Grand Theft Auto 4 is destroying our youth!

[Nickcanada]

The new installment of the very popular series Grand Theft Auto is out and reading a bit about it online I found some people complaining about the blurry background..... in other words the bohke. :rolleyes:

Forget about the violence and nudity it's the decline in cinematic appreciation I worry about!

Seriously though video games have come a long way. They are more like interactive movies now.

I bought Grand Turismo 5.... what a beautiful game! Excellent racing simulator simply amazing physics and great graphics. Video games are turning into a legitimate art form.

[DonSchap]

And to think ... MYST was some kind of "extraordinarily beautiful" game.

35679

I agree ... a long way, it has come, I would say. :D

[JTL]

Beuaty in a video game? Call of Duty 4 is a masterpiece! ;)

[AtlPikMan]

Beuaty in a video game? Call of Duty 4 is a masterpiece! ;)

I CONCUR....

[Nickcanada]

Myst is a great game no doubt.

I haven't played COD 4, but I have heard good things. I'll put it on the list. ;) I'm not much of a first person shooter person.... I'm not much of a video game person period but the better the games look the more interested I get.

[Paradox]

And to think ... MYST was some kind of "extraordinarily beautiful" game.

Thanks for posting that...you dragged up a whole ream of memories mentioning that game! That takes me back probably 8-9 years, which considering my current age is a damn long time.

[24Peter]

Thanks for posting that...you dragged up a whole ream of memories mentioning that game! That takes me back probably 8-9 years, which considering my current age is a damn long time.

Re: Myst - Likewise (I'm sure :o)

[DonSchap]

1995 was when it won all its accolades ... how long ago was that? The math is kind of scary :eek: Worse yet, I remember when "PONG" was released ... back when I was 19. Now, that's just god-awful! LOL ... and believe me ... that was not pretty! B&W ... no color.

35680


Yep, digital has come a long, long way. The above image, even as course as it looks small ... took up the entire screen ... with four-bit graphics ... from a four-bit processor! The awesome 2K ROM that ran the thing was larger than most multi-thread processors we use these days ... and required a circuit board and power supply the size of a small PC.

This was serious nighttime entertainment ... 1977-style.

[Honest Gaza]

Oh well...if we're going to reminisce,

I remember when PC graphics cards went from CGA to EGA (a whopping 16 colours). When I went to purchase a new PC, I took Battle Chess with me to ensure that the PC could indeed display all these new colours.

From there, the graphic ability of games took off. I remember being amazed by the movement of the character in Prince of Persia and how he could hang on by his finger tips and "slide" across the floor.

Strangely enough, I used to enjoy a very simple golf game called PGA Golf which looking back now was so ordinary that the ball was square...but I could play it for hours. Then it went to full 3-D graphics in the next releases and I lost interest as it took too long to upgrade screens. :(

....and why is it that whenever Graphics Cards were improved (ie EGA to VGA to SVGA to XGA.....), we would all stand around the screen while someone displayed the latest naked women shots and pretend to marvel at the quality of the graphics. "Wow, it looks just like a photo" we would exclaim.....and pretend we weren't captivated by the lovely titties on the screen :p :D

[Visual Reality]

The new installment of the very popular series Grand Theft Auto is out and reading a bit about it online I found some people complaining about the blurry background..... in other words the bohke. :rolleyes:

Forget about the violence and nudity it's the decline in cinematic appreciation I worry about!

Seriously though video games have come a long way. They are more like interactive movies now.

I bought Grand Turismo 5.... what a beautiful game! Excellent racing simulator simply amazing physics and great graphics. Video games are turning into a legitimate art form.
So you got the preview huh. What do you think of it? I'm waiting for the full release of GT5. I'd love to have a wheel setup for it.

[VTEC_EATER]

Wow, that Pong image brings up memories of digging up the old Atari system from a basement closet. We couldn't get many games to work, and only one of the controllers still functioned, but oh my... I cant believe we used to consider those graphics... well... graphics!

I tried playing some tank game where you drive this funny square box that is supposed to be a tank, and you shoot a smaller square box at other larger boxes (which are supposed to be other tanks). For the first few minutes, I didn't even know who or what was my tank. These little squares kept flying around the screen, and I had no idea what they were. I thought the game was on the fritz, but in fact it was other tanks shooting at me!

Wow. It amazes me that I used to think that system kicked ass back when I was a kid.

