PDA

View Full Version : The 5D has landed [C&C Welcome]



drama
06-12-2008, 09:00 AM
A few pics to start with

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3269/2572966962_987c55e6a1_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3060/2572408431_b4f1d74f88_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3191/2572407497_353543ab2b_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3055/2573230368_75bba7f2de_b.jpg

All shots with a Canon 85 1.8, which is a completely different animal on the 5D
C&C welcome

Nickcanada
06-12-2008, 09:09 AM
That portrait is fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One day I'll join you in DSLR FF land!


What kind of F #s are you shooting in these pictures?

drama
06-12-2008, 09:18 AM
Thanks Nick :)
The portrait was f1.8
The hourglass f1.8
The plant shot f8
The twig f2.8

If you go the flickr page, you can see the full exif
btw, I am waiting for you to join us in ff land
Skip the 40D

Nickcanada
06-12-2008, 09:22 AM
Thanks Nick :)
The portrait was f1.8
The hourglass f1.8
The plant shot f8
The twig f2.8

If you go the flickr page, you can see the full exif
btw, I am waiting for you to join us in ff land
Skip the 40D

Cool thanks!

ya, I think I'm going to skip to a FF camera as my next body. It will be a while yet though! too many other responsibilities. I'm hoping the little bit of film shooting I'm doing will hold me over. :)

24Peter
06-12-2008, 10:28 AM
Congrats drama. Yeah the portrait is great. I'm excited to go FF too, but am going to wait out the 5DMkII drama (pun intended) to see if it's worth going for the upgrade.

FLiPMaRC
06-12-2008, 10:32 AM
:eek: Wow! Like everyone said, nice portrait. Congrats!

faisal
06-12-2008, 10:39 AM
I like the plant shot more....kinda cool especially with the white background.

drama
06-12-2008, 11:03 AM
24 Peter thanks :)
He is just very photogenic
Full frame with in body IS would be great

FLipMarc thanks :)

faisal
good to hear some love for the plant :)

Rasidel Slika
06-12-2008, 11:04 AM
nice work - you sharpened well too.

drama
06-12-2008, 11:06 AM
Thanks delobbo :)
Just minimal selective USM, the rest is the lens & a sharp focus

24Peter
06-12-2008, 11:15 AM
Full frame with in body IS would be great

:)

A SONY of my OWNY... ;) 24MP too. :eek:

Rasidel Slika
06-12-2008, 12:26 PM
Thanks delobbo :)
Just minimal selective USM, the rest is the lens & a sharp focus
Oh so you didn't sharpen after the fact. How did you resize? I find resizing and sharpening to be one of the biggest challenges with the 5D. It is cake with the D70.

adam75south
06-12-2008, 01:27 PM
i'm loving the portrait. less dof that i'd prefer, but i'm sure you were just pushing it to see what it would do.

XaiLo
06-12-2008, 07:29 PM
drama, congrats on the camera and the portrait is kickin. ;)

BBPhoto
06-12-2008, 08:00 PM
I can't really comment on the 5D based on these pics. More qualified people have done that to death. What I can say is that these are wonderful compositions as usual Drama. Congratulations.

drama
06-12-2008, 11:11 PM
delobbo
sharpening using masks gives very good results, for resizing I use the built in thing, in photoshop ,not save for web

thanks adam75south
you are right about the 1.8, I was just inaugurating the lens & body :)

XaiLo
thanks, I am loving it :)

nqjudo
thankyou sir :)

shoey
06-13-2008, 04:09 AM
Hi Drama,

You have some nice shots there, but i'm just wondering whether they could have been replicated with the 40D? I have a 20D at the moment and have been looking to upgrade for a while but can't really justify the cost over quality improvements.

Do you really feel that the 5D is that much a better camera for being full frame?

I'm starting to wonder whether its just a sub-concious feeling of quality because of the price, and the fact it is full frame.

I'm not knocking your shots, i'm just after some clarity on the perceived improvement in photo quality of the 5D

Cheers:)

drama
06-13-2008, 07:49 AM
Shoey thanks :)
I feel there is lot of difference in the image quality but then I am biased
This suits my shooting style much better, easier to manual focus
Optimal utilisation of the glass I have invested in etc

The build quality on this is better in my opinion, the buttons are much more responsive mechanically
The LCD is not as bright but not an issue, there is no iso display in the viewfinder & that is a pain

Try one for yourself & see the pics at 100% raw
The noise levels are amazing, there seems to be far more info in the blue channel & far less noise

24Peter
06-13-2008, 09:40 AM
Well I think both shoey and drama make good points - the difference between the 5D and other Canon cameras (including crop cameras) is subtle. When I tested the 5D I was still shooting with my XT and for me the 5D was basically the same "but more." At the time I couldn't justify the 5D's price premium. drama does mention the advantages/disadvantages of the 5D over an xxD, although in my experience the 40D handles high ISO images pretty nicely.

