Triggering remote SB600. What am I doing wrong?

[bbarlow641]

I can't figure this out. Maybe (hopefully) you can.

D70 with SB800 as MASTER on hotshoe. Remote SB600, set to remote, CH3 GrpA. MASTER set to CH3, A set to TTL (or M, or anything).

Problem: SB600 won't fire. With SB 800 removed and D70 in Commander mode, it (SB600) will fire. (Aside - probably not relevant - SB800 works in remote mode with D70 as Commander.)

I've read all three books, set everything I can figure out to set, with no luck. Noticed that the modeling light button on SB800 causes flash to fire, not to repeatedly flash at very low level as I think it should. Also, I can't detect any preflash flashes from the SB800, like I see from the built-in speedlight when in commander mode.

Seems like a strange way for an SB800 to fail, so I think I'm doing something wrong, but don't know what. Do you?

Ben

[Tomcat]

Do you have your camera set to commander with the SB800 attached. I'm not sure about this just a thought.

[bbarlow641]

Thanks. I think I tried that, along with setting the D70 in its several different flash modes. I'll go back and try it again, to make sure.
Ben

[bbarlow641]

Back at it this morning.

With SB in master mode, CH 3 and Camera flash settings TTL,M, Commander, no go. Commander settings TTL, M, AA. No go. No flash at all from remote SB600 set to 3A.

Take SB800 off camera, use pop-up speedlight in commander mode, SB600 fires just fine.

I can only conclude that the master mode of the SB 800 is somehow "broken" and can't convince the SB 600 to flash. I guess I'll have to use the SB800 as my sole on-camera light or as a remote. :mad:

[Tomcat]

Have you tried contacting Nikon?

[Tomcat]

It sounds like commander mode only works with the built in flash.

v Notes on using the Nikon D70's Commander Mode
Be sure to set the channel number of the remote flash unit to 3 and set the group
of the remote flash unit to Group A when performing wireless multiple flash using
the Nikon D70's built-in flash as a master flash unit (Commander Mode). If you do
not follow this procedure, the SB-600 does not fire.

Is your remote sensor facing the right way? It's on the right side of flash body. I don't know it this matters just something to check.

I only have the sb800 and it won't fire with the camera set for commander mode if the built in flash doesn't fire.

[Visual Reality]

It only needs to be able to pick up the pre-flash light from the on-board flash.

Using the SB-800 to communicate to the SB-600 though, would be line of sight or infrared.

[bbarlow641]

Tomcat-
Thanks for the help. I think I will contact Nikon someway, and see if I canget their attention. If I knew someone in my area with an SB800 to try, I'd do that, too. A camera store? (The SB800 came from Amazon)

This morning's session - I was taking pictures of the SB600 from about 6 ft, its right side was facing the camera. It triggered with the built-in speedlight just fine, so it's not sensor positioning...

Ben

[erichlund]

I suspect you need Rooz here. I'm almost certain he's done some of this.

Here's a couple of things to look for:
1. Is the receiving sensor on the SB-600 in a place where it will see the flash from the SB-800. The body of the flash has to be oriented so that the sensor gets the signal, and there can be no blockage. Remember, you can rotate the head, after the sensor on the body is properly oriented. I see that was just mentioned. The sensor is on the same side of the body as the battery cover.
2. I don't have a second flash, so I'm not sure about this, but I think you want the camera to not be in commander mode. If it's in commander mode, it will probably not send any signal to an external flash, only the internal flash, which is down. So, you probably want the camera in TTL.

3. If you have an extra tripod, have you considered operating both the SB-800 and SB-600 as remotes? Might solve your problem for now, until you have more time to figure it out.

[Tomcat]

I think thebuilt in flash with commander mode on is radio controlled. the sensor is an optical sensor operated by the light of the flash.

• It’s not possible to use different types of multiple flash operations together.
• Wireless multiple flash operation using Speedlights featuring CLS is called “Advanced
Wireless Lighting”.
• It is only possible to conduct multiple flash shooting in M (manual) mode using cords
when using cameras compatible with CLS and digital SLRs not compatible with CLS.

For your sb800 to fire the 600 the sensor needs to face the 800 and be within a 30 degree radius of the 800. At 6 feet from the subject the 600 should be no more than 3 feet 4 inches off the side of the subject.
Check out page 58 of the sb600 manual.

[Rooz]

sorry, i read this thread but have nothing to offer. if you have the sb800 in master mode and all of the channels/ groups right it should be firing.

will the sb800 fire remotely using the cameras PUF aswell ?

[achuang]

I think I know what's going on here. Channel 3 Group A is the channel and group that has to be set on the remote for the D70/s commander mode using the popup flash. I can't explain why the SB800 set to those settings won't fire the SB600, but it seems to work when you're using the popup. So maybe nikon have made Channel 3 Group A only for the popup commander.

[erichlund]

I think the advice to contact Nikon was probably for the best, before we all get you so screwed up that you swear off photography.

[XaiLo]

I know this might be a silly question but are the batteries in the SB-800 fully charged? Low batteries will stop the SB-800 from transmitting even if the SB-800 is still firing.

[bbarlow641]

Thanks to all who thought about, worked on, and responded to my problem. I think I've got it. The answer is a service call. I went to bed last night thinking about this, and when I woke up, an answer was sitting on the top of my head. First, a little bit about how these things work (I think.)

