 10-12MP

* Zoom = 8x-12x

* How important is “image quality” to you? (Rate using a scale of 1-10): 10

* Do you care for manual controls?: YES

* Easy to use, good menu and controls layout

General Usage

* What will you generally use the camera for?: Snapshots, Close Up, Wildlife, Low Light

* Will you be making big prints of your photos or not?: NO, max A4

Will you be shooting a lot of indoor photos or low light photos?: YES

Will you be shooting sports and/or action photos?: YES

Miscellaneous

Are there particular brands you like or hate?: I am leaning to Canon, Sony, Panasonic (applies only to digital non-DSLR)
Please do not suggest DSLR, only Digital Zooms and Ultrazooms

Are there particular models you already have in mind?: NOT

(If applicable) Do you need any of the following special features?
Wide Angle: must be nice to have but not critical
Image Stabilization: a MUST have
Weatherproof: not critical
Hotshoe: not critical
Rotating LCD: not critical

[AdamW]

I'd say a Canon G10 or G11. Advanced enough to allow her to explore and play and learn.

[David Metsky]

That doesn't meet the zoom requirements, nor does the Canon S90 or the Sony WX1, either of which would be my choice. Also throw in the Fuji F200.

Going for a bigger zoom will make the camera more flexible at the cost of size and some low light performance. If you must have that consider the Fuji F70. The other compact ultrazooms like the Canon Sx200 and Sony H20 are a bit bigger and will have lower image quality than the ones listed above, although both are pretty good cameras.

If you want a 10 for image quality, especially in low light, I'd look at cameras with slightly less zoom. They make better choices for an enthusiast IMO, with the exception of shooting sports and some types of wildlife.

[jamessens]

Hi there I am James.
I want your suggestion that my son is very much interested in photography and he has just started a Photography course and is demanding for a camera. I want to ask that which camera should I buy which give a ultimate zooming and unique feature for better performance.
Thanks and waiting for reviews.

[Gintaras]

Adam, i also thought of G10 or G11, but like David said it, both choices are not zoomy at all :-)

I also think the size of G10 or G11 will be an overkill for her, and the cost would be close to entry level DSLR in which case better take smallish Oly ... but you know she does not want DSLR and she hates the idea to exchange lenses on camera. So I am afraid I will be looking for digital zoom and not anything else :-(

I was thinking about Canon Sx10IS and Sx1IS, then Fuji F70EXR, but then I popped into Panasonic TZ1 and TZ3 (in Europe analogue model is TZ7). I googled camera ratings and found most reviewers recommend Panasonic over both Canon and Fuji. However some people like Fuji a lot. In my whole photography experience I stayed away from non-core manufacturers, so all my cameras were either Canon or Nikon. So I am not knowledgeable about Fuji at all.

I would love to hear opinions on the said models but might be you have another good camera in mind.

[Gintaras]

I also see that newer Canon SX1, Sony WX1 and Casio ProEX-FH20 have CMOS sensor, so I wonder how much that affects image quality compared to CCD sensor on a non-DSLR camera???

[David Metsky]

Are you willing to go for a bigger camera like the SX1? I'd stay away from the Casio - the reviews are not very good for image quality.

Take a look at the photo galleries in the reviews here - you can judge the image quality yourself. The CMOS cameras are impressive in many ways, but also expensive.

The Panasonic TZ1/3 are great cameras, but no manual controls so I think they're not suitable for an enthusiast who wants to get into photography.

[speaklightly]

Gintares-

The canon SX-1 is a very large bridge camera. Size would probably eliminate it. The Sony WX-1 is great in theory, but has very soft images. I returned mine. Don't waste your time with Casio, they have terrible image quality.

The Fuji F-70EXR is a very good, but complex camera. It is the kind of camera where you have to carry the camera instructions with you all the time and never be in a hurry to take a photo. I also returned that camera as well.

Sarah Joyce

[Gintaras]

Thanks for opinions. Since this is my daughter who wants camera I took her to a shop yesterday. Of all cameras she liked were those:

Panasonic DMC-TZ7 @268 Euros
Sony DSC-H20 @225 Euros
Fujifilm F70EXR @230 Euros
Casio EX-H10 @240 Euros

I also would add Canon PowerShot SX200 IS ... but heard it has poorer image quality?

I did not know that TZ7 has no manual controls, are there at least some? Sony H20, she liked that camera a lot, from feel to use and look. It was indeed nicest of all four and it looked more like professional camera make wise. Fuji, looked nice too, more compact than Panasonic, and I heard image quality is very good.

As a I talked again to my daughter her priorities are:

a) great image quality overall
b) long enough telezoom (min 8x)
c) very good ISO/ poor light image quality

She wants take images of evening city and sometimes zoom in for situations or action/wildlife.

I was trying to hand her Canon SX1, which is hell of a camera, but she was concerned about this camera being too big. Also I read some users complain about digital noise indoors on SX1, how true? I myself liked Sx1 a lot.

