Multi-page review feedback thread

[Jeff Keller]

Okay people, the new multi-page review format is up and running (at least for one review (http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/fuji/finepix_f200exr-review/)), so please put your comments and suggestions in this thread. If you find a major bug (like, something on the site is broken) then please e-mail me (mailto:jakeller@pair.com) instead of posting here.

I'm especially interested in hearing what you think about navigating from page-to-page.

Note: You can view a review on a single page by clicking on "Printer friendly version" at the top right.

[faisal]

Just wondering...is there anything different between the Multi-page review and the printer-friendly reviews in terms of content???

[Jeff Keller]

Just wondering...is there anything different between the Multi-page review and the printer-friendly reviews in terms of content???
Nope... just no ads...

[faisal]

Is the printer friendly version the only single page review available??

[Jeff Keller]

Is the printer friendly version the only single page review available??
Not sure I understand your question...

[r3g]

I have mixed feelings about it from the first look. You certainly did a good job but I've grown attached to the single page format, this new format would take some getting used to. Either way the site rocks Jeff.

[bascom]

It makes the reviews more cumbersome to read. I don't see any advantage to it and prefer the single page reviews.

[Jeff Keller]

Don't forget that you can read the review on a single page by using the Printer Friendly Version link!

[faisal]

Don't forget that you can read the review on a single page by using the Printer Friendly Version link!

The above answers my question...I was basically was asking if there was an option to just view the single page version automatically instead of going to the review and then clicking on the printer friendly version....

My personal reaction to multi pages is that if I wanted to read multiple pages, I'd want more content, something like DPReview but shorter. People who will just discover this site won't mind this new format but for the people who've become used to the single page review might find this version unnecessary, especially when the single page one was so user friendly.

[dr4gon]

I have mixed feelings about it from the first look. You certainly did a good job but I've grown attached to the single page format, this new format would take some getting used to. Either way the site rocks Jeff.

I really liked the single page reviews too, very unique from every other camera site out there. I'm assuming you did it to increase ad visibility.

If you are going to pursue multi-page reviews, you need a table of contents to number each page so that viewers can go to specific sections and not have to fumble around the 4+ pages. One thing I really liked regarding the single page review was the ability to "find" (ctrl + f) exactly what I was looking for. :o

[BornBad]

like dr4go said, please don´t just number the different pages,
but also incude what is found on them.

maybe like tomshardwareguide.com does.

example: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-4770,2281.html

another suggestion would be linking to the different camera reviews in the high iso

comparision section. just put a link on the camera names under the crops.

[wutske]

Well, I'm not big fan of this multi page review system, I liked the old one, but if you're going to keep it I have a few remarks:
* Has been said before, but nobody mentioned it like this: instead of only number you could add a dropdown box so people can quickly navigate through a review. It's very compact (saves a lot of space compared to the THG way) yet versatile.
* On the third page, the first image showing the lack of a live histogram isn't centered any, but the text below it still is.
*Another thing, don't isolate the "how does it compare" part. It's a big chunk of text and it's scary if you see it on a single page. Plus, when I read it I usualy scroll back to view some images again... now I have to navigate back (a few times).

[tim11]

I'm not into multi pages either but hey.... not all is lost. It's still there just a click away in "PRINTER FRIENDLY VERSION". Just click this and read in the old format in your good old habit.

[Jeff Keller]

I really liked the single page reviews too, very unique from every other camera site out there. I'm assuming you did it to increase ad visibility.

If you are going to pursue multi-page reviews, you need a table of contents to number each page so that viewers can go to specific sections and not have to fumble around the 4+ pages. One thing I really liked regarding the single page review was the ability to "find" (ctrl + f) exactly what I was looking for. :o


Yes, it was done to increase ad impressions... unfortunately I'm not running a charity here.

If you mouse over the numbers on the "pager", it tells you what is on what page. It will always be the same: intro on page one, look and feel on page 2, using the camera on page 3, and conclusion on page 4.

[GoneTomorrow]

I suppose I can get use to it after trudging through DPReview's umpteen page reviews. However, I do like the single page format. I know it's "old school" to have enormous amounts of content one page, but couldn't there be an option? On some sites there is an option to select multi-page or singe view.

[Durin]

I'm not a fan of the multipage view. I really liked it in one page.

[shahmatt]

Nice new look. A suggestion though..

Would appreciate it if the tab numbers show more description than a 1, 2, 3 and 4.

You can say "1: Introduction, What's in the Box", "2: Look and Feel", "3: Using the Fuji FinePix F200EXR", and "4: How does it Compare". This can be laid out as a vertical list rather than side by side.

