First DSLR

[GotToyota?]

Hello there guys, I have some experience with photography after finishing my film class this semester with my Canon Rebel G, and I'm jumping into the world of DSLR's.

Budget

$450 or less

Size
Doesn't matter but at the same time I have smaller hands

Features

How many megapixels will suffice for you?
At least 6MP or more

How important is “image quality” to you? (Rate using a scale of 1-10)
Very important, I'm looking to get the best image quality for the money

Do you care for manual controls?
Yes, I would be mostly using the camera in either manual or aperture/shutter priority settings

General Usage

What will you generally use the camera for?
Taking pictures for class as well as general shooting of cars, landscape, etc. It would be an all-around camera.

Will you be making big prints of your photos or not?
Not big prints, but I work with photoshop.

Will you be shooting a lot of indoor photos or low light photos?
Like mentioned above, it will be an all-around camera, so I'm sure I would want to take shots like this.

Will you be shooting sports and/or action photos?
I would like to be able to shoot fast moving objects if the opportunity arises.

Miscellaneous

Are there particular brands you like or hate?
After looking around, I'm not very partial to any brand, but I feel some of the Canons in this price range feel "cheap".

Are there particular models you already have in mind?
I was considering the following, but I'd like to hear your suggestions as well:
Nikon D40 (w/ kit lens):
http://www.adorama.com/INKD40KR.html

Olympus E-410 (w/ two kit lenses):
http://www.butterflyphoto.com/prodinfo.pht...mp;ref=nextopia

Canon Rebel XS (w/ kit lens):
http://www.butterflyphoto.com/prodinfo.pht...mp;ref=nextopia

Sony Alpha A200 (w/ kit lens):
http://butterflyphoto.com/prodinfo.phtml?id=2078

Do you need any of the following special features? (Wide Angle, Image Stabilization, Weatherproof, Hotshoe, Rotating LCD)
I would like the ability to have image stabilization, as well as weatherproof. Anything that would help it be more future-proof would be nice.

I'd like to hear your suggestions and ideas. Please help a beginner photographer get started on the right track. :)

-Matt

[TheWengler]

Maybe the D40. You aren't going to get any bells and whistles for $450.

[youredd]

I just got this Canon PowerShot G10, it works great all the time, and it's on sale for only $399 using the code 1?ZRX6HH4G2ZW3

[GoneTomorrow]

I just got this Canon PowerShot G10 (http://www.dealstudio.com/deallink.php?deal_id=157252&ru=290), it works great all the time, and it's on sale for only $399 using the code 1?ZRX6HH4G2ZW3

He/she isn't looking for a point-and-shoot, and $400 is better spent towards a DSLR anyway (unless you're really looking for an advanced p & s)

My vote goes to the Canon XS, but the D40 is a great choice as well and can be had for less.

[Turn]

I'd choose the Canon XS...

unless you want to shell out on lenses..

[rdump]

I settled on a used D40 w/ kit lens. But I had to settle -for- a D40X, since there were no used D40s available locally.

The D40X is very nice. Doesn't weigh much more than my Nikon FE (1981 vintage). It does feel less dense than the FE, but not so I much I worry about breaking anything.

The D40X IQ is good with the kit lens. I could boost it with a more expensive lens than the kit, but I'm also leaning towards the 18-200 VR for greater flexibility without swapping lenses.

It's fun to make mistakes on white balance. Fluorescent sunrises tend to produce 'wow' moments.

[GotToyota?]

Yeah I want something that has a good kit lens, since I won't be upgrading lenses for quite awhile. I'm appreciating your comments so far.

My only concern about the D40 is that it's an older camera now and has old technology.

[speaklightly]

B&H has the Pentax K2000 at $599 and that includes the kit lens and an external flash.

Sarah Joyce

[GoneTomorrow]

Yeah I want something that has a good kit lens, since I won't be upgrading lenses for quite awhile. I'm appreciating your comments so far.

My only concern about the D40 is that it's an older camera now and has old technology.

I wouldn't say that it's so old that it's no longer a great camera. And as far kit lenses are concerned, the XS comes with a very decent kit lens, unlike previous Rebel models.

[GotToyota?]

I also like the huge picture size the XS provides, I'll see if I can look around at a few shops and hold the XS.

[erichlund]

Frankly, with only $450, you are going to have to search for a sale. For instance, even if you go discount, at Costco, a D40 comes in a kit with 18-55VR, 55-200VR and a 2GB memory card for $599 (I didn't read the free memory card offer, so that's iffy). You can give up the VR for $50, but I don't recommend that.

