Anyone tempted by this one? Fuji200EXR.

[herc182]

Mentioned this earlier in the month...think I might go for it...

http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/fujifilm_finepix_f200exr_review/

Or what does anyone else think? I remember K1W1 raving about a Ricoh model?

Thoughts?

[Cyberwlf]

I think that it is probably a nice compact, but the review definitely didn't sell me on it. With the NX and other new CMOS based compacts i think the Fuji is a welcome progression, but the CMOS based ones seem more promising to me, especially with the EXR dropping an image down to 6mp just to get better dynamic range or slightly improved noise control (vs the 12mp image). Also the manual controls on it although apparently better than the 100d seem too limited, 2 aperture settings to chose from in AP or M mode? wtf?!

[David Metsky]

Why is this in the Nikon Digital SLR forum?

[herc182]

because it was discussed once before by some of the members as a backup p&s for their main camera. As was the ricoh model.

[Cyberwlf]

Also, because Nikon don't offer any compacts to compliment their dSLR range. You know, good ones i mean.

Incidentally it'd be interesting to see a CMOS censor in something with the build/make and design of the Panasonic Lumix LX3, i reckon it'd make for a very highly compelling offering.

[tim11]

Why is this in the Nikon Digital SLR forum?

Because:
1. DSLR owner still needs a portable compact.
2. Nikon makes shitty compacts.


- - - - - - - - - - - -
EDIT: OKAY I REPHRASED IT. :D

Because:
1. DSLR owners still need good portable compacts.
2. Nikon makes shitty compacts.
3. Some Nikon DSLR users are too lazy to venture out of home.

Disclaimer: take me seriously at your own risk.

[jcon]

Because:
1. DSLR owner still needs a portable compact.
2. Nikon makes shitty compacts.

1. Then they can navigate over to that specific forum.
2. All well and dandy, but this IS the DSLR forum, no?

[Cyberwlf]

It's for the benefit of those of us who don't venture outside the Nikon dSLR sections ;)

[David Metsky]

1. Then they can navigate over to that specific forum.
2. All well and dandy, but this IS the DSLR forum, no?
That's my opinion as well. It's the reason we have these separate forums. But I'll let it drop. :)

[herc182]

OK...thanks everyone...but any other thoughts on a suitable compact that would substitute my beloved Nikon D80 and collection of lenses.

I want high quality shots up to iso 800, a zoon from 15mm to 300mm, the same DOF as that provided by my fast lenses and a vertical hand grip, no shutter lag, RAW capture and at least 9 auto focus points...

Nikon, I have laid the gauntlet for you to surprise me with the compact aforementioned...oh, and not a penny over £300.

[K1W1]

It's the reason we have these separate forums. But I'll let it drop. :)

Unlike some forums the members of this one are generally reasonably wide thinking individuals whose interest is in photography not just the narrow subsection of photography that the forum specifically highlights. We often have threads that are off topic as far as a strict interpretation of the forum name is concerned and I for one am happy with the way this area operates and way that people generally get along.

It's very interesting that you have raised this objection you did and you are not a particularly frequent contributor to this particular forum.

Thanks herc for posting the link but there is one correction I maust insist on. I didn't "rave" about the Ricoh, I can't do that because I have never even seen one in the flesh but what I did say from memory is that it appeared to push all the right buttons. :)

[Rooz]

i just had a quick look and given i;m in the market for a P&S, this does look very good. no raw though...hmmm...the lx3 looks to me to be the best bet from what very little i know of the market. it just pisses me off that the p6000 is so crap, to be able to have the flexibilit to put the sb400 on a compact really would be awesome.

[herc182]

Thanks herc for posting the link but there is one correction I maust insist on. I didn't "rave" about the Ricoh, I can't do that because I have never even seen one in the flesh but what I did say from memory is that it appeared to push all the right buttons. :)

agree on other points, we are very lateral thinking humans, us Nikon people.

I do remember you saying something else about riding your bike and firing off a few shots with one hand...is that not illegal, EVEN in australia (I am referring to driving whilst NOT under the influence of alcohol...)?

[K1W1]

I do remember you saying something else about riding your bike and firing off a few shots with one hand...is that not illegal, EVEN in australia

I don't know. I suspect that there is nothing to say that it is specifically but I guess they could get you for dangerous driving or something. Taking your hand off the handle bars per se is not illegal, you have to do that to give hand signals for turning which, although all bikes have indicators are still legal.

Now if I was stopped and found to be wearing my iPod ear buds under my helmet that would be illegal on the basis that I was blocking traffic noise but if I was stopped and was wearing ear plugs that is okay (I do both those things at different times). Go figure.

Just forget you read the above because it's not actually here because it doesn't pertain to Nikon DSLR's. :D:D

[herc182]

i just had a quick look and given i;m in the market for a P&S, this does look very good. no raw though...hmmm...the lx3 looks to me to be the best bet from what very little i know of the market. it just pisses me off that the p6000 is so crap, to be able to have the flexibilit to put the sb400 on a compact really would be awesome.

I read a straight comparison between the nikon and canon high end p&s. Names escape me now. Pound for pound the nikon was very good but the canon edged it. Plus I like the size of the canon and it's control layout compared to nikon. Never thought I would say that :D however the fuji pushes my buttons despite no raw. I only ever use raw for hdr and the fuji seems to have a high DR function that works quite well.

One thing I will say is that all viewfinders on p&s are crap. From the ones I have seen.

Now ricoh have done a lot of good things but always fall down in the noise department. Even at low ISO.

Otherwise I am looking at the panasonic G1. But at a cost !

