Why the Canon news hasn't been posted yet (updated)

[Jeff Keller]

Please see:
http://www.dcresource.com/news/newsitem.php?id=3914

Your comments and suggestions are appreciated.

And for the record (since many people are now reading this thread): I have never broken a single embargo, Canon or otherwise. If I sign an NDA, I don't publish a thing until the embargo ends. Canon says they only told a few sites about this product to prevent leak. Ironically, one of the sites they did "trust" (CNET) leaked it hours early.

I do hope this boils down to a screw-up on Canon's part, and is not part of some larger conspiracy (i.e. that we're not trustworthy, or this is payback for something). Don't know why it would be, as I've been accused of being in Canon's pocket more times than I can count.

Read this update on page 10 (http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showpost.php?p=367442&postcount=97) for the latest news

[GaryS]

That sucks Jeff.... I feel your pain, but can do nothing to help.

[Phill D]

Just tell it like it is Jeff. If they treat you like **** just keep telling everyone then maybe Canon will listen in the end. It could just be one of the pitfalls of being an honest and independant guy though.

[Rooz]

ahhh...integrity...loyalty...class...i remember those things from a bygone era in the corporate world. thankfully the administrator of this board has them in spades and typically, the big companies lack them completely. is it any surprise in these times ?

[Screenclutter]

Maybe they only released information to those sites that have some sort of corporate affiliation?

[Thronsen]

Thats pretty appalling. This is without question the first site I go to for information and advice. I wrote them this email (all of which is true btw, wasnt exaggerating a bit):

Hi Canon-

I would just like you to know that the first place I ever go for reviews of cameras and camera equipment is Jeff Kellers Digital Camera Resource site at www.dcresource.com. Since first coming to that site 2 years ago with nothing but a vague desire to buy a cheap P+S, I have bought 2 P+Ss, 2 DSLRs, 3 lenses, and a flash. Total is around $4k. I will almost certainly spend that amount again over the next couple years as I have fallen in love with the hobby, in no small part due to the great advice I get from that site.

I would say DCresources reviews and forums are the most important factor, in many cases the only factor, in what cameras and other equipment I choose to buy.

I hope you supply them with the advance equipment they need to continue writing their great reviews.

Thanks.

[cdifoto]

If that isn't a slap in the ass...err I mean face...I dunno what is.

On the plus side, you didn't miss the announcement of anything cool. :D

[Jeff Keller]

Maybe they only released information to those sites that have some sort of corporate affiliation?
Nope, that's not true. I'm trying to figure out if I "wronged" them in the past or something.

[shahmatt]

Ah! In times like these, I like to drink a hot cup of tea, and work out my great evil plan of world domination:

http://www.darksites.com/souls/horror/evilguide/index.html

On a more serious note. I think everyone should calm down. It may be that Canon's marketing department got new leadership and hasn't got the deal on the best review websites yet. It may be that this was just an oversight on their part (unlikely I know). But I guess they won't respond to angry comments because nobody likes to be told they are wrong (Human psychology). We don't want to make enemies out of them right?

So, polite emails everyone. Go with the 'Its AWESOME to see Canon release this new camera' and then the 'A little disappointing that dcresource did not get the scoop earlier' method.

[ILoveTifa]

Nope, that's not true. I'm trying to figure out if I "wronged" them in the past or something.

It's been Canon's hobby to leak their own information to other sites while embargoing trusted review site like yours. I remember the dpreview team complaining the same thing a few years back.

Put your mind at ease Jeff, it was cause by a big corporation's stupidity, not something you've done.

Why don't you start reviewing other brands more often? Just my 2 cents...

--->got my first 30D, then 450D because of this site!!!<--- :)

[Jeff Keller]

Put your mind at ease Jeff, it was cause by a big corporation's stupidity, not something you've done.

Why don't you start reviewing other brands more often? Just my 2 cents...


Actually, I did push some upcoming Canon reviews further down the list...

[cdifoto]

Hey! You got time to post, you got time to review. Chop chop!


:D

j/k

Don't mind me; I'm wired on coffee.

[Beowulff]

Sent a couple of minutes ago.....



Dear Canon Customer Relations Team,

I'm writing to you to let you know of my disappointment with your decision to exclude Jeff Keller's site Digital Camera Resource Page (DCRP) from your unannounced pre-release of the EOS Rebel T1i, and further, to provide Mr Keller with a review camera. At the same time you saw fit to provide a review camera to several other online camera review sites that have far less traffic, and far less respect amongst avid photographers such as myself.

Mr Keller's site was in fact one of the first camera review sites to be established, and has enjoyed an impeccable reputation over the past decade or more for unbiased, accurate, in-depth, and timely reviews. In fact, DCRP is the first site I have bookmarked amongst a dozen others, and its photography forum is the only one I frequent on a regular basis.

If nothing else, I feel that Canon should offer a personal apology to Mr Keller, including some sort of rationale as to why this regrettable omission occurred. Without sites such as DCRP, with its huge public exposure of photographic products, the (entire) digital camera industry would not be getting what amounts to free publicity for new products - such as the EOS Rebel T1i for example.

I currently use a Canon A 720 IS and I'm more than satisfied with its performance and image quality. It's a truly great camera. However, if I had been unable to read meaningful reviews of this camera - at sites such as DCRP - I may well have not known of its existence and/or performance, and possibly bought one of your competitors' products.

I'll be awaiting further details from Canon as they're provided to Mr Keller, and as he posts them on DCRP for his readership's information.

Kind regards,

Gxxxx Pxxxxxx.
Melbourne Australia

[XSiWorks4Me]

Jeff,

A quick question, have you ever offered to sign an NDA?

Normally with a pre-release and prototype unit evals, the corporation would ask the reviewer to sign a non-disclosure agreement so they can be the first to announce and position their product to the world.

Also, they probably have an EXTREMELY limited supply of prototypes, which, they need the print magazines to review to get out to the Mass Market. (I work for a technology based company, and I know that's how we operate)

Anyways, probably your best bet is to craft a nicely worded email to someone who is relatively high up in Canon Marketing, expressing that you have a desire to try the new stuff pre-release and would be willing to sign an NDA to facilitate this.

Just my 2 cents

[S_p_i_d_e_r]

I have send them an email too.

[Jeff Keller]

Jeff,

A quick question, have you ever offered to sign an NDA?

Normally with a pre-release and prototype unit evals, the corporation would ask the reviewer to sign a non-disclosure agreement so they can be the first to announce and position their product to the world.

Also, they probably have an EXTREMELY limited supply of prototypes, which, they need the print magazines to review to get out to the Mass Market. (I work for a technology based company, and I know that's how we operate)

Anyways, probably your best bet is to craft a nicely worded email to someone who is relatively high up in Canon Marketing, expressing that you have a desire to try the new stuff pre-release and would be willing to sign an NDA to facilitate this.

Just my 2 cents
I have always signed NDAs to get information ahead of time. I was not offered the chance for this camera -- like I said, I had no idea the camera existed until the CNET leak.

Canon still does it with their compact cameras, but not the D-SLRs. Unless you're DPReview, Imaging Resource, CameraLabs, CNET, Gizmodo, or DigitalCameraInfo (I'm sure I'm missing one).

[Dark Cobra]

Jeff this is "John" from Rohnert Park, CA. We just exchanged a couple of private e-mails regarding this issue. I just want to reiterate for the forum that this really sucks. You have been more than kind to Canon products over the years and at one point was even accused of a Canon "bias". Long time members will recall that period.

Like others here have done, I too wrote to Canon this morning and gave them the riot act for their behavior here. You are not some third rate review site and you deserved the same courtesy and notice as the other sites received. The "Engadget" site correctly informed all that CNET prematurely disgraced Canon by releasing the information about the new DSLR ahead of time. Yet there will be no sanctions against CNET because Canon fears them!

I wrote to Phil & Simon over at DPReview to also tell them they should support you as well even though they are competitors. This could happen to them as well even though they are Canon Europe and you are Canon USA. Canon is Canon. You sold a lot of cameras for them over the years and they know it! I personally have sent back my latest Canon which I received in the mail just the other day from Amazon. I will NOT buy their products until they make this right for you. It's all about Pany and Fuji until they do for me. Keep your head up and don't be too discouraged by all this OK?

