The New Fall Canon Line!

[Dark Cobra]

Well for me the return of the Prosumer "S" series line after its four year disappearance is the most welcome news! The S90 is already on order for me from Amazon. I had hoped the S80 would continue but Canon foolishly killed the "S" line four years ago. That was a blunder but they have brought it back and I'm sure it will be to the pleasure of a great many serious photographers wanting a reasonably priced pocket cam that takes really good images as a growing number of people just don't want to carry around a "brick" dSLR and a bag. People want a really good camera with them at all times, rather than a better camera that sits in a drawer at home most of the time.

I'm shocked that it's got a faster lens at the 28mm opening than the new G11 (2.0 vs. 2.8) . . . thats TWICE as much light! That is going to seriously upset prospective G11 purchasers and I can see many opting for the S90 instead as most of the preferred feature sets are in the S90 (same large sensor, full manual controls, same 10mp, both support RAW, etc.) and the S90 is cheaper, has a larger 3" vs 2.8" LCD and easily slips in a pocket. Yes, the G11 has a viewfinder and a flip out LCD but I'll still opt for the S90.

As for the SX20, I'm surprised it's only got a 2.5" 230k LCD and no RAW. The SX120 spec wise seems nearly the same as the current SX110 and still only 2 AA's which will no doubt continue the same slow flash issue that plagued the SX110.

The SD980 with it's 24mm wide end is appealing but the SD940 is a yawner for me as it specs out very similar to a lot of existing cameras.

On a final note . . . I think it's more than sad that Canon once again seems to have snubbed Jeff in not providing "FULL" advanced specs on these cameras. DPReview clearly has the full specs and more information. This "honorable ignorance" treatment of Jeff sadly continues and I want Jeff to know I will support ANYTHING he might want to do in order to "get Canon's attention". This obvious continuing slight of him as a worthy professional reviewer needs to end and only HE can end it. :confused:

[speaklightly]

Dark Cobra-

You have raised some excellent points. Yes, I agree a lot of folks today like to carry an excellent compact digicam with them. My eye was caught by the S-90 as well.

However, there is a puzzle in this current introduction of canon cameras. Canon has elected to go with a 10mp ccd tunned for high ISO settings. Sony with their WX-1 are using their CMOS imager now finely tuned to get high ISO performance.

Don't you have to ask yourself: why didn't Canon improve on their CMOS imager and use it in the S-90? Or, will the Canon SX-1 camera just be a one time only camera.

Fuji has the EXR imager and is attempting to fine tune it with their F-200 EXR and F-70 EXR cameras. The are using the very same merging of multiple images technology that Sony introduced.

I will wait and see, but as of now, I will happily go with the Sony WX-1, even though the S-90 is interesting, but unproven and not yet reviewed. The Canon SX-20 was also a big letdown as well.

Sarah Joyce

[Jeff Keller]

On a final note . . . I think it's more than sad that Canon once again seems to have snubbed Jeff in not providing "FULL" advanced specs on these cameras. DPReview clearly has the full specs and more information. This "honorable ignorance" treatment of Jeff sadly continues and I want Jeff to know I will support ANYTHING he might want to do in order to "get Canon's attention". This obvious continuing slight of him as a worthy professional reviewer needs to end and only HE can end it. :confused:

Actually, this time they snubbed everyone in the USA. DP Review did get stuff in advance (obviously), because Canon Europe isn't as paranoid as Canon USA.

[Dark Cobra]

LOL . . . points well taken Jeff. I just can't figure out Canon USA anymore. Guess I'll stop trying. Anyway, glad to see they didn't just single you out this time. Now they don't want to share anything in advance with any American entity LOL! Guess we'll just live with it. Hmmm? I wonder how they'd feel about seeing their reviews delayed? You know the ones that help sell their stuff in a timely manner . . . food for thought. But then again that would hurt us as the end users. There's got to be a way to get their attention. I'll keep thinking! Jeff, I hope the "S90" gets the first review from you out of the bunch as I believe it will be the most appealing and anticipated camera for sure.

[Dark Cobra]

Dark Cobra-

However, there is a puzzle in this current introduction of canon cameras. Canon has elected to go with a 10mp ccd tunned for high ISO settings. Sony with their WX-1 are using their CMOS imager now finely tuned to get high ISO performance.

Don't you have to ask yourself: why didn't Canon improve on their CMOS imager and use it in the S-90? Or, will the Canon SX-1 camera just be a one time only camera.