For Canon, they have the Canon Rebel XS for $549 with the 18-55is and a 75-300 (not stabilized), plus the same free memory card offer. Yes, that's sort of backwards, the longer lens should be the one that's stabilized, but that's what they offer.

Looks like you can bet a better deal through B&H. The XS is $499 for the same deal, and about $475 for just the 18-55. Memory card extra. Canon listed prices are accurate.

The D40 kit (18-55 and 55-200 with VR on both) is $509, but you will have to buy a memory card. With Nikons you have to put it in the cart to get their actual price, which is lower than their published price. Nikon restricts published prices on their authorized dealers. For instance, if you look at the D700 body, B&H publish $2999.99 with a $300 instant rebate, but when you put it in the cart, it's a little over $2300.

[GotToyota?]

I think I've decided to get the D40. My buddy is getting a D90 so we can swap lenses which is always nice.

[Rooz]

The D40 kit (18-55 and 55-200 with VR on both) is $509, but you will have to buy a memory card.

this is the ne to get, make sure you get he VR verson of both lens'.

[erichlund]

BTW: The B&H website (very reputable dealer) is linked here (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/).

[GotToyota?]

What do you guys think of the Sony Alpha A100? I can get it from Adorama for $399 shipped brand new.

[Rooz]

its complete rubbish. imo the only sony worth its weight is the a700.

[GotToyota?]

its complete rubbish. imo the only sony worth its weight is the a700.

Haha, thanks for the feedback.

[speaklightly]

Well Mr. Got Toyota-

What is your final decision??

Sarah Joyce

[GotToyota?]

I'm thinking the refurbished D40 from Adorama, but not fully sure yet. As mentioned before, I like the idea of swapping lenses every once in awhile with my buddy who will be getting a D90.

-Matt

[raven15]

Now I'm biased because that's what I have, but I'd be after an Olympus E-420 with kit lens for $390 at Amazon. It offers a whole lot more camera than a D40 for a lot less money. Or a Canon XS for $465 with IS lens at amazon (wow! that's cheap! maybe that one). Or pretty much any new camera but a D40. The D40 is looking kind of old for $500 in my opinion. It would work, but still...

OK, I take that back, the D40 is just $410 at amazon, which isn't bad. But that doesn't change the fact that the E-420 is better in almost every respect for less money. Or the XS is more or less all that plus an IS lens for barely more.

[GotToyota?]

Yeah I am considering the E-420 also, seems like a great deal.

[speaklightly]

Mr. Got Toyota-

The Olympus E-420 is priced well, but it only has digital stabilization that used to be utilized on camcorders. Yes, the E-420 is a good camera, but please be sure you know what you are getting. The Canon XS, like the Sony A-200 is also well priced, but some of the features of the XSi have been stripped away to create the XS.

Sarah Joyce

[GotToyota?]

Yeah I saw that after looking around online, so I think I'll just stick with the D40 since Amazon is selling it now for $409 shipped.

[GotToyota?]

After looking at the Canon XS at Best Buy today, I must say it feels alot better than the other Canons I have held. I might go with this one since I really liked the way it worked and the easiness of setting adjustments.

[GoneTomorrow]

After looking at the Canon XS at Best Buy today, I must say it feels alot better than the other Canons I have held. I might go with this one since I really liked the way it worked and the easiness of setting adjustments.

Good choice ;)

[speaklightly]

Mr. Got Toyota-

How a camera feels in your hands is very important. If you received good vibes from the Canon XS, I would surely give it some very serious consideration. It is very easy to use and produces consistently good images.

Sarah Joyce

[Spookonthe8ball]

I agree the XS would be a good choice. Any modern Canon lens will work on it and you can upgrade as your need grows. Their line of consumer priced lens such as the 55-250 IS is hard to argue with. The 3rd party lens assortment is also very good if you would like a Sigma, Tamron, Tokina ect :)
Spook

[GotToyota?]

http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-10-2MP-Digital-18-55mm-3-5-5-6G/dp/B0012OGF6Q/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1229544027&sr=8-1

Amazon is selling the D60 for $485, is this a good deal?

[speaklightly]

Hi Mr. Got Toyota-

The Olympus E-420 and the ZD 14-42mm (28mm to 84mm in 35mm terms) is a good deal. I own the camera+kit lens and like them a lot. However, in all fairness you should be aware that the E-420 does not have in the camera body IS, nor does the kit lens have IS.

The Olympus E-520 does have in body IS

The lack of IS is not a factor to me, but I wamted to make sure you were aware. Here is an E-420 sample photo.

Sarah Joyce

[GotToyota?]