The 5D definitely creates a nice high resolution, clean image. But IMO the 40D isn't far behind and even has some advantages over the 5D depending on what kind of shooting you're doing. As drama says, try both and then decide for yourself.

droopy1592
06-13-2008, 02:47 PM
One day...

I still like the Tiny-ness of the XSi but one day I'll have a canon FF as a main rig.

Prospero
06-13-2008, 05:10 PM
Drama, congrats on your new camera.
Nice images. I like the portrait. I'm looking forward to more of your work with this camera :)

drama
06-14-2008, 12:06 AM
Drama, congrats on your new camera.
Nice images. I like the portrait. I'm looking forward to more of your work with this camera :)

Thanks prospero :)

Gintaras
06-14-2008, 04:40 AM
Drama, how 5D compares to 40D in terms of IQ? i hear 5D is not as fast as 40D ... reason why i am asking is that 5D prices fallen so i am scratching my head if wait for 6D (7D?) FF or take 5D.

Rooz
06-14-2008, 04:58 AM
350d --> 400d --> 40d --> 5d ---> ??
only one place left to go drama. just get a D3 and be done with all this nonsense. :p

drama
06-14-2008, 05:24 AM
Gintaras
I was also keeping my eye on the 5D MkII but felt the present price point of the 5D is pretty sweet
Also that, I have always in love with the 5D but it was priced out of my budget
Plus I got a good deal for my 40D

I think the budget issue would be back with a 5D Mk II, so

Rooz
I should start a review site :D

Wesan
06-17-2008, 12:28 AM
Congrats to the 5D, Drama! I'm sure you can put it to good use. I agree with the others - that portrait in the first post is really good. :)

Good luck in Full Frame Land! :)

drama
06-17-2008, 04:34 AM
Thanks Wesan :)

michaelb
06-17-2008, 09:33 AM
Well I think both shoey and drama make good points - the difference between the 5D and other Canon cameras (including crop cameras) is subtle. When I tested the 5D I was still shooting with my XT and for me the 5D was basically the same "but more." At the time I couldn't justify the 5D's price premium. drama does mention the advantages/disadvantages of the 5D over an xxD, although in my experience the 40D handles high ISO images pretty nicely.

The 5D definitely creates a nice high resolution, clean image. But IMO the 40D isn't far behind and even has some advantages over the 5D depending on what kind of shooting you're doing. As drama says, try both and then decide for yourself.

I would agree with most of what Peter says here.

The 5D is ideal for portaits where you want very narrow DOF and subject isolation. FF yeilds less DOF than crop.

The 5D also has about a stop less noise than the 40D - noticable at ISO 800 and up.

However, if your doing studio portraits or landscapes stopped down, then the differences between the 5D and 40D images would be difficult to notice.

Where the 5D really excels is in "environmental" portraiture, IMO.

The 5D is also great for MF, due to the large VF.

The narrow DOF can be a disadvantage as well. If you shoot two or more people you have to be really careful with DOF. Its very easy with FF to get one person in the focus plane and the other out of it.

Also, I find the 40D to be much faster and more responsive for moving targets than the 5D; AI servo seems more reliable. Taking shots of my nieces/nephews (ages 10, 8 and 4) over the weekend I got more keepers with my 40D than my 5D, due to the AF. It doesn't matter how good the IQ is, if your focus is off then the image is worthless.

Bottom line, they each have their strengths and weaknesses.

By the way, Congrats again Drama - love those shots. ;)

drama
06-17-2008, 10:10 AM
Thanks michael :)

I use only the centre point AF & that is just as fast as my 40D
I have found my keeper rate has gone up since I picked up the 5D

The colors are nicer,less noisy
There is much more detail in the blue channel, with less of the usually associated noise
Cleaner more detailed shadows, you have to see it first hand to appreciate it

My style of shooting also may have much to contribute to, why I am enjoying this body so much

michaelb
06-17-2008, 10:28 AM
I find that the 5D AF is fine for static objects, but I definitely have more difficulty with moving subjects compared with the 40D. I also use only the center AF point. The 5D's outer focus points aren't very reliable - many have reported this - and the AF points are grouped too closely together.

