Family camera...looking at SX110 or SD850...any thoughts? [Archive]

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SarahD

11-30-2008, 04:11 AM

I have a couple of friends who have the SD850 and absolutely love it so I was leaning towards that...I like the smaller size. But then I saw the SX110 in store ads today and was impressed by the much higher zoom & 3 inch screen. Does anyone know how the battery life compares on these two cameras? ANY input would be great!

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Budget

* What budget have you allocated for buying this camera? $300

Size

* What size camera are you looking for? Or does size not matter at all to you? I currently have an Canon A610 which I LOVED (loved the rotating screen...used it all the time!) but I believe my 1 year old son short circuited. I caught him *chewing* on the side of my camera and now it won't even power on. So I don't mind that size or smaller

Features

How many megapixels will suffice for you? 8

* What optical zoom will you need? (None, Standard = 3x-4x, Ultrazoom = 10x-12x, Other - Specify) I love zoom and need as much as I can get

* How important is “image quality” to you? (Rate using a scale of 1-10) Well I'm not a camera pro--just your everyday mom--so I'm sure my view of image quality is nothing like what yours would be. :) I like a nice crisp photo.

Do you care for manual controls? not so important. I used the AUTO setting most of the time on my A610

General Usage

* What will you generally use the camera for? kids, trips, family stuff

* Will you be making big prints of your photos or not? not too much...I usually just order 4x6 or 5x7

Will you be shooting a lot of indoor photos or low light photos? indoor and only some low light photos

Will you be shooting sports and/or action photos? some

Miscellaneous

Are there particular brands you like or hate? I've always had Canon cameras and been happy with them but am open to whatever

David Metsky

11-30-2008, 05:54 AM

You're comparing apples and oranges here. These two cameras are in very different classes. The SD850 is a discontinued ultracompact pure P&S, no manual controls but an optical viewfinder. The SX110 is a compact ultrazoom with full manual controls but no optical viewfinder and a wider LCD. If you like the bigger LCD and don't care about the optical viewfinder, look at the SD880 instead, at least then you'll be a bit closer in your comparison.

Only you can decided which is right for you. Both are good cameras.

Rachel Archer

11-30-2008, 06:17 AM

Hi Sarah! Well I'm no expert either (in fact it was just recently that I was here asking for advice) but in the spirit of things, here's what I think. :D

The SX110 IS's MSRP (manafacturer's suggested retail price) was $249.99 when it came out new. The SD850 IS's MSRP was $399.99 ($400). So there's already a relatively large $150 price difference between these two models, and I have to believe that this counts for something. A higher-end model is typically better built, better designed, delivering better photographs, sturdier and meant to last a fair bit longer than a much cheaper model is.

The SX110 IS is also not a compact camera - it is big and by no means designed for pockets or such - you'll need a bag with a shoulder strap for it. The SD850 IS on the other hand, is an aptly named ELPH - definitely compact and perfect for any pocket.

I'm a fan of zoom too, so I understand where you're coming from. The SX110 IS does offer 10x zoom capability, vs the SD850 IS's 4x zoom - but - it appears to only be any good with outdoor shots, and utterly sucky in what I would deem regular-to-good indoor light, and also in low light situations. I would recommend reading this blog that I found:

http://digicamtech.blogspot.com/2008/10/canon-sx110is-review-10x-zoom-lens.html

The writer tests the zoom functionality indoors for the SX110 IS with some shots...explains why there are problems. Basically at low ISO settings (and they didn't even use the lowest, they used ISO 400), the image is completely unusable and blurry when using the SX110 IS's zoom indoors. It wasn't until the person cranked the ISO all the way up to 1600 that the blur went away, but then of course there was so much noise that the image was still crap. If you have to use such a noise-ridden high ISO, there's no point in taking the picture.

Then (quite handily for our purposes) they happened to pull out their SD850 IS and comparatively demonstrate its zoom functions. The result was that the photo taken by the SD850 IS indoors - even at full 4x zoom - is much cleaner and nicer. Whereas the SX110 IS indoors, is crummy with zoom from the get-go. Its "10x zoom" sounds nice, but doesn't work out that way in real life. The SD850 IS does a better job all-round with its 4x zoom. So I couldn't possibly recommend the SX110 IS to you on its 'zoominess' unless you're only gonna use it outside in the daytime. On sunny days. :o

The SD850 IS is pretty much universally beloved with point-and-shoot camera users (& a good number of semi-professional people too), which says a lot in my opinion. You don't often find such consistent favour across so many various websites, from official reviews to user feedback. Many cameras have a very mixed bag of love it/hate it ratings. Not the SD850 IS. Compact, metal, higher-end, great images, great movie quality (just look at the sample in the review here on DCResource), better all-round than the SX110. And...a bargain price if you buy it now from the right place (see below).