[Rhys]

Hang on, Honest Gaza, I remember before CGA when we had wire-frame boxes on green screens. CGA was luxury on our 286 based machines.

[Bynx]

Im not much of a gamer on a computer. There were never enough kinds of games I liked. Myst and its sequels were incredible. Code breaking games and games of discovery like Titanic and 7th Guest kept me busy for hours -- thinking, not shooting. I did enjoy Medal of Honor but that involved more than just shooting. There was strategy as well. My first computer was a VIC-20 so we have evolved a bit since then.

[VTEC_EATER]

Im not much of a gamer on a computer. There were never enough kinds of games I liked. Myst and its sequels were incredible. Code breaking games and games of discovery like Titanic and 7th Guest kept me busy for hours -- thinking, not shooting. I did enjoy Medal of Honor but that involved more than just shooting. There was strategy as well. My first computer was a VIC-20 so we have evolved a bit since then.

The 7th Guest was cool. I also had the 11th Hour (a sequel to the game) and that one was pretty good as well. I don't think I finished that one though.

[nism]

So you got the preview huh. What do you think of it? I'm waiting for the full release of GT5. I'd love to have a wheel setup for it.

i bought the wheel for GT4 and it is lots of fun when you get used to it
but i think it might be some time before it graces GT5 and the PS3 :(

[Honest Gaza]

Hang on, Honest Gaza, I remember before CGA when we had wire-frame boxes on green screens. CGA was luxury on our 286 based machines.

Damn...you're talking a whopping great 10M HDD now (on my XT), and put away the 5 1/4 inch Floppies :p :D

[Rhys]

Damn...you're talking a whopping great 10M HDD now (on my XT), and put away the 5 1/4 inch Floppies :p :D

I still have a few 5.25" single sided and double-sided floppies. I remember converting single-sided to double sided with the aid of a pen knife and some tape.

I also remember using the Commodore 1520 floppy drive. It held a massive 120K on the world's only SERIAL ACCESS 5.25" drive.

Hands up if you remember Clive Sinclair's QL with the ZX Microdrive which was essentially little endless tape units.

[Nickcanada]

So far I'm loving GT5P (Grand Turismo 5 prologue) They are coming out with a dedicated wheel for the game in May, it should be available right now in some places. but the Logitec G25 is compatible with the PS3 and has an actual 6 speed H shifter that can be mounted beside you.... like this.

http://bobearlracing.com/Pics/Shifter-Mount-Rear3-small.gif

now I would love one of those! who needs a nice car eh! For those who aren't familiar with these steering wheels, they are pretty cool. They have "force feedback" so when you take a corner you can feel resistance in the wheel. They have a clutch pedal and a proper shifter which is compatible with grand turismo.

oh and the steering wheel for GT5 will not have the H gate shifter just that stupid up down click thing.... no thanks!

[01514]

i'm playing GT too but still only GT4 missing 0.02 % to finish it :)
how abt that wheel Nick :) http://jalopnik.com/cars/gadgets/porsche-911-steering+wheel-controller-for-ps3-305637.php

[Turn]

Beuaty in a video game? Call of Duty 4 is a masterpiece! ;)

I disagree

GTA IV is excellent and not destroying our youth

[NewTekBuzz]

I am a big gamer... I love the FPS (First Person Shooter) style & driving games.
I do have to say that wii just picked up the Nintendo Wii... what a BLAST. I think it is a great idea, it gets kids off there rumps. Its not all about the eye candy... its about interaction and 2-4 player fun.

My 2 cents on the GTA... its a piece of SH!T and is doing nothing for our kids.

[adam75south]

as much of a computer tekkie as i am, i just never got into playing them on the computer.

always console gaming.

that said, the last two games i REALLY got into were halo(1) and grand theft auto vice city. i did play halo 2 online for a moth or so, but nothing like halo 1 and gta vice city.

the concept of gta is amazing. being able to do "whatever you want" is just too awesome. i spent most of my time running people over that were walking down the sidewalk and running from the cops, but i don't know if i grew out of it...or if i just don't have the time to game anymore. probably a little of both.

yea i know a pointless post, but i honestly don't think it's messing with kids or anything like that. maybe making them fat, but that's a whole nother discussion all together.