[XSiWorks4Me]

And the NDA's are designed to prevent exactly what happened. The CNET leak.

There are so many backgrounds mechanics that have to be put in place for a product introduction, it boggles the mind. Technology Companies simply must have the first crack at releasing their products to the mass market so that they can market the product and provide the info that they want to. Then let the forums/discussion boards fly based on official information.

I'm assuming that Canon is working hard to find out where the leak came from (Unless it was intentional) and, whoever broke their NDA agreement just lost their opportunity for any future pre-release info and/or prototype usage

[howi]

Jeff,

I don't post in the Canon forum here much, just Panasonic P&S. However, it doesn't stop me to read your reviews of ALL Canon cameras AND subsequent purchase decision making or referrals in my circle. Make no mistake, I do own a few Canon cameras - both P&S and SLR; both film and digital era. What I like about the innovations, qualities offered by certain Canon products, but I MORE rely on reviewers like you to give me first hand impression and honest reviews. Sure, you've already named a few who's who sites in cyberspace and of course, they're considered "big guns" by Canon. However, yours is unique w/ your perspective: you've cut through many things perhaps considered too technical to some, but yet retain the most important, relevant real-world aspects when coming to write practical reviews in plain English.

So I've sent a polite but firm message to Canon USA PR department as you've urged us to help. I understand Canon USA has all the rights and discretion in supplying their products to whom for reviewing. However, I feel Canon USA hasn't treated DCRP "seriously". Plz check your email box as I've fwd a copy to you as well.

Hopefully soon, Canon USA would offer you more access to their full product portfolios, the "latest & greatest" for reviewing purposes, which ultimately be beneficial to all DCRP readers.

Thank you for your hard work over the decade ;)

[rm19]

If you had no idea about this camera, then neither did I since I come straight to your site for camera news. In fact, this site has driven my last three camera purchases (Fuji S5100, Canon S3 IS, Nikon D40). I hope you don't lose any sleep over this because Canon makes themselves look pretty bad here.

Sadly, this new model looks great for me, but with competition as it is, a snafu like this could easily annoy me enough to go with some other brand. Your site has a lot of fans and it doesn't seem wise of them (whether intentional or not) to completely snub you. I'm with you 100% and Canon PR needs their damage control to step up and issue a public apology. That would be huge for them. Who knows, maybe the guy who usually does this got laid off and the new guy didn't know. Keep your head up!

[Jeff Keller]

Sadly, this new model looks great for me, but with competition as it is, a snafu like this could easily annoy me enough to go with some other brand. Your site has a lot of fans and it doesn't seem wise of them (whether intentional or not) to completely snub you. I'm with you 100% and Canon PR needs their damage control to step up and issue a public apology. That would be huge for them. Who knows, maybe the guy who usually does this got laid off and the new guy didn't know. Keep your head up!

I got a message today asking me to take down the link to the PR e-mail address, which I did, hoping that it will lead somewhere. I would put the likelihood of a public apology at about 10%, as they think they did nothing wrong.

[butterfly0fdoom]

I do hope they stop snubbing you. Every time I'm looking at cameras that on your to-be-reviewed list, I always wait for your reviews before I decide which to purchase. I usually end up choosing Canons based on your word, and I think Canon ought to stop giving you the short end of the stick

[Dark Cobra]

Jeff, I really enjoyed our earlier e-mail exchanges over this mess. Once again you have taken the high road here and pulled the Public Relations link to Canon which many of us were using to voice our concerns about this unfounded snub of you and your site. I hope they respond in kind and realize they have very little to gain in not including you in notifications of new products just as they do others.

I'll say it again, YOU are directly responsible for the sale of thousands of Canon products over the years (if not more) and they damn well know it! Canon has gotten a tad too arrogant here and a polite public apology is clearly in order, but I'm with you that such will most likely NOT be forthcoming. The fact that they don't think they've done anything wrong in flat out snubbing you all of a sudden is clearly reflective of their arrogance.

If they don't do right by you very quickly they probably are NOT going to do so. I really don't understand what they want to "negotiate". Your very public reviews of their products have been most favorable and very honest. If they're looking for you to praise something that hasn't earned it then I'd tell them where to go! Hopefully, the professionals over there will see the light. If they don't within the next week or so, then put that link right back up there and keep this issue right on your front page!

I'm not buying another Canon product until they make this right and I've alerted all the readers on my BLOGS to not do so as well. The word is spreading about this situation. The public support is with you.

[Jeff Keller]

Jeff, I really enjoyed our earlier e-mail exchanges over this mess. Once again you have taken the high road here and pulled the Public Relations link to Canon which many of us were using to voice our concerns about this unfounded snub of you and your site. I hope they respond in kind and realize they have very little to gain in not including you in notifications of new products just as they do others.

I'll say it again, YOU are directly responsible for the sale of thousands of Canon products over the years (if not more) and they damn well know it! Canon has gotten a tad too arrogant here and a polite public apology is clearly in order, but I'm with you that such will most likely NOT be forthcoming. The fact that they don't think they've done anything wrong in flat out snubbing you all of a sudden is clearly reflective of their arrogance.

If they don't do right by you very quickly they probably are NOT going to do so. I really don't understand what they want to "negotiate". Your very public reviews of their products have been most favorable and very honest. If they're looking for you to praise something that hasn't earned it then I'd tell them where to go! Hopefully, the professionals over there will see the light. If they don't within the next week or so, then put that link right back up there and keep this issue right on your front page!

I'm not buying another Canon product until they make this right and I've alerted all the readers on my BLOGS to not do so as well. The word is spreading about this situation. The public support is with you.
Thanks, your support is appreciated.

By the way, if anyone sees this being discussed elsewhere, please post the link in this thread!

[TheObiJuan]

I can't believe this!
I remember back in '01, '02, and '03 when I would print out your reviews of various cameras and compare them and learn so much.
I followed the 20D vs D70 here, and made my choice because of your advice.
I've followed your reviews and found your advice to always be spot on.

Canon have made your job a lot harder by tying your hands behind your back.
As a Canon shooter with 10k in gear purchased over the years, I'm really let down by them.

[howi]

Jeff,

I do not believe Canon USA would owe anyone an "apology" at all. It's their cameras, their discretion. But it just shows how Canon USA doesn't take your hard work seriously.

To be blunt, I've got a feeling they're offering the DSLR portfolios only to blogs/sites deemed as "technical enough". Make no mistake, I don't have any problem w/ DCRP or most reputable blogs/sites around. Just that if Canon USA thinks you're not in that "level", it's down right arrogant and mistreat you w/o any professionalism.

I'm not surprised when Canon USA tells you to remove the email link. I've seen "rules of engagement" like this before w/ big corp PR when things got heated up. On the other hand, we, ALL the DCRP subscribers, need to stay firm BUT be patience & polite w/ Canon USA. They couldn't stop anyone to write or giving feedback. However, giving them "fingers", asking them for an open apology isn't make you, Jeff, any easier in the coming days.

[faisal]

hmm....can some one pm me the email address to canon...

And this is going on my blog too....

I totally agree with all that has been said in your support Jeff...This site is bigger than all the other photography sites cause your reviews are simple and to the point but at the same time provide the people with the right amount of information.....

[Dark Cobra]

What disturbs me is the "WHY" aspect of this mess. Jeff has always been very fair in his reviews which are very professional. In fact, he has heaped a lot of praise on Canon down through the years. Many of his favorite cameras are Canons. It's not like he was unfairly slamming Canon in any way.

There's just no apparent reason why "Jeff" was singled out here for exclusion among the top sites that review cameras. All the review sites are commenting on the megapixel mania that is impacting picture quality and so are all of us. If he had a few negatives about some of your products recently then Canon needs to ask itself if he was wrong in REPORTING what he found -or- were you (Canon) wrong for putting it there to BE found! Be fair about this Canon.

The public depends on such independent sites for honest reviews and comparisons. I get real nervous when I see a mega company like Canon attempt to manipulate, intimidate, bully or otherwise just dismiss and disrespect a long time professional well known reviewer just because they think they're big enough to get away with it!

We may not be able to hurt the mighty Canon, but we can indeed put a little dent in some sales (which is sadly all they apparently care about). But it's more than just sales, it's reputation and Canon you've tarnished your own here.