I myself just bought an SD850 IS (refurbished, it isn't available new anymore) this past Friday from Canon Canada's eStore (estore.canon.ca). They are offering it right now for $139.99 Canadian, which is about $113 USD. That is a steal of a deal for a camera that only a year ago was selling for $400 USD (nearly $500 Canadian).

I recommend getting the SD850 IS. :) Your friends who have it are wise to love it. Please check out Jeff's review of it:

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/canon/powershot_sd850-review/

...the Flickr page for this model is also useful - they have galleries there of photos taken by the SD850 IS (Interesting, portraits, macro, night, landscapes, action, and recent) that all nicely demonstrate what it can do:

http://www.flickr.com/cameras/canon/powershot_sd850_is/

...and I think you'll agree that there's no question, it's the way to go - at least, compared to the SX110 (for sure). Either way, I hope this was of some help to you and that whatever you decide, you have lots of fun with your new camera. Only you know what will make you happy. If possible, get ahold of both cameras first too and test them out in person. *hugs*

Rachel :)

AndyfromVA

11-30-2008, 06:34 AM

The SX110 IS's MSRP (manafacturer's suggested retail price) was $249.99 when it came out new. The SD850 IS's MSRP was $399.99 ($400). So there's already a relatively large $150 price difference between these two models, and I have to believe that this counts for something.

Sorry, I don't agree, especially in this case where the SD850is was released a year and 1/2 earlier than the SX110is. As David Metsky said, you're attempting to compare apples and oranges.

when using the SX110 IS's zoom indoors.
Most people would never use a long zoom indoors.

Right now in the US you can purchase the SX110is for under $200.
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Powershot-SX110IS-Stabilized-Black/dp/B001EQ4C8U

The cheapest price I've found for a new SD850is, from a reputable online dealer, is $279. http://www.buydig.com/shop/product.aspx?omid=103&ref=froogle&utm_source=Froogle&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=CNPSSD850&sku=CNPSSD850

KCook

11-30-2008, 07:37 AM

I currently have an Canon A610 which I LOVED (loved the rotating screen...used it all the time!) Buydig is listing the old Canon A630 for $189. Condition: Brand new, USA Warranty. That gets you the rotating screen. But lacks big LCD or optical IS.
* What will you generally use the camera for? kids, trips, family stuff Which is exactly what your garden variety compact with 3X zoom was designed for. The super zoom need is typically for outdoor sports and/or wildlife. Not that a honking big zoom isn't fun as a toy, just saying ...
I've always had Canon cameras and been happy with them but am open to whatever The Sony W-series competes pretty well with the Canon SD-series. Worth a look if you prefer an ultracompact.
The SD850 is a discontinued ultracompact pure P&S, no manual controls but an optical viewfinder. The SX110 is a compact ultrazoom with full manual controls but no optical viewfinder and a wider LCD Spot on. It's rather odd to find these two cameras on the same shopping list.
A higher-end model is typically better built, better designed, delivering better photographs, sturdier and meant to last a fair bit longer than a much cheaper model is That generalization works only if the "cheaper model" is at the low end of the price range. Which the Canon SX110 is not, it's a mid-range model. Slap the generalization against the A470 instead. A lot of the price difference is that the SD850 has a metal body, denser electronics inside, and built in more expensive times (for manufacturing). The poly body of the SX110 is servicable, will take a beating and will not fall apart anytime soon. The electronics inside the SX110 may not be so squeezed, but they do have the benefit of a couple of years more development. Electronics are always getting better, not worse. Short version: you can argue that the SD850 has superior materials, but not superior capability.
If you have to use such a noise-ridden high ISO, there's no point in taking the picture. That is a personal call. If you expect salon quality results, then true. But simple snapshots are not all that demanding. I do use ISO 1600 with my compact in low light when needed. A shot with 75% quality is still better than no shot at all. Question: did that reviewer also make his low light 10X zoom trials with other cameras than the SX110? Methinks you are beating up on the SX110 for simply being what it is, a superzoom.

Summary: Apples and oranges was right. But that doesn't mean better and worse. Just different capabilities.

wude Kelly

pas49ras

11-30-2008, 08:18 AM

Like others said...these are not the same class of camera. As far a battery life ,the SD 850 uses a proprietary battery which is rated for 350 shots..not bad but heavy flash ues will lower that number somewhat. They also cost about 35 dollars for a spare (a spare battery is a must have). The SX110 uses AA batteries but only holds 2. This leads to longer flash recycle time than most cameras using a proprietary battery. That said, AA'S are easy to come by and have a spare set is a no brainier. I would recommend a set of Sanyo Eneloops(check Amazon.com for good buys on sets with chargers) The SD850 has been replaced by the SD880 with a 3" screen but it up to you..do you want smaller size camera and 4x zoom or bigger camera and 10x zoom. Also, the SD880 has a slightly wider angle lens 28mm vs 36mm on the SX-110) which is nice for indoor shots.