[herc182]

also found this:

http://www.cameras.co.uk/camera-reviews/advanced.cfm?featuresort=total

[Rooz]

interesting phil. thats the first time i've ever seen a positive review on the p6000. every other review i've read gives it a flogging pretty much. that dumbass raw thing they did with it is beyond comprehension stupid. whatever nikon genius thought of that needs to be shot...or at the very least shipped to sony.

[K1W1]

Okay lets get totally off topic. :)

Very brief preliminary review of a Ricoh CX1 here (http://www.dpexpert.com.au/).

[herc182]

Okay lets get totally off topic. :)

Very brief preliminary review of a Ricoh CX1 here (http://www.dpexpert.com.au/).

thread officially hi-jacked.

I like the look of it, but the back looks "cheap"...bombastic statement since i have not held one, but there you go.

The price is attractive too.

[XaiLo]

Does this mean we can't talk about triggers any more... :(

[K1W1]

Does this mean we can't talk about triggers any more... :(

Apparently not it's straight down the line Nikon DSLRs only from now one.

No lenses
No Speedlights
No Capture NX
No tripods
No wine
No motorcycles, iPods, cars, kids, flowers, bugs or sharpening.

:D:D

[jcon]

I guess if people are going to continue to make smart ass remarks about this, and refuse to let it die, then maybe Jeff can chime in and explain why there are specific forums here for specific topics because obviously some of us are confused about why there are specific forums. Who knows, maybe he can just get rid of them all and we can all discuss whatever we want in one "happy" place. Anyone have any killer quiche recipes????

[Cyberwlf]

No need to get upset over people spreading the realms of an areas conversation beyond text book strict definitions.

I agree that there is generally well exercised breadth of discussion, and that discussion does for a good 90% of the time remain Nikon dSLR specific. Heck threads like my own on tripods could be considered OT in the strictest sense, even though i was asking about them in direct relation for use exclusively with Nikon dSLR gear only, but as the gear itself has no relation to Nikon, then technically, it's OT!

As stated i think most people here are reasonably open minded, and is a not a forum area which has degenerated to zealot/religious style brand affiliations/associations. As such it also stands to reason that asking for something 'which compliments' a Nikon dSLR system still actually relates to Nikon dSLR's, as it identifies a type of user (a Nikon dSLR user) who is not looking to depart from being one but now wishes to have something to compliment their Nikon dSLR system. So yes, this thread is technically not in the strictest sense on topic, but the only real 'rules' it might breach is that of blind sighted zealotry towards a single brand.

[TheWengler]

Why is this in the Nikon Digital SLR forum?

Haha, this one and half the threads in this forum. It would be nice if people put general DSLR talk in the DSLR forum and photos in the photo gallery, etc., but I think that might be asking too much. People would rather choose where to post based on what's in their sig rather than their thread topic.

[Rooz]

No need to get upset over people spreading the realms of an areas conversation beyond text book strict definitions.

I agree that there is generally well exercised breadth of discussion, and that discussion does for a good 90% of the time remain Nikon dSLR specific. Heck threads like my own on tripods could be considered OT in the strictest sense, even though i was asking about them in direct relation for use exclusively with Nikon dSLR gear only, but as the gear itself has no relation to Nikon, then technically, it's OT!

i just noticed you had the LX3. what are your thoughts on it ?

[XaiLo]

Hey for the record I was just jokeing and not trying to fan any flames. I'm interested in a pocket sized P&S and have been for a while... so I am finding these threads interesting without having to worry about perspective. A lot of us have simular equipment and we know to a more comfortable extent who we're getting info and thoughts from. There's plenty of grief in the world we need not add to it. :)

[Rooz]

i dont see any reason why the forum cant be whatever we want it to be. i think there is a generally high interest from everyone here about high qulaity P&S cameras.

[Cyberwlf]

i just noticed you had the LX3. what are your thoughts on it ?
The LX3 has managed to surprise me at times quite pleasantly

On a harder to quantify level...
- It's delivered better performance than I would've expected of a P&S in terms of IQ at times (ie. compared shots taken at the same site with my Nikon on the computer and not realised it had come from the LX3 and not my D300)

- I prefer the look of the images it produced over my old Canon PowerShot G9

Beyond that technically...
- The f2.0 lens has made a real world difference ive found to ISO's it utilises, often resulting in lower ISOs (and thus less noise) than what most other P&S's would've had to resort to

- 24mm lens.. ie 16mm equivalent lens on a DX crop body, so it offered me an extra 1-2mm over my 18-200 VR or 17-70 Macro, can be surprising how much the extra 2mm wide angle can help at times

- The aspect ratio external switch + AF/AF Macro/Manual switch is also something ive come to enjoy having as a physical switch (and not the typical software based menu control)

- iA mode is scarily good. It's an idea similar in innovation to Ricoh and Fuji's way to deal with image capture. Intelligent Auto mode (iA) though does not try to take multiple shots (and thus become more prone to blur), it attempts to gauge the scene to find the best balance of exposure, metering, ISO, and white balance to use with its sensor. And as pretty much every review out there of the LX3 also confirms, it does so quite accurately. It takes pretty much all the control beyond composition/timing of shot/location away from the user though in this mode.

