Holiday/hiking compact camera - LX3, G10?

[441211]

Hello,

*skip to the end for summary/questionnaire answers!*

I'm a total beginner looking to buy his first digital camera, so I could use some advice. The best would probably be if I explained my needs...

90% of the pictures I take (if not 99%) are pictures of holidays or hiking trips - this usually means taking pictures during the day (sometimes dusk), mostly of landscapes, mountains, forests, and sometimes towns and cities. I expect that most of the time, I will simply be pressing the shoot button and I will want the camera to do the best possible job. Also, I don't want a DSLR because lugging a huge camera and extra lenses around is too much of a hassle (for me) when hiking. I'll often want to take out the camera, take a snap, and put it back. Given these constraints, my main concern is maximising the image quality.

Having said that, I like knowing how my tools work (I've read guides and understand the very basics in theory, but certainly have no experience). So it would be nice to have a camera which allows you to experiment with different exposure settings so that I can 'play around', get a feel for things, and maybe be able to make a better informed choice next time around :)

It seems to me the Canon G10 and the Panasonic LX3 would fit these needs nicely (customisable with excellent image quality *for a compact*). Do you agree? Does one have an advantage over the other when letting the camera make the choices in automatic mode? (ie. is one better as a simple point and shoot?) Is one easier for a beginner to learn on than the other? I'm quite fixed on these two cameras, but I'll listen if somebody has a good reason to suggest another one.

Finally, let me say money is not really an issue - I've been saying I will buy one for years, so now that the time has come, I can fork out a bit more to get 'the best' for my needs.

Thanks for your time in reading this rather long post!

---------------
Questionnaire:
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Budget - Any (say $500)
Size - Any "compact" size. No DSLR.
Megapixels - Say 10 megapixels and above.
Zoom - Standard (of course, more is better).
Image quality - This is the most important criterium (within constraints of a compact).
Manual controls - I want a camera which does the best possible job in automatic mode, but manual controls are good because I'd like to have something to learn on.

General Usage

* What will you generally use the camera for?
Mostly taking pictures during the day on hiking trips (eg. landscapes, mountains), holidays (usually nature photos, sometimes towns/cities).

* Will you be making big prints of your photos or not?
No.

* Will you be shooting a lot of indoor photos or low light photos?
Indoors, no (and if I do I don't normally care about their quality).
Outdoors at night, occasionally yes. (for example, skylines of big cities at night).

Will you be shooting sports and/or action photos?
No.

Miscellaneous

Are there particular brands you like or hate?
Don't really mind.

Are there particular models you already have in mind?
Yes, the Panasonic LX3 and the Canon G10.

(If applicable) Do you need any of the following special features? (Wide Angle, Image Stabilization, Weatherproof, Hotshoe, Rotating LCD)
Being a beginner, I'm not sure how useful these are in practice - but sounds like wide angle and image stabilization are a definitely plusses.


All right, thanks for reading this rather long post!

Gregory

[S_p_i_d_e_r]

If you want manual modes - LX3. If you are ready to use full auto camera (but wit very good picture quality) - TZ5.

[KCook]

Hellz bellz, with a $500 budget I'd get two compacts! A Canon SX110 IS to learn manual controls. Plus a Panasonic FS5 for hiking (light and rugged). Still have a good $100 left over!!!

too practical Kelly

[S_p_i_d_e_r]

Canon SX110 IS to learn manual controls.

SX110 lens doesn't offer any true wide-angle capability (starts from 36mm).

[tizeye]

While arguably the LX3 takes superior photos over a broader range than the G10, a major concern would be the max focal length of the 60mm. That is the absolute shortest of any P&S by a wide margin. While you would want a wide angle for landscapes as you are hiking, you also would want a telephoto of at least 110 or higher for animals along your hike. Unfortunately, even that is a compromise as most 28 wide angles top out around 115, while those with the 'default' 35 got to 140 and higher, so it is a matter of which you place the priority on.

As a beginner, are you ready for an advanced camera with manual modes? If not, save money, with something to learn on that gives decent results. Stick with Panasonic or Canon, and perhaps Sony as they tend to consistently have top tier products.

Finally, what do other hikers use? My hobby is bicycling, and yes I have taken my DSLR on long rides - with a rack on the back. Last Christmas I bought my wife a little Canon elph subcompact SD850 with the intention of throwing it in my jersey pouch for rides, but she like my DSLR so much she made me return it. Oh the best laid plans.

[David Metsky]

A 110mm lens isn't really enough for wildlife while hiking, but I think the 60mm of the LX3 would be a serious limitation for a hiking camera. I've carried a number of P&S cameras while hiking, and I think a more "normal" zoom range is definitely more useful for framing shots, bringing people into the scene, and getting closer to scenery when needed. The G10 is a fine camera, but personally I think it's overkill and not really worth it unless you plan on shooting RAW and using the manual controls. As a P&S, it's way overkill.

I use a Canon SD800 for most of my hiking. If I were looking at a bigger zoom the Canon SD890 or Panasonic TZ5 would be high on my list.

[441211]

Thank you all for your thougtful comments. My reasoning was that getting a camera with manual controls would help me learn more, which is why I was opting for these expensive models. Am I correct in understanding, then, that if in the end I end up just pointing and clicking, then cheaper cameras would produce images of the same quality as these two cameras?

[David Metsky]

Not the same quality, but pretty darn close. The big advantage of the LX3 would be better quality in low light (even in full Auto mode) but I don't think it compensates for the lack of zoom. The advantage of the G10 would be that it has really great set of functions and a larger CCD, but the 15 MP images may pretty much waste that advantage.