Canon this is really bad PR for you right now in an already gloomy economy. Jeff has been really good to you guys in reviews over the years. I'm hoping somebody high up with functional Gray matter between their ears catches wind of this and orders a reversal and returns him to most favored status. He's demonstrating good faith and taking the high road and Canon you can now do the same before this spirals too far out of control. Do the right thing and show Jeff some love!

[coenocyte]

Sorry that you were left out of the loop. For those who are curious, here's the rank of various sites:


Dpreview.com has a traffic rank of: 1,371
Imaging-resource.com has a traffic rank of: 15,501
Steves-digicams.com has a traffic rank of: 16,241
Dcresource.com has a traffic rank of: 24,842
Popphoto.com has a traffic rank of: 24,299
Photographyreview.com has a traffic rank of: 28,803
Nikonrumors.com has a traffic rank of: 40,658
Canonrumors.com has a traffic rank of: 78,745

I wonder why canon acted like they did. Only negative thing I've read from the reviews was the comment that the XSI had some focus issues. I'm surprised steves-digicams ranks higher since their reviews are mostly not very scientific to me. On rec for dcresource that I have is to add some ranking system like dpreview does. i.e. give a numerical score for certain features of a camera (image quality, build, etc) to give the audience a better feel of how a camera is.

[Armanius]

First time poster, long time reader.

DCResource.com is without a doubt one of the best digital camera websites. There are two sites that I go to all the time because of the objectivity that I can get: THIS site and Cameralabs.com. I have no idea why Canon snubbed DCResource.com, but it just goes to show that anything can happen with these big corporate types. I haven't bought Canon products for a while now, but this snub of DCResource.com gives me all the more reason not to support Canon.

[Jeff Keller]

Sorry that you were left out of the loop. For those who are curious, here's the rank of various sites:
[snip]


If you don't mind, I'd like to expand your list... sites in bold actually got the camera ahead of time:

Dpreview.com has a traffic rank of: 1,371
Gizmodo has a traffic rank of: 2,114
Imaging-resource.com has a traffic rank of: 15,501
Steves-digicams.com has a traffic rank of: 16,241
DCResource.com has a traffic rank of: 24,842
Popphoto.com has a traffic rank of: 24,299
Photographyblog.com has a traffic rank of: 28,454
Photographyreview.com has a traffic rank of: 28,803
CameraLabs.com has a traffic rank of: 30,798
RobGalbraith.com has a traffic rank of: 62,413
DigitalCameraInfo.com has a traffic rank of: 65,436
Canonrumors.com has a traffic rank of: 78,745

Seem a little fishy to anyone else?

[howi]

Jeff,

No surprise at all: Traffic isn't the only the factor. Canon USA is indeed "profiling" blogs/sites, as they're unlikely taking you seriously.

Anyway, Jeff, you need to set down the negativity from this age-old snub. I'm worry about your health if it gets in your head around & around. Rants here w/ us, leave the baggage here. We're all here for you.

[Dark Cobra]

"Gizmodo" is nothing more than an electronic blog that merely touches the announcement of products of interest to its viewers. I read it daily. As a blog it's ok (there's way better frankly). However, they don't do ANYTHING as detailed as Jeff does. Jeff specializes in photography. Gizmodo does anything and everything electronic no matter how silly, mundane or relevant. How or why in the world Canon got them this camera and ignored Jeff is indeed revealing and fishy. It's more than a slight . . . it's a message.

Canon can "court" all the popular blogs they want for free press but we're not talking about just announcing the camera we're talking about actually HAVING the camera for critical detailed review! Gizmodo getting it and not Jeff is disturbing. If Canon wants the bloggers to have it first then ok. However, when the other professional reviewers (and some way less popular than him) got the camera and Jeff was excluded . . . well you can imagine how he feels.

I think all he's asking for is a little consistency here. Either give it to ALL the pro reviewers equally as they were doing or give it to none of them. However, it is clearly Canon's right to give it to whomever they want. But, Canon is clearly "Cherry Picking" around now and selectively picking and excluding. What are you afraid of all of a sudden Canon? Honest reviews? Why? I see Steve at Steve's Digicams didn't get it either apparently. Maybe Jeff and Steve should stop handling Canon altogether if this is what the childish game is going to be.

[pianoplayer88key]

Personally I'd like to see Canon make it up to Jeff.....

for example...
give him their next top model full-frame dSLR... early enough so that J Keller can have his full comprehensive (at least as much so as his site, dpreview, imaging-resource, etc. combined) review of the camera ready to publish the second Canon is ready to announce the camera publicly. (And preferably early enough so that review is completely written before anyone else outside of Canon even suspects that the camera may even exist.) And of course they'd have an opportunity to read his review before it is released, and possibly make improvements based on criticisms in the review.\

Second... whoever's no lower than 3rd or 4th from top position (owner = top) come in and (besides giving an apology for the T1i incident) request from forum readership what they want to see in their next non-dSLR (whether it be an A650 succcessor, G# series, SX#, whatever) and non-ultracompact (this disqualifies the SD models as well), take the most popular specs and build that camera (and of course we the readers (and posters in said thread) shouldn't expect the impossible, i.e. gazillions of petapixels on a body the size of an atom that can stop any motion in pitch blackness without flash and i could keep going for several pages maybe). For example, I'd ask for a body and lens physical aperture at tele the same size as the SX110, but a 100mm equivalent telephoto (with a 3x to 3.5x zoom or so), and a 2/3" or larger 6 or 8mp sensor (but smaller than 4/3").

[howi]

pianoplayer88key,

Yes, this is what most PR damage control would do.

[XaiLo]

Canon lost one sale.

[Csae]

Im still relatively new here, but the community is amazing around here.

Sadly, i dont think you should let it get to you, Canon has always had a bad PR rep when it comes to the media.

This isn't the only incident and will likely not be the least, i get the impression you aren't doing this site for Canon's sake, so let it go.

I never trust pre-production models and never like to listen to market numbers. I like to wait t'ill the ripples settle and i can actually look through the water to see whats what.

[olehoerning.dk]

Lets hope it´s just a human error from Canon USA side.
Otherwise someone at Canon is not worth their paycheck, by neglecting
a well respected and serious site. The manufactors gets free publicity
every time a review/preview is done, or product news is published.
And such sites as DCRESOURCE spend a considerately more time, effort and
space doing a review than others. wich in turn means more free exposing of products. In a time of economical crisis, it´s just plain stupid for manufactors not to grap every chance of free press coverage.

[SF Lights]

Ah memories. I remember when Canon did this to Dpreview with the 1D mark III two years ago. Ever since then they have been sucking up to Canon and giving horribly biased reviews of it's competitors. The Pentax K-M is a great example of that.

Sorry that Canon didn't give you a camera, makes me almost not want to buy one.

[Ajajong]

Hi Jeff,

I read several reviews of you and as always I have the feeling that your reviews are honest. In the past years I bought twice a camera which I choose after reading your review. I still think both were a good choice.
Now I want to buy a mirror reflex, I think it will become a Nikon, after reading your story my feelings for buying a Canon are becoming lower. I hope more people will do so, a company like Canon reacting on this way they did is not worth being the biggest in the world. What about me they get a "camera crisis".

Jeff please go on with your good written reviews on which a lot of people trust. I enjoy to read them, they are serious with several times some humor in it.

regards and the best

[ILoveTifa]

I read several reviews of you and as always I have the feeling that your reviews are honest. In the past years I bought twice a camera which I choose after reading your review.

Jeff please go on with your good written reviews on which a lot of people trust. I enjoy to read them, they are serious with several times some humor in it.

Same boat here, Ajajong. Bought my 30D and 450D because of this site. Jeff, I support you! Though my post count doesn't show it, I've been around your site since 2005 (yup, still young by some of you senior member's standards), and I always liked your 'personal' touch to your reviews! Not so technical (I know you could do it, but chose not to), and there are humors in your reviews. For example, (I forgot in which review), you mentioned "the plastic tripod mount (yikes! hisss!)." I LOL'ed over that one! :p For me, it's kind of listening to a friend's recommendation. Very easy to understand.