[michaelb]

gta vice city.

the concept of gta is amazing. being able to do "whatever you want" is just too awesome. i spent most of my time running people over that were walking down the sidewalk and running from the cops, but i don't know if i grew out of it...or if i just don't have the time to game anymore. probably a little of both.

My wife won't let me get any of these :(, but some friends of mine have GTA and its a total blast, although admittedly quite immoral They have kids and they let them play it but they aren't allowed to kill anyone. Its hillarious to watch them play - driving nicely down the street, like their on a Sunday drive!! I, on the other hand, drive the tank and try to take down the Police chopper with RPG's!!

[adam75south]

yea my whole goal was just to get to 6 stars without dying half the time.

if i was a parent, there'd be NO WAY i'd let my kids play those games though, they wouldn't be watching R rated movies, and they wouldn't be playing M rated games. some parents seem to be fine with letting their kids veg out in front of the tv, internet, and video games. i'm not saying i'd do much better, but at the same time you also don't see me with any kids. i'm smart enough to know i wouldn't do a very good job and keep myself out of that situation. wow, rant over.

[Nickcanada]

Something I haven't seen before in GTA is you can now pick up hookers and go to strip clubs... you don't get to see any virtual nakedness but the stuff they were saying and doing..... I don't think I'm old enough to see and hear! I definitely would not let my kid get 100 ft from this game.

[Rhys]

yea my whole goal was just to get to 6 stars without dying half the time.

if i was a parent, there'd be NO WAY i'd let my kids play those games though, they wouldn't be watching R rated movies, and they wouldn't be playing M rated games. some parents seem to be fine with letting their kids veg out in front of the tv, internet, and video games. i'm not saying i'd do much better, but at the same time you also don't see me with any kids. i'm smart enough to know i wouldn't do a very good job and keep myself out of that situation. wow, rant over.

My concern is more that children are exposed to killing and violence being portrayed as the solution to all problems. My stepson is 10 and I'd love to take him up to the shooting range and let him have a go at some targets with a bb gun and maybe a .22LR. The way he says people should be shot and killed makes me not want to do this and he gets all this rubbish from video games and TV. This is how those brats at Columbine started out although to be fair, my stepson is most definitely not an introvert.

[adam75south]

what are you talking aboot nick? you could pick up hookers in part 3 and strip clubs in vice city.

[Nickcanada]

I never played vice city so it was new to me. I don't remember hookers in part 3 at least not hookers you could have sex with in your car. Could you take two girls into a private room in the strip club in vice city?

[01514]

they had all that and more in san adreas :)

[01514]

My concern is more that children are exposed to killing and violence being portrayed as the solution to all problems. My stepson is 10 and I'd love to take him up to the shooting range and let him have a go at some targets with a bb gun and maybe a .22LR. The way he says people should be shot and killed makes me not want to do this and he gets all this rubbish from video games and TV. This is how those brats at Columbine started out although to be fair, my stepson is most definitely not an introvert.

well GTA is not for kids it says on the box M for mature so if kids are playing it and getting stupid ideas then we should blame the parents for letting them play . trhats how I see it :)

[Rhys]

well GTA is not for kids it says on the box M for mature so if kids are playing it and getting stupid ideas then we should blame the parents for letting them play . trhats how I see it :)

Little Johnny can't play bad games at his own house because his parents won't buy them for him. Thus, he goes over to the dropout drug dealer house and plays it on their children's system because they are so stoned they don't care what their children play.

[adam75south]

again, parents need to know where their kids are at all times. we can't just make everything g rated to make our lives easier(speaking as a maybe future parent).

and yea nick, i might be thinking of gta vice city but i think i remember getting a hooker in the car in part 3 and the car then bouncing up and down. it had to be one that had hydrolics though i think.

[TheWengler]

and yea nick, i might be thinking of gta vice city but i think i remember getting a hooker in the car in part 3 and the car then bouncing up and down. it had to be one that had hydrolics though i think.

You could do this in GTA3. You just need a regular street car (don't need the hydraulics) and some place romantic. Like an alley or the park.

[XaiLo]

once upon a time.

http://www.designsbyxailo.com/thepics/2008/04_apr/Cyrix.jpg

Let's just say Intel made a comeback. lol :D

It's 10:00 do you know what your children are playing:confused: parenting is something you can't leave up to the government or labels.