Another thing. It would be very cool if your site had a feature to compare ISO's side by side with previously reviewed models. This is likely to occupy page space though which is not desirable. but perhaps you can consider an image popup plugin, for example: http://highslide.com/. Using a thumbnail you can pop up an ISO image for another model, and the images can be dragged about around the page without hassle. I've implemented it for my site and its pretty cool. You can popup other stuff as well using this plugin.

[shahmatt]

Oh! Just saw your comment on the pager's showing description when you mouse-over. I suppose that works. Better if its more explicit though.

[dr4gon]

Yes, it was done to increase ad impressions... unfortunately I'm not running a charity here.

If you mouse over the numbers on the "pager", it tells you what is on what page. It will always be the same: intro on page one, look and feel on page 2, using the camera on page 3, and conclusion on page 4.

Good to know, thanks.

[Fotografer]

I like the new look much better than the old one.
It's much easier to find directly a part of a review by moving from page to page (like in a book),
instead of constantly scrolling within a huge page (like an old piece of parchment).
But It would be much easier to move from page to page
if we had small titles to click-on instead of page numbers,
and if these titles were placed on the bottom of each page as well as on the top.

[Jeff Keller]

Thanks everyone for the feedback, even if I don't like to hear it :)

We will definitely work on that pager, making it more obvious when you mouse over. I may also consider switching to a pull-down menu. I will also look into the feasibility of offering a single page view, in addition to the printer friendly version.

[viztyger]

Jeff, the new multi-page format is a huge improvement, enabling me to find the specific sections of a review that I am most interested in. I like mousing over the numbers of the pages and seeing the titles pop up; that's a lot quicker than delving through pull-down menus. Superb! If I could make one suggestion, that would be to have all the pages of a review (numbers 1-4 in boxes) accessible from the gallery page. At the moment, clicking on the boxed "review" forces me to go back to the beginning of the review (first page), whereas I might want to refer back to some comments you made in the section covering image quality instead.:)

[brentb108]

The single page reviews were THE reason I visited this site over all of the other digital camera review sites. Four pages is managable, some of the other sites have even more and I won't spend the time even visiting those sites anymore. The new multipage format is alright for reading on a computer screen, but I often print the reviews out so I can refer to them when don't have access to a computer (while traveling) or don't want to be in front of my PC. As long as you keep making the Printer Friendly single page version available having the multipage version as default should be alright. No you are not running a charity, but remember (just like any business) you still have to provide what your users want or they will go elsewhere and then it won't matter how many ads you can put on a page as there won't be anybody to read them. Keep up the great work on the reviews.

Brent

[Dark Cobra]

Well I think a general consensus is mounting for the Single Page view and I'd definitely have to add my vote there as well. Jeff, I too understand the need to increase the adds . . . as you said you are not running a charity here and somebody's got to pay the mounting bills. Multiple pages certainly allows for more advertising alright.

I suppose we'll all just get used to it. In the end you've got to do what is best for you Jeff. We'll all be OK :)

[mefistofeles]

It's kind of hard to navigate.

I suggest an always present text menu so we can navigate directly trough the diffrent sections.

Right now there are only numbered pages, it would be better with some text.

DP Review has a nice way to display the different sections of a review.

The site is great Jeff!!... The best down to earth reviews on the web.

[erichlund]

I like it.

[ILoveTifa]

Well, if the increased ad revenue helps you maintain this terrific site a lot longer, then I'd support you all the way Jeff.

But don't you think trying to increase ad impressions while still providing a single page with no ads kind of contradict each other? I mean, given the choice of a ad/no ad versions, I would always choose the no ad versions.

And another thing, since I usually browse from a public place, I usually saved your reviews for later reading at home. It would be more organized if you named your file like this :

01 - Fuji.......
02 - Look & Feel..
03 - Using..
04 - Compare..

Just my 2 cents Jeff. And thanks for the 5dMkII review!

[sheyingshi]

The new design works OK for me. About the only improvement I can think of would be to label the pages more informatively, i.e. instead of 1,2,3,4, something like "Introduction", "Controls", "Photos", "Conclusion", or something like that. Then it would be easier for someone new on the site to go to the page he/she was interested in.

[Dark Cobra]

I like that idea to Jeff.

[Steve Canyon]

Okay people, the new multi-page review format is up and running (at least for one review (http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/fuji/finepix_f200exr-review/)), so please put your comments and suggestions in this thread. If you find a major bug (like, something on the site is broken) then please e-mail me (mailto:jakeller@pair.com) instead of posting here.

