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Rhys
02-02-2005, 03:01 PM
I look at the new format 4:3 and notice two things about it in particular.

The first is that it seems harder to get a level horizon with 4:3 than with 2:3.

The second is that 4:3 seems to fit standard paper sizes a little better than 2:3.

On the whole, I rather like the 4:3 standard - not only because it fits the 4:3 standard for most PC screens but also because the bayonet mount is supposed to be a new standard. I hope that it doesn't flop as badly as Olympus's OM system did. The OM4 TI was one of the best cameras around and had the best glass outside of Leica.

ReF
02-03-2005, 01:44 AM
i guess it's a matter of personal preference. the 4:3 format really bothered me when it came to chopping off part of the picture for 4X6inch prints, though that does fit many paper sizes better. i still prefer the way 3:2 shots look, except when it comes to the rare vertical shot. i guess they're both good. I don't like all the proprietary formats of Olympus cams - i sure don't want to end up with a bunch of useless and expensive junk in the future that doesn't fit on anything. the cost and incompatibility of XD cards alone keep me away from Olympus p&s cams.

Jim Last
02-03-2005, 06:03 AM
the cost and incompatibility of XD cards alone keep me away from Olympus p&s cams.

Not all Olympus P&S are limited to XD Cards!

The C-5060WZ, C-7070WZ & C-8080WZ accept CF Cards as well!

jamison55
02-03-2005, 06:07 AM
There are definitely advantages and disadvantacges to both, but I fear that Olympus' 4:3 pro SLR standard is doomed by the dominance of Canon and Nikon, and the abundance of great lenses for thier 3:2 SLR's. Besides 3:2 is the golden ratio baby!

D70FAN
02-03-2005, 07:58 AM
There are definitely advantages and disadvantacges to both, but I fear that Olympus' 4:3 pro SLR standard is doomed by the dominance of Canon and Nikon, and the abundance of great lenses for thier 3:2 SLR's. Besides 3:2 is the golden ratio baby!

I just had a thought (as rare as that might be).

How hard would it be to have multiple formats in the same camera? Nikon is proving this possible in the D2X by offering 2 crops in one. A high resolution 12MP moderately fast, 1.5X crop, and a, 6MP 8fps, 2X crop in the same camera with framing for both. There is an opportunity here to also offer a 6MP 4:3 as well (if I have calculated this correctly).

Just as I can add a grid on my D70 they could super-impose all 3 crops/formats on the mirror.

Of course I could do this conversion mentally, when shooting, and crop in PS, but I refer back to my opening statement. ;)

jamison55
02-03-2005, 08:43 AM
The Oly 5050 that I recently sold offered both formats. I found it very useful in that I would dial in 3:2 most of the time for the 4x6 vacation prints, and switch on the fly to 4:3 for those that I expected I would blow up to 8x10. I would love to be able to select between the two on a DSLR...even at the expense of a few MP's.

D70FAN
02-03-2005, 09:55 AM
The Oly 5050 that I recently sold offered both formats. I found it very useful in that I would dial in 3:2 most of the time for the 4x6 vacation prints, and switch on the fly to 4:3 for those that I expected I would blow up to 8x10. I would love to be able to select between the two on a DSLR...even at the expense of a few MP's.

Doh! You're right. My Nikon 990 has this setting option as well. Shows how infrequently I use my trusty old 990, since moving to a dSLR.

I think if you just mentally crop out 15% on each side of the 3:2 image you can get the same effect. But you are right, that it would be nice not to have to crop in post processing.

Rhys
02-03-2005, 10:21 AM
Doh! You're right. My Nikon 990 has this setting option as well. Shows how infrequently I use my trusty old 990, since moving to a dSLR.

I think if you just mentally crop out 15% on each side of the 3:2 image you can get the same effect. But you are right, that it would be nice not to have to crop in post processing.

I know I can use 3:2 on my 995. I don't think I can on the 3100 or the S1 IS.

I'd never actually use 3:2 though as it involves cropping the image.

I particularly like the 3:4 ratio as it fits a PC screen without cropping.

D70FAN
02-03-2005, 10:27 AM
I know I can use 3:2 on my 995. I don't think I can on the 3100 or the S1 IS.

I'd never actually use 3:2 though as it involves cropping the image.

I particularly like the 3:4 ratio as it fits a PC screen without cropping.

Olympus is singin' your tune. :)

Rhys
02-03-2005, 11:02 AM
Olympus is singin' your tune. :)

If only Olympus would drop their funky battery in favour of AA...

Olympus lenses are really excellent.

erichlund
02-03-2005, 11:46 AM
There are definitely advantages and disadvantacges to both, but I fear that Olympus' 4:3 pro SLR standard is doomed by the dominance of Canon and Nikon, and the abundance of great lenses for thier 3:2 SLR's. Besides 3:2 is the golden ratio baby!

Perhaps in a purely photographic sense. The actual golden ratio is somewhat more mathematically complex. I'm no mathematician, but I was introduced to the Golden Ratio through one of my other hobbies, woodworking. Here's a link to the math: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GoldenRatio.html

BTW: The actual math for phi comes to approximately 1.618. 3:2 would be 1.5. It's a nit, but think what the Accropolis in Athens would look like if the Greeks had said 1.5s close enough.

Cheers,
Eric

Rhys
02-03-2005, 12:21 PM
Perhaps in a purely photographic sense. The actual golden ratio is somewhat more mathematically complex. I'm no mathematician, but I was introduced to the Golden Ratio through one of my other hobbies, woodworking. Here's a link to the math: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GoldenRatio.html

BTW: The actual math for phi comes to approximately 1.618. 3:2 would be 1.5. It's a nit, but think what the Accropolis in Athens would look like if the Greeks had said 1.5s close enough.