[01514]

Little Johnny can't play bad games at his own house because his parents won't buy them for him. Thus, he goes over to the dropout drug dealer house and plays it on their children's system because they are so stoned they don't care what their children play.

well if little Johnny is playing with drug dealers then what's wrong with his parents shouldn't they know where the kid hanging out :) I'm no parent but I thing that if I was my kid wouldn't be hanging around drug dealers or I would go GTA on his ass ;D lol

[Visual Reality]

My 2 cents on the GTA... its a piece of SH!T and is doing nothing for our kids.
My concern is more that children are exposed to killing and violence being portrayed as the solution to all problems. My stepson is 10 and I'd love to take him up to the shooting range and let him have a go at some targets with a bb gun and maybe a .22LR. The way he says people should be shot and killed makes me not want to do this and he gets all this rubbish from video games and TV. This is how those brats at Columbine started out although to be fair, my stepson is most definitely not an introvert.
You guys should meet Jack Thompson, you'd get along great :rolleyes:

Look. You didn't have to throw the Columbine reference in here - it has nothing to do with GTA or violent video games. It has everything to do with an individual's personality, morality, and how they were raised.

I hear time and time again some study was done that shows children who play violent video games are more likely to show aggressive behavior, cause trouble in school, etc etc. But what they don't realize is they have this completely backwards. It should read as follows:

Children that tend to show aggressive behavior, cause trouble in school, etc, are more likely to be attracted to violent video games. That is why they play them. They play them because they are an outlet - you can get away with a lot of things in the digital world that you just can't do in real life without serious consequences. I seriously do not believe that children, in a solid foundation of a home, will change from passive to aggressive in real life just because they started playing violent games. If a person goes into it with the knowledge that it is wrong, what they are seeing and doing is purely fictional and is just a game, and fully understands this, I don't see any problem at all. With that said, myself and many of my friends were mature enough to play GTA type games when we were 12 - everyone is going to be different. However no parent would have ever approved of that, because many parents simply don't understand since they didn't grow up around video games.

In fact, studies were done that showed agressive/violent video games actually calmed the majority of people who played them - again it is an outlet, a way to get away from the real world for a short time. The people who take these forms of media seriously and personally have mental/moral problems going into it.

And what about violent movies? Why is there never any uproar about them? Oh my god, there is sex in Grand Theft Auto? There was sex in movies over 50 years ago, and that was real. This is a polygonal depiction of a human act. It is purely art. Many parents will let a kid see a movie they probably shouldn't see - but will swear the video games that depict the exact same things are evil and should be banned? Talk about a double standard.

[JTL]

In some cultures, taking someone's picture is considered a violent act. I know! Let's adopt those ideas in this culture as well! :rolleyes:

This conversation proves JTL's first law: Put a lot of smart people in a room and you're bound to get some really dumb ideas!

Bottom line: Being human is the root cause of violence in humans. Time to move on now...

[XaiLo]

Granted there are different personality types along with a mixed bag of morality and logical thought processes. Ones enviornment whether real, imagined, or virtual will always have an impact on the individual to what degree and how is the question. Here's where a sense of fairness, morality and maturity play pivitol roles. Parental guidance, spirituality, social relationships, and community do more to shape a persons outlook on life than anything else. To blame a game, movie, or book for a single act or a pattern of behavior is escapeism. Can they polute or exasperate a struggling mind? of course they can so can stumping ones toe. It's easier to play the blame game rather than invest time in communities to ensure health and well being of the community.

[Rhys]

Granted there are different personality types along with a mixed bag of morality and logical thought processes. Ones enviornment whether real, imagined, or virtual will always have an impact on the individual to what degree and how is the question. Here's where a sense of fairness, morality and maturity play pivitol roles. Parental guidance, spirituality, social relationships, and community do more to shape a persons outlook on life than anything else. To blame a game, movie, or book for a single act or a pattern of behavior is escapeism. Can they polute or exasperate a struggling mind? of course they can so can stumping ones toe. It's easier to play the blame game rather than invest time in communities to ensure health and well being of the community.

That's pointing the finger vaguely in the right direction. While we play violent games we are no different from the Romans and their circus in which gladiators murdered each other in the name of entertainment.

The problem is that violence in media feeds violent behaviour and violent behaviour feeds violent media. It's a vicious circle. While none can be directly attributable to actual murders, it's a constant drip, drip drip that leads toward a general thought along the lines of violence being the solution.

