40D -- help push me over the edge

[andrewbw]

As is my "way," I'm wigging myself out about a new camera purchase.

I've had an XTi since the day they went on sale, and have been very happy with it. I'm ready to move up, however, and am looking for the following things:

1. Better picture quality at ISO 800 and especially 1600 (less grain/less detail loss)
2. Better focus performance when using L-series glass (faster lock, more accurate lock)

While I'd love to go full frame, the price of even a used 5D is well out of my reach, and I have at least a minor investment in crop-body-only lenses, so I'm satisfied to stay in Canon's crop sensor cameras for now.

That is really all I need or want out of an updated body, as the rest of the specs of the XTi are well within my needs. While I was initially attracted to the 50D due to its other nice features (the higher res LCD is really appealing for quick review) some of the conflicting image quality opinions, along with the new-body price that's a little much for my budget right now, got me looking at the 40D which seems like the bargain of the century these days -- B&H has it for $869 new right now.

Can 40D users who are familiar with the limitations of the XTi comment on this as an upgrade step? My finger is literally hovering over the "BUY" button as I think the 40D is a tremendous value right now, but I want to feel I'm getting a solid upgrade before I relegate my otherwise excellent XTi to "spare body" status.

Thanks in advance!

Andrew

[adam75south]

man i don't know what to tell you that you probably don't already know. i will say i've been using it at ISO 3200 quite a bit lately and it's pretty much kickin ass for me. not that my 30d wasn't badass, but it focuses so much faster and more accurately..and it has good high ISO performance. it's just an awesome camera.

also, if you're buying used, there's a program that will tell you how many actuations are on the camera...so no more buying blind.

here's one from this weekend. i know, probably not the best example, but focus was dead on and you can tell how dark it was given exif data.

ISO 3200 30mm f/1.4 1/60s

[te1221]

I think I would vote for waiting until the 50D becomes cheaper. I feel that the screen on the 40D is a downgrade compared to the 30D in terms of overall quality and sharpness when reviewing pictures. A lot of them look out of focus on the screen, but are really sharp on the computer.

[droopy1592]

1)Wait for 50D to get cheaper
2) Save dough and get an XSi, as good as the 40D in IQ (especially w/ DPP) at 800,1600, and pushed to 3200 and has more crop options.
3) Go ahead and get the 40D, it'll be capable of taking gorgeous pics, well, forever.

I picked the XSi over the 40D even when they were close in price. I liked the way the smaller size felt in my hands.

[jedinite]

I don't know if the XTi body can accept the EF line of lenses, but why not buy new lens now since there's a rebate on the L series, and wait on the 50D body to come down in price. I'm becoming a lens addict, come join me LOL

[cdifoto]

EF-S bodies can accept EF lenses but EF bodies cannot accept EF-S lenses.

[zmikers]

since there's a rebate on the L series

Where is this rebate from?

[talkingdog]

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=PromotionsAct

40 is a great camera, the only thing that I don't like is the way auto iso works and the lcd needs more resolution for checking focus and using live view imho. Its a real bargain right now

[Gintaras]

Andrew, I would consider either 50D or 5DII Mark. I am not sure about 40D as I heard some complaints about IQ, some say XSi IQ is better. Yet all people love 50D... and 5DII sounds pretty good not mention price will be below Nikon D700, perhaps lower price than what people pay for 5D today ... but if money is an issue take 40D though personally I would opt for 50d or 5dII in your case.

[lukeap69]

I used to have a 400D (XTi) before getting the 40D. If you shoot manual, then 40D will be easier to use. The AF is much better specially in low light based on my experience. IQ wise, I think 40D is better in ISO 800 and 1600. With its price right now, I say grab it!

[Gintaras]

luke, i am not sure if comparing 40D to 400D makes sense, perhaps 40D to 450D (XSi) which appear more close. also not to forget sometimes it makes sense to pay a bit more for a newer model so as not to be compelled to upgrade in a year time :-)

i saw people buying 40d hot and later rushing to sell it and get either 50D or 5D, in my place plenty people selling 40D, but i have not seen anyone selling 450D...

[michaelb]

I use a 40D and a 5D and the 40D can do 90% of what the 5D can. The 40D's focus is better too, IMO.

The biggest change you will notice c/w the XTi is not the IQ, but the body style and the focus. The XXD line is so nice for shooting in manual - the wheel on the back makes a big difference. The focus is very good, much better than my old XT.

Don't worry about the 40D's IQ. It is plenty good. I use it side by side with the 5D and it competes very well.


