Monitor printer calibration

[zmikers]

Ok, I know this topic has probably been discussed to death, but I've been looking for previous threads (which I know are here somewhere) and can't find them. So I apologize.

I am dead set on buying a calibrator this weekend or soon after. I have done quite a bit of research and do not feel any closer to a solution. As I respect most of your opinions on this site, I'm going to ask yet again. I am deciding between the 2 obvious choices. The spyder and the huey (eye one pokes his head up every now and then too). What are your opinions about these calibrators? I need ,my monitor and printer to match.....for once:p Cheers in advance!

[kgosden]

I have an older Monaco Spyder. It works well, but is a little slow. I hear that the newest versions are much improved. I found a few good calibrator reviews on the web a week or so ago, but did not bookmark them.

[zmikers]

I have an older Monaco Spyder. It works well, but is a little slow. I hear that the newest versions are much improved. I found a few good calibrator reviews on the web a week or so ago, but did not bookmark them.

So you would recommend the syder then? Thanks for the response:)

[erichlund]

Spyder is made by ColorData. The current model is the Spyder 3 and you want the Spyder 3 Studio. It isn't cheap. $600. But it does the job and does both monitor and printer. I contains two colorimeters, one for the monitor and one for the printer. I've been very satisfied with mine. The monitor hardware also has a sensor that monitors room light and adjusts the profile based on lighting conditions.

I previously had an Eye One solution. Worked well, but when I upgraded to Vista, the company did not provide an update, but recommended new hardware. ColorData advertised their update to the Spyder 2 software. That sold me on them. I don't have any experience with the Huey. I'm sure it works well, but I don't recall seeing a printer solution.

[zmikers]

Spyder is made by ColorData. The current model is the Spyder 3 and you want the Spyder 3 Studio. It isn't cheap. $600. But it does the job and does both monitor and printer. I contains two colorimeters, one for the monitor and one for the printer. I've been very satisfied with mine. The monitor hardware also has a sensor that monitors room light and adjusts the profile based on lighting conditions.

I previously had an Eye One solution. Worked well, but when I upgraded to Vista, the company did not provide an update, but recommended new hardware. ColorData advertised their update to the Spyder 2 software. That sold me on them. I don't have any experience with the Huey. I'm sure it works well, but I don't recall seeing a printer solution.

OK Cheers, I'll look into that. $600 (I'm assuming USD) is a bit more than I wanted to spend, but if it's worth the money then I'll splurge:p

[zmikers]

you can do it better

?:confused:?

[Mark_48]

Using a Pantone Huey here and it seems to work OK for me. I've been using the test images below as sort of a standard to check what I see on the calibrated monitor compared to what gets printed.

Right click to save the files...
www.naphoto.com/calnap.jpg

www.xmission.com/~inkjetcolo/JPEG.zip

www.xmission.com/~inkjetcolo/tss_printer_test.zip

www.digitaldog.net/files/Printer_Test_file.jpg.zip
from Andrew Rodneys site.... http://www.digitaldog.net/tips/index.shtml . A good number of PDF's worth browsing through over there.

[cdifoto]

I use a Huey on my monitors. Nothing on my printers. My prints look pretty damned close to what I see on screen whether they come from my Epson R2400 or my pro lab. Any differences certainly aren't worth fussing about.

When I print my own, I find the best results come when I turn ICM Color Management off in the printer driver.

[zmikers]

CDI Don - Cheers for the advice. I figured if I got my monitor calibrated, then the prints should be close. Huey it is I guess.

Mark - Thanks for the links.

The super typhoon (3rd typhoon in 4 weeks:mad:) left earlier than expected this morning and left us all with a day off of work, so I may go make my purchase. As long as the computer market is still standing:(.....Knock on wood

[cdifoto]

I'm not really advocating the Huey. I don't care much for it. While the colors seem ok, it also dimmed my laptop's screen from the default. Now the max isn't very bright. Dimming it to save battery is only viable in relative darkness. I have no idea if it's a Huey thing, or a calibration thing in general. It didn't do that to my desktop LCD, but it can't seem to get rid of the slight green cast in my desktop's Viewsonic LCD either. My laptop doesn't have the same green cast.

I just don't think paying a boatload of moola for a printer calibration jig is necessary.

[zmikers]

I just don't think paying a boatload of moola for a printer calibration jig is necessary.

Good point mate. I mean, honestly, my prints aren't that far off without the calibrated monitor, so I'm assuming calibrating my monitor will do the trick. So now I still need to decide between the huey and the spyder! Thanks Don:p

I have one other quick question or need of advice. I currently have a 4 year old 19" viewsonic VX 912. contrast ratio 500:1, resolution - 1,280 X 1,024. Should I be looking to upgrade that?