The downside is you get no automatic merging of lower and higher exposure values / metering into a single file to get greater DR that way, or the packing of more photosites together (and reduced MPs) that Fuji does to get improved DR (and limited improvements in noise reduction), but i'd argue Ricoh's way is easy to reproduce in software, Fuji's way though isn't. The other downside is iA mode doesnt support RAW, it's JPEG only

- All other modes support RAW, and the included RAW package besides managing to make CaptureNX 1.x seem likely an ingeniously designed UI is actually quite functional and has a good range of features

- High ISO noise is improved from earlier Lumix's, partially due to the VenusIV engine and partially due to the way they've chosen to draw less MPs and have larger photosites from what is technically a 12 MP sensor. That said, the new Fuji's higher ISO shots do seem better than the LX3

- It does genuinely fit in a pocket, which is more than i could say for my Canon PowerShot G9. And i appreciate the fact it has a lens hood, and there are options for lens adapter+filters (granted the WA adapter for it is pointless, as it kills its compact nature)

- It's zoom range is limited, very limited, no real telephoto support, but for wide angle and 35/50mm equiv work its fine

- It gets firmware updates (okay, so i just enjoy the fact it continues to be enhanced over time, even if in a limited way!)

Hope that helps ;)

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

Anyone have any killer quiche recipes????

Yes - tastes magic

[cdifoto]

There's a thread about the F200EXR already going in the Fuji section.

[Rooz]

[quote=Cyberwlf;364491
- I prefer the look of the images it produced over my old Canon PowerShot G9
- It does genuinely fit in a pocket, which is more than i could say for my Canon PowerShot G9. And i appreciate the fact it has a lens hood, and there are options for lens adapter+filters (granted the WA adapter for it is pointless, as it kills its compact nature)
[/quote]

thanks for the write up. i have always loved the G9 but turned off by the size. this is exactly what i was lookign for. thanks. :)

[K1W1]

this is exactly what i was lookign for. thanks. :)

I assume that you did read this (http://www.bythom.com/compactchallenge.htm) when it was published some time ago.

[michaelb]

i dont see any reason why the forum cant be whatever we want it to be. i think there is a generally high interest from everyone here about high qulaity P&S cameras.
Ditto.

I only follow a few forums on DC Resource here and I know the people who hang out in the Canon dSLR forum and some of the people here. So if I want advice on a P&S that's where I'd ask it; I have an idea whose advice I trust and whose I don't. ;)

Plus if I was looking for a P&S I'd rather ask people who use also dSLR's.

By the way on the "Canon-mount SLR" forum on FM there are "which P&S should I get?" threads about every week.

[herc182]

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmclx3/


Just read through this...its winning so far, after the canon G10 :D

Amazing how I change my mind so quickly...:D

oh and this link!

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Q408enthusiastgroup/

[Thronsen]

I was looking at the LX3 to replace my aging Fuji F31fd. Seems people on this site are less enthusiastic about the LX3's low light performance. Someone compared its ISO pictures to the F30 and they didnt look as good.

http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43513&page=2

[Cyberwlf]

The shots used in that thread from the F30 were also often half the resolution too of the LX3s, and differences beyond that also are influenced by the different ways cameras process the image, ie what degree of saturation/contrast/etc applied. F30/F31fd's have tempted me in the past, but never really been sold on one. I know they have their fans though. But yeah, there's enough recent cross camera comparisons done by actual camera reviewers from various photo sites about which often favours the LX3 over the competition, although G10 does still make for strong 2nd place in such comparisons.

[cdifoto]

But yeah, there's enough recent cross camera comparisons done by actual camera reviewers from various photo sites about which often favours the LX3 over the competition, although G10 does still make for strong 2nd place in such comparisons.
That's pretty much because the f30 is discontinued and you can't recommend a camera that's not available anymore over current offerings that are available. It's not because the LX3 is such an awesome camera. Fuji still puts out decent cameras but they dropped the ball when they rejoined the MP race...so they don't stand out like they used to.

In short, nothing is really that great these days.

[Thronsen]

The shots used in that thread from the F30 were also often half the resolution too of the LX3s, and differences beyond that also are influenced by the different ways cameras process the image, ie what degree of saturation/contrast/etc applied. F30/F31fd's have tempted me in the past, but never really been sold on one. I know they have their fans though. But yeah, there's enough recent cross camera comparisons done by actual camera reviewers from various photo sites about which often favours the LX3 over the competition, although G10 does still make for strong 2nd place in such comparisons.

Towards the end of the thread he makes an additional comparison (The Celestial Tea box). Not sure if you caught that one as well, apparently he controlled for more then he had in the first set of photos.

Yeah for me though its less about getting an LX3 or some other camera out there. Its more about whether I retire my Fuji 31fd for something better, or keep using it till something better comes along....

[cdifoto]

Yeah for me though its less about getting an LX3 or some other camera out there. Its more about whether I retire my Fuji 31fd for something better, or keep using it till something better comes along....
I'd do the latter if I were you...

[Cyberwlf]

If you're convinced the LX3 is shit then don't buy it, it's really that simple, but doesn't actually make it in any way a bad camera. Maybe because i come from the perspective of being a prior Lumix user I see its many positives, having used 4 other Lumix models before it (and having literally taken in the tens of thousands of photos with them) i am of the strong opinion its a quality P&S. I've also owned and used several Olympus cameras in the past too. So to me its a good camera, but then again I also thought Nikon's are good dSLRs, maybe i am just a bad judge of cameras and i should've really bought a Canon?? :p

[herc182]

I am still in the market for one and still cannot decide.

Have looked at the Sigma DP2 but the resolution of the sensor is still an unknown for me and the reviews arent that optimistic about it. Although they all rave about the photo quality (mostly the DOF which to be honest, doesnt make me want to blow £500 on!).

The LX3 is still a possibility but, but...i came across the olympus EP-1...now isnt that a little gem?
Thoughts? Reviews seem to be VERY positive. I would only be interested in one lens on it. But the photo quality, manual controls, noise and portability all seem to tick the boxes. Now PRICE...that is a box i havent addressed yet....