I hope this experience doesn't make your reviews less honest than they were before. Forgive and forget, they say. You are the good guy, they are the bad guys. (580EX2 vs SB800?). :)

And to prove my point that Canon is using corporate power to do whatever they want, check out the fakechuckwestfall blog incident. :D

[frinky77]

Wow, what a disappointing development to say the least. In an increasingly difficult time to make ends meet, and keep this site up and running, to have your arm tied (or even your other arm now) behind your back by not getting the latest information to do reviews and keep your site at the forefront of camera technology is quite a blow.

And canon, for shame. Anybody with a basic knowledge of anything can see the quality in Jeff's reviews. I've been using this site for years to buy my photography products. And you know what, they've been mostly canon products. A Canon G3, S410, S700, S850, G6, and now I just purchased a 40D. All based on positive reviews from Jeff Keller. I've recommended Canon to all my friends. If canon really beleives in quality and producing quality products, then honest reviews like Jeff's are the way to go.

I can't imagine how upsetting this must be for you Jeff. Stunts like this directly affect your bottom line. And pull the PR Link from this site? Come on Canon, you don't even want feedback about this issue from concerned customers any more? What are you doing Canon? What are you doing?

[Dark Cobra]

Jeff if you don't hear back from them by the end of today (Firday) . . . put that link right back up there and double the size of the font and keep it on the front page! That link was hurting them which was why they wanted it removed and now that it's gone YOU are "out of sight and out of mind". It was the only real leverage you had and you need to get it back. It was hurting them and they knew it.

Canon has become a control freak. They not only don't want to provide you with their products anymore (which means they don't want you reviewing them) . . . they apparently also want to now CONTROL what links you put on your own site! Their PR Department link is available for just these reasons and if they don't like hearing feedback then let them close that link worldwide! Jeff don't allow them to dictate to you what you can put on your own site. That link is public knowledge and you should put it right back up there. You were doing honest reviews and that link is for honest feedback from us and they now want neither? So sad, too bad!

They basically screwed you by saying you can't have our products to review AND WE HERE AT CANON are going to tell you what links you can put on your site? I don't think so! They don't get to do that. They don't get to have this both ways. They have a valid public link for feedback (both negative and positive) and now they're trying to get YOU to hide it for them? I don't think so!

[Jeff Keller]

Canon has become a control freak. They not only don't want to provide you with their products anymore (which means they don't want you reviewing them) . . . they apparently also want to now CONTROL what links you put on your own site!

I won't argue with your first point -- they are totally trying to manipulate the media. I should point out, however, that I have no trouble getting review units from them. This is specifically about predisclosure of upcoming products, D-SLRs most notably.

[Armanius]

Any responses from Canon yet? I say, put their PR email up there again! Had a conversation with my old man yesterday, who was interested in getting a 5DII (upgrading from his old clunker Panny L1). Advised him to hold off on that.

[Dark Cobra]

Thanks for the clarification on that point Jeff. As a professional reviewer, getting even the pre-disclosure information is critical to your profession. Without it you cannot stay competitive . . . and Canon knows that. Denying you that puts you at a distinct disadvantage and it's unfair.

[baba-joe]

I´am a reader of your reviews for about ten years now and I really enjoyed it all them time. Even though you are not the only camera site I read your are a important source of information regarding new investments in camera gear.
My experiences with Canon were not so good because of a 10D I bought a few years ago. The camera failed to focus correctly with almost all of my lenses. Even though I could prove the failure Canon was not willing to solve that problem just because most of my lenses were made by Sigma. At that time I bought a used D60 and the front focus problems were history. So it must have been a fault of my camera but neither canon nor my dealer were willing to take that camera back. To all that frustration came another hit because shortly after I bought the 10D for about 1600€ the 20D came out and here in Germany Canon lowered the price of the 10D´s to about 1000€. That made me really upset and I sold all of my Canon stuff. Since then Canon is no option for me anymore.
Why do I tell you all that? Because I really don´t care about the news anymore. To me it is of non importance to read about a new camera a week sooner or later. The review is much more important to me and I don´t mind to wait a little.

Keep up your good work!

Greetings from Germany to California

[Jeff Keller]

Any responses from Canon yet? I say, put their PR email up there again! Had a conversation with my old man yesterday, who was interested in getting a 5DII (upgrading from his old clunker Panny L1). Advised him to hold off on that.
Here's the latest update. Last night they called me and asked to take down the PR e-mail address, which I did. I returned her call, told her that I removed the link, expressed a few of the concerns that were on my mind, and asked her to call me back today (Friday). She did not.

I have also started putting together a presentation that explains why they should be working closely with this website. Hopefully I'll have a chance to send or show it to them.

[S_p_i_d_e_r]

(...) and asked her to call me back today (Friday). She did not.

Typical big corporation arrogance...

I won'tl recommend Canon products to my friends and customers until the whole situation sorts out.

Besides A-series and G-series Canons are not as good as they used to be couple of years ago... And there are other players in the DSLR category to choose from.

[Dark Cobra]

Jeff . . . she was NEVER going to call you back. You're being treated with little more than an honorable ignorance. She wanted your link to their Public Relation's Department removed because people were actually USING the link for its intended purpose . . . honest feedback. They simply couldn't handle the heat.

Prepare all the "presentations" to them you want but they already know who you are, what your site is and why it's important and relevant. They simply don't care. As so many of us have said already, the absolute blatant ARROGANCE of mega companies like these today are angering people all over the globe! Canon also feels like they're simply too big to be touched by any of us and without that link and the story behind it very prominently posted no one else will know and they will have won.

The only real leverage you had was that link to their own PR Department which they managed to get you to hide! I realize you removed it in good faith pending some showing from them of good faith. Where is it? The CANON COWARDS now want a favor from YOU? And that favor is to HIDE their own Public Relation's link from the people so we won't voice our opinion over what they've done? Put it back up and larger than before and when she calls back to have it removed . . . treat her with the same honorable ignorance she's treating you with and keep it up for an extra week . . . while you now think about what YOU want in return for the favor!

[coenocyte]

just google 'canon public relationships'. =P

[Sileny Jizda]

Looks like I need to find a new brand to give my hard earned money to for my equipment. I've come here since 2000 to read reviews that help me make my decisions about what would be good to purchase. I think you royally got hosed in this deal and Canon felt the heat. Personally, I think they need the heat. I do find it hilarious that they ended up getting burned themselves. Perhaps now they will know whom they can really trust.

[SF Lights]

No, don't put the link back up. I understand how confused about their actions and possibly angry you are, but if you do that then you're going right down to their level and spiting them because they are being pompous even though they were entirely wrong. I also would hate to see you stop reviewing Canon cameras because of this, you're the one that got me to buy my XTi, which is the ONLY Canon DSLR that I have ever been happy with.

[Phill D]

Jeff this thread is very supportive but probably not very usefull in persuading Canon to support you better in the future. I think their actions are deplorable and arogant but corporate culture or at least customers perception of it is difficult to change overnight. An apology or at least some show of respect for this site from Canon would at least be a start to putting things right. I suggest you start a poll where people could vote on something like "has the Canon attitude displayed in this thread put you off purchasing Canon products in the future Yes or no". That would be similar to gathering together a petition & allow you to show the strength of support you have without generating lots of wordy posts & possibly damaging the relationship with Canon still further.

[baba-joe]

During the last year I had the impression that almost every D-SLR came to the market before any real review showed up. To me it seems that the major players do not want to spoil their initial sales just because of "bad" reviews. Jeff, take a look at the site www.photozone.de. This guy is reviewing mostly lenses and asking people to send in their equipment for free. This way you can avoid cost and are not depending on the good will or whatsoever of the camera makers. Another advantage would be to review real stuff and not something prepared by the manufacturer. Finally you can do your work almost without the influence of those companies.
The Alexa-rating of this site is 21415 by the way so it can´t be to bad either.

[Dark Cobra]

Jeff in the end you and only you can decide what is best for you and those whom you serve. You've gotten a range of opinions here on exactly what we would all do. Some say put the link back up, some say don't , some want you to copy what other sites are doing and some want some "poll" or something. What is clear is that almost without deviation, everyone agrees with you and is upset with Canon. You don't need some poll for that.

I've been here a long time but rarely post as you know. Just like a lot of original members, probably for the same reason. You and I have exchanged our e-mails with each other on this and we're very much on the same page on nearly everything. Keep in mind the other manufacturers are watching this and so are the other review sites. All waiting to see what you do next. I'm done posting here and we can continue off-line anytime you like. I wish you the best in whatever you decide is best for you.

