What would you CUT from a DCRP review?

[Jeff Keller]

This is going to sound a bit strange, but here goes. We are facing increased competitions from other sites that are posting shorter, less detailed reviews. Since they are able to turn them around quicker, they get posted online well before I get my review done.

In order to stay competitive, I've been thinking about cutting back on the details in the reviews. Not because I particularly want to (though less work is always nice), but because these other sites are beating us to the punch, and taking traffic that might have been ours a few years ago.

So, do we: not change a thing? Cut out certain parts of the reviews? Or something else entirely?

Thanks for your feedback!

[Rhys]

This is going to sound a bit strange, but here goes. We are facing increased competitions from other sites that are posting shorter, less detailed reviews. Since they are able to turn them around quicker, they get posted online well before I get my review done.

In order to stay competitive, I've been thinking about cutting back on the details in the reviews. Not because I particularly want to (though less work is always nice), but because these other sites are beating us to the punch, and taking traffic that might have been ours a few years ago.

So, do we: not change a thing? Cut out certain parts of the reviews? Or something else entirely?

Thanks for your feedback!

I think I'd keep to basically the same format.

To shorten the time taken to write the reviews, instead of taking the cameras to the riverbank to take photos, why not just do the night shots from your bedroom window? Perhaps even set up a night-like scene in your studio and test the exposure on that? That, to me, would save you a ton of time. It's very nice to see photos of places around san francisco but since all cameras these days are pretty good, why not do your testing under more climate-controlled conditions in a studio. It would save a lot of time - the time taken to go to locations etc must count in the hours.

[Vich]

This is going to sound a bit strange, but here goes. We are facing increased competitions from other sites that are posting shorter, less detailed reviews. Since they are able to turn them around quicker, they get posted online well before I get my review done.

In order to stay competitive, I've been thinking about cutting back on the details in the reviews. Not because I particularly want to (though less work is always nice), but because these other sites are beating us to the punch, and taking traffic that might have been ours a few years ago.

So, do we: not change a thing? Cut out certain parts of the reviews? Or something else entirely?

Thanks for your feedback!So; you don't mind the extra work, it's just not feasible.

Do you get the sample gear in time for faster turn-around? If so; I'd say do quick-reviews right away (within 2 weeks of release) but keep up with the Consumer Reports style extended review within say, 2 months of release date.

Problem there is not having the camera twice.

How about this. Take up to 10 cameras into the field simultaneously, have a checklist of each, take careful notes that can be constructed into a full review within 2 months but do the quick write-up for all 10 immediately.

It would be helpful to create a standard review form that lets you make comments etc.

So; spend maybe 2 or 3 days with all 10 cameras filling in the checklists and making all the notes. Cram the executive summary into the next 3 or 4 days. Then you have a few weeks to complete the full write-ups from your notes.

[AdamW]

Jeff-- How about an initial brief "preview" that hits some of the major points? Then you can later do a complete review as your time permits, while having something on the site as soon as possible.

[nism]

yea maybe have a preview that quickly summarises changes made from previous models, brief overview of how functions work, and a quick spec comparison to other cameras in a similar class
then do the full review with photographic tests, etc later

[TheWengler]

I almost never read the software review section or the menu section. The Look and Feel section is nice, but I don't think you need to review what every button does. When reading a review, I'm most concerned about the cameras performance. Things that don't pertain directly to that, I tend to skip over.

Edit: I think if you have to write a short review around a cameras release and a full review later then you'd have even more work, not less.

[AdamW]

I almost never read the software review section or the menu section. The Look and Feel section is nice, but I don't think you need to review what every button does. When reading a review, I'm most concerned about the cameras performance. Things that don't pertain directly to that, I tend to skip over.

Edit: I think if you have to write a short review around a cameras release and a full review later then you'd have even more work, not less.

I agree about the software section. I could also do without the details of every menu--just your take on how easy it is to navigate the menu system.

If what's in the preview is what you'd already include in the regular review, it would be a matter of adding to the preview rather than doing additional work.