[K1W1]

The Pen is a neat looking little camera. I love the retro half leather cover for it, it reminds be of the cameras of my youth (I guess it's supposed to). I can see a lot of people doing really great things with it but I suspect that price wise it's going to be in DSLR territory and not low end either if the G1 pricing is any guide.

[herc182]

its damn expensive....more than a DSLR!!

http://www.jacobsdigital.co.uk/index.php?target=products&product_id=53968

[Rooz]

was always bound to be. cool little unit.

[herc182]

oh dear...another review on the EP1 and a step closer to spending D700 savings :)

Look at the iso performance between iso 1000 and 6400...its actually stunning (for
four thirds and what I would essentially use as a compact - I hope)

[faisal]

You're not the only one tempted!!! :|
It's a great tool in a professional camera hostile UAE....

[K1W1]

Look at the iso performance between iso 1000 and 6400...its actually stunning (for
four thirds and what I would essentially use as a compact - I hope)

I think that it's time a Moderator deleted this thread. :D

[herc182]

Hmm I missed the link in my previous post it seems. And can't find it again!! Here is another glowing one though http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/EP1/EP1A.HTM

I am so annoyingly tempted

[Rasidel Slika]

looked at all these "nicer" P&S lately (been looking to get a smaller cam for a while) - decided I did not want to sacrifice IQ and got a D60 instead. :D

[Rooz]

i'm not yet convinced until i see proper comparative reviews. some of those iso tests look very fishy to me. (did you really get a d60 ? i've been thinking the same thing.)

[Rasidel Slika]

yeap just ordered it earlier today. I haven't been this excited about getting a new toy in a while. :D Really looking forward to always having a camera with me. There's just been so many times when I wish I had one, but I just can't take the 5D everywhere I go.

considered: 200EXR, Lumix ZS3 (not the LX3, didn't want to spend that much), SD870 (whichever the one with 720p video), G10, briefly T1i but thought that was too much, XTi, XSi. Finally decided on D60 after checking out a friend's, I love the form factor and I have some Nikon gear that I can use with it (SB600 etc). After looking at the sample images from these P&S cams I just realized I have been too spoiled by SLR quality and when I found out I could pretty much get an SLR for the same price as the P&S I was looking at, I was like wtf - done.

[Rasidel Slika]

btw obviously there are goods and bads of both sides of the camp, for instance you may want the HD video (I did at first) and the pixel binning feature on the EXR was interesting for sure (but the 6MP did kinda make me shake my head). ZS3 is what I was going to get, if I went the P&S route - it actually has Stereo Dolby recording in video mode, something unheard of in pretty much all other cams - and the video quality was nice too. Supposedly has a really good "intelligent auto" mode that makes up for its lack of manual controls.

Depending on how I feel later on, I may still end up getting a ZS3 (or newer cam), as I am still interested in pocket-sized HD video.

[herc182]

this was the review link i missed the first time...
http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/01/olympus-e-p1-hands-on-test-shots-and-mini-review/

ZS3 is something I have looked at too...!

[Rasidel Slika]

that Olympus looks nice - and it has stereo 720p video also. but the price.. damn.

[herc182]

I know...by default a "compact" should not cost more than your DSLR :) It is more than when I bought the D80!

So will have to keep looking...I think I would be tempted to take it out instead of my Nikon (since I would have paid so much for it!!).

Still leaning towards the LX3 though. watching a few on ebay...

[Prospero]

The E-P1, though compact in size, can hardly be called a compact in almost every other way, though.

It's a bit like the old rangefinders with interchangeable lenses, but then with a lcd screen instead of an optical viewfinder. It's a bit like the Leica M8, in fact.

When keeping that in mind, the price suddenly is not all that high anymore :)

[Rasidel Slika]

so what are the top reasons in getting one, then? what are the E-P1's strengths that justify the price?

[Prospero]

The camera has interchangable lenses, has a decent sensor size and is very compact.

So, you get most of the advantages of a DSLR in a much smaller, and lighter package. Not only does that make the camera easier to take with you everywhere, but it also draws a lot less attention to the photographer, which is good in candid situations. The lack of a mirror and the related noise makes it even better in this respect.

Additionally, from what I have heard the live view on this camera has decent autofocus, unlike live view on Nikon and Canon cameras. Also, the movie mode seems to be quite good.

Camera's that are so compact and offer interchangeble lenses are very rare. In fact, the only other camera that meets these requirements that I can think of is the Leica M8, which is simply way to expensive for the general public.

[K1W1]

So, you get most of the advantages of a DSLR in a much smaller, and lighter package. Not only does that make the camera easier to take with you everywhere, but it also draws a lot less attention to the photographer, which is good in candid situations. The lack of a mirror and the related noise makes it even better in this respect.

Additionally, from what I have heard the live view on this camera has decent autofocus, unlike live view on Nikon and Canon cameras. Also, the movie mode seems to be quite good.

All of which justify the price.

[Cyberwlf]

Took the LX3 on holidays very recently to France. Was packing light (for a change) and had no real space for camera gear but took my LX3. Made regular use of the access to full manual controls, the f2.0 and the wide angle lens during the trip, made me appreciate the LX3 a whole lot more than i had before. The f2.0 combined with the LX3's better noise control (compared to EXR200) finally allowed me to take some indoor shots i'd never imagined with a P&S before, also got good use out of the wide angle aspect of the lens too.

[Cyberwlf]

E-P1 is a tempting offering but i was put off by the sample shots i saw which showed noise was noticeable at even base ISOs.