For your type of photography, though, I suspect that the 5D will suit you well Drama. Looking forward to seeing more form you! ;)

drama
06-19-2008, 12:06 AM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3026/2589393245_12ecbf4a85_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3256/2590160144_4348f921fc_b.jpg

-I could never get the purples right, they would oversaturate with the 40D
With the 5D spot on
-Check out the range of BW tones

Rooz
06-19-2008, 12:39 AM
the 40d actually has a wider DR than the 5d. so i dont think the camera had anything to do with those observations. if you notice the colour shot there is a huge range of tones in there due to the filtered light.

unless you run them side by side i dont think its a fair fight for the 40d. cos sometimes the grass can "seem greener" but its actually no different. you just found a camera that a better fit for you.

drama
06-19-2008, 03:06 AM
Rooz

Theoretically, 14 bit VS 12 bit argument is good but in the field, the 5D seems better
I am biased of course :)

michaelb
06-19-2008, 06:06 AM
...unless you run them side by side i dont think its a fair fight for the 40d. cos sometimes the grass can "seem greener" but its actually no different. you just found a camera that a better fit for you.

Exactly. The only way to tell the difference is side by side comparisons and I've done a ton of them. I see no color advantage with the 5D in close comparisons. The 5D shows an advantage at high ISO (although the 40D does fairly well), less DOF which results in more subject isolation and a little better resolution. Any other differences are created by the "bias filter" in your brain, IMO. ;)

Rooz
06-19-2008, 06:19 AM
Rooz

Theoretically, 14 bit VS 12 bit argument is good but in the field, the 5D seems better
I am biased of course :)

i'm talking strictly capability here. the 40d's sensor is "capable" of producing more DR. canon's new sensor in the 40d is like what 3 gens newer than the 5d ?? so only reasonable to suggest they can squeak more tonal range out of it.

for the record...the 40d is around 9 stops, the 5d is just over 8 stops. nothing really statistically relevant...as michael's post pretty much points out aswell. try to pick a difference and you'll REALLY have to pixel peep. if anything though, i'd expect the 40d to deliver ever so slightly more. the only camera that really is statistically far superior in DR is the Fuji S5 which is around 12 stops.

you just found something that fits you better. no amount of technical mumbo jumbo will prove any of this right or wrong. when you really enjoy shooting with something, it comes out thru the shots. thats not the technical proficiency of the camera at all, thats just you being comfortable with it. oh...and shooting the odd colour photo helps too bro. :p

drama
06-19-2008, 09:10 AM
Rooz

I have extensively used the Canon camera system & continue to do so
What is your claim to expertise on the Canon system, any worth while first hand experience?
So you have read a few reviews, can you personally verify their veracity?

What exactly is your interest in the 40D vs 5D comparison?

24Peter
06-19-2008, 10:02 AM
drama - I did notice the 40D was more "punchy" color-wise out of the box than my XT was. It definitely handles color differently, whereas the 5D and XT were much closer in how they rendered color, so I think I know what you're talking about.

That said, in many cases I do find the 40D color to be more pleasing than my XT, though at times I have had to dial down the saturation to get it right.

The other thing I'll say is, neither the 5D, 40D, XT nor any other Canon camera I've seen handles reds/purples correctly. I assume the same is true of Nikon and other cameras that use the Bayer sensors. Compare them with the Sigma Foveon sensor and you get much better reds from the Sigma. Of course the Sigma sensor has a bunch of other limitations/disadvantages compared to Bayer sensors, not the least of which is much lower resolution for the same MP count. But colors are definitely better/true on Foveon cameras.

drama
06-19-2008, 10:23 AM
24 Peter

The reds & purples is exactly what I meant to talk about :)
The XT/XTI/40D, could not handle saturated purples well & I was very happy with how the 5D handled it in comparison
It is not perfect but it is a lot more acceptable

Did you read my mind, you clarivoyant you :D
Thanks

michaelb
06-19-2008, 12:55 PM
I have found that the 40D RAW files are more saturated color wise than the 5D files and this excess saturation can pose a problem, especially with flowers. Just another reason to shoot RAW, IMO, as this is easily fixed by reducing the saturation for very vibrant colors or switching to "neutral" or "faithful" picture style in DPP.