Cheers,
Eric

The human field of vision seems to be 31 x 9.5 which seems to be a ratio of 3.26 +/- although we can focus on just a tiny portion of that.

jamison55
02-03-2005, 01:20 PM
Perhaps in a purely photographic sense. The actual golden ratio is somewhat more mathematically complex. I'm no mathematician, but I was introduced to the Golden Ratio through one of my other hobbies, woodworking. Here's a link to the math: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GoldenRatio.html

BTW: The actual math for phi comes to approximately 1.618. 3:2 would be 1.5. It's a nit, but think what the Accropolis in Athens would look like if the Greeks had said 1.5s close enough.

Cheers,
Eric

Yeah, or the pyramids...compositionally, however, the "golden rectangle" applies quite well to a frame of 35mm film (3:2 ratio)...think the "rule of thirds" Here's an interesting article on the subject: http://fotogenetic.dearingfilm.com/golden_rectangle.html

scalia
02-03-2005, 07:49 PM
There are definitely advantages and disadvantacges to both, but I fear that Olympus' 4:3 pro SLR standard is doomed by the dominance of Canon and Nikon, and the abundance of great lenses for thier 3:2 SLR's. Besides 3:2 is the golden ratio baby!

i don't know about the future, i don't have a crystal ball here. :D

FYI, oly is chasing second position in Australia DSLR market, and E-300 sales is the 2nd position at japan. Oly gonna release 7 new lenses and several dslr body as well this year. Don't forget that Panasonic will release a 4:3 body also. hope the 4:3 dslr not really doomed, at least for the sake of competition and price :)

BTW, 4:3 DSLR can take the old manual OM lenses too. OM lenses are excellent, and theyre cheap now. take alook at this site, pretty interesting

Non-4/3 lenses on E-System cameras (http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/oly-e/any-lens.html)

cheers

jamison55
02-04-2005, 06:20 AM
I have a feeling that the price of OM lenses on EBay is sbout to go up...

Rhys
02-04-2005, 07:09 AM
i don't know about the future, i don't have a crystal ball here. :D

FYI, oly is chasing second position in Australia DSLR market, and E-300 sales is the 2nd position at japan. Oly gonna release 7 new lenses and several dslr body as well this year. Don't forget that Panasonic will release a 4:3 body also. hope the 4:3 dslr not really doomed, at least for the sake of competition and price :)

BTW, 4:3 DSLR can take the old manual OM lenses too. OM lenses are excellent, and theyre cheap now. take alook at this site, pretty interesting

Non-4/3 lenses on E-System cameras (http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/oly-e/any-lens.html)

cheers

But will the 4:3 DSLR allow manual focus with focus confirmation? Will it also work fully with the lenses?

scalia
02-04-2005, 04:48 PM
But will the 4:3 DSLR allow manual focus with focus confirmation? Will it also work fully with the lenses?

the answer is no, it's like working with your old OM camera :) you can only shoot in aperture priority/manual mode. Take a look at Wrotniak's site above, it's pretty comprehensive.


I have a feeling that the price of OM lenses on EBay is sbout to go up...

yep, that's true...

Rhys
02-04-2005, 05:19 PM
the answer is no, it's like working with your old OM camera :) you can only shoot in aperture priority/manual mode. Take a look at Wrotniak's site above, it's pretty comprehensive.


Ok. If it'll work in manual, A/P and S/P modes then the system at least sounds compatible. What about focussing - we need some method of checking focus on a DSLR.

ReF
02-04-2005, 11:06 PM
Not all Olympus P&S are limited to XD Cards!

The C-5060WZ, C-7070WZ & C-8080WZ accept CF Cards as well!

well what i need is medium or compact cam to take along when I can't bring the Rebel with it's chunky lenses so those oly cams you mentioned don't really matter to me. it's good that you pointed that out though.

ReF
02-04-2005, 11:19 PM
Perhaps in a purely photographic sense. The actual golden ratio is somewhat more mathematically complex. I'm no mathematician, but I was introduced to the Golden Ratio through one of my other hobbies, woodworking. Here's a link to the math: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GoldenRatio.html

BTW: The actual math for phi comes to approximately 1.618. 3:2 would be 1.5. It's a nit, but think what the Accropolis in Athens would look like if the Greeks had said 1.5s close enough.

Cheers,
Eric

wow, another woodworker/photographer huh? aren't you glad digital photography isn't nearly as expensive as woodworking? you don't happen to live on the mendocino coast do you?

jeisner
02-04-2005, 11:58 PM
I have a feeling that the price of OM lenses on EBay is sbout to go up...

Yeah it has already started to become noticeable for Pentax lenses on ebay since the *ist DS came out...

Rhys
02-05-2005, 06:33 AM
Yeah it has already started to become noticeable for Pentax lenses on ebay since the *ist DS came out...

Hmm...
Olympus digital takes MF lenses
Pentax digital takes MF lenses
Nikon digital .... possibly.... soon???

erichlund
02-07-2005, 01:28 PM
wow, another woodworker/photographer huh? aren't you glad digital photography isn't nearly as expensive as woodworking? you don't happen to live on the mendocino coast do you?

No, Anaheim. Grew up in the East Bay, but moved around alot in the Air Force. After college, I've lived in Del Rio TX, Altus OK, San Bernardino CA, Hartford, Huntingdon, CAMBS in the UK, Tacoma Wa, Colorado Springs CO, and Anaheim.