Let's buy a new camera

[executioner28]

Hi all, first post and already in a quick need of your help. I have to buy a camera in two weeks time cause I'm taking a road trip and would like to have my new camera with me. :)

Budget
I'll go as up as 300-350 euros.

Size
I own a Canon Powershot A560 (91.2 x 64.0 x 43.1mm) so I wouldn't go for bigger. Actually the A560 is a bih thick for me (43mm), so if I could I would go for less thick model.

Features
Megapixels aren't really an issue, I think I would be happy with 8mpix. Zoom? Well I need more than 4x that my A560 has, so 6/8/10 maybe? Image quality is important, especially shooting a room full of laser lights (dance parties, etc.) but also video. Cause my A560 fails in that. The loud bass kills my video files (the audio part anyway) so I need a camera with good microphone and maybe HD recording, although not necessarily.

General Usage
A bit of nature shooting but also parties with lots of laser lights, smoke, visual effects in a dark environment. But also good zoom so I can pake pictures of DJ performing. I always make videos, so I would like a good video camera, that is capable to record in loud environment.

Miscellaneous
I was always thought that Canon is the best, but I'm willing to go to another brand if it's better in my price range. Maybe I'd prefer camera that has AA batteries cause I have two sets of rechargeable batteries and if possible to stick to SD memory cards.


thank you

well I think that is it... please help me out


p.s. I was looking at Powershot SX200 and SX110 IS but please say what you think

[David Metsky]

Pretty much no small camera is going to help you in a dark room full of people and lasers, smoke, and digital effects, especially with a big zoom. Right now, your expectations are a little high. And for most small cameras, the sound in the video is not a strong suit. It would be hard to capture realistic sound with the current crop of cameras.

Small generally means no AA batteries so you may have to give that up. The cameras that occur to me would be the Sony WX1, the Fuji F70 or F200, or the Canon S90.

[executioner28]

thanks for replaying David...

just wanted to say that I'd like to stay in the range (as far as the dimesions go) of my A560. Don't want to be stopped at the entrance of an dance event and be forbidden to go inside cause of the professional camera, although it's not. If you know what I mean.

So AA I think are a must have, don't wanna ran out of power during filming. Btw I am very pleased with the sound in Ixus 90 IS, a guy I met had it and I was very pleasantly surprised.

This is what i took with A560. It's pretty bad by your standards I guess. Btw A560has no IS so don't be too harsh on me. :)

btw these pictures were taken without flash, manual, ISO 200 and 400.

oh and Canon S90 is like 500 euros here in Croatia and that I can't afford. (price in US dollars is price in euros here in Croatia, it sucks big time...)

[Screenclutter]

Even a consumer level dSLR would have some trouble in the above situations. Relatively speaking, I'd say the pictures look fine, unless you wanted to freeze the motion of the people, or the people illuminated.

[jekostas]

The pictures are fine, certainly quite good for the equipment at your disposal. The thing is, even if you got noticeable improvement in your stills from new equipment (and that's a big "if"), you're probably still not going to get significantly better video quality out of a new, consumer-level digital compact camera.

[David Metsky]

If you're happy with the still image quality of your current camera - and I agree the pics you posted are fine - then you're not going to see significant improvement unless you move up in price. Adding more zoom will cut down on the available light. Zooming in on a DJ from a distance will result in very dark photos because your flash won't be able to do much.

Extra LiIon batteries for the smaller cameras aren't overly expensive if you buy 3rd party. They pack more juice than the AAs so you won't need to swap them as often.

How important is HD video with great sound? I'm not sure which model the Ixus 90 is (SD1100?) but if you want more zoom than your current camera you'll have to move beyond that line. Also, they all use LiIon batteries. In fact, there are no pocketable cameras with HD video and AA batteries for sale today except the Pentax Optio E80 (http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/cameraDetail.php?cam=1419) and I don't think that's the camera for you.

So, of the following features which are requirements?
- Pocket sized
- AA batteries
- HD video
- More than 5x zoom
- Good low light and/or strong flash
- Low price

Right now you can't get all of those in a single camera.

[executioner28]

no I need to buy something cause this is really a family camera and I need to get my own.

What's the most important thing for me? I can name two, maybe not HD recording, but at least to be able to record sound in stereo (so that would be two microphones for recording, right?) and better pictures. Couse this A560 doesn't have IS so with 200 pictures taken, maybe 20 are good (not perfect) quality. The ones I posted very among better. Others are blurry probably cause I don't know how to take pictures but I still thing there has been an improvement in technology because A560 is an old camera.

correct me if I'm wrong but how does Canon SX200IS have HD and mono sound recording. Or did I get that wrong?

btw this is the video I took with A560 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvQOKtXG4JY The bass kills the sound.

[jekostas]

correct me if I'm wrong but how does Canon SX200IS have HD and mono sound recording. Or did I get that wrong?


HD recording is a video-specific codec only - it has nothing at all to do with the sound that's recorded as well.

I would look at the Fuji F70EXR before the Canon. The Fuji is a considerably better low-light camera.

[David Metsky]

In low light with moving subjects, IS won't really help much. It may help freeze the background but it doesn't do anything to speed up the shutter speed so all the people are still going to be blurry.