Rachel Archer

11-30-2008, 08:33 AM

Dear Andy,

I don't understand - you don't agree with what? Regardless of the year-plus between release dates (which isn't very long), the MSRP's I quoted are accurate. When it was first released, the SD850 IS was priced by Canon at $150 more than what the SX110 IS was priced at by Canon when it was first released.

There's another point of difference - the SX110 IS uses two AA-batteries (which add to the camera's weight and are a typical sign of a cheaper camera), and the SD850 IS uses a rechargable Canon-proprietary battery. If you like AA-batteries, that's fine. For myself, I wouldn't want a camera that runs on AA's.

I spoke to the zoom too because Sarah said she wanted a lot of zoom, and since many camera-noobs would be drawn in by the glitz of a higher number & perhaps not realize the zoom isn't all it's cracked up to be, it was worth discussing. It's thanks to David Metsky's posts that I'm now aware of plenty that never would have occurred to me on my own...for example, like how higher megapixel numbers past a certain point aren't necessarily a good thing for a compact camera with a small sensor. (I owe you, David hon! *hugs* :) )

As to the price, if you want to get the SD850 IS new for $279 USD as Andy mentioned above (i.e. $345 Canadian), you can do so (though new ones will over time be increasingly hard to come by from non-eBay sources etc)...but it's currently available directly from Canon Canada, refurbished, for $112 USD ($139 Canadian)...that's a pretty big difference.

Just under $300 USD new, or just over $100 USD refurbished.

The price I quoted from Canon Canada is accurate for the refurbished SD850 IS, I never said it was retail-new. However Canon has assured me that the refurbished models in question are not previously used cameras, and are like new (basically the only difference according to them is that they come in a plain box, and without a memory card).

There's evidently a market for both models, and KCook makes some insightful points in the post above. Some people don't want a compact camera...some prefer AA-batteries, or feel a slightly larger LCD or higher zoom is very important to them. (By the way, KCook, yes the SD850 IS shot from that reviewer was taken from the same spot, in the same light, at 4x zoom, the fullest zoom that camera has, for comparison. I would also argue that the SX110 IS isn't as capable as the SD850 IS...they both have the same DIGIC III technology, the LCD is 230,000 pixels on both - though with an extra half inch on the SX110 IS's LCD, that number of pixels is being spread thinner over more space. I've seen no evidence (yet) of any appreciable advancement in the electronics inside the SX110 IS vs the SD850 IS, though I concede the point in general about development...whereas the SD850 IS definitely has better materials and most importantly, many consistently pleased users at various skill levels over the course of the last year-plus.)

It's up to you Sarah. If you really want something with superzoom, there are several models out there with 20x zoom that would be a better call in the long run (in my opinion) than the SX110 IS - the more expensive SX10 IS, for one. But I recommend the refurbished SD850 IS from Canon Canada for you. Your friends love it after all, and with good reason. :) And at just over $100 USD for a camera that was going for nearly $500 USD the year before (albeit new vs refurbished), it's a damned good deal.

Please do check out the Flickr link I gave you before, and the DCResource review...and before buying, if you can ask your friends to let you test out their SD850 IS in person (as well as go to the store and test out the SX110 IS in person), you'll be that much more informed. Hope it all works out. *hugs*

Rachel :)

P.S. Pas49ras...very well said, your post popped up just as I was finishing previewing this. It's all about what features matter to you more, Sarah, Pas49ras said it well.

Re: the SD880 IS...the only mark I have against that camera is that it records video to Quicktime's MOV format, using the H.264 codec. But that's just my personal taste. Apart from that, yes...the SD880 IS has DIGIC 4, a 3-inch LCD, and the wide-angle lens that made the SD800 so popular. The price difference would make me think twice though, since the SD880 IS is newly out.

AndyfromVA

11-30-2008, 09:12 AM

David Metsky

11-30-2008, 12:46 PM

MSRPs can only really be compared for cameras released at the same time, since prices in the industry change fast, and usually go down. You also pay more for ultracompact because they generally are more expensive to build.

As was also said, AA are absolutely not the sign of a cheaper camera design. Some of the best cameras use AAs which offer flexibility and longer design life then proprietary batteries. It's a decision with many variables. I have one ultracompact with Li-Ion that I like for its small size, and one ultrazoom with AAs that I like for the ability to carry 3-4 sets of cheaper batteries that I can swap in all day when shooting ski festivals. Both have their place.