[Cyberwlf]

LX3 shot taken inside a church, no PP applied, no flash used, and was hand held:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2438/3695477347_0553eb0dcc_b.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2438/3695477347_d14732fa92_o.jpg)

Link through to original resolution image included.. image not rotated...

For such low light conditions the amount of detail visible at 100% magnification is impressive given it came from a P&S.

[Cyberwlf]

Another indoor hand held shot, ISO 800...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3439/3695512661_72d942f56c.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3439/3695512661_bf1eab5258_o.jpg)

Link included to original image once again...

Noise is more visible here @ 100%, but the detail retention still remains good..

[Rasidel Slika]

I too, was put off by the Olympus EP1 shots. Looked average and displayed typical P&S characteristics such as terrible foliage rendition and sky detail. $800? not in a million years. give me IQ over lens-swapping ability.

[herc182]

cyberwlf

Those are some sweet shots at what seems to be very high isos for a compact. I was a bit put off from Jeffs review where he said that noise reduction smudges details at even low
isos. Is that true?

could you post some more examples from this camera? I think I have ruled myself out of the Olympus due to its cost and the fact its a DSLR and NOT a compact!! I would probably end up spending more money on that in the future. Also I dont want another
bloody dust collector. My D80 sensor currently looks like an ashtray. I really need to clean that. I actually dont even want to take the aperture past f11 because it all shows up!!

So the LX3 is my top choice at the moment since the sigma is too expensive and I wasnt sold on the reviews I have read, and the fuji 200EXR seems to have been a bit of a let down on image quality (as well as a lack of manual controls).

Also, does changing the aperture make a huge difference on a compact? I remember I had the panasonic FZ20 and the DOF was pretty uniform to be honest. Only went as far as f8 but from 2.8, unless i cranked up the zoom, it didnt really make a huge difference. Do you get the same impression?

Thanks!

[Rooz]

phil you're right, at infinity focus the differences are miniscule i found. when you get up real close though there is definately some excellent dof control.

the advantages of the lx3
at the end of the day f2-2.8 is a fast lens. i mean at the short end its f2 which is like 1.5 stops better than most compacts and a full stop better than the g10. thats the difference between shooting at iso400 and getting very good IQ or shooting at iso800 and getting pretty ordinary quality. to me that is a HUGE difference.
24mm wide end vs the g10 at 28mm. thats make or break when you use a compact cos generally we use it at a dinner or something where everyone is around a table and it can fit everyone in very easily.
the IQ at lower iso's is mindblowingly good. i mean seriously...its something to behold that still amazes me.
its a proper compact. not a pseudo compact that sort of fits in a pocket. its bloody small which for my purposes was very important.
the shortcut menus using the joystick are brilliantly thought out.
aspect ratio switch on the lens for quick changing between 16:9, 3:2, 4:3. this was important to me cos i far prefer the 3:2 aspect to the regular compact size.

on the down side...
there is no OVF which can be tricky to get used to
no built in lens cap, (its attached by a string), which is VERY F*CKING ANNOYING.
the tele end is very short.
lumix raw software is quite simply...appalling, i refuse to use it.
its a compact and while some compacts perform better than others at hi iso...its a compact so dont expect iso miracles. they really arent that great in low light.
shutter lag...again, its no dslr so for fast moving things its gonna annoy the living shit out of you. sure lag times have come down but lord oh lord it feels like forever before it takes a shot.
battery life is pretty crap imo.

(btw: the lx3 has hit close to 5000 shots so far in a few months. that will give you an idea how much we use it. my wife LOVES it)

hope that helps you a little mate. heres a very quick and nasty test for you, differences between f2 and f8.

[K1W1]

Just for more information for potential buyers Thom Hogan did a comparison review that included the LX3 several months ago.

Link here. (http://www.bythom.com/compactchallenge.htm)

[Rooz]

thats a good review. my favourite part of it is this line...

"If you need pixels, you need the Canon, hands down. If you need the fast, wide, defect-free lens, you need the Panasonic. You don't need the Coolpix."

laughed hysterically when i read that.

[herc182]

phil you're right, at infinity focus the differences are miniscule i found. when you get up real close though there is definately some excellent dof control.

the advantages of the lx3
at the end of the day f2-2.8 is a fast lens. i mean at the short end its f2 which is like 1.5 stops better than most compacts and a full stop better than the g10. thats the difference between shooting at iso400 and getting very good IQ or shooting at iso800 and getting pretty ordinary quality. to me that is a HUGE difference.
24mm wide end vs the g10 at 28mm. thats make or break when you use a compact cos generally we use it at a dinner or something where everyone is around a table and it can fit everyone in very easily.
the IQ at lower iso's is mindblowingly good. i mean seriously...its something to behold that still amazes me.
its a proper compact. not a pseudo compact that sort of fits in a pocket. its bloody small which for my purposes was very important.
the shortcut menus using the joystick are brilliantly thought out.
aspect ratio switch on the lens for quick changing between 16:9, 3:2, 4:3. this was important to me cos i far prefer the 3:2 aspect to the regular compact size.

on the down side...
there is no OVF which can be tricky to get used to
no built in lens cap, (its attached by a string), which is VERY F*CKING ANNOYING.
the tele end is very short.
lumix raw software is quite simply...appalling, i refuse to use it.
its a compact and while some compacts perform better than others at hi iso...its a compact so dont expect iso miracles. they really arent that great in low light.
shutter lag...again, its no dslr so for fast moving things its gonna annoy the living shit out of you. sure lag times have come down but lord oh lord it feels like forever before it takes a shot.
battery life is pretty crap imo.