I'm especially interested in hearing what you think about navigating from page-to-page.

Note: You can view a review on a single page by clicking on "Printer friendly version" at the top right.

Hi, Jeff,

The new format is fine with me. It'll take some getting used to, but--what doesn't?

[Steve Canyon]

The new format is fine with me. It'll take some getting used to, but--what doesn't?

[JPW2020]

Entirely understand why you have gone multi page-though my preference is the single page review,I can get that by clicking the printer friendly link.Multi page is fine.

I enjoy your reviews for their content, the structure is secondary.Hope it produces some increased revenue for you.

[Ajajong]

Hi Jeff,

The new format looks great to me, but I agree with the members who like to change the 1 2 3 4 into text. Furthermore I should like to have the next page button on the same spot as the 1 2 3 4 and gallery button in stead of the next¨page button above the advertisement block and the 1 2 3 4 gallery buttons under it.

Go on with your good work!

Koop van Setten

[uncleskull]

I was initially opposed to leaving the single page format.

I think you managed to preserve the look and feel of the single reviews we (I) have come to love in the new multi-page format.

Bravo!

[anothersmurf]

I don't understand why the multi-page view would be desirable, but alright, to each their own. Could you, when announcing a new review, provide links to both the multi-page version and the single page version? That way readers can go directly to whichever one they prefer, rather than we single-pagers having to click through a second time to the single page view. Thanks.

Edit: Oh, ok, I see from one of your comments this is all about ad revenue. Fair enough, you've got to make a living. I suppose the only options are more ads or start taking subscriptions a la Sean Reid, and more ads is the lesser of those two evils. But why is splitting the review onto multiple pages necessary if you just want more ads? You could increase revenues without inconveniencing your readers by putting more ads onto the single-page reviews. That way everybody wins.

[Caleb Murdock]

I think the 5-page format looks great, except that I think on the Gallery page you should have the same page numbers as on all the other pages:

1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / Gallery / >

I read your reviews for the technical information I can glean from them, and for the sample photos, but not for your opinion. If you think the Fuji FinePix F200EXR has "very good photo quality", you need a new monitor. I'm guessing that you have your monitor resolution set very high -- try reducing it to 800 x 600 and you'll see how bad those photos are.

[Jeff Keller]

Edit: Oh, ok, I see from one of your comments this is all about ad revenue. Fair enough, you've got to make a living. I suppose the only options are more ads or start taking subscriptions a la Sean Reid, and more ads is the lesser of those two evils. But why is splitting the review onto multiple pages necessary if you just want more ads? You could increase revenues without inconveniencing your readers by putting more ads onto the single-page reviews. That way everybody wins.

How can I put more ads on a single page review? It's not possible. Advertisers want 300 x 250 banners, and this is the best way to go about it.


I think the 5-page format looks great, except that I think on the Gallery page you should have the same page numbers as on all the other pages:

Not possible, unfortunately, due to technical reasons.



If you think the Fuji FinePix F200EXR has "very good photo quality", you need a new monitor. I'm guessing that you have your monitor resolution set very high -- try reducing it to 800 x 600 and you'll see how bad those photos are.

I must be missing something -- how would my monitor resolution affect the quality of the F200EXR's photos?

[Margus]

Hello Jeff,
Nicely done. I was indifferent about the planned change but I like the result. If I want to see the test shots in a review then it's much less to scroll in the new version. Thanks :)

Here come some improvement suggestions:
- replace the numbered links with named links, it's more user friendly
- No need for the next page >> link, as they are all always there anyway
- add all the links to different pages on the gallery page, not just the link to the first page of the review
- could you make separate pages for included software and for the test shots? What do you think about the following collection of pages?

[in the box] [software] [look&feel] [using the camera] [photo tests] [conclusion] [gallery]

Cheers,
Margus

[Caleb Murdock]

I must be missing something -- how would my monitor resolution affect the quality of the F200EXR's photos?

The lower your monitor resolution, the larger the pixels in the images, and the easier it is to see image defects. I keep my screen resolution set to 800 x 600. When I increase that to 1024 x 768, images look slightly sharper because the details of the images are reduced in size. When I increase it more, the images look sharper still. I'm wondering if you might have your screen resolution set very high, thereby masking image defects. It's the only reason I can think of that you would praise the image quality from that camera. Those images are not only soft (as you stated), they have all kinds of strange artifacts in them. Look at the distortions in the aqua color of the FOOD COURT sign in Chinatown. I'm increasingly fed up with reviewers who are satisfied with mediocre image quality -- not just you, but DP Review and all the rest. But this is a conversation for another thread, isn't it?