40D....
http://brownphotography.smugmug.com/photos/391054122_MLpR2-L.jpg



http://brownphotography.smugmug.com/photos/393585278_PJNRs-L.jpg



http://brownphotography.smugmug.com/photos/397857524_6T5ni-L.jpg

[andrewbw]

Thanks for everyone's replies, I really appreciate the level of insight on DCRP. Michael -- that last shot is breathtaking, and similar to some of what I do. I primarily shoot in aperture priority mode, but would shoot manual more often if it wasn't somewhat of a chore on the XTi. I'm glad to hear the 40D's ergonomics are better suited to this. One thing I don't do much of at all is manual focus -- that is something I want the camera to do for me, so if I had to pick the single most important reason for me to upgrade it would be to buy into a more precise and robust focus system. While I have read (and the comments here seem to support) that the 40D is a step up from the XTi, I have not read definitively that the 50D improves dramatically on the 40D in this regard.

I appreciate the sentiment that I should wait until I can grab a 50D, but I remain uncertain that the price premium buys me anything that is useful to me, beyond the much improved screen (which is a huge plus, admittedly). And while I'm sure the 50D is an excellent camera and not deserving some of the criticism it's taking, I'm becoming more of a value shopper as I get older and with the 40D rapidly approaching $850 new, it's really hard to justify spending $500 more on the 50D. I guess what I was looking for from everyone is whether it felt like it was "$500 better," and that's not the impression I'm getting.

I welcome other comments, pro or against my thinking, especially from those of you who've used an XTi and a 40D (or a 50D). For now I'm going to continue watching prices on both cameras.

[adam75south]

also keep in mind file sizes. that 15MP is gonna fill up a memory card extremely fast. even on the 40d it seems like i only got about 550 RAWS on an 8GB card friday night before i ran out of space.

i'm not sure about the 50d's sRAW sizes though, but i think the new 5dmkII has an sRAW right at 10MP or so...so that one would definitely be something to look into.

[michaelb]

so if I had to pick the single most important reason for me to upgrade it would be to buy into a more precise and robust focus system. While I have read (and the comments here seem to support) that the 40D is a step up from the XTi....


I've not used an XTi, but I can tell you that the difference in AF between my old XT and my 40D is night and day.


I primarily shoot in aperture priority mode, but would shoot manual more often if it wasn't somewhat of a chore on the XTi. I'm glad to hear the 40D's ergonomics are better suited to this

I didn't start shooting manual until I upgraded to the 40D. Now I shoot everything manual except for fast moving subjects. Its so much easier with the 40D.


And while I'm sure the 50D is an excellent camera and not deserving some of the criticism it's taking, I'm becoming more of a value shopper as I get older and with the 40D rapidly approaching $850 new, it's really hard to justify spending $500 more on the 50D. I guess what I was looking for from everyone is whether it felt like it was "$500 better," and that's not the impression I'm getting...

I agree. The only feature on the 50D that would really matter to me is the lens micro-adjust feature. The 50D's LCD would be nice, but I don't mind the 40D's LCD.

[jedinite]

also keep in mind file sizes. that 15MP is gonna fill up a memory card extremely fast. even on the 40d it seems like i only got about 550 RAWS on an 8GB card friday night before i ran out of space.

i'm not sure about the 50d's sRAW sizes though, but i think the new 5dmkII has an sRAW right at 10MP or so...so that one would definitely be something to look into.

I get about 290 shots on my 50D shooting in RAW on my 8GB UDMA card, there are sRAW1 and sRAW2 modes that are also available which will give you more shots but I shoot only in RAW mode. I don't think I'll need to shoot in sRAW or get a bigger card yet, but it all depends on how much you intend on shooting. The file sizes range from 16MB up to 21MB, I assume that's based on how much variation there is in each photo (colors, contrast, etc.) as there's probably some simple compression going on in the RAW. Otherwise I don't know why some of my images are 20-21megs and some are only 16megs for the same format.

40D would be a good upgrade to your XTi, only get a 50D if you want to pay a premium for the latest and greatest from Canon. Since I don't like buying old tech unless new tech is really bad, I tend to spend the extra on new tech, that way I know I'll have less urge to upgrade sooner. But that's just me.

[te1221]

I've not used an XTi, but I can tell you that the difference in AF between my old XT and my 40D is night and day.


I'm looking at my old pics taken with the XT and I'm shocked to see how soft and out of focus a lot of my images were. I felt embarrassed to look at them. Maybe my skills improved at the same time too :) during my upgrade history.