(btw: the lx3 has hit close to 5000 shots so far in a few months. that will give you an idea how much we use it. my wife LOVES it)

hope that helps you a little mate. heres a very quick and nasty test for you, differences between f2 and f8.

Thanks for taking the time for that Rooz. The DOF is actually quite significant which is actually surprising for me.
You are right that the lens being quite fast makes a difference when it means you dont have to bump up the iso. Something you dont want to do with a compact. I guess I have to concede that a compact will not give breathtakingly good shots at high isos. and to be honest, i wonder how often I even use the high iso, just like to have the option :)
Again, something from K1w1's link says that the jpegs are nothing to shout home about. its seems that I would have to shot raw and run it through a photoshop action to convert to jpeg and possibly sharpen up etc to get the images I want.

Is that something you have noticed rooz in jpeg format?

Thanks again for that test, I am really happy with those images, they showed quite a bit!

[herc182]

Does it have a good black and white mode (i.e. can you modify the settings in black and white)? I like to change the contrast and sharpness mostly.

Also, another big boon with a fast lens is image stabilisation. Didnt realise it came with that.

I really miss that from my Fz20 and because of that I had a lot of blurry shots with my D80 when I first got it!

[Rooz]

i only shoot it in jpeg cos for me its a P&S. zero or VERY little post. i have no complaints. could i get better quality ? sure. but thats not what i bought it for really.

[K1W1]

Think about it this way.
If it took the same quality pictures as a $2500 D300 + $900 16-85VR lens I for one would be mightily pissed off and I suspect the bottom would fall out of the consumer DSLR market overnight.

[herc182]

Think about it this way.
If it took the same quality pictures as a $2500 D300 + $900 16-85VR lens I for one would be mightily pissed off and I suspect the bottom would fall out of the consumer DSLR market overnight.

:D LOL. I would be onto a winner...screw that D700 with a 14-24 lens. I am off to get a Panasonic LX3 for under the price of a screen protector for your fancy camera.

I am not expecting stellar performance, but for a camera that costs a fair amount of money and that would make me consider leaving my D80 at home
(albeit temporarily), I will have fairly high expectations.

I think I am pretty much sold on the LX3 from what I have read. The only downer is the short zoom since I seem to be using that a lot recently on my
D80.

Arguably, they are getting closer to DSLR quality in the form of the Sigma DP2. Surely Nikon would wipe the floor with a DP2 type camera, especially with the leading ISO capability and Nikon branding.

Even if it cost £600, people would buy it.

[Rooz]

lol what i actually meant was that i dont think i'm squeaking out the best IQ from the lx3. am sure if you were intent on getting the best out of it you could really get a "wow" factor. thoms review is adamant that there's a marked difference in the raw files but honestly, i just cant be bothered and lara just takes the card out, plugs it into a photo booth and prints whenever she wants.

[K1W1]

Surely Nikon would wipe the floor with a DP2 type camera, especially with the leading ISO capability and Nikon branding.


I don't think Nikon are actually interested in the P&S market other than they need to have a presence their for branding reasons. Most of the Coolpix cameras are simply rebadged contract built cameras from standard designs made by Sanyo.

[herc182]

lol what i actually meant was that i dont think i'm squeaking out the best IQ from the lx3. am sure if you were intent on getting the best out of it you could really get a "wow" factor. thoms review is adamant that there's a marked difference in the raw files but honestly, i just cant be bothered and lara just takes the card out, plugs it into a photo booth and prints whenever she wants.

Thats the appeal right there and thats what I shouldnt forget.

Annoyingly I have now found two more panasonic cams of interest:

The TZ7 and the FX550

Not sure about those and the differences apart from the large zoom on the TZ7 and the lens is not as bright on either of the other two.

The TZ7 lacks manual controls apparently.

[herc182]

OK. still only interested in the FX3 :)

For a moment they all came out of the woodwork, including the Ricoh CX1. Alas, I am settling on the LX3. Looking on Ebay in case there is a steal on there, otherwise, going for a brand new one :DD

[herc182]

Deal done. Combined with my lack of work at work, a recent bonus and desire to buy a compact, I just ordered the LX3.

Paid £280 for a two month old one instead of £350 brand new. Not a bad saving (and its
still under warranty until 2011 apparently...comes with that too!).

Hopefully in time for my arrival next week :)

[Rasidel Slika]

LX3

http://www.pbase.com/kclee/image/102299120
http://www.pbase.com/kclee/image/102253768

[herc182]

LX3

http://www.pbase.com/kclee/image/102299120
http://www.pbase.com/kclee/image/102253768

nice shots...those are seriously good.

I also discovered that I can take HDR shots with it too as it has auto bracketing...what a compact....!!

[herc182]

Lol...just saw Rooz's "Loser" account on Flickr of how he bought the LX3...very good.

However, i also learnt that an LX4 might happen with a larger sensor...I would definitely be interested in that bad boy :D


I havent even held the camera yet and found this:

Rooz, interested? :)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200357771258&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching

I have ruled it out on the grounds that I will need a whole f******G bag of crap to take out the compact which is not the point of it!!

Damn you boredom and ebay, damn you...

[Rasidel Slika]

if LX4 will do HD video (I'm guessing it would) I may be in!

[herc182]

The LX3 does HD video doesnt it?

Anyway, not a video man myself. The appeal would be the video on a DSLR (after battling against it!).

A much bigger sensor on LX3 body, now that I would want.

[herc182]

Holy crap...had a look at these images at high iso.
OK its in good light but its better than I would expect from most compacts!

http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/6848477_oBTac#437912440_TcW4K

[faisal]

You're in love herc....just buy it!!! :p

[Rooz]

@ f4, 1/2000s iso3200 its not really a very good test is it ? lol
lets see him take another at f2.8, 1/60s, iso3200. all you'd see is snow. in fact hold up a sec, i'll go take a couple for ya...

