Pano help needed

[Flossmoor40D]

Looking for some thoughts and insite on taking good stitched pano's. Several of you have posted some very nice pano's recently so I am looking for some help.

What focal length do you try to stay above when you take your pano's to eliminate the distortion on the straight lines using wide angle lenses?

What software do you use to stitch them together? I have been using photostitch that came with my camera.

Thanks in advance. Been trying to take one of my house to show off the fall colors and landscaping but have been getting to much distortion. First attempt was with my 17-40 at 35mm. Second attempt was with my 50mm.

Any and all input and advice is welcome.

[FLiPMaRC]

I'm usually at the widest focal length, Av mode, and portrait orientation. <--- from Faisal :D

Then I use CS3 to stitch ... example. (http://www.pbase.com/marcjosef/image/114716758/original.jpg)

[Flossmoor40D]

I'm usually at the widest focal length, Av mode, and portrait orientation. <--- from Faisal :D

Then I use CS3 to stitch ... example. (http://www.pbase.com/marcjosef/image/114716758/original.jpg)

How much overlap from shot to shot?

[FLiPMaRC]

I try to do about 25% overlap. I shoot handheld and just guess the overlap. ^ That example I posted is 12 shots.


This (http://www.pbase.com/image/112039618/original.jpg) one is 8 shots. Notice how "skinny" it is. It's because I shot it in landscape orientation. It's better to shoot in portrait.

[Flossmoor40D]

Thanks. Have you done a stacked pano? Meaning the first 5-6 shots cover a straight line across the bottom of the desired subject. The next 5-6 shots also cover a straight line ascross the middle of the desired subject. The last 5-6 shots also cover a straight line across the top of the desired subject.

[FLiPMaRC]

No sorry. I have not.

[faisal]

Have no fear...Panorama specialist is here... :D :p

Basically I don't bother with the focal length any more cause I manage to stitch anything nowadays...But in you case, I'd work out how bad (distortion wise) you lens is at 17mm by doing some test panoramas. If it's decent enough i.e no problem stitching then use 17mm. You could even shoot at 20mm, to get that slightly less distortion if you feel like it. As FLiPMaRC mentioned, I prefer shooting in portrait orientation to get that extra space above and below my main subject to allow cropping/fixing distortion. Plus it's better to keep the subject in the middle of a portrait oriented shot to reduce distortion effect. If you really want to be picky about distortion than shoot at 50mm but it's a PAIN to stitch 25shots (yep, done that) when a 18mm 4 shot panorama could do it with a bit of distortion. Try to stay at the nodal point when panning though it can be ignored. I try to overlap my shots by at least 25% to allow the software to stitch easily. Whatever mode you shoot in, make sure you keep the settings the same. Some people like to keep their focus the same i.e focus in one shot and then shift to manual focus to keep the focus distance the same in the other shots. I prefer to keep focusing for every shot....I'm sure there are a few other points that I can't think of right now, try searching a for a post made by me that had a whole list of points...

Regarding software...I've found photoshop>file>automate>photomerge (in CS3) the best option though recently a freebie software called microsoft ICE is doing a better job. If you like more control over the panorama stitching then you can choose to use PTGui.

EDIT: I have tried a stacked Panorama, same technique as a normal panorama though distortion could be a bigger issue here so using a slightly longer focal length will be preferred...

[FLiPMaRC]

^ Yeah, what he said :p :D

[Flossmoor40D]

Thanks Faisal. Going to gry it again in the next couple days. I'll post some results this time.

[Flossmoor40D]

Went back and found some older shots that were meant for stitching that photostitch couldn't make work. Attempted again tonight using photoshop elements 7.0 and got it to go. Plenty of distortion in the lines of the buildings but this was shot landscape at 17mm so I guess you can't get rid of that completely. Thoughts?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2604/4050891441_c945414808_b.jpg

[Flossmoor40D]

This one is a 15 shot stitch shot at 50mm in portrait format (3 rows of 5 pictures). Nothing done in post processing yet other than sizing it down so I could get it on Flickr.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2704/4052045856_d28d0f2196_b.jpg

[longisland.km]

my current choice for stitching panorama shots is hugin. It is an open source program with a ton of features - and its price is awesome - FREE! I think it works better than CS3.

