Sunset Portrait *Flash* help

[jsnail]

I tried posting in the strobist group on Flickr, but the responses were very sparse. I've also tried searching on Google with mixed results.

Basically, I'm very VERY new to flash photography. I've always relied on ambient light for my images so I feel like I'm starting all over again in using flash.

The reason I'm posting is because a good friend has asked me to shoot his engagement photos here at the beach. And, of course they want sunset shots. I want to basically underexpose for the sunset (to get the rich colors) but I want he and his fiancee to be properly exposed by the flash.

From what I understand, the flash power will directly affect the subject, not the background. The aperture will affect "everything" (so to speak). The shutter speed will affect the background. Is that correct?

In preparation, I've tried a few test shoots using other people. Using the above thinking, on ISO100, I tried setting my flash on both auto modes (manual seems a little out of my reach at the moment). I put the camera in M however and set the aperture at 4 or 5. I then played around with flash distance and shutter speed, however I was very underwhelmed with the results. I might just be wholly confusing myself. I really just don't know.

I pointed the camera at the background and fiddled with the exposure until it was just a tad underexposed. Then I locked in the exposure. I recomposed the picture and shot. Whole thing was underexposed. I then tried locking the background exposure and recomposing, then changing the shutter speed to get a slightly overexposed foreground (metering off the people). Still didn't work. I tried getting closer, and then moving back. All throw away shots. I'm SO frustrated!

Basically what I'm looking for here is the Idiot's guide to setting up a strongly backlit shot (as you would have with the sunset at your back). I'm looking for help regarding the following settings:

The flash will be on-camera with a diffuser.

flash: what mode should I set it to?
camera: what ISO? Should I use P, M, A, or S priority? HOW exactly do I meter properly? Any issues you see right away that I need to fix?

I have the D80 and SB-600.

HELP!:(

[TheWengler]

Well I'm not flash expert either, but I think you'd have to stop down to get the shutter speed below the max sync speed. However, I probably wouldn't try to shoot them in sunlight like that. The color from the sun won't match the color from your flash. It would be much easier to shoot them in the shade, on an overcast day, or right after the sun goes down.

[jsnail]

but even after the sun goes down I still need to underexpose the background, right? I think they really want the colors of the sun, and, the sun if possible. we're definitely staying till after the sun "sets", but I assume the technique would be the same. unfortunately I'm clueless as to what the technique is :)

[erichlund]

I'm pretty sure you're making this harder than it needs to be. Basically, you want fill flash. Set your exposure for the background and add flash to light your subject. Since it's a sunset, you want to ensure that you are not set on auto-white balance. Set white balance for normal daylight, and the sunset colors will come through fine.

IIRC, don't the Nikon flashes have a fill setting? You can see how much I use mine. ;) Still, the basic principle is correct: expose for the background and flash to light subject.

[accord2003]

I am not a flash expert either but I think Eric means setting the flash to TTL-BL.

What metering was the camera set at? Also I am not sure if it applies to TTL-BL, you might to try Flash Lock Value

anyhow, hope it helps.

[SpecialK]

Camera mode in M. Take a test shot or two without the flash, and the aperture at 5.6. Adjust shutter to get exposure for the background.
Set flash on manual and adjust power setting to get your guide number about 56. Divide flash guide number (hopefully 56 :-) by your aperture (5.6) to get the subject camera distance - in this case 10 feet. Have subjects stand 10 feet from the camera.

[K1W1]

Try reading this blog (http://nikonclspracticalguide.blogspot.com/2008/01/nikon-flash-two-separate-metering.html) and this blog (http://planetneil.com/tangents/flash-photography-techniques/).

[XaiLo]

First thing don't use CLS, and remove the diffuser and point the flash at your subject, meter for your background and then under expose to taste. Set flash to manual start off at 1/1 then back it off until flash is appropriate for the subject.

1/1 = full power
1/2 = half power
1/4 = one fourth power
1/8 = one eighth power

The important thing to remember is that flash power or output is cut in half with every division. If you're having trouble at 1/1 you are too far from the subject and light fall off is the issue. This should get you going in the right direction.