XT >> 30D >> 40D >> 1Dmk2n >> Future 5Dmk2

Yes, I change gear a little too often.

[andrewbw]

haha... well, that didn't take long. I like highly competitive industries.

The 50D is down to $1199.99 on Amazon and at B&H, thanks to a Canon instant rebate. Other retailers seem to be slowly following. The 40D is now solidly at $899. A $300 difference is easier to swallow than a $500 difference, and suddenly the 50D doesn't seem like a bad investment.

Time to have a conversation with my checkbook...

[yolew]

I don't know how good this dealer is, but I came across them and they have the lowest prices. It's 1wayphoto.com. Their URL is: http://www.1wayphoto.com/default.asp

The 40D body is 429 and the 50D body is 749.

Be careful if you get one of their kits. Be sure the kit says the lens is a Canon lens. If it doesn't say it's a Canon lens, then it probably isn't. Don't know for sure.

Hope this helps.

[D Thompson]

I don't know how good this dealer is, but I came across them and they have the lowest prices. It's 1wayphoto.com. Their URL is: http://www.1wayphoto.com/default.asp

The 40D body is 429 and the 50D body is 749.

Be careful if you get one of their kits. Be sure the kit says the lens is a Canon lens. If it doesn't say it's a Canon lens, then it probably isn't. Don't know for sure.

Hope this helps.

Better stay away from them.

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/1_Way_Photo

[Joe Fisher]

I had an XTi for about 6 months before it's physical limitations became apparent. Mainly only the iso going to 1600. I shoot dog agility primarily in dark horse arenas, I need everything I can get.

One somewhat unexpected bonus. In my opinion, the ergonomics are far superior on the 40D compared to the Xti. I love the wheel on the back and the wheel on top. It's great for making quick menu changes.

When I bought the XTi, I figured it would ideal for me. I do a lot of hiking, the camera's light enough. However, the 40D isn't all that much heavier, but it's *so* much easier to hold and quicker to use.

I"m not going to post any pics because both camera's take very nice pictures. As I said at the beginning, the 40D has an edge with a higher ISO, but for outdoor shots, or well lit indoor shots, the IQ is a wash in my opinion.



Can 40D users who are familiar with the limitations of the XTi comment on this as an upgrade step?

[yolew]

I just went back to 1wayphoto's website and looked again. They have two prices for each model.

The 40D is 429 and 599. The 50D is 749 and 1099 for the body only. The higher price includes a one year USA warranty. The first price doesn't.

[D Thompson]

I just went back to 1wayphoto's website and looked again. They have two prices for each model.

The 40D is 429 and 599. The 50D is 749 and 1099 for the body only. The higher price includes a one year USA warranty. The first price doesn't.

They come from Canon with a 1 year warranty.

[lukeap69]

Gintaras, the OP has XTi not XSi and wants to upgrade to 40D. What does XSi got to do with the comparison. 50D is the "upgrade" tp 40D so those 40D owners might think of upgrading to 50D. XSi is rebel series and not XXD series and as far as I know it is still the best in its own series.

What's your point again?

luke, i am not sure if comparing 40D to 400D makes sense, perhaps 40D to 450D (XSi) which appear more close. also not to forget sometimes it makes sense to pay a bit more for a newer model so as not to be compelled to upgrade in a year time :-)

i saw people buying 40d hot and later rushing to sell it and get either 50D or 5D, in my place plenty people selling 40D, but i have not seen anyone selling 450D...

[michaelb]

Better stay away from them.

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/1_Way_Photo

+1

Seriously, they have a 1/10 rating. Don't even think about ordering from this site.

[yolew]

+1

Seriously, they have a 1/10 rating. Don't even think about ordering from this site.

Thanks for the warning.

[forno]

1 way money mroe like it @ that price

[andrewbw]

Just a FYI... I've continued to watch prices on both cameras (plain body only) and it's been fascinating to see the pricing battles. Amazon and B&H are clearly competing against one another. I've seen prices for both cameras swing up and down multiple times over the last week to a week and a half. With each one trying to beat the other for a few days at a time by a few dollars.

Thought this might be useful for anyone else in the market currently.

[GaryS]

For all you Canadians, www.thecamerastore.com, a Calgary online and retail store, has the 40D on for $940. Pretty good price!

One more recommendation, there is a photography price checking site called www.photoprice.ca which gives us a great comparison of the current prices of US and Canadian retailers, and it works in currency conversion, shipping, taxes etc....