The Panasonic ZS3 has HD video with stereo sound. But it also isn't the greatest in low light and has a weak flash. It's really much better as an outside camera, where it excels. And the HD mode is fairly wonky if you have to edit the files. It's not the camera I would choose for mainly indoors.

None of the other compact ultrazooms that I checked have stereo sound. If you want that you'll have to give up zoom. Actually, looking through the lists not many pocketable cameras have stereo sound.

[executioner28]

really don't know what to say... as I said you gonna need patience with me mainly cause in Croatia we are a bit behind the rest of the world as far as new model of cameras go.

F70EXR isn't available here yet, I sent an email regarding availability and hope to get the answer soon... and ZS3 or T27 is 400euros. :(

what now? I am willing to leave the ultra zoom territory if it get's me better shots in low light conditions and better video recordings (sound is my biggest concern)

[David Metsky]

Compact digital cameras are not very good at recording sound. If you insist on stereo sound you may be out of luck. In your price range, a lot of the cameras we might recommend won't work, so I think you'll need to scale back your expectations a bit more.

Can we drop the HD video requirement as well?

[jekostas]

what now? I am willing to leave the ultra zoom territory if it get's me better shots in low light conditions and better video recordings (sound is my biggest concern)

If sound is your biggest concern, forget trying to get it out of a pocket digital camera, then. Get a used sony minidisc player with line-in recording and a decent output (the newer ones had USB output), and pair it with a reasonable quality microphone. I pretty well guarantee it'll be 10x better than what you could get out of a point and shoot camera.

I know this is probably frustrating for you to hear, but unfortunately, the fact remains that video recording, especially quality sound, just isn't that good on point and shoot cameras - still picture quality always comes first.

[executioner28]

damn, again with downsizing... pif

ok, bare with me because I want to ask and say so much:

1. the Fuji F70EXR is coming in less than a month to my country so maybe I should wait for that one? some magazine said the price should be a bit less than 300 euros. SO that is in my price range.

2. If I have to leave HD video, which I really don't want to, a must have is to be able to zoom while recording. As far as I know if it ain't HD than it's VGA and max is 640x480 @ 30fps?

3. I thought the IS if for image stabilization and would help me with my shaky hands. Cause I think that is the reason I get blurry, grainy photos.

4. I wouldn't want to go to Sony because that means I would have to buy pricey memory stick pro and I already have 4GB SD. But if I have to I'll do that also, just to be happy with my new camera.

5. So AA batteries are out of the question?

6. just a few prices here:

Canon SX200IS - 300 euros
Panasonic DMC-TZ7 - 360 euros
Canon IXUS 110 - 290 euros
Canon ISUX 200 - 330 euros
Canon SX120 - 230 euros


so please suggest something

[David Metsky]

2. If I have to leave HD video, which I really don't want to, a must have is to be able to zoom while recording. As far as I know if it ain't HD than it's VGA and max is 640x480 @ 30fps?
Not many cameras allow you to use optical zoom with video. Especially not the smaller ones, because the mic will pick up the sound of the zoom motor. The Panasonic ZS1/3 is an exception to that.


3. I thought the IS if for image stabilization and would help me with my shaky hands. Cause I think that is the reason I get blurry, grainy photos.
IS works best if your subject isn't moving. It allows you to keep the camera steady for longer than you would be able to without. This is good for shaky hands, or low light with a motionless subject. But the majority of your blur (especially in low light) is because your camera needs to keep the shutter open for 1/30 or 1/20 of a second, and people move in that time. IS won't help that. Grain isn't caused by motion, it's caused by pushing the ISO higher in low light.


5. So AA batteries are out of the question?
If you want the camera to fit in your pocket, your choices are severely limited.



6. just a few prices here:

Canon SX200IS - 300 euros
Panasonic DMC-TZ7 - 360 euros
Canon IXUS 110 - 290 euros
Canon ISUX 200 - 330 euros
Canon SX120 - 230 euros
The SX200 and SX120 are bigger than your current camera. The TZ7 is probably about the same size.

[executioner28]

ok, David, say you are in my place, you have 300-330 euros and you want to buy a camera. You like going to parties and taking pictures there and making some 4-5 minute video clips. What do you buy and why?

[David Metsky]

If I could save enough money I'd get the S90.

If not, I'd choose between the Fuji F200/F70, the Canon SD980, or the Sony WX1. They will all meet your needs as stated.

[executioner28]

I was waiting for your reply the whole day :)

well I think I'll wait week or two if Fuji F70 gets here if not I think I'll go with SD980 (I believe that's IXUS 200IS) cause it's available and has 720p video recording. I wouldn't go with WX1 on a count of it's memory stick pro.

so IXUS 200IS over Panasonic TZ7? cause I think it has stereo microphone.

[David Metsky]

so IXUS 200IS over Panasonic TZ7? cause I think it has stereo microphone.
I've pretty much given up on sound recording from a small digital camera, no matter if it has stereo or mono. Sound recording just isn't a big design goal.

I'd get the SD980, put the CHDK (http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/SD980IS) firmware on it so I could shoot raw, get optical zoom in video, and some other features, and just start shooting.

[executioner28]

ok, David I guess I'll try to find the best price and get it. Then I'll report back here with my findings. :)

thank you very much for your help