[Caleb Murdock]

- No need for the next page >> link, as they are all always there anyway

Just my 2 cents: I think you should keep the Next Page >> links. It allows the reader to proceed from one page to the next without having to remember which page he's on.

[Jgaines]

I find the new look to be acceptable. I like the single page format but as said earlier I can use the print preview to see it.

[Jeff Keller]

In case you guys haven't seen the home page:

I've made a few changes to the multi-page review format that debuted earlier this week. By popular demand, the numeric pager has been switched to a pull-down menu. I've also increased the line spacing, and made a few other minor cosmetic improvements.

[Ajajong]

Jeff, this is better!

[faisal]

Looks better somehow..or maybe I'm getting used to it....either way it's fine!!!! :)

Just wondering...any future plan to increase content seeing how multi page reviews can allow you to do so.....

[viztyger]

In case you guys haven't seen the home page:

I've made a few changes to the multi-page review format that debuted earlier this week. By popular demand, the numeric pager has been switched to a pull-down menu. I've also increased the line spacing, and made a few other minor cosmetic improvements.

It looks good, I really like the multi-page format. Too bad you had to change the "numeric pager." That was a pretty innovative feature requiring just one click to select a page of the review. Now, you have to click to get into the pull-down menu, then scroll down and finally click again to make your selection. Not as efficient...

[shahmatt]

LoL. Well there's no pleasing everyone!

Many have voted for the pull-down menu as opposed to numeric pager in this thread!!

[BornBad]

ok, it's 2 klicks now (not counting the mouse moving down a few cm). that's fine.

if you where new here, you would like it better than not knowing what's to be found on the pages (i know there was a mouse-over, but many didn't find it).

i still don't like the title "using the xxx camera". shouldn't it say something about the image quality as well? like "handling and image quality"?

[rdump]

In case you guys haven't seen the home page:

I've made a few changes to the multi-page review format that debuted earlier this week. By popular demand, the numeric pager has been switched to a pull-down menu. I've also increased the line spacing, and made a few other minor cosmetic improvements.

Even though they're far more cumbersome (many more clicks) than a direct link, menus can work as long as they have a 'go there' button next to the menu. That's because menus without 'go there' buttons work only for those whose scripting is compatible with whatever strange scripting you've written into your menus.

It costs nothing to give viewers the workaround for your scripting, so please put a 'go there' button next to all your menus.

That'll help more viewers get to anything beyond the first page of your reviews...

[Caleb Murdock]

I don't like the drop-down page list. It means 2 clicks instead of one. If your reviews were 10 pages, like DP Review, I'd say fine, but a 4-page review doesn't need a drop-down list. The page numbers in the boxes looked really neat.

[Jeff Keller]

Even though they're far more cumbersome (many more clicks) than a direct link, menus can work as long as they have a 'go there' button next to the menu. That's because menus without 'go there' buttons work only for those whose scripting is compatible with whatever strange scripting you've written into your menus.

It costs nothing to give viewers the workaround for your scripting, so please put a 'go there' button next to all your menus.

That'll help more viewers get to anything beyond the first page of your reviews...

What browser are you using that doesn't support the drop-down auto-redirect?

[xavozin]

to be honest, i'm not in favor of this multipage system!!! $&#@!

if we were to vote my vote would definitely go for a 1-page review. and if that has suddenly become so intolerable, then let-it be 2-page, the first page DESCRIPTIVE (includes facts like specs and features), the second ANALYTICAL (for jeff's tests and comments).

a too-many-pages review system will only be beneficial for the advertisers

[bluewatercop]

Looks dead-on good to me.

[rdump]

What browser are you using that doesn't support the drop-down auto-redirect?

Any browser with scripting turned off (by mandatory policy) for nonessential/random/non-work sites. The policy makes sense, particularly for users of MS IE, as scripting is used in most drive-by compromises.

Your menu scripting also breaks to some extent in Firefox on Mac OS 10.4 (I haven't dug into extension debugging, though).

But in the end, the web is all about basic navigation, which works fine with links. Not mandating scripting to enable basic navigation costs nothing, and is all to the good.

Perhaps you could provide simple links to each page in addition to the scripted menu? That'll avoid further frustration at having to navigate a menu.

[rdump]

a too-many-pages review system will only be beneficial for the advertisers

My understanding (OK, assumption) is that's exactly why it's being done. Benefit for advertisers is only the start, of course. The site itself is at least partially supported by advertising impressions.