[polvadis]

I have to admit that I was a little surprised when the new Canon came out and I had not read anything about it here. Now I know why. To me DCResource is synonymous with camera reviews. I have bought 4 cameras based solely on your reviews; 3 point and shoot Canons, and recently my first DSLR by Nikon. I enjoy the style in which the reviews are written and the down to earth no-BS approach. I like the fact that if something's bad, you'll say it, cause there's no sense putting lipstick on a pig...

I really hope Canon will change their ways. Sometime in the future when I get better with my DSLR I'm gonna want to upgrade and guess where I'm gonna read about my next camera?

[belljam]

By the way, if anyone sees this being discussed elsewhere, please post the link in this thread!

Someone at dpreview just started this thread about this Canon BS: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=31439821

This site is one of the most respected sources of photography information around. I'd love to hear what explanation they gave you Jeff!! I hope it's just a matter of some thick-headed newbie hire in their marketing department. (perhaps a former staffer from one of the major camera review sites now works for Canon and is up to some tomfoolery!)

Anyway, Canon owes you and frankly the users of this site an apology!

Keep up the great work Jeff.

[floppyrom]

I posted that :)

What we really must do now is spread this to all the major photograhy sites and on their forums. People must learn of this.

I don't want to sound like a flameware starter but this is just outrageous.

[Jeff Keller]

I posted that :)

What we really must do now is spread this to all the major photograhy sites and on their forums. People must learn of this.

I don't want to sound like a flameware starter but this is just outrageous.
Thanks floppyrom!

[trikster2]

Everytime something like this comes up I can't help but remember that AMAZON.COM, one of the largest camera retailers, owns DPREVIEW.

What's that have to do with anything? I see dpreview getting preferential treatment by a vendor while one of the few decent competitors gets slammed.... One of those things that makes you go "huh"....

[umijin]

Well, I was thinking to delay my purchase of a Nikon D90 and consider the Canon 500D. But Canon's treatment of the DCRP (plus the lack of a firm release date even here in Japan) is giving me more motivation to go Nikon.

And, BTW, I really like your reviews Jeff. As a scientist, I like how you communicate technical stuff without overwhelming your readers. After 10+ years of teaching college science, that's a skill I can appreciate. Although I live in Japan and the model names/numbers may differ, I can't get any better English language review of digicams than yours.

[leek]

I've lost confidence in Canon. This incident may be the last straw for some, but here are just a few of the problems in Canon's quality control and public relations lately:

Dead/hot pixels on the G9 (I bought and returned 3 with the problem, and saw dead pixels on a 4th one in a store).
LCD backlight bleed on many of their point-and-shoots, but no acknowledgment of the problem despite large outcry.
A650 IS recall because LCD bleeds into sensor.
Autofocus problems with 1D Mark III, leading to a recall. There is still lingering doubt about whether it was really fixed.
The EOS 50D error 99 problem.
Recall of many of their point-and-shoots and camcorders because CCD overheating can permanently break electrical connections.
The 5d Mark II black dots problem.
Going after "Fake" Chuck Westfall, leading to the Streisand effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect).
Leaving DCRP out of the Rebel T1i loop.
I sold all my Canon lenses and bodies, and switched to Nikon. Never had any problems since.

[Jeff Keller]

Everytime something like this comes up I can't help but remember that AMAZON.COM, one of the largest camera retailers, owns DPREVIEW.

What's that have to do with anything? I see dpreview getting preferential treatment by a vendor while one of the few decent competitors gets slammed.... One of those things that makes you go "huh"....
To be fair, DPReview has been left out of the loop on several occasions in the last year... they may get preferential treatment by some manufacturers, but not by all. FWIW, I don't think Amazon has anything to do with it.

[luller6]

Dear Jeff,

i am a german reading your articles for years now - you and Dpreview are the best in cam information.

Continue reviewing as usual, you are going to penalize us, the readers and not Canon.
Those guys seem to not care.

Even if your website is now full of Nikon advertisement (as payback i guess) it is interresting to know how the Canon Cams perform.

Please continue the 5DMarkII and not hold it - this is childish.
Canon is a real big Company and not all of them are idiots - the management has definitely changed for bad but their cams are still the best in price/value ratio.

Economic pressure has resulted in that decision makers are now economists only, with a very simple mind, they just use the most simple arithmetics and watch powerpoint presentations and SAP statistics, the good have gone in most every company.

Please be professional and go on as usual - maybe 1 day you will get the chance to satisfy your revenge needs by nature.

[Jeff Keller]

Dear Jeff,

i am a german reading your articles for years now - you and Dpreview are the best in cam information.

Continue reviewing as usual, you are going to penalize us, the readers and not Canon.
Those guys seem to not care.

Even if your website is now full of Nikon advertisement (as payback i guess) it is interresting to know how the Canon Cams perform.

Please continue the 5DMarkII and not hold it - this is childish.
Canon is a real big Company and not all of them are idiots - the management has definitely changed for bad but their cams are still the best in price/value ratio.

Economic pressure has resulted in that decision makers are now economists only, with a very simple mind, they just use the most simple arithmetics and watch powerpoint presentations and SAP statistics, the good have gone in most every company.

Please be professional and go on as usual - maybe 1 day you will get the chance to satisfy your revenge needs by nature.

It is my intent to keep reviewing as usual. As much as I'd love to stop reviewing Canons to make a statement, it's not going to do my business any good. The 5D Mk II review will be postponed, but not for much longer.

And those Nikon and Casio ads were planned way before all this went down.

[dampfnudel]

Canon obviously made a conscious decision to leave you out Jeff. So if they say it was an "accident", don't believe it (I don't think you would). Now if they don't respond to you, it's probably some issue they couldn't really defend in a face to face discussion. In other words, they probably hope you forget about it & move on. Anyway, one reason Canon has become so "controlling" is that the competition is much stronger today than it was even a couple of years ago. They're just yielding their enormous power around because they can't afford to slip up from their perspective.

Years ago Canon was the "go to camera" especially if you wanted to give a family member or friend a solid recommendation, perhaps the same Canon model you owned. Now, a solid recommendation can often involve something from Panasonic & others. Canon still makes good cameras, but the competition is much better than it used to be as well, Panasonic in particular.

[Jeff Keller]

Canon obviously made a conscious decision to leave you out Jeff. So if they say it was an "accident", don't believe it (I don't think you would). Now if they don't respond to you, it's probably some issue they couldn't really defend in a face to face discussion. In other words, they probably hope you forget about it & move on.

While I'm still not sold on the malicious intent thing, I do agree that they're hoping I'll just forget about it. Problem is, after I've sent my presentations and bugged people, there's not much else I can do.

[raven15]

I think the best thing to do from this point is finish your existing arguments and move along as if nothing happened, for the moment. Neither you nor the readers of the site will benefit from a protracted fight, basically it would be a lose-lose-lose situation (Canon loses too). Now if Canon continues to snub you, then action is needed of course. But, one of my favorite expressions, of which I was just reminded on another site, is "never attribute to malice anything that can be blamed on stupidity or incompetence" (or something along those lines).

But, just in case it was malice, I promise never to buy another Canon camera :D;).

[KBeat]

Long time reader of the site, first time I've felt the need to post a comment...

Jeff, holding the 5D Mark II review, one of the most anticipated DSLRs in a long time, does not punish Canon. It punishes your readers. Perhaps there is a photographer out there who simply won't make a purchase of a camera until he/she reads your review, but there are many places to get reviews. Canon doesn't suffer as a result of such a decision, the photographer who relies on your reviews does. Never forget who you write for and who relies on you the most. It isn't Canon, Nikon, and company.

Reading through the posts, some of you (readers) have suggested that Jeff deserved better treatment from Canon because he's written favorable reviews of their products in the past. Do you realize that any such suggestion, good reviews = good treatment from company, will basically end any credibility Jeff has a journalist? In fact, most companies who do product reviews have a hard, impenetrable wall between the writers doing the reviews and the PR staff handling the company contact, specifically so positive or negative treatment from a company's PR arm won't affect the journalistic integrity of the reviews.