P.S. What you're attempting is creative lighting you can attempt to use exposure compensation but manual mode will be much simpler. after you get your lighting where you want it then you can reintroduce the diffuser but remember the lightsphere wastes power in the diffusion process and with nothing to bounce off of it's falling off all over the place. build "a better bounce card" do a google search for less than a buck at Walmart it will do exactly what you need it to do.

[achuang]

I'd have to disagree with Xailo here. I'd be using CLS since you've got a D80 and SB600. The results of your shots will be a lot better if you get the flash off camera. I don't know whether you have a light stand, but if you don't you can rope in a friend to hold the flash or just use the SB600 flash stand and put it on your tripod. Like everyone else mentioned, meter for the background in manual mode and underexpose however much you choose. Set the aperture around f5.6 or whatever gives you a good background exposure with flash power on say 1/4. If the subjects are over or underexposed you've got 2 options: move the subjects closer or further from the flash, or increase or decrease the flash power. You could adjust aperture to increase or decrease the exposure on the flash but it will change your background exposure too. Oh and don't use a diffuser if it's the lightsphere since you don't have anything to bounce off it's just wasting power.

[XaiLo]

Achuang, I don't think you are disagreeing with me, he stated a couple things pretty clearly 1)he was allowing the camera to control the flash 2)he would be using the flash on camera... while I agree off camera would be a better approach. There are a few basics he needs to come to grips with first. I was not refering to the wireless capabilities of CLS because that's not how he was using the flash system rather he was allowing CLS to control flash output. Since we agree that using the flash in manual mode would be preferable alls good :p

[Rooz]

option 1: try CLS first

1. set camera to manual mode.
2. meter off background to expose it right. no need to locks exposure cos you're in manual mode.
3. flash set to TTL BL
4. attach a white business card to the back of the sb600 head with a rubber band and have the flash head at around 45deg. this is what you will bounce off.
5. you may or may not need to also use TTL BL FP. this depends on your shutter speed. if you go over 1/250s, (unlikely), then you will need to use FP mode.

option 2: shoot in manual flash mode.

1. set camera to manual mode.
2. meter off background to expose it right. no need to locks exposure cos you're in manual mode.
3. set flash to manual mode.
4. attach a white business card to the back of the sb600 head with a rubber band and have the flash head at around 45deg. this is what you will bounce off.
5. start out at 1/2 power and work your way forward or back as xailo suggested.

nornally CLS with the TTL BL works fine but this will reall depend on the distance to the subject etc. give it a go first and then if it doesnt work shoot it in manual. this may sound complicated but with some practice and experience, you will soon start to recognise wht CLS can do and what you will need to shoot in manual mode.

personally, i prefer to use AWB and shoot RAW and then tweak it a little in PP if needed. the reason i do this is cos depending on the phase of the sunset, either the flash OR the ambient light will be your primary light source in the frame. so i dont bother trying to figure it out. leave it in auto and then switch the WB later. less time, less fiddling and much easier. this is also relevant for the iso setting. if its late inthe sunset and qite dark then you will have to bump up the iso a tad. if its still early and theres lots of light, you can maybe get away with iso 200 or 400.

[jsnail]

Okie doke...so...

WB set to daylight

Flash set to TTL-BL (fill)

Accord, I'll have to look up flash lock in the manual. I was using matrix metering.

Camera Mode=Manual, take test exposure without flash and expose to get the background the way I want. Aperture set to 5.6, adjust shutter as needed. SpecialK, I'll have to check the manual to figure out the guide number info.

*also, I thought my camera, set to M, would still only allow shutter speeds UP to 1/200, once the flash is turned on?

remove diffuser, replace with "bounce card". point flash directly at subject (no bounce card) or at 45 degree angle (with bounce card). Flash set to M, change ratio until the output is where I need it. If 1/1 doesn't work...I'm too far away. check the manual for FP.

ISO 200-400

Whew...does all that sound about right? You all gave FANTASTIC advice, thank you so much. I'm going out tomorrow to try more test shots!

[Visual Reality]

jsnail, use spot metering to meter off the sky, and like Rooz said don't worry about the WB.

