Which file type to use if JPEG losses too much quality?

[rx_morph]

I have a photo I edited in Adobe LR and I got it to look how I wanted but if I export it as a JPEG (at highest quality) then the colors look flat and dull. However it's still about a 7mb file as a JPEG. How can I export it without losing quality? I've exported it as a .PSD and obviously it doesn't lose any quality but of course I can't upload a PSD anywhere either. Sorry about the noob question but I never had a photo so degraded by using the JPEG format...

[teko]

24 or 32 bit PNG. The file will be large though. PNG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Network_Graphics) is widely supported by web browsers, and it's lossless.

In truth, for photographs, saving in 100% JPEG quality should be good enough. But if you want more than that, save it in a lossless format. Usually I only have color problems for JPEGs when making screenshots on the computer.

[rx_morph]

24 or 32 bit PNG. The file will be large though. PNG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Network_Graphics) is widely supported by web browsers, and it's lossless.

In truth, for photographs, saving in 100% JPEG quality should be good enough. But if you want more than that, save it in a lossless format. Usually I only have color problems for JPEGs when making screenshots on the computer.

Thanks for the quick reply, teko.

I tried using the PNG format and while it is better, the colors still seem to be not as vivid as they are while viewing it in Adobe LR. My problem is very similar to this link (http://blogs.oreilly.com/lightroom/2007/10/exporting-and-saving-jpeg-imag.html) I found. Sounds like taking a screen shot is my only option to get the exact color reproduction...

[downtrodden]

Try monitor calibration software. When you convert to JPG, your monitors profile isn't tagged to the photo, so the photo displays minus the monitor settings. If you monitor matches that file, then your editing will be real world and it shouldn't matter whether you save in a lossless format.

That's what i've been reading and I may not understand correctly- but someone with a little more knowledge of color profiles should be along shortly.

[David Metsky]

Color matching isn't likely to be a loss of quality associated with JPG. There's something else (like monitor calibration) going on here.

[teko]

I don't know much about color profiles, but PNG should be lossless (means, no quality lost during conversion). Make sure you save the image as 24 or 32-bit PNG, not 8-bit (as it only supports 256 colors).

In photoshop, using Save as Web is a good idea if you'll upload the pic.

[DonSchap]

Colorspace could be at issue, here, especially if you are doing a lot of nature shots and sky work.

If the original image was done in AdobeRGB ... if you do not do the conversion to sRGB, the standard color gamut (sRGB) of the web reduces the vivid green, blues and cyans you were enjoying with AdobeRGB workspace, on your monitor. It turns these vibrant colors into exactly what you describe, "drab and dull looking".

If this is the case, when you are done "editting" your work, under the Edit Menu, in Photoshop CS3, choose "Convert to Profile":

40807

It should look a lot like this text box ... then just convert and your colors should be maintained as well as they can, under the change of colorspace.

[D Thompson]

I have to agree with Don here :eek:

[rx_morph]

Monitor calibration may very well be the issue here. When I export the photo from LR as a PSD file and then save it as a PNG file with Adobe PS CS2 it looks fine viewing it from within adobe but if I look at it using the Windows viewer or upload it to the net then it looks duller. The original image is sRGB so that shouldn't be the problem, should it? Saving for web in adobe didn't seem to help either...

I saved the PNG type and took an SS from adobe of what it looks like in there. I'll list them below in that order.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q88/rx_morpheus/SN8525302-1.png

Not a HUGE difference except for more vibrance in the bottom one.

[Visual Reality]

Set your Color Settings in Photoshop to North America General Purpose 2. Close and reopen PS and look at them again.

[rx_morph]

Set your Color Settings in Photoshop to North America General Purpose 2. Close and reopen PS and look at them again.

It's already set to North America General Purpose 2... :(

[Visual Reality]

In your desktop properties, settings, advanced, color management, what profile is it using, if any?

And is this XP or Vista?

[rx_morph]

Well not a whole lot of info on the profile it's using but it just says VS77. Under current monitor it reads: KDS Visula Sensations VS-77/VS-70/VS-7p.

It's Windows XP Home Edition sp3

[Visual Reality]

The one you should trust is the one in Photoshop. However if you want the web / Windows to look the same, this should work.

Try removing that profile and adding the sRGB Color Space instead, then set as default. The machine may need to be rebooted for the effect to take place.

[rx_morph]

I set sRGB Color Space profile to default and then went and saved the psd image exported from LR to adobe as a JPEG and the photo still looked great in PS but once again viewing it with windows or anything else makes it look dull.

[Visual Reality]

Was a reboot performed after the change? I'm pretty sure it's necessary. You probably have by now.

If both XP and PS are using the same profile all images should be interpreted the same...if it doesn't work I may have to think on this some more.

Of the images you posted above, the top one represents what you see in Windows and the bottom one in Photoshop?

As far as Save for Web goes - I never use that feature. The reason why is it kills all EXIF data.

[rx_morph]

Was a reboot performed after the change? I'm pretty sure it's necessary. You probably have by now.

If both XP and PS are using the same profile all images should be interpreted the same...if it doesn't work I may have to think on this some more.

Of the images you posted above, the top one represents what you see in Windows and the bottom one in Photoshop?

As far as Save for Web goes - I never use that feature. The reason why is it kills all EXIF data.

Actually I didn't reboot until I read this again...unfortunately it still didn't seem to help. I see what you mean by they should both be interpreted the same since they are using the same color spacing profile.

Yes, that's the correct order.

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind.

The good news is that I think I was able to solve the problem finally by using the following method:

Use PictureSync. This is how I roll now. PictureSync is a cheap utility that, while not explicitly designed for LR, installs itself as a LR plugin. You can then export from LR with the PictureSync plugin, images are output to a temp directory and then pretty simply and elegantly processed for output/upload by PictureSync. There's a box in the preferences of the app, in the Pictures tab, "convert image colour profiles to sRGB" that when checked seems to do the trick. That is, seems to produce images that have consistent browser-to-browser color. As an added bonus, the jpeg resize in PictureSync obeys "longest edge" dimensions, and outputs smart, small jpegs.

Thanks for all the input and advice everyone.

[DonSchap]

An exercise in terror ... :D