Jeff, I enjoy your site and your reviews. I am also a fan of Canon cameras and have a large investment in lenses. I'm not going to drop Canon just because they screwed up in giving you the advance release information on this camera. Should they have included you? Absolutely, and I hope they'll remedy the mistake in the future. However, if you start holding reviews of cameras many of us are highly interested in, or allow your negative feelings regarding their PR department to cloud your review of the actual product, then I will stop using your site as a resource.

PR and marketing should never, ever be mixed with reviews of products. The product should stand on its own, entirely separate from any relationship, or lack thereof, you may have with the company who makes the product. In fact, for this reason, this entire incident should have been kept between you and Canon as to not even give the hint of impropriety.

That's my 2 cents. I hope you continue to review Canon cameras promptly and with the same level of thoroughness and fairness you've always shown. I'm sure, once cooler heads prevail, that you will do just that.

[dotbalm]

Reading through the posts, some of you (readers) have suggested that Jeff deserved better treatment from Canon because he's written favorable reviews of their products in the past. Do you realize that any such suggestion, good reviews = good treatment from company, will basically end any credibility Jeff has a journalist?

Correct. I did not like seeing that and don't think it's true. Fair reviews = fair treatment.



Jeff, I enjoy your site and your reviews. I am also a fan of Canon cameras and have a large investment in lenses. I'm not going to drop Canon just because they screwed up in giving you the advance release information on this camera.

Once you're invested in a system, you're less likely to switch so - of course - you're not going to drop them. New bodies come along, and existing customers provide incremental revenue when they replace one body with another like the 5DmkII, and Canon gets to preserve market share. This isn't to say the fight isn't fierce and they can sit back, though it appears they do just that.

But I digress...

[JPW2020]

Jeff,there is no doubt in my mind that the treatment you have received from Canon is shabby,and as expressed earlier in this thread it is difficult to see it as anything other than a conscious decision on Canon's part.

What I still find difficult to understand is why.If nothing else you are due an explanation either of this particular incident or policy generally and how it applies to you,so you know where you stand and I hope it will be forthcoming.

I also hope that the support you have received in this forum has given you some comfort.

However I do agree it is now time to dust yourself down and move on.I have suspect Canon have got the message and I am not sure if threats to boycott Canon do anyone any favours albeit they are well meant.

Keep up the excellent and entertaining work,dont let the shockwaves from this apparant snub get out of control.

[dampfnudel]

While I'm still not sold on the malicious intent thing, I do agree that they're hoping I'll just forget about it. Problem is, after I've sent my presentations and bugged people, there's not much else I can do.

Well, I applaud your diplomatic approach. Perhaps a face to face discussion with a Canon rep would still be beneficial to avoid this "misunderstanding" in the future. Then again, you don't want to "bug" them too much so maybe you should just wait & see if it happens again. As important as your reviews are to countless people (including me), there are Canon cameras sold to countless people who don't know that your site even exists, mostly in the non-english speaking world. I hope that didn't deflate your ego too much.:)

Just for disclosure, I own a Panasonic TZ3 which I purchased a couple of weeks after its April 2007 release in North America. I couldn't wait for your review which you took a while to post after the release. At the time, it seemed to me like new Canon models had a priority in your review order over new camera models from Panasonic & others. That's why I was so surprised that Canon left you out of the loop with a camera that's destined to become one of their most popular models. I was relieved when I finally read your review in which you gave the TZ3 a good recommendation.

I'm thinking about upgrading to the Panasonic ZS3 (TZ7), mainly because of the 720p AVCHD video feature and I'm happy to see that review will posted sometime today, a few weeks before the official NA release.

[Jeff Keller]

I sent off my presentation to three folks in Canon's PR department, and also to one of my technical contacts who has known me for a long time. Hopefully this will lead to something positive. If I don't hear back from anyone, I'll work my way further up the totem pole until I do.

Jeff

[timmciglobal]

This is really a sad situation on the part of canon.

I think your reviews jeff are always aimed at a different crowd then those of dpreview and other sites. I'd say you hit the target market of "mid level" consumer who is most likely to buy an XXXD line the most.

If canon is listening this is a very poor choice on the PR departments fault and the correct action here is to issue a formal appology so that when your P&S crowd who frequent here look for a first time dSLR they are not looking at a canon who says in effect this site can't be trusted.

Tim

And in the interest of disclosure I'm a long time canon camera user who credits this site as one of the reasons I've purchased many bodies, lenses, flashes and accessories from canon.

[Dark Cobra]

Tim thanks for the above very good comments. I've been around here for a long time myself and frankly I'm really disappointed in some of the comments posted here from others that pretty much make it clear the only real thing they care about is getting THEIR reviews. They basically tell Jeff to just suck it up and deal with it and continue to give THEM what THEY want even though they temper it with claims of support for him. Yeah right.

I think some just don't realize the work Jeff has to put into this as a single person operation and what it actually means to have Canon dismiss him after all these years as a relevant entity (although they still want him to review their stuff). I think this is particularly SMALL of Canon to suddenly treat him as second rate entity but want him to continue to publish reviews for them . . . reviews which they know have largely been good and in ALL cases honest.

I know what I'd tell those Canon people but thank goodness Jeff is more level headed than me and is willing to continue to work with such people. I hope he does finally connect with somebody with functional Gray matter between their ears who has the authority to reverse what they've done. Jeff I'll support you whatever you do. Some have childishly threatened to leave this site if you don't suck it up and accept it. I, and I think other loyal members (original or new) will stick with you with or without Canon reviews. The choice is yours. Just let us know and you've got our full support.

[Beowulff]

Well, it's a week now since I emailed Canon (see my previous post this thread) and I haven't received any confirmation or acknowledgment from their customer service team — not even a 'bot-generated' response.

As the owner of a Canon camera and two Canon printers, I can only assume several things:



Canon literally don't care about their existing customers.
Canon aren't concerned about dissuading potential customers with the visibly poor treatment of their current customer base.
Canon assume that they're "big enough" to weather the negative publicity storm thus generated.
Canon are not actively seeking my future custom.
With Canon's cavalier attitude to customers, can I expect the same offhand attitude to permeate their entire business model.
If Canon's company philosophy is purely dollar-driven — at the expense of consumer satisfaction — why then should I buy another Canon product.



Has anybody else here who emailed Canon re this issue received any response I wonder.

Cheers :)

[Dark Cobra]

WoW!!! Thank you so much Beowulff for this post! You capsulized this mess very well. I too contacted Canon directly a week ago and have heard ZERO! I doubt anyone else has either. At this point, I don't expect to hear anything either. I think it is precisely what you said above. They don't care and that's the bottom line. They think they can do without us and apparently don't even value Jeff as they once did. Though they still want to "use" him on their terms. I know what I'd be telling them but this is Jeff's call.

We are seeing an arrogance in large mega companies lately all over the globe and people world wide are sick of it. Canon is no exception. Canon is a company whose ego seems to have gotten too big. Their treatment of people is in the toilet right now. Many end-users have reported being treated with an honorable ignorance by Canon. Some have managed to get results, but far too many have gotten zip.

Their products in the last year have been anything but exciting. They seem to be resting on past glory and name only and this is all becoming unacceptable. I sent back the Canon SX110 I just got over what they did to Jeff and my next camera will probably be the Pany TZ7 not because of what they did to Jeff but because their SX200 isn't as good as the Pany TZ7!

[Jeff Keller]

So last night I sent them my presentation and I had e-mails waiting for me this morning. She thanked me for the information and wants to talk on the phone early next week about site demographics. Guess I'd better do a new survey!

Anyhow, this sounds like progress to me... I guess only time will tell if it does any good.

[XSiWorks4Me]

Long time reader of the site, first time I've felt the need to post a comment...

Jeff, holding the 5D Mark II review, one of the most anticipated DSLRs in a long time, does not punish Canon. It punishes your readers. Perhaps there is a photographer out there who simply won't make a purchase of a camera until he/she reads your review, but there are many places to get reviews. Canon doesn't suffer as a result of such a decision, the photographer who relies on your reviews does. Never forget who you write for and who relies on you the most. It isn't Canon, Nikon, and company.

