Best photo quality in a full auto, point and shoot, compact camera?

[SturmUndDrang]

Chief priorities:

1) top photo quality for the compact format
2) have an extremely good automatic mode; I want great pictures out of the box, with minimal adjustment required
3) excellent image stabilization
4) come from a reputable manufacturer (e.g. build quality, reliability)


I would also like:

a) both wide angle and telephoto capability would be great; the new "super zoom" cameras seem to be great
b) full HD movie mode
c) beautiful high resolution LCD
d) good user interface (buttons, touch screen, etc)
e) scratchproof (e.g. metal) exterior
f) fast (to startup, autofocus, etc)
g) avoid proprietary technology (Sony, looking at you...)
h) compactness
i) ruggedness; waterproofness (be able to use underwater like the Panasonic Lumix DMC-FT1 would be fantastic, tho not with that model's poor image quality...)


Here are some models that I am considering:



top choices:

Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS3
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/panasonic/dmc_zs3-review/

second choice would be
Canon PowerShot SX200 IS
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/canon/powershot_sx200-review/

third choice would be
Casio Exilim EX-H10
http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/casio_ex_h10_review/


other possibilities:

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/panasonic/dmc_lx3-review/


Canon PowerShot SD970 IS Digital ELPH
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/canon/powershot_sd970-review


Sony Cyber-shot DSC-WX1
[new cmos technology appears to be promising, but not yet perfected; this camera seems to ultimately have mediocre photo quality]
http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-cameras/sony-cyber-shot-dsc/4505-6501_7-33763789.html



Thanks in advance for any feedback that you guys can give.

[David Metsky]

There's no single camera with the best photo quality, it depends on too many factors. And if you really want best photo quality in all conditions you'll have to use manual controls. Your top choice has no manual controls, and won't give you great image quality in low light. The SX200 frankly isn't the greatest image quality, I think the Sony H20 is better for the compact ultrazoom with manual controls.

I'd also add the Fuji F70 to your list, drop the SD970, and don't know about the Casio yet. The LX3 is great, but has a very small zoom.

For top image quality you have to drop your ruggedness/waterproof requirements.

[jekostas]

Thanks in advance for any feedback that you guys can give.

If you truly want "the best quality out of a compact camera", you MUST learn how to use some manual controls. There's simply no camera out there smart enough to deal with every situation.

Secondly, superzoom cameras come with some serious photo quality compromises - the large lens in a small body generally means a very small sensor, which means more digital noise, and poorer quality low light capability. If you want a compact superzoom camera, that also means optical compromises as well.

Lastly, what kind of budget do you have? The new Leica M9 digital rangefinder will probably give you the best photo quality you could possibly get out of a compact-ish body (at least smaller than the smallest dSLR and a lot of superzoom cameras), but it costs $10,000 with a lens.

[SturmUndDrang]

There's no single camera with the best photo quality, it depends on too many factors.

True, but some cameras are more equal than others.



And if you really want best photo quality in all conditions you'll have to use manual controls. Your top choice has no manual controls, and won't give you great image quality in low light...I think the Sony H20 is better for the compact ultrazoom with manual controls.

In your judgement, what are the 3 most important manual controls that I should learn how to use?



I'd also add the Fuji F70 to your list, drop the SD970, and don't know about the Casio yet. The LX3 is great, but has a very small zoom.

Thanks--I will research them.



For top image quality you have to drop your ruggedness/waterproof requirements.

I suspected as much. Maybe someday.

[SturmUndDrang]

If you truly want "the best quality out of a compact camera", you MUST learn how to use some manual controls. There's simply no camera out there smart enough to deal with every situation.

As with David Metsky, let me ask you too: in your judgement, what are the 3 most important manual controls that I should learn how to use?




Secondly, superzoom cameras come with some serious photo quality compromises - the large lens in a small body generally means a very small sensor, which means more digital noise, and poorer quality low light capability. If you want a compact superzoom camera, that also means optical compromises as well.

I am sure that that is a generally true statement, altho Keller's review
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/panasonic/dmc_zs3-review/using
found that, apart from a yellowish tinge to night photos (due to not having a maual whilte balance available), it took pretty good night shots; noise levels were certainly low (he claims).



Lastly, what kind of budget do you have? The new Leica M9 digital rangefinder will probably give you the best photo quality you could possibly get out of a compact-ish body (at least smaller than the smallest dSLR and a lot of superzoom cameras), but it costs $10,000 with a lens.

Apologies. I would like to spend less than $500 if possible, altho I could spend a bit more on a perfect camera.

That M9 is beyond my budget! Would love to play with one, however...

[jekostas]

As with David Metsky, let me ask you too: in your judgement, what are the 3 most important manual controls that I should learn how to use?

Numbers one and two are going to be aperture and shutter speed, always. What's most important after those two gets a little bit murky. My personal opinion would be proper metering (figuring out if there's a specific part of the scene that the camera should set the light levels for).





I am sure that that is a generally true statement, altho Keller's review
found that, apart from a yellowish tinge to night photos (due to not having a maual whilte balance available), it took pretty good night shots; noise levels were certainly low (he claims).


