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S3000
05-10-2009, 02:33 AM
I got a Minolta 35-70 F4 lens yesterday but I think I got a problem.

On F4 the shot is very good but if I go smaller it becomes very light. At a minimum of 22 the shot is white. I can go to 5,6 then it is still good but after that it is too light.

Any ideas of what can be wrong or what I do wrong?

Rooz
05-10-2009, 03:56 AM
post some samples with exif.

S3000
05-10-2009, 04:06 AM
Will follow soon.

S3000
05-10-2009, 05:17 AM
Here are some samples. They are all taken at the same time of the day. This is the only lens that is doing this. :(

http://www.dcresource.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=24&pictureid=124
Minolta 35-70 F4
Alpha A300
App: F22
Shutt: 1/80 sec
35 mm
ISO: 200

http://www.dcresource.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=24&pictureid=123
Minolta 35-70 F4
Alpha A300
App: F11
Shutt: 1/320 sec
35 mm
ISO: 200


http://www.dcresource.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=24&pictureid=122

Minolta 35-70 F4
Alpha A300
App: F4
Shutt: 1/2500 sec
35mm
ISO: 200

Elisha
05-10-2009, 05:55 AM
your aperture is stuck.
hold the lens only in your hand and move the aperture spring. see if iris expand and retract trough the lens when you do it!

lukeap69
05-10-2009, 06:36 AM
that is happening also to the 35-70 f/4 of my friend. don't know if this is common to the 35-70 of minolta.

Elisha
05-10-2009, 06:50 AM
it happened to my Beercan. i had to take it apart myself and align the iris actuator to the plastic piece above the aperture blades.

Elisha
05-10-2009, 06:56 AM
here's the guide for disassembly: http://www.pbase.com/pganzel/maxxum_3570_f4_disassembly

this is the picture of the actuator in place: http://www.pbase.com/pganzel/image/98807093

DonSchap
05-10-2009, 07:36 AM
Sounds like you guys are on the right track with this problem. The lens' aperture action would appear to be the culprit. I had issues with my SONY 70-200mm f/2.8 G SSM not responding to the aperture arm of the A700 ... it would not close-down. I had f/2.8 ALL DAY! The new lens went back. The problem you describe almost sounds like it is working bass-ackwards!

The only thing is ... from f/4 ("normal exposure" or 0 Ev) to f/22 (-4 Ev) ... at the same speed and ISO ... the f/22-image would more than likely be black. -4 Ev on anything is kind of a seriously harsh change in exposure.

A similar change in ISO would be like going from ISO-3200 -> ISO-200

or shutter-speed wise ... from 1/30 sec -> 1/500th!

Just screwing around, turning and shooting out of a "screened" window (which diffuses the focus a bit),
w/ the 35-70 f/4 @ f/4 (0 Ev) - Same Shutter speed and ISO for both shots.
46010

and then f/22 (-4 Ev)
46011

:eek: "Where did the light go?"

BTW: You can't shoot this kind of test indoors, with this lens ... as it is effectively black at both apertures. LOL ;) Okay, okay ... I know, adjust for Ev shift ... but still, f/4 indoors? Where's my flash?

This was one of 'Peek's' favorite lens. I wonder what he's been up to? Personally, I recommend upgrading to a real digital lens, like the TAMRON SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR DI LD Aspherical (IF), if this is your range choice. Focus is sharper ... aperture is wider ... focal length wider ... just better choices all around.

TAMRON SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR DI LD Aspherical (IF) @ 0 Ev
46012

S3000
05-10-2009, 08:05 AM
I thought that if it is stuck in the F4 position the at F22 with the 1/80 sec shutter speed the photo would be dark or am I sitting next to the pot now?:confused:

Elisha
05-10-2009, 08:14 AM
at F22 it should be dark if you are using the same shutter speed as if it were at F4. but in your case the iris is staying open so the amount of light remains the same as if it were F4 although your camera thinks it is set to F22 thus over-exposing the image!

Hold just your lens and push the spring actuator at the rear of the lens close to the rear element while looking trough the lens from the front or the back and you will notice the iris stay either just open or close!
it should open or close based on the position of the actuator.
the camera interacts with that spring lever but since the iris actuator is not controlling the iris blades, nothing will happen!

DonSchap
05-10-2009, 08:36 AM
If his aperture is stuck (this is from experience) ... even though it says f/22 on the indicator ... the image would be exposed identically as it would be at full aperture (f/4) ... in other words there should be no change between the images. You should see no change in image exposure between an "indicated f/4" image or the "indicated f/22" image

I think where this is getting screwed up is if you are using the "A" mode on the camera. Use the "M" mode and FIX all settings ... THEN do the test, only changing the Aperture setting.