I hike a lot, and unless you are willing to carry a DSLR I don't think any of the P&S cameras, even these two, offer much advantage in the low light situations you'll encounter on the trail. A minipod is essential for low light shooting on the trail with a P&S.

Manual controls are a good idea, although I rarely use them on the trail. Something like a Canon A720 was an ideal trail camera, IMO. Unfortunately, they discontinued that and the replacement A2000 doesn't have manual controls. You could bump up to a compact ultrazoom like the SX110 (with manual controls) or TZ5 (without) for more versatility.

The key for me while hiking is always having the camera handy. I use an ultrazoom so the camera is always attached to my sternum strap and available for use.

[Turn]

I'd pick the LX3 any day

but it only going to 60mm is going to spank you if you need the zoom

sigh :(

[KCook]

advantage in the low light situations you'll encounter on the trail. Err, methinks this assumes said trails in a deep forest? Hiking where I live, in the blazing desert, low light is never a concern! Unless you are in the bottom of one of the slot canyons, which are quite remote.

dry heat Kelly

[441211]

Most of my hikes are indeed in broad daylight, but forest trails are nice too :)

Given the comments here I was considering another option... what about a second hand or refurbished G9? They seem to go for $250-$300 nowadays which puts them in the same price range as some of the models suggested here. OK, the lens is not as wide (at this point I do not yet realise how much of a limitation this is), but telephoto is decent, and picture quality is likely to be more or less the same as the G10.

[David Metsky]

Given the comments here I was considering another option... what about a second hand or refurbished G9?
Honestly, unless you are planning on using the full range of control on the G9 and shoot in RAW I don't think you'll see much difference between the G9 and an A720 or an A650. The bigger CCD won't do much for you in low light; it's just not that big an improvement.

As you can tell, I haven't been too impressed with the G-series cameras.

[Turn]

Honestly, unless you are planning on using the full range of control on the G9 and shoot in RAW I don't think you'll see much difference between the G9 and an A720 or an A650. The bigger CCD won't do much for you in low light; it's just not that big an improvement.

As you can tell, I haven't been too impressed with the G-series cameras.

I agree with this guy

the G series simply isn't worth investing into

[S_p_i_d_e_r]

the G series simply isn't worth investing into

G series finished with a G6. Next incarnations are pathetic... :(

[rpriedhorsky]

90% of the pictures I take (if not 99%) are pictures of holidays or hiking trips - this usually means taking pictures during the day (sometimes dusk), mostly of landscapes, mountains, forests, and sometimes towns and cities. I expect that most of the time, I will simply be pressing the shoot button and I will want the camera to do the best possible job. Also, I don't want a DSLR because lugging a huge camera and extra lenses around is too much of a hassle (for me) when hiking. I'll often want to take out the camera, take a snap, and put it back. Given these constraints, my main concern is maximising the image quality.

Gregory,

Not sure if you've made your choice yet, but here's some thoughts.

1. It's probably worth your while to consider the DSLR route, since you can afford it; the image quality will be much better. If I read you correctly, the reason for you NOT to buy a DSLR would be weight and bulk, not cost; so check out how DSLR compares to smaller cameras. Go to a local camera store and compare the heft of various units, from tiny subcompact to DSLR.

2. That said, consider the Canon A590. I've taken a previous model in this line hiking for several years (the A530) and been very happy with the results. See http://reidster.net/trips/ for examples; all of the photos credited to me in 2006-2008 trips were the A530, and the 2008 photos credited to Erin were taken on an A570.

It's far under your budget ($150?), but it's also small and lightweight. I carry it in a little case on my backpack strap, and it's super nice to have it so easily accessible.

Don't get the A1000 or A2000, the "replacements" for this camera, which are not nearly as nice.

3. Panorama mode is lots of fun for the outdoors. A trick: shoot the individual frames in portrait, not landscape, for better coverage. I use software called Hugin to put the frames together, to very nice effect (examples down the link above); I believe it's more capable than the bundled Canon software, but I haven't used the latter.

3. Wide-angle is important for landscapes. My A530 (and the A590) only go out to 36mm, which is often not enough. I find myself occasionally shooting small panoramas to make up for the lack of wide angle, which is kind of lame.

On the other hand, this capability does allow you to shoot super-wide-angle (of static subjects) without an extra lens, at the cost of post-processing labor.

5. Also consider the Canon SX10 IS and Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ28, which have wide-angle (28mm) and also a very long zoom.

Good luck,

Reid

[hikerpaul]

For general hiking I love my pentax w20, and understand the w60 is even better.

It is waterproof, dustproof and shock resistant, and can even take pictures underwater, and very easy to use

not very good for low light shots but would work for night lights

I'm looking to upgrade to a camera (probably slr with a larger sensor for low light) but I carry my pentax w20 everywhere with me

I'd google pentax w60 review to check out the review.

[speaklightly]

Paul-

The Pentax W-60 is rated by most users as excellent. No, it is not a low light level camera, but it does just what it was designed to do quite well.

Sarah Joyce

[trikster2]

I agree with this guy

the G series simply isn't worth investing into

Some people like the G10:
http://www.bythom.com/compactchallenge.htm

Ken Rockwell likes the SD880 for landscapes:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/compacts/sd880.htm

I find program mode on a P&S a mixed bag. Yes it's nice to have control, but that control pales in comparison to what's available on a DSLR.

For example you may have the option to vary the aperture, but then the actual range of available aperture is incredibly small compared to a DSLR.

The G10 and LX3 will have a hard time fitting in many pockets. Once you leave the pocket you might as well get a small DSLR. Something such as the Nikon D40 is very small, will fit your budget, but will give you a lot more to play with regarding learning the craft.