Rooz
06-19-2008, 05:04 PM
Rooz

I have extensively used the Canon camera system & continue to do so
What is your claim to expertise on the Canon system, any worth while first hand experience?
So you have read a few reviews, can you personally verify their veracity?

What exactly is your interest in the 40D vs 5D comparison?

i dont care if you have used the system for 50 years. i dont need to own and even drive a ferrari 355 to know it has 375bhp. sure i cant comment on how GOOD it feels to drive it but whether i have or havent driven it doesnt change the fact that its a 375bhp car and no amount of ferrari fanclub chest beating will change the engines limitations.

so the fact that i dont own or shoot with a 40d/ 5d is not relevant to this discussion. besides which, given you didnt shoot the scene side by side with the 2 different cameras, you have absolutely the same kind of evidence i do. ie: nothing except what you can read about the sensors performance. a sensors limitations are just that...limitations. so when you talk about significant DR improvements by using a 5d over a 40d then i havr to think logically at that statement and consider a few alternatives...

1. you are more comfortable with a 5d and therefore get better results from it.
2. you are getting better as a photographer so you can expose a scene to obtain maximum DR
3. the settings you're using on the 5d are dialled in better than you had them on the 40d.
4. you are imagining the differences
5. your 40d was defective
6. little canon gremlins snuck in at night and swapped your regular 5d's sensor with a super duper HDR drama sensor.

now assuming your 40d was ok, and given the fact that i dont believe in gremlins, then i would think the most plausible answer would be come from options 1-4.

so please drama, dont try and use the "i dont use it extensively" argument. i'm not an idiot so i aint gonna buy it like some might. its irrelevant when talking about this sort of thing...besides which, its juvenile and wayyyy beneath you. unless of course you believe in gremlins...

Rasidel Slika
06-19-2008, 05:11 PM
The other thing I'll say is, neither the 5D, 40D, XT nor any other Canon camera I've seen handles reds/purples correctly. I assume the same is true of Nikon and other cameras that use the Bayer sensors. Compare them with the Sigma Foveon sensor and you get much better reds from the Sigma. Of course the Sigma sensor has a bunch of other limitations/disadvantages compared to Bayer sensors, not the least of which is much lower resolution for the same MP count. But colors are definitely better/true on Foveon cameras.
someone knows what they are talking about :)

the reds/purples on Canon (and other Bayer sensor) SLR's have been their Achille's heels for a while now.

Rasidel Slika
06-19-2008, 05:13 PM
24 Peter

The reds & purples is exactly what I meant to talk about :)
The XT/XTI/40D, could not handle saturated purples well & I was very happy with how the 5D handled it in comparison
It is not perfect but it is a lot more acceptable

Did you read my mind, you clarivoyant you :D
Thanks
5D has the same problem with the reds and purples.

drama
06-19-2008, 09:52 PM
Rooz :
You are right
I am probably letting my bias get the better of me
I am excited by my keeper rate going up & the results I am getting
This probably also has more to do with how the lenses handle on the 5D, not sure

Delobbo:
My results seem to show me that the 5D handles the reds & purples better
Or shall I put it as, I am happier with the 5D's color handling performance

Michaelb:
We are not using the same lenses
That may have a bearing on the result
I have not used the 5D as long as you have, so this may just my initial enthusiasm

Rasidel Slika
06-19-2008, 10:51 PM
it is only a general statement. YMMV

Rooz
06-19-2008, 11:06 PM
no prob drama. all i was actually saying is that it suits you better which is why your getting the results you like. thats all. :)

btw delobbo: both my d80 and d300 also struggle with reds/ purples in 70% of occasions aswell. more so the d80. i'm sure the d70 is the same.

drama
06-19-2008, 11:24 PM
Thanks rooz :)
I was a bit anxious about backing the 5D, hence the over enthusiasm

cwphoto
06-20-2008, 01:09 AM
it is only a general statement. YMMV

Yeah the reds on Canons sometimes look a bit over-bearing.

Drama: great news on the camera and glad to see you're getting a lot of joy out of it. It's going to go down in history as a milestone camera I reckon.

drama
06-20-2008, 04:01 AM
Drama: great news on the camera and glad to see you're getting a lot of joy out of it. It's going to go down in history as a milestone camera I reckon.

Thanks, it is bringing me lots of joy :)