There is a BIG difference between "low-light shooting" and "night shots". The night shot used in that review was taken off of a tripod, and used an 8 second shutter speed - in most normal circumstances, neither of those are possible.
That picture also used the lowest ISO (sensitivity) that you could on that camera. To get a reasonable shutter speed handheld, you would have to raise the ISO considerably, which introduces digital noise.



Apologies. I would like to spend less than $500 if possible, altho I could spend a bit more on a perfect camera.

That M9 is beyond my budget! Would love to play with one, however...

The current top picks overall for the current crop of compact cameras are probably the Panasonic LX3, Canon G11, or Fuji F200EXR.

[David Metsky]

Yup, learning to shoot in Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority, and how to meter properly would be my top three as well, but it's important to understand photography overall to make your shots better. Most cameras will do very well in bright light or if you are just taking snapshots with a flash. But in lower light, indoors, or situations with complex lighting you're going to want the ability to make your own choices. You're right, some cameras are better taking shots in difficult light in full auto modes, but you can do better if you know a bit and are willing to work.

Night shooting without a flash is pretty difficult for any compact camera. The three mentioned by jekostas are probably the best of the bunch, although I'd add the Fuji F70 and we'll see about the Sony WX1. There's also the Canon SX1 but it's probably too big for your specs. The pics in the reviews are not good analogs for what you would take out and about with any of htese cameras.

What kind of shooting are you likely to do? IMO, you should decide if you want to use manual controls or not. You should then rank your other desires (wide angle, how much telephoto, HD video) and start comparing models.

[SturmUndDrang]

...The current top picks overall for the current crop of compact cameras are probably the Panasonic LX3, Canon G11, or Fuji F200EXR.

Thanks for all your feedback. When I go to a camera store, hopefully tomorrow, I will look at the LX3 and F200EXR. (I was almost convinced by the Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS3, but now am willing to reconsider.) The G11 looks to be so new, I am not sure if it will be available.

[SturmUndDrang]

...What kind of shooting are you likely to do?

Typically, I take photos mainly when on vacation or at an important get together. Certainly nothing professional at this point.

Because of the vacation emphasis, wherein I will be out on my feet all day, carrying other stuff, but need to have the camera almost instantly available and ready, a good quality fast compact is needed.



IMO, you should decide if you want to use manual controls or not. You should then rank your other desires (wide angle, how much telephoto, HD video) and start comparing models.

Because of the quickness with which I must take my vacation shots--my wife is not gonna be happy with me slowing us down while I futz with controls--I think that it is likely that I will not be doing much manual adjustment at this point. Maybe later, when I can get more serious about photography, but not now. This is why my initial posting emphasized that I want a camera that takes great photos in an intelligent auto mode.

I am torn between wide angle and telephoto--I sometimes need both. That's why that Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS3 is so appealing. But the noise issue with super zooms that you guys cite with compact super zooms has me a tad concerned; I will need to investigate this a bit more.

HD video is nice, altho not a show stopper. Image stabilization even in movie mode (regardless of resolution) is also nice.

[SturmUndDrang]

jekostas: you were keen on the LX3. So what is your take on the just released Canon S90 "LX3 killer":
http://www.1001noisycameras.com/2009/08/canon-powershot-s90-is.html
?

Looks better to me... searching for a good review now (lemme know if you find one).

[David Metsky]

Ooh, forgot about the S90. That should be in the hunt as well. For snapshots, just rely on the flash to get you through and don't worry about manual controls. It's only when you really want to compose a shot that you will worry about those. But you'll be taking snapshots.

You made it sound like you wanted to take fine photography. For these type of shots you really are looking for good low light high ISO performance. The LX3 falls short as an all purpose camera because of the lack of zoom. I think the Fuji F200, the Canon S90 and G11, and the Sony WX1 are the cameras that best meet your needs. Any of them will do a great job and allow you to grow with the camera.

If you decide you need an ultrazoom I like the Fuji F70 or the Sony H20 if you want manual controls; the Panasonic ZS3 if you don't.

[Screenclutter]

As with David Metsky, let me ask you too: in your judgement, what are the 3 most important manual controls that I should learn how to use?

My thoughts:

0) Read the camera manual to find and understand all the location of every camera control. Play with every control. Too many people I have met do not do this.

A guy I met on vacation in France was taking pictures with his Canon G9...at the smallest picture and lowest quality setting. Somehow he changed this setting without knowing, but I was able notice this from a metre away since his G9 was a little too responsive after every picture he took.

Another guy I met last year didn't know how many pictures his memory card could hold.

Etc. Etc.

1) and 2) Aperture and Shutter Speed, as the others state.

3) I'd say White Balance unless your camera choice has can take pictures in RAW format. But RAW format is probably not part of your automation desire in your next camera...

[speaklightly]

Sturm-

The Canon S-90 is still lacking professional reviews. I am surprised with your desire for full automation that you have not looked at the Sony WX-1.

Sarah Joyce

[KCook]

I agree with Sarah, the coming Sony WX1 could be a corker. For smooth, fuss free camera automation Canon, Panasonic, and Sony are hard to beat.

Kelly

[speaklightly]

I received my copy of of the Fuji F-70EXR yesterday (09 Oct) and I have been impressed with the camera's ability to capture fine detail while in the fully automatic mode.

Here is an outdoor shot from yesterday.The image quality is impressive for a $(US)235.00 camera.

Sarah Joyce