Reading through the posts, some of you (readers) have suggested that Jeff deserved better treatment from Canon because he's written favorable reviews of their products in the past. Do you realize that any such suggestion, good reviews = good treatment from company, will basically end any credibility Jeff has a journalist? In fact, most companies who do product reviews have a hard, impenetrable wall between the writers doing the reviews and the PR staff handling the company contact, specifically so positive or negative treatment from a company's PR arm won't affect the journalistic integrity of the reviews.

Jeff, I enjoy your site and your reviews. I am also a fan of Canon cameras and have a large investment in lenses. I'm not going to drop Canon just because they screwed up in giving you the advance release information on this camera. Should they have included you? Absolutely, and I hope they'll remedy the mistake in the future. However, if you start holding reviews of cameras many of us are highly interested in, or allow your negative feelings regarding their PR department to cloud your review of the actual product, then I will stop using your site as a resource.

PR and marketing should never, ever be mixed with reviews of products. The product should stand on its own, entirely separate from any relationship, or lack thereof, you may have with the company who makes the product. In fact, for this reason, this entire incident should have been kept between you and Canon as to not even give the hint of impropriety.

That's my 2 cents. I hope you continue to review Canon cameras promptly and with the same level of thoroughness and fairness you've always shown. I'm sure, once cooler heads prevail, that you will do just that.

X 1,000,000

I found this forum to be one of the most level-headed information rich internet forums I have EVER visited and/or been a part of.

I think we can all agree that Canon dropped the ball here.

But when you consider that as a technology based company they would have a very limited number of prototypes to send out for pre-release reviews. Also, Keep in mind that we are looking at a worldwide picture here too.

I am sure that there are UK, Germany, Holland, France, China, Japan, Canada, Spain, Italy the list goes on and on and on that each have their own forums and publications that all are jockeying for a chance to break a story and get a pre-release piece of hardware to educate their readers.

And there may have only been between 20-30 prototypes to distribute worldwide. Also add to this the current economic state in the world right now. The USA is probably in the worst shape it has been for a long time, and Canon needs to recoup their R&D and Development costs by getting the industry buzz out to the healthiest economies and area where the greatest chance for sales. Which the US right now is not.

It's a very delicate balancing act. The worldwide company I work for can't even get our branch Prototypes as fast as we may want them. But what do we do? We wait and make do with what we have. And once we get our hands on them, we go gung ho!

Cameras for the masses are simply put, a luxury item bought with disposable income. The Rebel series is a prosumer camera which costs a heck of a lot more that a simple point and shoot. So, in todays economic climate the balancing act gets even more delicate.

I may be totally wrong on this, but I am willing to bet that the thought train at Canon Japan Marketing goes like this?

"To get the greatest sales out of our new hardware, do we send the usual 10 protos to publications and sites in the US, knowing that even with your best efforts, sales could be less than brisk? Or do you rethink your effort and get more protos to places that although haven't historically moved the sheer volume of product that the US has, have a real chance of actually outselling the US per-capita for 2009 and perhaps even into the 2nd Quarter of 2010."

Then the folks at Canon US, have an even different challenge as they field dozens if not hundreds of requests for pre-release information. And the Marketing department have to analyze past results and past reviews in depth to decide who's getting what. Maybe Jeff (in their view) has had an inordinate amount of pre-release in the past, and they choose to maybe give someone else a crack at it this time.

Trust me Jeff. It's nothing personal. It's a numbers game and by making a big deal out of it, your chances of being even considered for future pre-release reviews given what has been put into this thread been completely jeopardized.

[Dark Cobra]

Well it indeed is a positive sign that she "finally" called you back and now wants to establish a dialogue with you on the issue. If you would have taken the advice of "some" and kept your mouth shut and never started this thread and just sat with your face slapped and accepted it as some corporate "numbers game" then there would be no forthcoming dialogue. Instead, you owed your readers an explanation, you gave it and you allowed them to voice their feelings. Good for you Jeff.

Canon calling you back and wanting to resolve this is PROOF that you have indeed followed a good path in everything you've done so far INCLUDING the starting of this thread contrary to the few who view this as some kind of blunder on your part. Somebody just said you "made a big deal about this". Sure you did! This is your livelihood . . . not theirs. The thread you started demonstrated the level of support you have and the level of concern that others have about a number of Canon's directions lately and Canon needed to see and hear both.

We will all continue to wish you well as the dialogue now continues. Let's all wait and see and give Canon a fair chance now to make this right. This issue spread to other sites and you got a lot of positive support over at DPReview as well. You played this correct Jeff. Let's all think positive and I'm sure this will come out alright.

[luller6]

Wow - this is going to get now a real political issue, good to see some light at the end of the tunnel.
No light is to see for the review of the 5D Mark II - which is still tagged
"on hold" :confused:
May we go on with the technical aspects now ?
This is such a good chance for you Jeff - the video mode lacks of a manual aperture setting which makes lots of people angry :) including me.
Today in bright sunshine the automatic switched to ISO 1000 and aperture 22 whuu ??? - real nonsense what they have done.
On the Image quality there is not much exept the JPG format which is allways (not completely to switch off) denoised / smeared in detail compared to the RAW.
Automatic exposure is working no good in high contrast environment, even if switched to "Spot" measurement, the target subject is hard to get in normal brightness.
But i really love this camera.

[Beowulff]

[major snip] It's a numbers game and by making a big deal out of it, your chances of being even considered for future pre-release reviews given what has been put into this thread have been completely jeopardized.

Sorry Jay, but with all due respect, I have to disagree with this. I think you're really over-dramatising your concerns here (from the viewpoint of Jeff's credibility with Canon USA).

I'm not sure (obviously) how au fait you are with the photographic industry — as represented from the perspective of review sites such as this — but over a decade Jeff has built up one of the most industry-respected, and consumer-trusted review sites there is out there — worldwide. And it's undoubtedly taken him a tonne of down 'n' dirty work and personal effort to do so. So he's certainly not gonna unwittingly "jeopardise" his site's survival — and his own commercial future for that matter — by overreacting or crying 'foul' imprudently (as you seem to think he, and us members, have).

In short, I think you've possibly underestimated the penetrative power of a handful of 'professional' digital camera review sites (such as this) into the buying public's mind-set. And for this reason alone, the big camera manufacturers will "look after" the major players in the review business. Loads of free advertising, brand awareness, upgrading, cross-selling, impulse buying... whatever. It's obviously worth the industry's time and money to provide loaners for review, so I'm guessing that this is nothing more than a hiccup.

Cheers :)

[cpaussie]

Jeff has built up a top review site. This is the main site I go to, to read what's new. I hope they manage to work it out, and to think their philosophy is "Living and working together for the common good."

[Jeff Keller]

Then the folks at Canon US, have an even different challenge as they field dozens if not hundreds of requests for pre-release information. And the Marketing department have to analyze past results and past reviews in depth to decide who's getting what. Maybe Jeff (in their view) has had an inordinate amount of pre-release in the past, and they choose to maybe give someone else a crack at it this time.

Trust me Jeff. It's nothing personal. It's a numbers game and by making a big deal out of it, your chances of being even considered for future pre-release reviews given what has been put into this thread been completely jeopardized.

Well, I've never had Canon prerelease stuff. And if they have a limited number of cameras, why give it to sites that get 1/3 of our traffic? My guess is that they had no idea, which is why I'm working on educating them :)

[Thronsen]

This is without question my most trusted site for reviews.

[saabin]

Jeff, will you request a T1i prototype for a preview? the camera release is still weeks away and we would beneft from your preview. Like most serious buyers, I would only finalize the decision to buy based on multiple reviews including yours. So, for me at least, there is no harm done with missing out on the "original" prototype preview from March. Thanks and keep up the good work.

[faisal]

I just handled a 500D yesterday.....so I'm guessing Canon was very keen to put out the camera out in public view faster than ever especially here in the middle east where the DSLR market from what I see is booming......we had three rebel cameras on display...quite odd to be honest....

[Jeff Keller]

Jeff, will you request a T1i prototype for a preview? the camera release is still weeks away and we would beneft from your preview. Like most serious buyers, I would only finalize the decision to buy based on multiple reviews including yours. So, for me at least, there is no harm done with missing out on the "original" prototype preview from March. Thanks and keep up the good work.
I seriously doubt I'll get a camera to preview. I imagine I'll get a production model to review, but I don't know when.