Sarah Joyce


Well, no it doesn't really puzzle me. Actually, for years now they've tried extremely hard to do anything BUT provide too many high end camera features into a single pocket cam. Frankly, I'm pleasantly shocked that they finally allowed a single pocket cam to have a bright fast lens (wide end at least), full manual controls, large super bright LCD, RAW & JPEGS, wide angle lens and a host of all the other things.

They've danced around adding some of these things to certain models but never before added "ALL" of them to a single model as so many have been screaming to have for some time now. Adding in a high quality CMOS sensor is something they are just NOT going to do any time soon. I agree with you it would be nice though huh? But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for ALL of Canons best features to get shoved into a single pocket cam. Doing that may not turn Pros from dSLRS but it would definitely keep many others in the pocket cam market.

Like I said, I'm shocked they finally went as far as they have and a lot of people (me and you included I think) just may be quite happy with this package. A CMOS may come down the road in a few years but this is an excellent entry package back to the "S" Prosumer class. Besides, Canon has to leave something out so they have room to grow. It should review well as the "S" series has often reviewed quite nicely and Canon will want their first return to the Prosumer market to be a success so I doubt they'll suddenly crank out a lemon.

[Turn]

I think Canon should just stop the G series. the S series should take over its crown (and I think it has)

the S90 is so beautiful, I want it, I can see myself pulling it out each time and going wow

just waiting for ISO shots now. (and wtf with the lack of HD mode)

[@dam]

SD940: What's the difference between that and the SD960? Just the interface?
SD980: Looks pretty good- this is what they should've released a year ago...except for the damn touch screen. It looks like they won't offere a dive housing. I'm also interested to see how the low-light performance will be
S90: This one was a real shocker. Looks like they were aimnig for the LX3. The more compact, and flush form factor along with a wider focal range is a big improvement over the LX3, but why....the....hell didn't they give it HD video? Even budget cams have this standard, and it's just software...I doubt they'd have to compromise any other performance to have HD. This alone may make me wait ANOTHER generation. The LX3 also has 24mm and a faster f# at the mid to long focal lengths. Man...despite it being a bit bigger and more expensive than the SD980, this would've DEFINITELY been my new camera if it had HD video.

Now...I MIGHT get the 980 if a dive housing is offered, which it probably won't be due to the touch screen. Otherwise, I'll wait another generation...again. This'll be the 3rd or 4th generation I've skipped since I lost my SD800 diving in the Galapagos. At first, no HD video...then mediocre low-light performance...now no dive housing, or a camera with everything I want and more (S90), but with no HD video again. I have a feeling that they're intentionally hobbling their cameras to leave room for an upgrad path & to not compete with their SLRs. They can't do this when their competitors aren't holding back. What the hell, Canon? You need to have features AT LEAST as good as the Panasonic that's been out for a year, especially when it's a no-compromise software feature. Canon should be leading the way- not playing catch-up. If the LX4 is a bit thinner and goes past 60mm, it looks like that'll be my next camera. Canon was so friggin close this time, too. If I go Panny, that'll be my 2nd non-Canon camera in 19 years- since 7th grade!

I'm very curious to see how low-light performance is compared to Fuji EXR, Panasonic, and the new Sony "backlit" sensors. There's some tough competition out there, and Canon's been resting on it's Laurels too long.

[Dark Cobra]

I'm not sure why HD Video didn't show up, although it's not a deal breaker for me and probably won't be for a good many others . . . but it is important to a growing number so I agree with you. Fortunately, that is something that can and has been added in the past via firmware upgrade so let's see. It certainly has a good enough sensor to support it.

As for the LX3, it will definitely be the camera the S90 will be held up to (fair or unfair). Noise has continued to plague the LX series though it's starting to get cleaned up a bit but at the sacrifice of some detail smearing. Canon has always been better in the noise department so I think it will hold up well in review. As for the LX3, the noise issue, the nagging separate lens cap, inability to really slip it in a pocket and most of all the darn lack of availability and outrageous price when you do find one is the deal killer for me. They're asking dSLR prices for that thing and frankly they're insane 'cause it ain't that good! Spec wise the LX3 on paper seemingly tips the scale toward it. However, the critical acid test for me has always been one simple thing . . . IQ. If the S90 can equal or better the LX3 then it's a winner. I'm waiting for Jeff and DPReview to find out!