If eliminate Casio because of poor image quality, then it looks right now our list consists of: Panasonic TZ7, Sony H20 and Fuji F70.

So which one of those would make it???

NB: if for me I would hand her a small DSLR like Oly 420 or kind, but she refused that flatly saying too large too bulky :o

[speaklightly]

gintares-

Based on the experience with my children, the Sony H-20 is quite hard to beat. While it does not have a true wide angle, it does have 10X optical zoom, along with the best built-in flash in that market niche. Being a point and shoot camera, it forte is not high ISO, existing light photos.

The Fuji F-70EXR is a nice camera. However, there are a myriad of options using the EXR portion of the camera that makes it almost imperative to carry the owners manual with you at all times. It might me more complex than your daughter my want as a starter camera.

Sarah Joyce

[TheWengler]

My gf uses a Panasonic TZ5. My only complaints are no full manual controls and too much noise reduction. Don't know anything about the newer model.

[Gintaras]

Sarah and Lucas, thanks.

Sarah, actually I forgot to mention, my daughter uses Canon SD700IS right now, which is excellent P&S. So she is not so novice. But you are correct, most of the time she is Auto mode shooter and never cared to explore anything beyond that. However times changed now, after she was seeing my low light photos and was amazed by the result. Now on she wants zoom and low light, and for getting descent lowlight perhaps there must be some manual controls plus WB option. So this is why I am crashing my head, otherwise I would not bother since SD700 is excellent camera worth every penny and I would not swap it for newer SD models.

Lucas, I was thinking about Panas, problem is I used Leica DLux4 from my friend and saw the photos, and I did not like what I saw photo wise. Knowing that Leica is expensive reincarnation of Panasonic model I doubt that images will be nicer or better in low light not mention Canon SD line which delivers more pleasing photos. My impression from Leica was: excellent glass and make, stupid camera :-) And I need that photos look great not only on camere LCD but also on my monitor and on print :)

This is why I came to Sony H20 which surprisingly looks very sturdy and professional SOO.... I even did not figure this was P&S, cool!!!! And Fuji which gets really good reviews on the capabilities and low light, though I wonder how they do that better than Canon or Sony.

I forgot to mention Canon SX200 which sounds like a good camera, but I see it some people complain about too much digital noise in photos even indoors, how true I do not know.

[Phill D]

Gintares dont forget the lack of optical viewfinder on some of the newer cameras you are considering. This is a trend with the newer small cameras. If that will be an issue you may be better looking at some of the slightly larger bridge cameras with EVFs. Some of them are pretty small eg the panasonic FZ's considering what they do. One other point I suspect you wont see much IQ or low light (possibly with the exception of the fujis here) improvement in any of the ones you are condsidering for your extra cash over the pretty good P&S you have already so it's mainly going to be versatility & features you'll get unless you go for a dslr or maybe one of the micro 4/3's cameras. Then you will get a substantial improvement in low light capability.

[Gintaras]

Phill, agree, the main feature SD700 lacks is superzoom. Concerning 4/3s I am not sure since prices of 4/3s are stellar in comparison and they are not so compact camers. What 4/3s you would recommend? I tried Oly Pen and did not like it so much. Have not seen other camera makers on the shelf yet.

[speaklightly]

Gintaras-

It has been rumored that Sony, Nikon, and Kodak will announce new m4/3 models just prior to PMA in January. There is also the rumored expectation that we are also going to see the first fixed lens m4/3 cameras as well. So that m4/3 market could explode over the next 2 to 3 months. Naturally this will probably break the dominant sway and holding the price line strategies, that Panasonic and Olympus have engaged in, thus far.

If you are interested in a m4/3 camera for your daughter, then I would suggest waiting a bit, as in might be profitable in terms of increased camera selection and in low m4/3 camera prices.

In the camera market's current state, knowing your daughter's desire for a smaller camera, the offerings are rather slim, and certainly not stellar. The Sony H-20 and the Kodak Z-950 cameras have the more desirable features. The Son H-20, is nearly the best of the lot in my opinion. It has the best in camera automation, has the best built in flash unit, HD video clips, and all contained within a rather small, but plump camera body. The Kodak Z-950, in the same price range, is fairly new, offering 10X optical zoom, and higher ISO capabilities, in a flat slim body format, that might be more attractive to your daughter. yes, it is surprising that it has come from Kodak, but there it is offering full IS, 10X optical zoom, and high ISO capabilities in a rather attractive package. Kodak has marketed the Z-950 to compete with Canon's SX-200 which you are correct does have rather noisy images, and not much in the high ISO cpability department. It was also designed to compete against the Panasonic ZS1/ZS3 cameras which offer, really no manual controls, and a full measure of noise.

Here is an ISO 800 photo sample from the Kodak Z-950.

Sarah Joyce

[speaklightly]

Gintaras-

And here is the same photo at ISO 1600.

Sarah Joyce

[Gintaras]

Sarah, thanks, I will take a note and thanks for good advice. I agree on 4/3s it makes sense to wait a bit