ultra-compact cam for taking nature scenes

[keepcoding]

Hi everybody!

Actually I'm looking for a camera with these features:


Budget
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* What budget have you allocated for buying this camera? Please be as specific as possible.
-> less than 400$

Size
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* What size camera are you looking for? Or does size not matter at all to you?
-> Ultra-Compact (~11 x 6 x 3.5 cm is OK)

Features
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How many megapixels will suffice for you?
-> between 7 and 12

* What optical zoom will you need? (None, Standard = 3x-4x, Ultrazoom = 10x-12x, Other - Specify)
-> at least 4x

* How important is “image quality” to you? (Rate using a scale of 1-10)
-> Very important (9/10)

Do you care for manual controls?
-> would be nice, especially shutter speed..

General Usage
----------
* What will you generally use the camera for?
-> photos of landscapes, nature but also towns (trekking camera)

* Will you be making big prints of your photos or not?
-> not really

Will you be shooting a lot of indoor photos or low light photos?
-> not indoor, but low-light (night scene with reflections on the water!)

Will you be shooting sports and/or action photos?
-> no

Miscellaneous
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Are there particular brands you like or hate?
-> I like Fuji, Canon, Panasonic and Sony. But doesn't really matter ;)

Are there particular models you already have in mind?
-> Lumic TZ5, Lumix FX500 and Canon PowerShot SD870 IS

(If applicable) Do you need any of the following special features? (Wide Angle, Image Stabilization, Weatherproof, Hotshoe, Rotating LCD)
-> Wide Angle
-> robust case (good for travelling)

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-> Note: Camera should be able to take such a photo:
http://tinyurl.com/2rkx2o

----------

Thanks in advance!

[David Metsky]

The photo that you linked to requires a tripod and long shutter speed. Of the cameras you mentioned, only the FX500 has manual control over the shutter speed. There aren't many ultracompacts with manual controls, so your choices are going to be very limited.

Looking at the Reviews & Info page and searching on Wide Angle and Manual Exposure, the FX500 is the smallest camera by far. It would seem to be your only choice unless you want to soften your requirements.

[keepcoding]

Hm, but wouldn't it be possible to take such a photo with the tz5 in automatic mode? I wonder whether there are automatic modes which could manage longer shutter time (in day light) in order to take photos of running water so that it looks like cotton afterwards..

[David Metsky]

You might be able to do it with Starry Night mode, which allows 15, 30, and 60 second exposures, but I don't know how that would work in daylight. In most waterfall scenes, 15 seconds would be too long, the shot would be overexposed. There's also a minimum exposure control, allowing you to set minimum exposure to as long as 1 sec.

Either of those may get you what you want in some situations, but you would certainly be able to do better if you had full manual controls. Again, if this type of shooting is important for you then I think you'd be happier with full manual controls.

[keepcoding]

Are you sure that it is possible to set shutter speed manually up to 1 second for the tz5?

Another question: I read somewhere that it is necessary to use ND8 or similar filters in order to take photos with a longer shutter speed by daylight. My question now is: Are there compact-cameras with integrated filters or is it possible to optionally buy such filters for e.g. a Lumix TZ5??

[David Metsky]

All this information is in the review posted here (http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/panasonic/dmc_tz5-review/). The lens isn't threaded and doesn't support add on filters.

The minimum shutter speed functionality was described as:

Minimum shutter speed (1/200, 1/125, 1/60, 1/30, 1/15, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 1 sec) - slowest shutter speed the camera will use
Now that I reread it, this is the opposite of what I thought. So this won't help you.

Again, if you want to take pictures like the one linked in your OP, you want manual controls. Anything less and you'll be frustrated. The ability to take add-on lenses and filters would be nice as well, but not an absolute requirement.

[KCook]

Another ultracompact with manual controls (shutter up to 16sec) is the new Samsung NV40. But I'm clueless on how it compares to the Panys.

Kelly Cook

[keepcoding]

Thx for your answers!

NV40 has no wide angle.. what a pity.

I read somewhere that the Canon Powershot SD870 IS is a camera with wide angle and some (limited) manual controls.. So I'm not sure whether It's really possible to set apperture and shutter speed.. Does anybody no something about that?

[KCook]

None of the Canon SD series have manual controls. When somebody says "limited" they mean you can set the ISO, metering method, and white balance. Not aperture or shutter speed. This is typical practice for ultracompact models for all brands, not just Canon. Exceptions are rare, a few Panasonic models (as David already noted), plus several Samsung cameras.

Move up out of the ultracompact range to compact designs and you will find many more cameras with true manual control.

I haven't tried the ND filter game to "fool" an ultracompact into a nighttime setting. Might work, but don't count on it with all cameras. Each camera brand has a different logic, or mapping, for determining its auto exposure settings.

Kelly

[Ken.]

You have some interesting criteria. For the blur effect and low light you need manual controls so I'd look at the high end Canon A's or the Fuji F series. If you can tick over the price mark a Canon G9 would do. These are not ultra compact but not big, hard to carry cameras.

[keepcoding]

hm, I'm sure that the Canon G9 really is a good camera, but It's really big. I don't want to carry it always in a seperate bag..
So at the moment my favourites are Samsung NV24 HD and Panasonic FX500. Both they have "full" manual control. What do you think, is the image quality much worse than that of e.g. the Canon G9?
I don't think that (especially the fx500) is such a bad cam..

[KCook]

I expect we will see a lot of reviews of the FX500. The first of these has just come out. And it was not impressed with the sensor performance, in view of the high price of the camera. Oh well.

Kelly

[P_Schneider]

Well for fuji I would take a look at the z100fd for the ultra class. It lacks the manual controls that you want but should fit the bill on your other requirements. Stepping up a bit in size from that I would look for a f30/31 if you could find one, they are discontinued now but can still be had on the web. The f100fd is the current f series cam that's being offered and it will meet your needs without being too big I think and it has all of the manual controls you want.

[keepcoding]

thx for your answer.
well, the z100fd looks pretty nice, but the focal range is 36 to 180mm and I won't miss a 28mm lens;)
for the f100fd: Where did you read that there are manual controls? Everywhere in reviews I read that the f100fd is a point-and-shoot camera, so there is no way to set shutter speed and apperture manually. Btw, do you have a f100fd?
If this camera could really take photos like that one I posted at the beginning then I would immediately buy it ;)

Oh yes, the fx500 gets good overall results in reviews, but it's weakness seams always to be the image quality.. what a pity. I don't understand Panasonic. Why is it so difficult to use larger CCD's??

[KCook]

Fair question on the CCD size. Even my $160 Fuji has a 1/ 1.6-inch CCD.

Kelly

[keepcoding]

I just wrote a mail to Panasonic with that question:D I wonder if and what they'll answer..

[KCook]

In principle a slimline case for an ultracompact leaves the lens designer little room for a big zoom. Thus a smaller CCD is an easier design target for a zoom with a lot of range. Little problem for my modest Fuji, but its zoom is only 3X. Physics does not give us a free lunch. A wide angle zoom with big range stuffed into a slim case is going to compromise something.

[tkbslc]

If you can compromise a bit on size, the Canon A720IS or A570IS would probably be a great choice for you performance wise. Lots of manual controls, Image Stabilization, and you could even tweak it a little more with CHDK if you so desired.