[Beowulff]

Generally speaking, I'm more than happy with your reviews — and their timeliness Jeff. I particularly like your idea of having everything on a single page, so I can scroll up and down quickly if I wanna recheck something later on in the review.

Like a couple of the other guys have said, I don't take much (any?) notice of the (included) software write-up , as I'm guessing that a lot of us use our own flavour of software anyway, and often the camera's software is pretty primitive I reckon. So yeah; a lot less detail and screenshots of the included software would be my only dissection.

Maybe just let's know what it is by name and version?

And for what it's worth, DCRP is the first tab that opens under my photo reviews toolbar, so don't be too concerned about your competition!

Cheers :)

[Margus]

Do not cut a thing, not even the generally boring software overviews, plz :)
Everyone can skip the parts of less interest when they are checking the reviews with no particular purpose of actually buying the reviewed camera. But things change radically if you have a specific camera on your wish list. Every bit of information about what you will get for your money is highly appreciated then.
I don't think that you need to be worried about other sites posting shorter reviews faster. The sites which just copy the information published at manufactures web sites and title their copy-paste as "reviews" are pretty useless. If you are actually worried about the number of reviews you can prepare in a month then I would suggest you to rethink the idea of doing everything by yourself.

[Rhys]

I suspect the software reviews may be of more use to compact owners rather than to dSLR owners who are generally much more proficient and have their own choice of software. It might be perhaps an idea to partner with Google Picassa and promote that rather than review the software at all?

[Ken.]

From a pro point of view the software reviews are nice but I've yet to see one bit of included software I'd actually use. The majority of images will end up in Adobe at some point. From a consumer point of view, Picasa for Window and iPhoto for Mac blows the doors off anything I've seen come out of a box.

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

I love your reviews and they're what led me to this site that I love so much (thank you Jeff - sorry you can't spend thanks).

If you removed details from your reviews so you can post them quicker your site may not rank so well for google searches. Just a thought.

I'd suggest the format per se is fine but that you give too many details. When you're doing the work keep in mind the intended use of the information by the audience. If it doesn't contribute to the message (and just hides the gist in mounds of text) leave it out. I think your premise is to make it easy to compare cameras, I think you've allowed yourself to start writing manuals on individual cameras.

What I like most is the uniform review format. It was invaluable to be able compare the D80/D300/D40X/400D/XTi all on the same parameters. Took me a week to read all your reviews and formulate cohesive opinions but thats another matter.

Looking back at the D300 review from your site. There is a massive software section that has been personally written at great effort and does not contribute much to my buying decision. It actually looks a bit like a manual which isn't the point of the excercise is it. A couple screenshots as you turn the software on would make people feel they've seen the software and been heaps easier to write. A few well chosen words whether you like it, why it's better or worse than others and you'd be done in a paragraph or two.

The other thing I notice is you've almost a written a manual on the D300 menu's too. A couple screenshots so you get the idea would have been fine and heaps faster to do. We're reading to get an idea not to read the manual before buying.

So provided the format from camera to camera is consistent then you can do with a lot less details and still be very usefull to your audience.

Just my opinion, don't take offence you're doing heaps better than I could. I hope it helps.

[Turn]

I don't read the software part either and I think screenshots would be sufficient

[raven15]

I also don't read the software reviews or the menu sections. I figure I don't use the software either way, and all the menus will be of similar complexity, provided the feature I want is in there somewhere.

I don't think you should cut out either section. But since software is usually updated sporadically, maybe you should make a "software" section for each manufacturer, then post a link: "you can find a description of the included software here." That would take less time and save some wear on the ol' scroll wheel for readers. You might be able to do that with other things, too.

I don't read menus, but I did when first looking at cameras, so they might as well stay, though they could be toned down a bit. The conclusion is also longer than it needs to be, a bit redundant maybe. Not bad, but if you have to trim something.... maybe use cut and paste more, cameras from many manufacturers are similar.