As you go from f/4 to f/22

Light -> dark

I apologize for the confusion, as I tend to forget some people employ the camera's automatic computational settings over the manual method. When you are troubleshooting ... that can be trouble. Stick with the Manual Mode .. and you will quickly and miore than likely get to the heart of the problem.

Elisha
05-10-2009, 08:40 AM
i had a totally different experience on my Beercan Don.
at F8 it was overexposed by about +2 and at F16 it was washed out.
anyway it was an easy fix on the Beercan but based on the diagram for the 35-70....it looks like a lot more work!

here's one from my Beercan before i fixed it:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v701/elishajesudason/_DSC0896-1.jpg

Focal Length: 210.0mm
Exposure Time: 0.011 s (1/90)
Aperture: f/9.5
ISO Equiv.: 400

DonSchap
05-10-2009, 08:48 AM
I have to agree, the 35-70mm is an amazing compact zoom (basically, the same size as a 50mm f/1.4 PRIME). The beauty of this lens, on the Minolta Maxxum 9000 is that it actually fit beautifully into the preformed, rather snug-fit cow-hide leather case that Miniolta have made for its cameras. I have two of these beauty cases ... and it always amazed me that a telephoto lens was unveiled when I unsnapped and pulled the cover off. Man, those days are gone, eh? I mean real leather ... good lord, the eco-warriors would have your hide!

It should be remembered, though, that it was different time. People did not carry "sling bags" or "backpacks" with them. Slinging a camera on your shoulder was the extent of it for both the photojournalist and the consumer shooter. Even a flash was an 'extra.' Having a shiny, leather case with the golden Minolta logo on the front of it was classy-looking.

46013

Not some beat-up, nasty snag-covered neoprene "bag". :rolleyes:

I kind of wish SONY would update this lens ... and add the digital coatings and some tighter focus tolerances ... but, then it would probably cost $3K, based on the recent SONY pricing. The closest and smallest lens that roughly fits into this description would be the SONY 24-105mm f/3.5-4.5 (http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=11033516). It is still a full-frame lens and offers quite a bit of range. If I didn't necessarily care for what f/2.8 aperture provides, that lens would be my choice.

You know what they say, "Be careful what you wish for ..." :rolleyes:

S3000
05-10-2009, 11:34 AM
I used the "M mode" and all the photos are the same. i used the same shutter speed of 1/60 sec and changed the aperture from 4 to 22 and there was no difference.
I saw on the lens that the aperture is working using the actuator but it returns too slow.
I think I will return the lens

DonSchap
05-10-2009, 03:58 PM
That is probably your best bet, because repair could be difficult on these older lenses.

It will probably cost you at least $60 to have the lens evaluated and sadly, SONY has NO PARTS SUPPORT for much of the legacy glass. Apparently that was sold off to others or simply scrapped during the arranged buy-out in 2005-2006.

I know it's a little pricey, but take a look at that SONY AF 24-105mm f/3.5-4.5 lens. It really may be a good alternative and worth the cost. ;) It's currently on BACK ORDER on the SONY website, it is available in the USED dept of the B&H Video website for $339 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/800626244-USE/Sony_SAL24105_SAL_24105_24_105mm_f_3_5_4_5_D_.html )

laydros
05-10-2009, 04:05 PM
Yes, what happens is the aperture blades get oily, and they don't snap down. The larger aperture number (f/22) actually represents a smaller aperture hole. The camera focuses at the widest (f/4) aperture, then releases the aperture arm down to the smaller aperture. If the blades don't snap down almost instantly, then you are shooting at a wider aperture than the camera has metered for.

The 35-70 is a great lens, very sharp and fast for the size and price it can be found for. Also fills the 50/55-70 gap between crop zoom lenses and telephotos starting at 70mm. However, as Don said, it shows its age. I dealt with a lot of lens flare, and the small minimum focusing distance was tough to work with sometimes.

I like those Minolta leather bags. I bought a lowepro that was designed for a batterygrip-less body and a standard size lens to serve a similar purpose. But you are completely right that the newer bags just aren't as classy. I find most photo bags to be downright dorky looking to be honest.

laydros
05-10-2009, 04:07 PM
That is probably your best bet, because repair could be difficult on these older lenses.

It will probably cost you at least $60 tp have the lens evaluated and sadly, SONY has NO PARTS SUPPORT for much of the legacy glass. Apparently that was sold off to others or simply scrapped during the arranged buy-out in 2005-2006.