These two were done with hugin:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2664/3902702350_a776435a6b_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3900287308_5478a01343_o.jpg

Mind you, CS3 isn't bad either - although sometimes it does mess up. In the shot below, it didn't have any problem:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3141/3101827243_4cbfe9d004_b.jpg

But I know I've had some panos in the past where CS3 didn't do a good job, but can't remember which ones right now. I've not had any problems since switching to hugin.

[michaelb]

my current choice for stitching panorama shots is hugin. It is an open source program with a ton of features - and its price is awesome - FREE! I think it works better than CS3.

These two were done with hugin:
...



^ - Nice.

Faisal is the pano master here, but I'll throw in my 2 cents.

1. I second the Hugin recommendation. I don't have CS3 and hugin works well for me.

2. I don't like going any wider than 50mm in FF (35mm in 1.6X crop) because of distortion.

Here's one of mine from Hugin that I posted in the Photo of the Day thread recently.


50mm on FF, hand-held, 3 shots combined in Hugin...(2 stop ND grad used)....
http://brownphotography.smugmug.com/photos/690492003_Q9FKg-O.jpg

[faisal]

Scott....I like the first panorama but the tilted buildings spoils it for me. In the second panorama, the bricks seem to not have a uniform colour, not sure if it's like that in real but it really looks like the camera settings were not the same for all the shots...also I can clearly see a stitch mark on the left while I think I can see a few more around the centre section. But kudos to you for trying cause that subject is difficult to execute due to the varies lines created by the bricks.

[Flossmoor40D]

Thanks guys.

Michael, I love that shot. Illinois is such a flat state, makes it hard for me to find any kind of vista like that. I think the subjects that I have chosen thus far really enhance the distortion given all the perpendicular and parallel lines in them.

Faisal, you are correct, these shots were done handheld in AV mode very quickly just to test out the pano feature in elements 7.0 using probably the hardest subject you can find for stitching purposes.

None the less I will keep screwing around with the pano's.

Need to rethink my strategy on how best to shoot our house. Am trying to get a nice shot of it from the front to make a print of with the fall colors and landscaping. Not sure I can get the whole thing in one shot at 17mm and if I do how bad will the edges be distored.

[Flossmoor40D]

Oops, sorry LongIsland I forgot to thank you as well.

Where is the best source for finding the download/install for hugin, or do I have to compile it in multiple steps as I have read on the hugin page?

EDIT - found an easy download link here - http://sourceforge.net/projects/hugin/

[JFOPie]

Hi -

I generally use the equivalent of 300mm focal length (I'm an Olympus fan, but what I have to say applies in general). I use a robotic panorama head to achieve panorama nirvana, as can be seen here:

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w233/JohnF1956/P7271050.jpg

and

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w233/JohnF1956/P7240567.jpg

It's the Epic 100 from Gigapan Systems, which can handle cameras up to around 3lbs all told. The E510 I use remains under that weight with either the kit 40-150, a Nikon 200 f4 or my favorite, the Leica 180 f3.4 APO lens.

Here's an example of what I can get using the hardware:

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w233/JohnF1956/E30NY1small.png

and this:

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w233/JohnF1956/ESB8small.png

and this, despite the apparent non-panorama format:

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w233/JohnF1956/ESB1bwsmall.png

Using it is extremely simple: since it is a robot head, you use a control panel to set up the field of view, the upper left hand corner, the lower left hand corner, and which pattern to use (verticals, horozontals, top or bottom first):

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w233/JohnF1956/P7271049.jpg

And for those wondering about the photos: taken from the viewing platform at the Empire State Building, which does NOT allow tripods. I got around the problem by using this:

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w233/JohnF1956/P7200150.jpg

My largest panorama is not quite 3 gigapixels, with around 700 pictures. That's my limit based on battery limitations...