Keep the pictures, and the feel in the hands part for sure.

[Rex914]

As a longtime reader (when the reviews were green (http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/kodak/dc280-review/index.html)), I've always enjoyed your reviews. I'll try not to repeat what's already been said, but here's what I think could be cut.

- Bundled software. Even though some of this is carried over from review to review, it could stand to be cut from reviews since it contributes to length.

- Your conclusions have gotten noticeably longer in the past year or two. While this is the part that people jump to most, it's really gotten to the point where the conclusion is a review in itself.

- For DSLR reviews, drop the redeye test. It's pretty irrelevant to most DSLR owners.

Now, a list of things I would improve upon or emphasize. Not necessarily is going to make reviews quicker, but will improve the user experience.

- Rethink your review layout. Right now, it's a monolithic page. I hate the multi-page format that DPR and others use because it requires loading a different page, but a nice compromise is to use a tabbed layout in which all of the content is loaded on one page, and flipping tabs simply hides or shows the appropriate content.

- Spend more time cross-comparing cameras that people will likely compare at the store. You do this for DSLR's and sometimes for high end compacts. Do it more throughout. Alternatively, to save time, in lieu of 4 reviews, why not do a combined "shoot out" review that takes care of several cameras at a time, should you be given the chance to?

- DSLR users are the most vocal, but don't forget that you built this site by catering to normal users. Without a doubt, DCRP is still the best there is for compact camera reviews (DPR does nice reviews, but they're effectively compact reviews for DSLR users - wrong focus!). You should take advantage of this.

[JPW2020]

Jeff,I enjoy your reviews as they are,both in terms of content and format,particularly the single page display.Whilst I tend to agree with others who gloss over much of the software review section,presumably much of the software review for each manufacturer is repeated from earlier reviews adapted for the camera you are looking at,so I suspect may not be the most labour intensive part of the review.

My only comment is that your review format is pretty much the same for the most basic compact camera up to semi-pro DSLRs.Would it perhaps now be time to consider a less detailed review for,say entry level compacts that can be produced more quickly.Perhaps cut down on the sample pictures for these,cut out the nightshot(Many of these cameras cant be set up for the nightshot anyway), reduce the camera details if that is feasible and perhaps omit the software description other than basic details?

I would have thought that the potential buyer for that type of camera would not necessarily be looking for the level of detail you provide,more the conclusion to establish if it is worth buying.

Food for thought maybe?.

[shahmatt]

Potential camera buyers are more likely to be looking at comparisons between cameras rather than a complete detail of just one. It's all a relative measure anyway isn't it? What is the best deal I can get for a particular price point. Having said this, I do like the very detailed reviews that you produce because:

1. I'm not in a hurry and I will take my time reading the review.
2. I am not looking to buy a camera right now,

Potential camera buyers will probably not be in the same frame of mind, and will probably be in more of a hurry.

Here are my suggestions:

1. Include a quick link feature on top of your page so that if I click 'Look and Feel', if will shoot to that section of the page.

2. The battery life menu should be sorted according Battery life, not name of camera, as it is now.

3. Develop a feature that allows comparisons of your standard ISO tests between cameras.

4. I'm pretty sure that much of the software that comes bundled with a camera is standard, and is common within a brand. Why don't you open up a software section with a list of software and corresponding review and produce a link to this from your review page. In this way, material will not need to be repeated, and it will make your review more concise. Put in any additional comments into your review page.

5. The various types of image qualities (resolutions), and the menu system does not seem to be important. You should only put in a review of the menu system in terms of ease of use and comments about its comprehensiveness. I'm sure that the manual of the camera has all this information anyway, if you have a softcopy of the manual, you could perhaps produce a link to it from the review page.

Good luck!

[shahmatt]

I also feel that some extra activity in the website would be good. How about a themed photographic competition with prizes? There have been so many awesome photos posted in the forums.

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

I also feel that some extra activity in the website would be good. How about a themed photographic competition with prizes? There have been so many awesome photos posted in the forums.

