great point & shoot or cheap dslr?

[kimba28]

I have 16 month old twin boys and both of my kodak easyshare cameras have broken within the last week. Because of said twins, I don't think I have the time to learn how to properly use a dslr or the back strength to add the weight of it to the diaper bag, but I'm hearing that the speed cannot be missed. Is there a point and shoot that can give me great speed (I know it cannot compare), great quality and maybe shoot hd video so I don't have to lug a camcorder as well? Or am I being too chicken about the dslr? Are there any in my budget? I have been doing a lot of research, but I feel I am going in circles and reading the same reviews over and over again, not remembering, nor making a decision. All advice is appreciated.

Budget - $300 to $500

Size - hate the ultra slim point and shoots- find them awkward and too droppable, but I don't want a monster either

Features

How many megapixels will suffice for you? - at least 6mp

* What optical zoom will you need? Standard = 3x-4x to Ultrazoom = 10x-12x

* How important is “image quality” to you? 7

Do you care for manual controls? not that important

General Usage

* What will you generally use the camera for? capturing 16 month old twins

* Will you be making big prints of your photos or not? rarely larger than 8x10

Will you be shooting a lot of indoor photos or low light photos? yes

Will you be shooting sports and/or action photos? sports = running toddlers

Miscellaneous

Are there particular brands you like or hate? no

Are there particular models you already have in mind? looking at reviews of anasonic Lumix DMC-ZS3, Canon Powershot SX10IS, Canon S90, Sony Cyber-shot DSC-H20

(If applicable) Do you need any of the following special features? I would kike Wide Angle, Image Stabilization, video

[KCook]

If the question is what camera gives the absolute best baby pictures, then the answer is the DSLR. They simply have better performance. But if the question is what is the more practical camera for me, then the point-and-shoots do have their own advantages. And a P&S is not hopeless for baby pics, it just has a lower success rate. So take more shots with the P&S, assume a lot of these will be deleted in editing, still end up with usable shots as well.

Your camera list is a good start. I would be tempted to add the Sony H50 on there.

Kelly Cook

[kimba28]

Thank-you for responding Kelly. I realize that the senior members are probably tired of answering the same question over and over. I think most of us "family photographers" are reluctant to spend for a dslr when we fear that we will probably end up using the automatic settings 80% of the time and are in essence paying for features we will rarely use (side question...are dslrs worth it in terms of photo quality and price, even if you do end up using the automatic settings frequently?)

I really like what I've been reading about the Canon S90, but I am totally without a camera right now, I'm not sure I can wait (thinking Halloween and pumpkin\apple picking). The sony H50 you mentioned also sounds very promising. I somehow missed this one...thank-you for drawing my attention to it.

Would also there be a beginners dslr with video capabilities that you would recommend to someone like me?

thanks again.

kim

[KCook]

...are dslrs worth it in terms of photo quality and price, even if you do end up using the automatic settings frequently... That is a tricky question. One that each of us asks ourselves at some point (expect those that start out with a DSLR, never consider a point-and-shoot).

In my view the DSLR photo quality is a little better, not a huge difference, not enough by itself to justify the price. You will also find many other posts by DSLR owners saying the difference is huge, no comparison. So obviously different people have different references for photo quality.

What does make the DSLR worthwhile, for me, is the nicer control and improved performance. The DSLR camera handles like, well, a camera, not a jewelry size mystery box. And the autofocus is wonderfully quick.

"Automatic settings" can mean a wide range of things. I usually shoot with my DSLR in Program mode, which is a form of automatic operation, not fully manual. All DSLR cameras also have a basic Auto mode, but these have different levels of success with different cameras. For quite a few DSLR models the Auto result will not be as pleasing as you get with a $150 compact. Note I said "pleasing", which is actually a different question from "quality".

My suggestion would be to try a SLR-like ultrazoom such as the Canon SX10, Panny FZ35, or Sony H50. See how that works out for you. Switch up to a DSLR later, if you still want that.

Kelly

[kimba28]

Thanks again, Kelly. Your replies do help me a lot.

kim

[mlhm5]

I'd go for the 6MP Nikon d50 plus a 50mm f/1.8 lens. You can buy a d50 body off Craigslist or Nikonians for $250 or less and the 50mm for $100 or less.

If you want a zoom, I would go with the tack sharp 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 which can be had for $150.

That's $500 for a great camera and two lenses.

The sensor in the d50 is massive compared to sensors in compact point and shoot cameras which means shooting at ISO 800 to 1600 is OK.