[SClark]

Jeff, don't let it get you down. I don't know their reasons as I don't know their reasons for having such terrible quality control on their DSLR equipment. My only conclusion is they just don't care as long as they keep selling. bought into Canon system so having a thin pocketbook I can't easily switch brands.

Both DSLRs I have, had to go in two and three times to get focus adjusted correctly when brand new. I had bought a 70-200f4 and tried two different ones and both were quite out of focus at certain distances and apertures, both different from each other I might add. I returned and got my money back and haven't bought anything new since. A 300f4IS lens I had, had the auto and manual focus both stop working. It was out of warranty and I paid to send it in and have it fixed. It took almost a month and lo and behold when I got it back it would focus once and then lock up. When I checked on when it would be returned, they kept saying it was being tested. Well they certainly didn't test it well to say the least. I sent it back and this time they found a loose front element and some other things. I even had a small P&S I bought break during the first few months of ownership. I haven't upgraded since the 10D because of the aggravation of sending in everything new, multiple times to get fixed. At least once they got the focus fixed both my 10D and old D30 still work fine. If Nikon had a 300f4vr I would jump ship like a flash.

I have used a Nikon and it did have much more accurate autofocus than Canon. Most sites only mention speed of autofocus and not accuracy. Speed isnt much without accuracy. I would like to see this covered more in reviews.

I suggest and would really like to see you put up a satisfaction survey people could fill out on their different camera brands and service quality. How many have had to send in for adjustment or repair when brand new and how many times they have to send for problems to get fixed. I once found a site that had a large survey like this and Canon was way ahead with quality and repair problems. I lost the site and do not know if it is even up anymore.

[luller6]

This is my last comment about it, Jeff plz. go on with canon reviews.

I allways respected this site very much and recommended it to everybody - but this childish - this bad bad Canon story makes me loose respect.

I am in an international business and sometimes my clients are annoying & shocking me, especial my chinese clients, but i may think to myself "damn" but never will show it to anybody, because it is simply unprofessional.

In cooperation with japanese companies you have to learn about "tatemae" - it means to show the friendly (or poker) face allways or "wear the mask" to make social relacionships or business relationships going well.
Never ever get angry and out of control, you will not be respected anymore then..
Japanese will never forget such an "Embarrasing situation".

To Mr Clark, i have never had problems with the AF of the 5D1 and 5D2, what really annoys me is, that in high contrast environment the Cam seems impossible to adjust to the right exposure.

[XSiWorks4Me]

Sorry Jay, but with all due respect, I have to disagree with this. I think you're really over-dramatising your concerns here (from the viewpoint of Jeff's credibility with Canon USA).

I'm not sure (obviously) how au fait you are with the photographic industry — as represented from the perspective of review sites such as this — but over a decade Jeff has built up one of the most industry-respected, and consumer-trusted review sites there is out there — worldwide. And it's undoubtedly taken him a tonne of down 'n' dirty work and personal effort to do so. So he's certainly not gonna unwittingly "jeopardise" his site's survival — and his own commercial future for that matter — by overreacting or crying 'foul' imprudently (as you seem to think he, and us members, have).

In short, I think you've possibly underestimated the penetrative power of a handful of 'professional' digital camera review sites (such as this) into the buying public's mind-set. And for this reason alone, the big camera manufacturers will "look after" the major players in the review business. Loads of free advertising, brand awareness, upgrading, cross-selling, impulse buying... whatever. It's obviously worth the industry's time and money to provide loaners for review, so I'm guessing that this is nothing more than a hiccup.

Cheers :)

Definitely point taken...

But again, as I stated before, working for a technology based company based out of Japan. I do have some insight into how Japanese companies work in relation to their US counterparts. And they simply don't look kindly on ANY bad publicity...And really try hard to avoid it.

But I have to agree that this is probably a hiccup. It's just that a 10 page thread revolving around said hiccup....doesn't help matters...that I know.

[Dark Cobra]

I do have some insight into how Japanese companies work in relation to their US counterparts. And they simply don't look kindly on ANY bad publicity...And really try hard to avoid it.

If they genuinely believe this then perhaps they might have taken their own advice BEFORE they did what they did here to Jeff huh?


But I have to agree that this is probably a hiccup.

I agree and I think we are all hoping this is the case as we await their reversal of this matter.


It's just that a 10 page thread revolving around said hiccup....doesn't help matters...that I know.

Couldn't disagree more . . . without Jeff shinning a very prominent and may I add FAIR and HONEST light through this THREAD on "Why" this site was unable to announce this camera and speak about it, there would NEVER have been a return call from Canon to wish to resolve the problem. Illumination is often the best cure for "hiccups" (as it's been phrased in your posting).

If as you say the Japanese don't like embarrassment, then Jeff had to at a minimum show that embarrassment is precisely what THEY did to him. "Beowulff" had it right in all that he said above. I'm remaining confident they will now fix this and Jeff starting this thread was indeed his "right" and the right thing to do. The 10 pages of support backs him up as well.

[cklammer]

Hi, Jeff,

Maybe you shouldn't have linked to the CHDK Wiki (http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK) in your SX10is review (http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/canon/powershot_sx10-review/index.shtml) !?!

Although there is no evidence in the public record whether Canon "likes" or "dislikes" the CHDK: based on the timing of the SX10is review and the subsequent problems you faced with Canon it is pretty obvious to me that someone at CANON (USA ?) has "punished" you by "taking" you "out of the loop" due to the CHDK link.

How stupid can Canon be ? Snubbing and antagonizing millions of photography enthusiasts in these times of economic hardship by witholding information about their products ? And antagonizing a fair, well-reputed camera reviewer like you who influences the purchase decisions of millions ?

Canon, come down from your high-f***ing horse and get a reality check: Your high-handed Japanese corporate culture stressing "saving face" doesn't work outside of Eastern Asia. Sticking your head in the sand and expecting everybody else to play along with you just on principle is arrogant ...

Canon, you should be thankful that your cameras are so popular that people spend their time to hack them and add additional functionality in their own free time by their own efforts.

Canon, the smart thing for you to do is to support fair and open reviewers like Jeff Keller to the hilt with whatever he needs as quickly as possible.

Canon, I really hope for you guys that you kicked the jerks who did this to Jeff so hard out of the door that they catch up with their bums the next continent over ...

Jeff, please keep up the good work ...

Best Regards,
cklammer

[Jeff Keller]

I don't think mentioned CHDK had anything to do with it. Apparently they decided on their Ti1 plans months and months ago.

I'm speaking with them this afternoon, so cross your fingers!

[Jeff Keller]

I spoke with Canon's PR manager today. It was a short but pleasant conversation. She sort-of apologized for my being left out of the loop and seemed to indicate that more sites (like this one) would be included in the future. She also liked my presentation quite a bit and was going to show it around to the important people.

So, I guess now we'll see what happens when the next announcement comes around. In the meantime, I'll get back to reviewing Canon cameras for you all.

Thanks for everyone's support in this matter!

Jeff

[dotbalm]

Jeff,

That is excellent and encouraging news; kudos to you for putting forth a good package.

[Dark Cobra]

Congratulations to you Jeff! It does very much look like "ALL" the steps you've taken are indeed paying off. Basically, you kept a level head yet weren't afraid to shed the proper illumination on what happened. It appears they now realize somebody simply blundered and are in the process of reversing this situation. It might be a good idea to close down this thread in good faith about now. It can always be re-addressed should things turn bad again but I'm feeling positive right now. Congrats Jeff . . . we're all proud of you!

[XSiWorks4Me]

Nice Work Jeff....

I hope the person you spoke to at Canon follows through on what they said and does what they said they would do. It's no guarantee of results...but the fact that discourse has now happened is a big step forward. Now let's see what happens in the future...

I hope this means that everything is now hunky dory and we get to hear your opinion on the new Rebel.

I just got the XSi in October (sigh) and already think I may want the new one for that luscious 920,000 pixels LCD if nothing else. (Of course many other features are attractive...But I guess I like fancy screens)

I, like many, will wait to hear what you have to say before making "my final answer".

[Ajajong]

Congratulations Jeff!

Good to hear there are at a company as Canon also people who trust your work.

By the way Jeff, this is a little of topic, but a view months ago ypu were speaking of giving top camera's a ind of "award". I am curious which one will get the first award....

Koop