[Rooz]

no i won't the wife has the camera in her car outside and its pissing down rain. lol

[herc182]

lol...thanks anyway...

maybe not the best test conditions you are right.

I have bought one faisal! waiting for delivery :)

[Cyberwlf]

The LX3 does have a bigger sensor...than its predecessors.

It also does HD video (http://www.lx3-photography.com/2008/12/lx3-hd-video-random-paris-footage.html) too.

Anyhow if you keep waiting for the next model you'll never buy a thing. It'd be like waiting for a D4/D400, sure it'll come, but just after you got it there'll be rumours of the next version already :p

[herc182]

So I thought I would write what I think of the LX3 so far.

Not used it a huge amount, and was disappointed with the condition of it, contrary to what the ebay listing said. But anyway, I got a rebate from the seller, so in total it cost me £230. Bargain :)

The camera itself is a joy. The photo quality is fantastic, the control of the camera is very easy and quick thanks to the little joystick it has. The options are very easy to change.

In good light, i will take it to iso 800 with no problems whatsoever. The noise is grainy and looks more film like. Its like my D80 infact in that respect, but obviously the performance not as good.

Not tried any night photography with it, but dont think i would go over ISO 200 with it in the night.

Generally keep it in black and white mode as I love the look of the photos it produces.

It has a stupendously good macro mode, and with the fast aperture, its actually quite creative.

Zoom is limited, and I do wish it was a touch longer, but I knew this before buying it.

The autofocus is QUICK for a compact and its easy to change the modes. I love having spot metering and forgot the ease of creating the photo you want by having a live view of the photo (as all compacts I guess!). BUt with a DSLR and spot metering, its sometimes hit and miss. You have to review the photo and see how it came out.
But with the compact, you can adjust the camera slightly before shooting. Excellent :)

The different shooting aspect ratios is cool, but not a deal maker in my opinion. Its nice to essentially crop in camera I guess.

There are plenty of in camera presets which are very customisable, so plenty of scope there.
The intelligent auto mode is psychic...fantastic and switch it to that if you hand the camera to someone else :)

Now what dont I like?
The battery meter is random and fluctuates a lot. I will switch it on and it will say one bar, then go to full bar, then probably settle on two (there are three bars). Might be mine but its annoying.
The battery cover is flimsy and I can see me breaking it at some point.
The mode selector dial is VERY easy to move...and therefore adjust by accident.

Apart from that, the camera is superb and would definitely recommend it.

Will post some examples now on a separate post.

[herc182]

OK So here are some examples. Straight out of camera, with black and white applied IN CAMERA. Only resized to put on here. ISO 80 unless otherwise stated!
1
47828

2
47835

3
47829

4
47830

5
47831

6 - ISO 100
47827

7 - ISO 400
47833

8 - ISO 400
47832

9 - ISO 500
47836

10 - ISO 800
47834

[herc182]

last one at ISO 800

11
47837

[herc182]

A review of the Olympus EP-1 whoever is interested (I know I am :))

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/OlympusEP1/

[Thronsen]

Thanks for all the reviews and pictures. Ive been wanting to upgrade my Fuji F31fd for a year now, but cant seem to find anything worthy to take its place.

[Rooz]

the control of the camera is very easy and quick thanks to the little joystick it has. .

did you know if you pressed the joystick down you get the quick access menu ?

[K1W1]

A review of the Olympus EP-1 whoever is interested (I know I am :))



It is an interesting review. "Highly recommended" but I dunno there are quite a few negatives.
I'm totally fascinated by the EP-1 for some reason it just hits some buttons (the Moto Guzzi V7 and Triumph Thruxton hit the same buttons btw). I can't see myself buying one simply because of the price but if the concept catches on the price will fall, the firmware will become sorted and maybe I'll get a camera I can carry in my pocket that produces wonderful images (not that the LX3 doesn't it just does not have any emotive reaction to me).

[Rooz]

if the ep-1 wasnt so expensive it would be much more attractive. the whole m4/3rds concept is very appealing.

[herc182]

did you know if you pressed the joystick down you get the quick access menu ?

Yeah I did...it was that menu I was talking about :)

[Rooz]

ahh ok. cos i didnt know about it for a while. i kept going into the menu to change that stuff and it was pissing me off. lol

(RTFM says rich...)

[herc182]

ahh ok. cos i didnt know about it for a while. i kept going into the menu to change that stuff and it was pissing me off. lol

(RTFM says rich...)

Tut tut...indeed...the manual is the first port of call, and perfect toilet reading material.

In fact I got it by mistake. When I get a new gadget I press everything and hold it down to see what effect it might have...wouldnt recommend that approach with a new car....

[K1W1]

..wouldnt recommend that approach with a new car....

So you want me to tell my wife that just because the speedo on her Audi goes to 300kph she shouldn't see if the car will get there.
Fat chance...:D

[Rooz]

So you want me to tell my wife that just because the speedo on her Audi goes to 300kph she shouldn't see if the car will get there.
Fat chance...:D

i dont believe janice and fat should be in the same post. watch yourself.

[Rooz]

phil are you shooting in raw ? if so what are you using to process the lx3 raw files ?

[herc182]

for the benefit of this thread. I wasnt using raw, those images are straight out of the camera.

[herc182]

quite interesting camera...no manual controls though, and a relatively slow lens. But the sensor sounds intriguing:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0908/09080602sonydsctx1wx1.asp#specs2

[Rooz]

it does. even if it doesn't perform as well as sony say it does, (which is highly probable), its great to see some thought and innovation being put into sensor design.