[cdifoto]

No clue there. :D

[Visual Reality]

zmikers,

I would consider an upgrade based on the resolution. A nice 24" 1920x1200 LCD does wonders for photo editing. After months of researching based on my needs I settled on the BenQ FP241W. I couldn't be happier and calibrated with the Spyder2Express the colors, brightness, whites and blacks are damn near perfect, not to mention the viewing angles (no serious color shift when viewed from an angle).

However other rated specs such as contrast, response time, etc are all based on loose interpretations of how they want to rate them so they are completely useless for comparison purposes. Do not buy a monitor based on those specs - the ONLY one that is a consistent telltale sign of the quality (and type) of LCD panel used in the monitor is the viewing angle. Buy one with 178* angles both vertically and horizontally. You will thank me later - this indicates a PVA, MVA, or IPS based panel as opposed to a TN which I can't recommend for photo work.

Just a few pointers :)

[zmikers]

zmikers,

I would consider an upgrade based on the resolution. A nice 24" 1920x1200 LCD does wonders for photo editing. After months of researching based on my needs I settled on the BenQ FP241W. I couldn't be happier and calibrated with the Spyder2Express the colors, brightness, whites and blacks are damn near perfect, not to mention the viewing angles (no serious color shift when viewed from an angle).

However other rated specs such as contrast, response time, etc are all based on loose interpretations of how they want to rate them so they are completely useless for comparison purposes. Do not buy a monitor based on those specs - the ONLY one that is a consistent telltale sign of the quality (and type) of LCD panel used in the monitor is the viewing angle. Buy one with 178* angles both vertically and horizontally. You will thank me later - this indicates a PVA, MVA, or IPS based panel as opposed to a TN which I can't recommend for photo work.

Just a few pointers :)

WOW! Brilliant! Cheers for the info. I will definitely keep that in mind and do more research.:D

[Visual Reality]

My purchase was actually in the Spring/Summer of 2007, and I still don't see anything better on the market. I will have to look around and see if anything has replaced this model as companies like to do that often, even when they have a great product already :rolleyes:

[kgosden]

A monitor upgrade is certainly worthwhile. I could only squeeze 22" into my desk. I did not gain much resolution over my 19". Just up to 1600x1050. But the color improvement and viewing angles were absolutely dramatic. I searched a lot and looked for reviews. The biggest challenge is that most reviews are for gamers and really don't address the needs of Photo editing; unless you count those reviews of +$1000 Apple, Lacie and Sony displays. Looking at store displays is even more useless, especially for monitors that are not 4:3 aspect ratios. Most of the demo units are driven only at 1280x1024 so you end up looking at stretched, non-native resolution.

I ended up with a Samsung 226CW. They designed this one with a wider color gamut and it really shows. The biggest problem is that only Best Buy seems to sell it so it rarely goes on sale.

[erichlund]

I'm not really advocating the Huey. I don't care much for it. While the colors seem ok, it also dimmed my laptop's screen from the default. Now the max isn't very bright. Dimming it to save battery is only viable in relative darkness. I have no idea if it's a Huey thing, or a calibration thing in general. It didn't do that to my desktop LCD, but it can't seem to get rid of the slight green cast in my desktop's Viewsonic LCD either. My laptop doesn't have the same green cast.

I just don't think paying a boatload of moola for a printer calibration jig is necessary.

The dimming is normal. Most monitors are too bright for photo editing, especially LCDs. By dimming the monitor, it will look a lot more like what actually comes out of the printer.

[cdifoto]

The dimming is normal. Most monitors are too bright for photo editing, especially LCDs. By dimming the monitor, it will look a lot more like what actually comes out of the printer.
It didn't dim my desktop LCD. By dimming my laptop, it made the screen too dim (or barely visible) in airports and pretty much every other "day lit" location.

[Visual Reality]

It didn't dim my desktop LCD. By dimming my laptop, it made the screen too dim (or barely visible) in airports and pretty much every other "day lit" location.
Was the calibration done in a completely dark room with no other light hitting the screen?

[cdifoto]

Yes on both computers.

[zmikers]

I can't believe it. I went to the Taipei computer market today to pick up a monitor calibrator. The market consists of 5 floors of wall to wall stalls all selling computer "stuff" I mean hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of different stalls all owned by different people in a country where they manufacture electronics like they're going out of style, and nobody sold a calibrator of any kind. Not only did they not stock them, but most of them gave me a "wtf" look when I asked. No it was not a language barrier because my Taiwanese girlfriend was doing the asking. This is really hard to believe, but I guess I'll have to order one on line.