DSLRs are not for everyone so as an alternate choice, I'd reccommend the Canon S90 (http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/s90.htm) for $429. Fast f/2.0 lens, wide angle 28-105mm, 3" LCD screen, and the biggest sensor of any compact camera (no comparison to the d50).

[kimba28]

Thanks for the additional recommendations. I appreciate it. I walked into a ritz camera today and got further overwhelmed by the choices. The sales guy was very nice and not really trying to push me in any direction, but he did try to steer me away from anything older than a year.

The canon s90 sounds great...I'm nervous that the release seems to be a tad delayed. I'm hesitant to buy with so few reviews, but it does sound like a powerful little machine.

[KCook]

For shooting video I would prefer a $300 SLR-like camera to the $400+ compact Canon S90. Again, if the "cheap" ultrazoom does not work out, you could try a more expensive camera later.

Kelly

[mlhm5]

Thanks for the additional recommendations. I appreciate it. I walked into a ritz camera today and got further overwhelmed by the choices. The sales guy was very nice and not really trying to push me in any direction, but he did try to steer me away from anything older than a year.

The canon s90 sounds great...I'm nervous that the release seems to be a tad delayed. I'm hesitant to buy with so few reviews, but it does sound like a powerful little machine.

Then buy a used Canon SD880 for ~$200 (http://columbus.craigslist.org/ele/1355029272.html).
f/2.8~5.8 IS (image stabilization), 28-112mm, 3" LCD screen.

Review (http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/compacts/sd880.htm)

[speaklightly]

I think we have to return to Kelly initial statement. For quick shots of small children. The DSLR type camera offers whole lot more in the capability department than any point and shoot. And the D-40n works well in automatic!s

The best buy in DSLR camera right now is the D-40 two lens kit (18-55mm and 55-200mm). I would add the super convenient SB-400 flash and you have a great combination.

I have had my D-40 for over a year now and I can attest that it is light, quick, and capable of excellent photos. The 1/500th flash synch will be a valuable assist with fast moving 16 month old twins.

Being a mother of 8 with 15 grandchildren I take a lot of shots of children.

Sarah Joyce

[speaklightly]

kimba-

If the Nikon D-40 appears to be out of your budget, then please consider the Sony A230 DSLR camera. It has the absolute biggest bang for the buck. I purchased my Sony A-230 for $420.00 and my A-200 for $350.00.

Here is an example photo taken with the Sony A230 at ISO 3200, that no point and shoot camera could pull off.

Sarah Joyce

[jr_rodriguez]

Kimba,

I have to agree with Sarah Joyce. I was in a similar situation 18 months ago, and decided to get the Sony A200. I have not regretted that decision, other than now I want to buy all kinds of things for the camera!
The was no big price difference between the high-end P&S and the A200.
So, I'd say if you can handle a little extra weight, go for an entry-level DSLR. Then again, the Olympus DSLRs are famous for being small and light, especially the E-420.
Please keep us posted on what you decide!

Juan

[kimba28]

There are some affordable dslrs out there, as some have pointed out, and I'd love to get one.

However, I'm beginning to doubt that it will be very portable and convenient for me to carry at all times (which I would really like to do). While reading tons of reviews, I came across a lot of dslr users who were rating point and shoots because they didn't like the hassle of lugging around the dslr and accessories. A friend brought hers over for me to test, and said she wouldn't have carried it if I wasn't interested in looking at it.

I borrowed a small camera to take the kids pumpkin picking, and between carrying them, the heavy diaper bag, the pumpkins, and taking a bouncy wagon ride, I was barely able to whip the small camera out...a dslr would have been impossible.

On the other hand, we're heading into winter and will be inside with poor light for months. Ugh. It's so hard to make this decision and I'm beginning to think that I am reading too many reviews at this point. I wish I had another camera store besides ritz in my area, so I can really try them out and gauge the sizes better.

Again, thanks for your opinions. Keep them coming...they are helping me more now than most of the reviews. I would really like if more parents chimed in to let me know if they truly take their dslrs everywhere, how they manage it, etc.

[speaklightly]

Kimba-

I can surely relate to the balancing act a young Mom has to endure on a daily basis. I did myself years ago. So here is my suggestion: perhaps this is the time for a very portable digicam like the Fuji F-70EXR.

As the twins become older and the diaper bag gets put away, perhaps that is the time to explore a consumer level DSLR camera.

Have a great day.

Sarah Joyce

[Arisandi]

Kimba-

I can surely relate to the balancing act a young Mom has to endure on a daily basis. I did myself years ago. So here is my suggestion: perhaps this is the time for a very portable digicam like the Fuji F-70EXR.

As the twins become older and the diaper bag gets put away, perhaps that is the time to explore a consumer level DSLR camera.