I did get this problem fixed on my Minolta 50/1.7 for only $40, and by someone who had been trained by Minolta some years prior. But I doubt you will be so lucky. www.peacecamera.com did it for me. Part of the reason I switched to Canon was so I could shop there, because I liked the place so much.

DonSchap
05-10-2009, 04:22 PM
Jason, I was seriously thinking of pitching all my SONY/Minolta stuff so I could shop with them, too. Then I woke up ... and yes, it was just a nightmare. Whew! We all have our reasons ...

To be honest, unless they fronted me an EOS 1Ds Mk III and the EF 85mm f/1.2L II lens on it ... I wouldn't bother changing. Just too deep and I hate the no IS for PRIMES-idea more than you can imagine.

LOL ... good luck

laydros
05-10-2009, 04:38 PM
Jason, I was seriously thinking of pitching all my SONY/Minolta stuff so I could shop with them, too. Then I woke up ... and yes, it was just a nightmare. Whew! We all have our reasons ...

To be honest, unless they fronted me an EOS 1Ds Mk III and the EF 85mm f/1.2L II lens on it ... I wouldn't bother changing. Just too deep and I hate the no IS for PRIMES-idea more than you can imagine.

LOL ... good luck

Haha, I know, I know.

There were a number of reasons, and they just all added up. The ability to walk in, talk to the guys in a shop, put a lens on to decided. The high ISO on the 40D (which was one of my main reasons at first, and now I think I would have been happy with the A700), the glass availability is still a big deal. And I simply felt like the 40D fit in my hand better than the A700. I held them side by side, and I just liked the 40D better. However, the Sony battery grip is way more functional, which might tip the ergonomics and button layout scales a bit.

I'm yet to miss IS very much. There have been way more times I have been happy to use ISO 800 with no fear than times I wished I had IS.

Given I had a baby and finished school while working full time, so I haven't shot a ton.

Elisha
05-10-2009, 04:48 PM
LOL....Don is old as the dinosaurs so IS is extremely important to him. i think it would be one of the first things i would miss too but i won't be finding out anytime soon!

i have a little gripe about the a700s grip though. the one for the a300 was deep just like the regular handle grip on the camera itself. but the one for the a700 is not as deep. or maybe i should say the grip part does not protrude as much as the on camera grip.
my fingers don't wrap around it all too well :-(
but i still prefer having the grip on anyway....it's sooo purdy with all those buttons on the back!

dr4gon
05-10-2009, 04:51 PM
LOL....Don is old as the dinosaurs so IS is extremely important to him. i think it would be one of the first things i would miss too but i won't be finding out anytime soon!

i have a little gripe about the a700s grip though. the one for the a300 was deep just like the regular handle grip on the camera itself. but the one for the a700 is not as deep. or maybe i should say the grip part does not protrude as much as the on camera grip.
my fingers don't wrap around it all too well :-(
but i still prefer having the grip on anyway....it's sooo purdy with all those buttons on the back!

Make it purdier, add some gold bling!

http://global.ebay.com/Sony_A700_24K_Gold_Metal_Decoration_LCD_Protector/370045554816/item

Elisha
05-10-2009, 04:55 PM
yeah i saw that but i hate anything shiny so unless there is a brushed aluminium version of that or even a wooden trim or carbon fiber, i'm not going anywhere near it.

this coming from a guy that wears a 22k gold and bracelet!

S3000
05-10-2009, 11:18 PM
Thank you very much for all your input. I am sending it back and look for a good allround lens for me .

Rooz
05-10-2009, 11:36 PM
Jason, I was seriously thinking of pitching all my SONY/Minolta stuff so I could shop with them, too. Then I woke up ... and yes, it was just a nightmare. Whew! We all have our reasons ...

To be honest, unless they fronted me an EOS 1Ds Mk III and the EF 85mm f/1.2L II lens on it ... I wouldn't bother changing. Just too deep and I hate the no IS for PRIMES-idea more than you can imagine.

LOL ... good luck

oh yeah...that makes sense. please give me a mkIII and a 85/1.2 for my tamrn and sony a700. lol

DonSchap
05-11-2009, 05:46 AM
Hey ... a deal is a deal, Rooz. Remember, I've already been there ONCE! Twice shy!

Rooz
05-11-2009, 05:57 AM
no worries don, when it comes off, PM me their number. i gotta sack of broken glass...err...sorry....DIAMONDS, i wanna offload, real cheap. lol