[@dam]

Looks like the Sony WX1 fits nicely between the SD980 and S90. It has HD video with zoom, a wider zoom range than either (24-120), and a smaller, but higher-sensitivity "backlit" sensor, not to mention being even smaller than the SD980 with most of the features of the S90. It's also only a few bucks more than the SD980, and $80 cheaper than an S90. The only significant things it gives up to the S90 are...

half a stop slower
lower-res screen
probably that awesome eye-popping "canon look" in daylit photos
smaller sensor (although with a greater light-gathering area than most sensors that size)
Uses memory stick
no manual mode

If they daylight pics are good, and Panasonic doesn't come out with something better, this'll probably be my new camera.

[jpmccormac]

It appears the S90 does not have AEB - at least not in any of the specs. I've seen so far. Can anyone confirm this? So much for shooting HDR .... :(
Even the lowly Panasonic ZS cameras have AEB

[Dark Cobra]

Hi jpmccormac!

No the S90 does not have automatic exposure bracketing. No "S" series camera ever has for that matter. However, it does have something totally new and potentially quite better! You see the new Lens Control Ring (LCR) can be configured to just about anything you want including exposure adjustment. Traditional AEB works by "pre-selecting" a given range for your bracketing (ex. 1/3 under, normal & 1/3 over). While it's automatic, you're stuck with THAT range and only THAT range unless you go back into the menu and fumble with a different range parameter.

However, with the configurable Lens Control Ring (LCR) you can designate the ring to control exposure compensation and instantaneously change your bracketing to whatever range you want at the instant of shooting! Example you can expose for normal and then multiple steps up or multiple steps down and in any combination you want . . . all without having to go back into the menu and fumbling with the limiting pre-selected bracketing that AEB provides. Frankly, if you think about it this feature actually gives you even better creativity and flexibility in instantly changing exposure and will be very much welcomed and appreciated by a lot of photographers wanting to bracket exposure instantly AND in the increments THEY want to bracket them on the fly!

Finally, I would hardly term the ZS series of Panny cameras as "lowly" (LOL). The ZS3 for example is a fine camera. It has great lens range. However, it does not have critical and desirable manual controls, the wide end of the lens on the S90 is ridiculously brighter (2.0 vs 3.3 . . . in case you didn't know a 2.0 is 50% brighter than even a 2.8!), the sensor on the S90 is substantially larger than on the ZS3 which will significantly avoid the noise issue that sadly plagues the Pany's, the S90 shoots RAW, it's also smaller and lighter than the ZS3. Frankly, many will feel the S90 compares more honestly with the LX3 rather than the ZS Pany's.

[jpmccormac]

Found this link that says the S90 does have AEB - and also focus bracketing - which I never use.

http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/Digital_Camera/PowerShot/PowerShot_S90/index.asp?specs=1

[Dark Cobra]

Hello Again!

Very interesting indeed. However, this quoted site seems to be the only site (so far at least) that lists AEB as a feature. It will certainly be welcome if true as the Lens Control Ring can then be used for another chosen task such as quick speed or aperture change. This little pocket jewel will certainly have a tremendous amount of flexibility and choices. All I can say is it's about time! So far none of the major review sites lists AEB as a feature and neither does Canon's own web site. I guess we'll just have to wait and see . . . LOL!

[Turn]

I think we should all email Canon screaming for HD movie mode.

The S90 looks so so SO SO good

[Dark Cobra]

There are 24 sample images up over at DPReview. Yes, Canon clearly has given them a production camera. The higher ISO images are amazing especially at 1600. Certainly not perfect or DSLR quality but they're not supposed to be of that quality . . . it's a pocket cam! In terms of high ISO imagery coming from a small compact they are on par with the best we've seen so far from other pocket cams.

Unfortunately, it looks like the day of shooting for these images was somewhat cloudy/overcast. I think with better lighting the images will be even brighter and sharper. Still the F2.0 lens and higher ISO capability genuinely works quite well. No ISO 3200 image is going to rival an ISO 80 image but these are very acceptable images that should make most people surprisingly pleased. Again, it's no DSLR and isn't supposed to be . . . but it is definitely a very useful pocket camera that many PRO's and serious amateurs are going to want to carry!

[Graystar]

It appears the S90 does not have AEB - at least not in any of the specs. I've seen so far. Can anyone confirm this?
The S90 does have an AEB mode. See page 93 in the manual, available from the Canon website.

[Turn]

http://www.dpreview.com/gallery/canong11_preview2/

Dark Cobra you're so right, ISO 3200 looks fantastic!!!!!!!!!