JohnF

PS: Have no connection with gigapan other than being a happy camper with their product. Was in the beta program...

PPS: They do have a "pro" head in development to handle heavier cameras, but it's not out ... yet. Will have two arms (and motors) to handle heavier weights...but won't be cheap!

[FLiPMaRC]

:cool: Interesting gear JohnF.

[faisal]

I'm curious. If you took 700shots. What was the fps like cause won't there be a shift in light if it took too long to take those shots??

As FLiPMaRC said. Interesting equipment. Any particular reason to use such long focal lengths cause if I'm right, distortion should not be a problem at anything over 85mm (or some where around there) which in you case should be 40mm.

[FLiPMaRC]

I'm curious. If you took 700shots. What was the fps like cause won't there be a shift in light if it took too long to take those shots??

As FLiPMaRC said. Interesting equipment. Any particular reason to use such long focal lengths cause if I'm right, distortion should not be a problem at anything over 85mm (or some where around there) which in you case should be 40mm.

To my understanding, it's specialty gear. It's used to create humongous gigapixel panoramas where you can zoom in.

Example: http://gigapan.org/viewGigapan.php?id=15374

^ Zoom in to see the people's faces :D On another forum, we had a contest in finding the hottest chick in that pic, LOL! :D

[JFOPie]

I'm curious. If you took 700shots. What was the fps like cause won't there be a shift in light if it took too long to take those shots??

As FLiPMaRC said. Interesting equipment. Any particular reason to use such long focal lengths cause if I'm right, distortion should not be a problem at anything over 85mm (or some where around there) which in you case should be 40mm.

Hi -

The system was set to take a picture every 2 seconds. That's to allow the movement vibrations - they're not strong, but they are there - to dampen out to improve image sharpness.

Everything is set manual: focus, exposure, ISO, WB, the works. This does require some thinking to ensure that you are not exceeding the dynamic range of the camera sensor, or, alternatively, that you don't care. :-)

I use an incident light meter from my film days (an electronic Sekonic something-or-other) and have use the E510 long enough to understand where its dynamic range strengths and weaknesses are (nice long white range, fairly short dark range that can be extended in Lightroom nicely via batch). Then again, I was a fan of the Zone System and once you've learned those ways of looking at exposure, working manually is not a problem.

Distortion isn't an issue at all: I usually shoot at f8 for optimum sharpness. Daylight is almost invariably 1/250th with ISO 100. Night shots are another story entirely and I'm still working on those...

The key with the head is getting an image that is extraordinarily detailed and capable of extreme printing out to ridiculous sizes, such that you really are hard pressed to find a "normal" printer who can handle such extremely large sizes (one resolved out, printed at 300 dpi, to something like 5 feet vertical by 18 feet horizontal!), but I've found that advertising printers happily work with such images and usually have the kit to handle the 3GB TIFF files that the system can produce.

I was in one the beta program and had the beta head for 2 years. I did around 80 shots with it (I'm an economist with a heavy work load in the real world, ca 60 hour weeks), but it only took P&S cameras (used a Canon SX100 IS for it, which is actually, if you ignore some minor problems with resolution and color fringing, quite a nice camera); the Epic 100 handles the E510 with no problems and gives, for me, clearly superior results: while I tend not to take as many pictures per panorama, the final results are clearly superior.

I've done around 60 with the Epic 100 head (and will be at the Lorelei in Germany this weekend to do one). The only real criticism I have of the unit is that it tends to be very finicky with batteries (rechargeable NiMH) and unfortunately I have a bunch which work fine freshly charged but fail to stand the test of several weeks of non-use...

The software works well (proprietary to the system), just pop in the pics and the process is completely automatic, including an uploader for the gigapan web page.

Here are examples using the Canon SX100 IS:

http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/26093/

http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/25686/

These were done with the E510:

http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/30178/

http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/31305/

http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/30268/

http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/31369/

http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/31072/

http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/31353/

http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/30004/

http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/30288/

:-)

JohnF

[FLiPMaRC]

:cool: Amazing GigaPanos