PS - I still haven't decided which one to buy, spyder or huey. I was going to make a quick decision when I found one for sale today. Now I'll really have to think about it if I'm going to order one online:(:p

[cdifoto]

Geeks and gamers don't really care if their colors aren't right, so it's not something that would be in demand at a nerd trade show. No demand = no supply. The mere fact that they don't even know their colors are off (nor does it matter much) doesn't help matters.

[Rhys]

Why buy? You can get free from the local DIY store, a set of colour-matching cards. Then you take a photo of the card in good light with the correct white balance set on your camera. I suggest midday outside on a clear day. Set the camera to daylight, take the photo. Then go indoors, bring the image up on your screen and adjust the settings until it matches the original that you're holding in front of you.

Then try printing and see if it looks the same as the original and the screen. Sometimes you might have to adjust the screen and the printer to get accuracy.

[cdifoto]

Why buy? You can get free from the local DIY store, a set of colour-matching cards. Then you take a photo of the card in good light with the correct white balance set on your camera. I suggest midday outside on a clear day. Set the camera to daylight, take the photo. Then go indoors, bring the image up on your screen and adjust the settings until it matches the original that you're holding in front of you.

Then try printing and see if it looks the same as the original and the screen. Sometimes you might have to adjust the screen and the printer to get accuracy.
While you're still taking a picture of the card, I've already calibrated, made a pot of coffee, and sat down with a cup.

[Rhys]

While you're still taking a picture of the card, I've already calibrated, made a pot of coffee, and sat down with a cup.

But the OP can't get it in Taiwan. He has to improvise or import. Improvisation is faster and easier.

[Mark_48]

Why buy? You can get free from the local DIY store, a set of colour-matching cards. Then you take a photo of the card in good light with the correct white balance set on your camera. I suggest midday outside on a clear day. Set the camera to daylight, take the photo. Then go indoors, bring the image up on your screen and adjust the settings until it matches the original that you're holding in front of you.

Then try printing and see if it looks the same as the original and the screen. Sometimes you might have to adjust the screen and the printer to get accuracy.

What specific colors would you propose using for calibration? And what free color matching cards are you referring to? If you attempt to adjust the RGB components individually, you'll have to have color cards which are dead on to it's associated RGB primary color, otherwise as you tweak an adjustment for one card, you'll throw off the color of another.

As I'm sitting here, a cloud went over and darkened the ambient lighting in my room. Huey knew this and adjusted my monitor for me. Thanks Huey!

[zmikers]

Geeks and gamers don't really care if their colors aren't right, so it's not something that would be in demand at a nerd trade show. No demand = no supply. The mere fact that they don't even know their colors are off (nor does it matter much) doesn't help matters.

Ya, I suppose you're right. Just surprised me is all.

Rhys - I've tried countless free manual calibrations and none of them worked out right. I really don't trust myself anymore:p I'd rather let "something" fix my monitor for me.
It's not a big issue, I don't mind ordering one. I was just posting my experience as I found it very interesting. That's all.:D

[JLV]

Here is a test file that may help you until you can get what you are looking for.

[Visual Reality]

As I'm sitting here, a cloud went over and darkened the ambient lighting in my room. Huey knew this and adjusted my monitor for me. Thanks Huey!
How does it do that?

[zmikers]

JLV - Cheers for the help!

[DonSchap]

You should consider the color of shirt you are wearing, when editing, also. An 18%-neutral gray one was suggested in class. The reflectively of white, colored or black throws off the adjustment and the calibration (when being done).

Consider also that "not sitting in front of the monitor" is unrealistic. Just buy the darn shirt and wear it. LOL ;)

[Visual Reality]

Edited....

[Mark_48]

How does it do that?

Small sensor on the front of the Huey

[Visual Reality]

Very nice touch. I was thinking light sensor or even a connection to a weather service, but that would be slow to react and unpractical.

[cdifoto]

My laptop has one of those built in. It does its adjustments more smoothly and subtly than the Huey ever did, at least from my experience.

Having said that, I turn off the auto adjustment due to the Huey killing my max brightness. I need it as high as it goes all the time just to see it properly.

[Visual Reality]

Could you calibrate it with the brightness down, then turn it up after?

And which laptop do you have? I haven't seen this before.

[cdifoto]

Yes, I've tried that too. It still applies the same amount of dimness...ie it'll kick the screen down even further at whatever brightness is set, so my max is still limited.

It's a Dell D820. One of these days I'm going to try another calibrator but since my colors are ok, I just deal with the limited brightness.