I know it's not cutting from the reviews but I think that would add to the site if you could find a sponsor for example to print the image as a prize. It might encourage more sponsorship of other parts of the site but I wouldn't know. Also the competition doesn't have to be photographic like many other magazines/sites do. Any "competition" or "prize" could be for the most helpful reply. Some of the "old timers" here have occasionally got a bee in their bonnet and posted long comprehensive and extremely enlightening replies to enquiries.

Competitions can be a bit subjective & time consuming to judge and people can get hurt feelings if they don't win but something to think about perhaps.

[@dam]

Cut out anything about included software, and maybe about the cameras menu system unless it is particularly notable (e.g. touchscreen)

This is going to sound a bit strange, but here goes. We are facing increased competitions from other sites that are posting shorter, less detailed reviews. Since they are able to turn them around quicker, they get posted online well before I get my review done.

In order to stay competitive, I've been thinking about cutting back on the details in the reviews. Not because I particularly want to (though less work is always nice), but because these other sites are beating us to the punch, and taking traffic that might have been ours a few years ago.

So, do we: not change a thing? Cut out certain parts of the reviews? Or something else entirely?

Thanks for your feedback!

[cdifoto]

Their reviews may be shorter and out faster, but yours are complete. People will wait a little bit when they know a real review is coming. Don't change a thing about your actual review. Just rethink your logistics. Long after the smoke clears after being "first", you'll still be the source for more extensive (ie useful) information and not just a copy & paste of specifications.

In other words, the entire reason those "other sites" are faster is that they're all the same. They don't tell a potential buyer anything they can't get from reading the product's box or manufacturer's promotional schtick.

If it's about the workload, you need to look into hiring some staffers.

[Beowulff]

This is a very well made point.Their reviews may be shorter and out faster, but yours are complete.....
They don't tell a potential buyer anything they can't get from reading the product's box or manufacturer's promotional schtick.....
One other (nameless!) review site basically does a cut 'n' paste of the manufacturer's press release, even to using identical over-superlative (and therefore meaningless) phrases to describe the camera. Even their assessments of their sample images lacks any real depth or technical insight, beyond saying simply it's a "nice" image.

Cheers :)

[faisal]

don't change anything....seriously!!!

[pianoplayer88key]

Ok.... so this may be wishful thinking... (for example... do Jeff, Phil, Dave or Steve get review cameras long enough before embargo expires to do this?)....
It'd be nice to see a full in-depth review from each of the 4 sites whose owners I've named, THE SAME DAY the camera is announced, or, at the latest, maybe a few days before it becomes available for sale.
(And, when I say in-depth review... I mean a FULL in-depth review (like what's typical for a high-end full-frame SLR from a top brand), not a concise / express review (typical for a fully-automatic point-&-shoot for a no-name product, if it's even lucky enough to be mentioned on the site). (Of course, if there's some feature that the point-&-shoot doesn't have, then that wouldn't need to be reviewed, obviously (except, if competing models or higher end models HAVE the feature, maybe mentioning its omission).
Oh.. and this would be for EVERY camera mentioned on the site. :D
I guess it'd up Jeff's workload a bit too much, though. :(

[TheWengler]

Piano man, don't you think you're being a little too demanding? When you go to a restaurant (I'm assuming you're willing to pay to eat out) how often do you send the food back because it isn't perfect?

Since P&S cameras get replaced every couple days it seems, and Jeff lists nearly all of them on this site, don't you think it's ridiculous to review all of them? Especially when groups of them aren't very different from each other. For example the Canon A series.

I think you're abusing the parentheses too. You used so many, I don't even think they match up.

[Beowulff]

With all due respect pianoplayer, the title and purpose of this thread was about what to cut from Jeff's reviews, and not meant to be a platform for forum members to sound off about all their pet dislikes and wants about the site! What you're suggesting would, contrarily, create more work for Jeff. Which is, to most people anyway, precisely what we don't wanna do!