[dr4gon]

The WX1 does look interesting. The lens isn't that slow on the wide end. F/2.4. It's no LX3, that's for sure! lol.... I too wonder how it performs. After moving to an SLR, I seem to have too high of an expectation for a p&s.

What about the rumored GF1from panasonic? Their potentially latest E-P1 killer/M43 mount.

http://photorumors.com/2009/08/06/panasonic-gf1-micro-four-thirds/

[Rasidel Slika]

Im very interested in the WX1.. just went on presale at Amazon, $349.

[herc182]

posted some pics from the LX3 here:

http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44377

if you are interested!

[herc182]

my favourite photo from the lx3 so far. SOOC

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2673/3823464640_7ef297c642_b.jpg

[herc182]

oh crap:

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/PanasonicGF1/

[Rooz]

looks awesome man.

[K1W1]

Don't you guys ever look at the front page of this site?
Jeff has had a preview review up for about 10 hours.

[herc182]

Don't you guys ever look at the front page of this site?
Jeff has had a preview review up for about 10 hours.

whoa whoa whoa...there is another page on this forum other than the nikon one?

My RSS feeds have about 10 photography sites...I posted that one. Sorry Jeff!

[Cyberwlf]

Yeah saw this one on Nikon Rumour sites about a month back or so now (yep, Nikon...), it is basically from all impressions the ultimate combination presently of compact versatility / ease mixed with dSLR IQ and power, it's no D90/D300s/etc, but it sure seems to represent a good balance. Also unlike the Olympus Pen it doesnt seem to suck as much above low ISOs, and it has a Flash, and an EVF not fixed length piece of glass attachment. I still like my LX3, but i would've preferred this if the reviews prove true of what my impressions are.

[Rasidel Slika]

oh crap:

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/PanasonicGF1/
I think I found my next toy. WOW.

[K1W1]

I can buy Panasonic cameras wholesale. :D

[Cyberwlf]

I can't imagine the day Nikon would ever release a firmware update as good as this.. because otherwise they'd miss out on selling people essentially a new version of the same product (D300 vs D300s) (..even Canon has released something of a similar scale to this with the 5D Mk2 IIRC).

"Panasonic Updates Firmware of DMC-LX3 for Further Improvement in Functions and Performance

28th September 2009 : A new firmware version is now announced for Panasonic’s premium manual compact camera, DMC-LX3. Firmware version 2.0 supports several new functions and improves various performance factors to elevate shooting convenience and fun. The firmware also rectifies several minor issues to enhance operation.

The adoption of new algorithms makes it possible to speed up the AF time by approx.20% to 0.50 sec at wide-end. In addition, a 1:1 aspect ratio recording mode is added as a shooting option in addition to the conventional 4:3, 3:2 and 16:9.

A white balance bracket shot is also now available. The new scene mode High Dynamic is newly incorporated in the scene mode, which helps to capture a scene with moderate exposure even though the scene contains both bright and dark areas together. You can select either of 3 options, Standard, Art, or B/W, depending on the desired effect and personal taste to make the photo look natural to artistic. The white balance adjustment performance is greatly improved especially under fluorescent lights, daytime sunlight and low light.

As well as those mentioned above, the new firmware incorporates attractive advancements for enthusiastic photographers. The exposure compensation range as well as its bracket setting is widened. The fixed composition guidelines are now movable to the intended position with the control of cursor or joystick for free framing. Over exposed parts of the picture are shown not only in the preview but also in playback mode. The lens position of zooming and manual focusing is memorized and will resume at this position.

The photographer’s name can be embedded to the EXIF information of the picture and it can be confirmed via the updated PHOTOfunSTUDIO ver.2.1.

Panasonic invites all users of DMC-LX3 to apply the updated firmware. The new firmware will be available worldwide at, at 07:00 BST on 28th of September, 2009."

[herc182]

my god thats an awesome update.

Will have to do it. Not updated the LX3 yet.

Thanks for letting me/us know!

Also, an annoying thing I found recently. The whitebalance. I set it for indoor use (light bulbs) and it was fine. However, when I use a flash to illuminate someones face, the ambient light went bright red (i.e. the whitebalance for some reason messed up the ambient light even though it was set correctly before using the flash). I couldnt find anyway of rectifying it.

Any ideas?!

[Cyberwlf]

No idea why it was happening for you, but the new firmware update adds a host of WB refinements/enhancements as you can see, so it may address your issue?

[herc182]

hmmm. possibly. will get onto it tonight!

Thanks for that update.

[herc182]

That update is awesome.

That high contrast scene is actually REALLY good (from what I saw last night taking photos of my brightly lit laptop screen and dark surroundings).

What an update. Kudos to panasonic!

[K1W1]

I love the fact there is an ongoing discussion about Panasonic firmware updates on the Nikon DSLR forum but not a peep about them on either of the Panasonic forums.

[herc182]

Problem solved.

[K1W1]

That's cheating. :)

[herc182]

The Maradona of forums...

[Cyberwlf]

DCResource is yet to list the news too..

But yeah i did a few tests with it last night, testing high contrast and 1:1 ratio and +/-3 EV and bracketing, quite cool.

[herc182]

New one to consider...sony NEX-5

http://www.popphoto.com/content/sony-nex-5-sample-image-gallery?pnid=66410?cmpid=enews051110

Incredible detail at high ISO

[Rasidel Slika]

^^^^^^^^for sure!!!!!!!!!! I was so excited to hear about it today. cant remember the last time Ive been that excited about a cam.