[Mark_48]

Yes, I've tried that too. It still applies the same amount of dimness...ie it'll kick the screen down even further at whatever brightness is set, so my max is still limited.

It's a Dell D820. One of these days I'm going to try another calibrator but since my colors are ok, I just deal with the limited brightness.

Any chance on the laptop do you have Adobe Gamma quietly running in the background? If I recall correctly Huey and Gamma didn't play well together on a desktop I had.

[erichlund]

When calibrating a monitor it should be done in a dark room where no ambient light is reaching the screen, at all...not even your shirt. Set it up in another room and come back to it later. ;)

I've owned two calibration systems and both specifically said to calibrate with the lighting as close as possible to the actual working lighting. So, if you do most of your editing in the evening, calibrate in the evening, because then you won't have sunlight streaming in, giving you a different visual light spectrum than what you will have when you are actually doing your work.

This is where the calibrators with the light sensor help. They can adjust for light intensity. However, they do not adjust for light color, and if you also edit during the day, you can do a second calibration for day use. Then you simply tell the calibration software which calibration file to use.

Unless you edit in the dark, you don't want to calibrate in the dark. You will get very pure color response from the monitor to the colorimeter, but then when you edit with the lights on, your colors will be off, because they will be affected by the light. Also, the light sensor on the colorimeter (if yours has one) can only do one thing, drive your monitor full bright, a setting for which it may not even be able to compensate the color channels accurately, due to the levels of boost required.

Personally, I'm hoping the whole bit about in the dark and wearing a specific shirt were jokes.

[Mark_48]

Part of the calibration attire.... :D

[cdifoto]

Any chance on the laptop do you have Adobe Gamma quietly running in the background?
Nope. Not a chance.

[Visual Reality]

I've owned two calibration systems and both specifically said to calibrate with the lighting as close as possible to the actual working lighting. So, if you do most of your editing in the evening, calibrate in the evening, because then you won't have sunlight streaming in, giving you a different visual light spectrum than what you will have when you are actually doing your work.

This is where the calibrators with the light sensor help. They can adjust for light intensity. However, they do not adjust for light color, and if you also edit during the day, you can do a second calibration for day use. Then you simply tell the calibration software which calibration file to use.

Unless you edit in the dark, you don't want to calibrate in the dark. You will get very pure color response from the monitor to the colorimeter, but then when you edit with the lights on, your colors will be off, because they will be affected by the light. Also, the light sensor on the colorimeter (if yours has one) can only do one thing, drive your monitor full bright, a setting for which it may not even be able to compensate the color channels accurately, due to the levels of boost required.

Personally, I'm hoping the whole bit about in the dark and wearing a specific shirt were jokes.
Trust me, this is what I always thought as well, until my Colorvision directions specifically told me otherwise. It said not to let any ambient light reach the screen during calibration. I also had some problems calibrating a laptop LCD properly until I put it in the dark.

I can see arguments both ways. I'd like to learn more about this though.

[erichlund]

From the ColorData (Used to be Colorvision) user guide for the Spyder 3 Elite:

Lighting Conditions For Monitors
The lighting conditions in the room where you are viewing the monitor should be
stable and repeatable. If the light changes while you are viewing the monitor this can
effect your color perception. Calibrating in one lighting condition and then viewing in a
different lighting condition should also be avoided.

This means normal lighting conditions that you will actually work in. You cannot calibrate in one light and work in another. The next to last sentence is the key to that. The sensor on the colorimeter is for light intensity only, and it's range is very limited. You must try and keep your working conditions stable and you must calibrate in those conditions.

Light should not fall directly on the display screen. For example, if you have overhead
lighting, you should prevent those lights from shining directly on the face of the
monitor by using a hood or other shield.

This is an all the time issue. It does not mean keep that the room should be dark. The room, as specified in the first paragraph, should be as close to normal as possible. But you should always keep strong direct sources of light from hitting on the monitor.


Exterior windows are a common source of variable light. Outside light entering the
viewing area will change in both intensity and color throughout the day (and across
seasons) which can affect your color perception.
Lighting Conditions For Projectors

The room in which the projected image is being viewed should be as dark as is
practical. Especially during calibration there should be no lights shining on or near the
projection screen. Be sure that no ambient light is shining toward the Spyder sensor.

This refers to projection systems, which can also be calibrated. If you are doing your editing on a projection type screen...work in the dark. I can't imagine that giving great results, but what do I know? Didn't we partially move to digital to get OUT of the darkroom?

[Visual Reality]

Thanks for that.

That is what I always thought as well. That is how I did my main (BenQ 24"), but I had a laptop that gave me problems. Laptops in general seem to give hit and miss results with these calibrators.