Have a great day.

Sarah Joyce

Agreed with Sarah, Fuji F70EXR will be nice. 10x zoom in a compact form with cool EXR technology. or 'her sister' the 5x zoom the Fuji S200EXR also an interesting choice, although they both not your criteria. they are slim.

[jr_rodriguez]

Kimba,

As a parent, I have to say that to me DSLRs are worth the extra weight. As I mentioned before, I was in a similar situation over 18 months ago. What made me choose the DSLR is:
1. You can't go back and reproduce their childhood. So, I wanted the best image quality my budget would allow.
2. Ten years from now, I won't even remember carrying the extra weight or the extra bag, but I will have the better images to enjoy.

Juan

[speaklightly]

Kimba-

Here is the promised F-70EXR image, as the camera arrived today right on schedule. It is a photo of my husband, Bradley, purposefully taken at ISO 1600 to see how the camera would perform indoors without flash.

[speaklightly]

Kimba-

For comparison sake, here is a photo taken with my Canon XS it used ISO 200 and set F 5.0 at 1/50th of a second.

Sarah Joyce

[speaklightly]

Kimba-

In all fairness to the Fuji F-70EXR, when the ISO setting is reduced, the image quality and sharpness becomes a whole lot better. This photo of my husband, Bradley was taken at ISO 100 in the DR Extended Mode.

Sarah Joyce

[speaklightly]

Here is another from the Fuji F-70EXR in the Extended DR Mode at ISO 100 outdoors in the fully automatic mode.

For a $235.00 camera it captured a lot of fine detail.

Sarah Joyce

[kimba28]

Thank-you Sarah and Juan for your comments and photo samples. Everytime I think I have my mind made up, someone says something to change it.

My husband has told me that the camera can be my 10th anniversary present, so the budget can be increased. I'm now considering maybe the panasonic dmc-gf1. Kinda pricey, but what do you think of that option? Lighter than a dslr, but great photo quality. Also with good video, so I don't have to carry an additional camcorder. Do you think it's too pricey for what it offers? Only thing that concerns me is no IS in the camera and that's it's very new (wasn't really looking for brand new...I think I just found it by browsing the recent reviews).

I'm new to the higher end camera shopping....even with reviews, it's hard to discern what makes some cameras so expensive.

[KCook]

For that size sensor you can avoid the "pricey" issue with an Olympus DSLR.

Kelly

[speaklightly]

Kelly-

Unfortunately, the Olympus Pen is very slow to focus. And if you are speaking about the E-4XX series, or the E-5XX series cameras you just might be behind the curve. The Olympus E-6XX series comes out of the mist somewhat, and the images look pretty darned good.

So, Kelly, it really depends what Olympus era you are discussing. Olympus came out of a grave yard spiral by introducing the E-62X series cameras. Will that keep them going, it is difficult to tell.

Sarah Joyce

[trooplewis]

Bang for the buck, Newegg has a limited-time offer on the E-510 (refurbed) with two lenses including the 70-300, all for under $400. Just the 70-300 by itself usually sells for over $300; with the Oly 4/3 system that is a 140-600mm equivalent lense!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16830111327

I have always had Oly DSLR's, and would not trade the color rendition, accuracy, or awesome jpegs for any canikon in the entry-level price range.

E510 is one of the Sharpest camera available, and has in-body image stabilization, so you do not have to pay for expensive lenses with OIS.

Be prepared, with ANY DSLR there is a pretty good learning curve, it just takes awhile to get used to the camera's capabilities as well as limitations.
Even with a nice DSLR, you can still cut the top of people's head off...

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q109/trooplewis/Ryan.jpg

An Oly jpeg, straight out of the camera, cropped and resized only

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q109/trooplewis/PeacockPortrait.jpg

[reidfm]

Speaklightly (Sarah Joyce), on another forum linked to dpreview which comments that the Fuji F70 has "DSLR-like Effects".
Would somebody care to explain? Thanks www.dpreview.com/news/0907/09072209fujifilmf70exr.asp
Please scroll down to "DSLR-like Effects with Pro-Focus Mode".

[speaklightly]

reid-

For example, under the Pro-Focus and Pro-Low Light, the F-70EXR quickly takes 4 photos in each of those modes, and then automatically merges them together as a single even higher quality image.

The F-70EXR also captures very fine detail very nicely, as you can see from the attached photo.

Have a great weekend.

Sarah Joyce

[speaklightly]

trooplewis-

Thanks very much for the tip on the E-510 two lens kit at NewEgg.

Have a great weekend.

Sarah Joyce