I've narrowed it down to these three:

D40 w/ two lenses
http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-3-5-5-6G-55-200mm-4-5-5-6G-Zoom-Nikkor/dp/B000SDPMEI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1229565075&sr=1-2

D60 w/ kit lens:
http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-10-2MP-Digital-18-55mm-3-5-5-6G/dp/B0012OGF6Q/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1229544027&sr=8-1

Canon Rebel XS w/ kit lens:
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-10-1MP-Digital-18-55mm-3-5-5-6/dp/B001CBKJGG/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1229577844&sr=8-1

[raven15]

If it is still 2008 (not 2006), I have still not thought of a longer list of reasons to get an underspec'ed D40 with an inferior, non-VR lens. Even less if you are still wondering in 2009. My list of reasons for the D60 is pretty slim too, but I admit I haven't compared it to the XS (the XSi being much preferable to me).

[GotToyota?]

I have narrowed it down to the following two:

Nikon D40X (w/ kit lens,refurbished from Cameta Camera, 1 year warranty) - $389
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000NOEDGK/ref=pd_luc_mri?_encoding=UTF8&m=A36DL6WLK2RE7O&v=glance

Sony Alpha A100 (w/ kit lens, brand new) - $399
http://www.adorama.com/ISODSLRA100K.html

Which should I go with? I am also considering the Olympus E-410 kit here: http://www.adorama.com/IOME410K2.html

-Matt

[speaklightly]

Just a personal opinion, but I think that there might be better value in the Olympus E-410 kit. You might be wondering why? Its because the quality of the lenses included in the E-410 kit are higher quality lenses. The Zuiko 14-42mm and the Zuiko 40-150mm lenses let you cover from 28mm to 300mm in 35mm terms. Here is a sample photo taken with the ZD 40-150mm lens and the E-410 DSLR camera.

Sarah Joyce

[GotToyota?]

I do like how it includes two lenses, the only thing I don't like is lens availability for when I decide to buy another lens.

[speaklightly]

Perhaps I am old fashioned, but I consider that the two lenses included in the kit pretty well fill the bill quite well for me. In the 7 years that I have own Olympus DSLR cameras, I have only added one lens: the ZD 50mm F 2.0 macro lens. And that lens gets very light duty.

But the it is all a personal choice. You could add an extreme wide wide angle lens, if that pleases you, for example, but I have never felt that need. What lenses do you have in mind?

Sarah Joyce

[GotToyota?]

Well this is my first DSLR, so the kit lenses would certainly fit the bill for quite awhile, I'm just afraid of the moment I do decide I want something else and choices are limited.

-Matt

[mattdm]

Well this is my first DSLR, so the kit lenses would certainly fit the bill for quite awhile, I'm just afraid of the moment I do decide I want something else and choices are limited.


We call that moment "the moment you realize what a money-sucking hobby you've chosen". :)

[GotToyota?]

We call that moment "the moment you realize what a money-sucking hobby you've chosen". :)

I realized it back when I started doing film with my old Canon Rebel G. :p

[GoneTomorrow]

Well this is my first DSLR, so the kit lenses would certainly fit the bill for quite awhile, I'm just afraid of the moment I do decide I want something else and choices are limited.

-Matt

Yes, which is why you should go for the XSi or XS. Canon has quite a large and varied lens line up, and that's not including all the third-party offerings. Oh, and the kit lens "fit the bill" for me for all of month, because after I saw what others here were achieving with other lenses, I was collecting more lenses very soon after.

[raven15]

Yes, which is why you should go for the XSi or XS. Canon has quite a large and varied lens line up, and that's not including all the third-party offerings. Oh, and the kit lens "fit the bill" for me for all of month, because after I saw what others here were achieving with other lenses, I was collecting more lenses very soon after.

That was my reason for going Oly. Examples:

Oly 14-54mm f/2.8-3.5, weather sealed, great construction, $400
Canon 17-50 f/2.8, cheap plastic construction, $900

Canon 70-200mm f/4 IS, very nice, $1050, Canon 1.4 teleconverter $400, reduces aperture and quality
Olympus 50-200mm f/2.8-3.5, very nice, $950 (same zoom range as 70-200 plus teleconverter)

Etc., up and down the lens lineup.
With a few exceptions (namely lack of fast primes, and a few lenses that are slow to focus) the Oly line is more affordable, smaller, and optically better. Lenses were my reason not to go with Canon.

Though, any lenses are not exactly cheap.

[SpecialK]

There is a general misconception that plastic is necessarily bad, and cheap. It's not. It is dimensionally stable, and easy to tool.

The Canon 17-50 has a constant aperture - the Oly does not. That is the main price factor. Check out any of the Olympus constant-aperture lens choices - if you think Canon is way more expensive you might be in for a surprise.