The current quality of Jeff's reviews is, in my humble opinion, without peer — even when compared to some camera review sites that have several full-time reviewers on staff, or are funded by those South American jungle folk! :p

What you're suggesting is totally improbable for all and/or any review sites I'm afraid..... unless you're living in some alternative universe that we're not aware of here?

Cheers :)

[pianoplayer88key]

Actually... I DO like his reviews. It'd be nice if he had help, though, so more cameras could be reviewed in-depth, or the reviews could be turned out faster. (No, I don't feel qualified to review cameras.) (Even if not every camera gets reviewed, it'd be nice to see SOME (and not just SLRs) reviewed before they're available in stores.)

[Rooz]

i think jeff so do a full in-depth review of rumours aswell as pianoplayers "concept cameras".

[Jeff Keller]

Ok.... so this may be wishful thinking... (for example... do Jeff, Phil, Dave or Steve get review cameras long enough before embargo expires to do this?)....
It'd be nice to see a full in-depth review from each of the 4 sites whose owners I've named, THE SAME DAY the camera is announced, or, at the latest, maybe a few days before it becomes available for sale.


That used to be possible, but now I usually get a camera weeks past the announcement date. It's too bad, since it's really good PR for the manufacturer to have reviews ready on launch day.

[cdifoto]

That used to be possible, but now I usually get a camera weeks past the announcement date. It's too bad, since it's really good PR for the manufacturer to have reviews ready on launch day.
Exactly. Ya can't review what ya don't have in your hands.

[sw2cam]

Jeff this is not to be rude, but this site is rather slow to start with. It does not get the traffic other sites do. So my thought is, why worry about the other sites and how fast they post a review. If you want traffic open the site up to other email addresses. Ban the brand haters that roam from forum to forum bashing one brand or another no matter how suttle they try to be about it. I own two boards and mod on four others and it's alot of work trying to keep track of whats going on.

[Jeff Keller]

Jeff this is not to be rude, but this site is rather slow to start with. It does not get the traffic other sites do. So my thought is, why worry about the other sites and how fast they post a review. If you want traffic open the site up to other email addresses. Ban the brand haters that roam from forum to forum bashing one brand or another no matter how suttle they try to be about it. I own two boards and mod on four others and it's alot of work trying to keep track of whats going on.

Actually this site is very competitive with other sites in terms of traffic, save for DP Review. I don't consider people who have problems with a camera "brand haters", and what that has to do with site traffic.

[sw2cam]

Umm I don't consider people who have problems with a camera brand haters.

[jetrim]

So my thought is, why worry about the other sites and how fast they post a review.

I am a certified newbie here, and to digital photography in general but I also manage a number of forum sites on topics unrelated to photography, and as hard as it is to force yourself to do, this is golden advice. This site has arguably the best reviews out there - concentrate on that and sell it, don't worry about what the other forums are doing. It's hard, believe me, but it works.

FWIW... I'm here because I checked out a bunch of places and liked this one the best, not just for the content (which is excellent) but the sense of community in the forums, so you ARE doing something right!

[Turn]

I just think we should emphasize DCResource's importance instead of everyone knowing either CNET or Dpreview

really, everyone I ask reads either of the two and has never heard of DCR when I find DCR the most interesting to read

[JPW2020]

I just think we should emphasize DCResource's importance instead of everyone knowing either CNET or Dpreview

really, everyone I ask reads either of the two and has never heard of DCR when I find DCR the most interesting to read

Couldn't agree more with both of the last 2 postings.Maybe this site doesn't have the traffic of Dpreview but I know where I turn first if I want an informative and readable review.

As to the forums when I first posted after a period of lurking I felt welcome and still do.I'm an intermittent poster but if I feel I have something to contribute this is the place.

There do seem to be more camera review sites out there now, we are in a period of economic downturn and I dare say DCR and all the other camera review sites are not immune from the effects of this.It follows that you've got to move with the times to stay competitive and Jeff will have my support whatever his decision might be.