A power circuit charges a big capacitor (that's what goes on before the ready light lights). When it's time, the charge in that big cap is dumped through the flash tube, which gets real excited and lights up big time. To control the amount of light the flash tube generates, there needs to be some way to restrict that power dump from the big cap. For example, when you select a Manual 1/64th setting, you can't dump the whole cap, but want to release just part of it. Similarly, when you press the modeling button, or do a preflash to check exposure or to signal a remote, you want to restrict the power dump to a very low level.

I don't know how that' "restriction" is done, but I can imagine a smaller capacitor (or maybe a few of them) charging up to different levels, and then having their power fed to the flash tube at various times to cause a series of "mini-flashes".

Now if that "restrictor circuit", whatever it is, failed in such a way as to cause a direct feedthrough from the big cap, unable to restrict the amount of power it supplies, all my symptoms would be explained. Obviously, the modeling flash would fire with a big bang instead of a series of weak pulses. The preflash code sent to a remote would instead turn into one massive flash of light that would be unrecognizable, and the remote would remain silent. The exposure-checking mini flash that preceeds the main discharge when the SB800's used as an on-camera flash would be one huge flash, and when the shutter opened, all the flash energy would have already been spent, leaving the scene dark. Using the SB800 as a remote would work (sort of), because there's no "little flash" involved. It just watches for the code, and when it gets the signal, fires the flash. Of course, there'd be no control over the power setting - M 1/1 would be the same as M 1/128, but there would be light at the right time.

So, off to Nikon or some service place. I'm convinced it needs service. It won't be shooting Santa, that's for sure. Can anyone recommend a good service center, or am I at the mercy of the big Nikon machine?

[erichlund]

Call Nikon. Seriously. The phone is your friend. They want you to succeed. Successful photographers buy more stuff.

An alternative...go to a good camera shop. If it isn't where you bought your stuff, buy a nice lens. I recommend a 35mm f2. Then you are a customer, and when you start talking about a problem, they will be happy to help you become a permanent customer. Believe me, they know how to make your flash work, and I suspect that it does work.

[K1W1]

I have an unrelated, related question for the flash gurus.

If you have an SB-800 and a SB-600.
Neither flash is on camera.
Set the SB-800 as commander and the 600 as slave.

Now if you manually fire the SB-800 will it trigger the 600? I suspect not because the 800 will just flash with no intelligence associated but I'm curious.

[XaiLo]

Well I can answer that question for two SB-800's. The answer would be yes, even with the master set not to flash and remote set for TTL.

[K1W1]

In that case trying the two flashes off camera might point to whether the issue is with the SB-800 or with the camera body.

If the SB-800 fires the SB-600 off camera but won't do it when mounted on the body there may be a communication issue between the camera body and the flash unit.

[XaiLo]

I have to send one back to Nikon... it won't act as a master it will enter 'master mode' off camera but as soon as it's on camera it will short and go into 'off mode'. But it works just fine as a remote, go figure.

[bbarlow641]

It's off to Nikon for repair. (The SB800)

After talking to a repair guy and describing the symptoms, he recommended sending directly to Nikon; for the parts he figured would be required, an independent service center would just forward it to nikon and tack on another charge.

Haven't heard form Nikon yet ...

[XaiLo]

It's not under warranty?

[bbarlow641]

Three years old. No warranty.

[bbarlow641]

Just to follow up and end this thread, I got the SB800 back from Nikon service, all nice and clean, working, and they even fixed the pop-up diffuser. $130.

[06AWD]

Thought this thread would have answered my question, as I have as similar problem.

Camera: D90 (Built in flash set to Commander Mode, set to Group A, Ch 1)
Flash: SB-600 (used in wireless mode, Group A, Ch 1)

Issue: I'd would like the SB-600 to fire, but not the built in flash. I read in the D90's manual that it is possible to turn off the built in Flash, and that the AF Illuminator would fire instead to trigger the SB-600. However, I cannot get this to work. I have confirmed that the Channel and Group are correct and correspond to each other. The manuals for both the camera and the flash are not particularity clear on getting everything set up. Can anyone offer any suggestions?

[craigyc]

I dont think that the AF Illuminator can trigger the sb-600. But if you do not want the built in flash to show up in the exposure then you need to turn it off in the flash menu by setting it to off in the commander mode sub menu.

[06AWD]

Thanks for the reply. I do have it set to off, or "--" in the sub menu but it still fires. ???

[Rooz]

the PUF will always fire, thats the way it triggers the remotes. if you set it to "--" then it doesnt contribute to exposure cos it will fire milliseconds before the actual exposure begins.

[06AWD]

Interesting. So if I take a picture in complete darkness...

Let's say I am 0 degrees, standing in front of the subject. A wireless flash is at my right, lighting the scene from the side at 90 degrees. I press the shutter...

The resulting photo would be lit from the right side only? The built-in flash on my camera would not contribute to the exposure?

[craigyc]

bingo! its a great feature and one that i really use since I upgraded from the D40 (which did not have commander mode)

If you do not want to use the pop up flash then there is a commander module that you can get, it has more advanced features and fires without flashing, the SU-800, but for what you are using it for the built in flash will be just fine!

[06AWD]

Wonderful. I just tried it out and it works! Now I'm thinking of all the shots I can take that will have a dynamic look with some interesting lighting!