The camera will allow higher shutter speeds than 1/200 if you enable Auto FP.

[jsnail]

thank you!

I actually googled FP and came up with this nice explanation:

http://nikonclspracticalguide.blogspot.com/2008/03/10-auto-fp-high-speed-sync-explained.html

[jsnail]

update: So even though I set the camera to FP and manual, I wasn't able to increase the shutter beyond 1/200. I had to change the aperture to alter the background. What did I do wrong?

Also, I actually did practice off-camera flash, and, as hard as it was having to hold AND shoot at the same time, I liked the results.

[achuang]

I can't explain how to use FP since my camera doesn't do it, I'll leave it to the others who use FP. Do you have a tripod? This would be the easiest way to have a lightstand for your flash. Saves you buying a dedicated light stand, or the hassle of asking a friend to hold the flash. Post the results when you get time. We'd like to see them.

[Rooz]

its in the CSM and its just an "on/off" selection.

[jsnail]

Here are a few. The first two needed a little more brightening up in pp. I don't have any gels so the light is too "white". I guess I should try to fix that in pp as well.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3172/3019659990_8562850b5a.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3275/3018831667_445ea884e9.jpg

I don't think I did much in pp to this, maybe contrast and levels.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3017/3019657118_eb3e6d62fb.jpg

****PS. Yes...the horizons need to be straightened, lol****

[Rooz]

excellent job. first one is the best imo. could have used a tad more power in the next couple. all can be very easily fixed in PP for the colour differences. tough skin tones to get right too. will be asy to make them too red.

good job babe-a-roo. :)

[jsnail]

Rooz, you're awesome :) Thank you! I'll keep practicing.

[TheWengler]

I think you did very well. The compositions are very nice as are the exposures. I'm not a big fan of the style in general because if the color tempertures don't match then the flashed subject looks pasted in. You have to give the couple what they want though!

[jcon]

I agree with rooz, the first is my choice as well, if it were me though, I might select the background and drop the exposure to darken it just a tad... after all, you want the main focuz to be on the couple, not the bright sun in the background!

Over all, very well done!

[toriaj]

These are great, they make me want to give it a try.
I wanted to see if a quick dose of white/color balance in PP would help even out the color casts. What do you think?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3172/3019659990_8562850b5a.jpg

edited version:
41784

[jsnail]

thank you everyone for your comments and suggestions!

toriaj, that looks SO much better. did you add a layer of color selectively over the couple or did you just select them and change the hue?

[Telecorder]

Of course, it helps quite a lot to have some assistance from Mother Nature showing off...

http://telecorder.smugmug.com/photos/180114699_wRuZA-L-1.jpg

A lot of times, it's better to wait until sun is at/just below the horizon for the most dramatic images but this compresses the time available for shooting multiple images - especially if there is a lack of cloud cover.

[toriaj]

thank you everyone for your comments and suggestions!

toriaj, that looks SO much better. did you add a layer of color selectively over the couple or did you just select them and change the hue?

Glad you like it. I made a new layer, adjusted the color balance, erased the layer, and painted it back in on their faces. I made a weaker color balance layer for her shirt, and probably should have included their entire bodies in that layer.

Telecorder, what did you do for WB in your shot?

[Telecorder]

Telecorder, what did you do for WB in your shot?


Auto-WB with minor PP in PSE4;

Can't fully remember PP steps but, typically, I crop; Levels Adjustment; Brightness-Contrast; Focus Magic OOF

EXIF Info--
Exposure Time = 1/250"
F Number = F11
Exposure Program = Manual
Exposure Bias Value = ±0EV
Max Aperture Value = F3.48
Metering Mode = Pattern
Flash = Flash fired, auto mode, return light detected, red-eye reduction mode
Focal Length = 18mm
Color Space = sRGB
Exif Image Width = 3008
Exif Image Height = 2000
Custom Rendered = Normal process
Exposure Mode = Manual exposure
White Balance = Auto white balance
Focal Length In 35mm Film = 27mm
Scene Capture Type = Normal
Gain Control = None
Contrast = Normal
Saturation = Normal
Sharpness = Hard