As you've highlighted, the lack of social integration and cohesion is the majority of the problem. While people feel undervalued and hopeless they will sometimes resort to desperate measures to achieve parity or supremacy. Take the suicidal criminals that go on a rampage then commit suicide. They're striking out against whatever they perceive as wrong and then kill themselves because they know that's the only way to escape the wrath of society. Similarly the suicidal terrorists are from backgrounds that bear a grudge and having visited destruction, they prefer to die than to face up to what they did.

[Visual Reality]

If you speak of the bomb-vest wearing extremists who blow themselves up in the name of Islam, they aren't escaping anything. They are just going to heaven to claim the 72 virgins due to them for rightfully killing in the name of martyrdom and allah. Assuming that's what you mean my "suicidal terrorists"...could be wrong.

But that's a seperate discussion.

[Rhys]

If you speak of the bomb-vest wearing extremists who blow themselves up in the name of Islam, they aren't escaping anything. They are just going to heaven to claim the 72 virgins due to them for rightfully killing in the name of martyrdom and allah. Assuming that's what you mean my "suicidal terrorists"...could be wrong.

But that's a seperate discussion.

Those guys are just brainwashed.

[FlashX83]

That's pointing the finger vaguely in the right direction. While we play violent games we are no different from the Romans and their circus in which gladiators murdered each other in the name of entertainment.


No different only in the fact that we are products of our society and that cultural norms will affect our views on ethics. Personally, I'd like to think that moving from being entertained by real death to being entertained by virtual death is considered progress.




Video games don't turn normal kids into violent kids. And it might actually be a release for violent kids who can express their anger with virtual violence instead of physical violence. No doubt it can also have the opposite effect, but so can any number of other aggressive activities. Someone who is predisposed to aggressive behavior could get the same thing from watching a movie like Die Hard, or watching a WWE event, or hell, even playing tackle football or hockey.

But my opinion probably doesn't count. I was killing Nazis in Wolf3d when I was ~10 and was happily fragging people online in Quake and running over miscellaneous pedestrians in Carmageddon by 15 and despite all that have turned out relatively normal. I also let my nephews (10 & 12) play GTA IV, with the promise that they would play nice, try not to run over people and only shoot people who shot at them first. :D




Oh and GTA IV is an amazing game. The level of detail is outstanding. It was actually the first game I bought for my BluRay player aka PS3.

[Visual Reality]

Those guys are just brainwashed.
Agreed...straight from birth. They never knew anything else and for some reason I can't wrap my head around, lack the ability to stop and say "HEY - wait a minute! I don't have to do this!".

Lemmings, I call them.
Personally, I'd like to think that moving from being entertained by real death to being entertained by virtual death is considered progress.
That is a very good point. We used to be entertained by public stonings, beheadings and arena fights. Colosseum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colosseum) anyone?
I was killing Nazis in Wolf3d when I was ~10 and was happily fragging people online in Quake and running over miscellaneous pedestrians in Carmageddon by 15 and despite all that have turned out relatively normal.
Yeah I was playing Doom in 4th grade (around 10 years old). It scared the heck out of me sometimes but I loved it, that was the game that got me into 3D shooters...have been ever since. Have played pretty much every violent franchise ever made and I'd like to think I turned out ok. I'm a very passive person by nature, actually one of the least aggressive you will ever see. However, if provoked that can change quickly...passive doesn't necessarily mean harmless ;)
Oh and GTA IV is an amazing game. The level of detail is outstanding. It was actually the first game I bought for my BluRay player aka PS3.
Make sure you turn that blur effect off - I forget what the setting is called. It made Vice City look like crap too.

[Rhys]

Agreed...straight from birth. They never knew anything else and for some reason I can't wrap my head around, lack the ability to stop and say "HEY - wait a minute! I don't have to do this!".

Lemmings, I call them.

Oddly enough anybody can be turned into one of the mindless murderers - it just needs the right key to be found.

[Honest Gaza]

.....
But my opinion probably doesn't count. I was killing Nazis in Wolf3d when I was ~10 and was happily fragging people online in Quake and running over miscellaneous pedestrians in Carmageddon by 15 and despite all that have turned out relatively normal. I also let my nephews (10 & 12) play GTA IV, with the promise that they would play nice, try not to run over people and only shoot people who shot at them first. :D
....

I've got 3 kids and they all have liked to play video games over the years. No.2 Son is 15 and No.3 Son is 6. Unfortunately, No.2 Son has a passion for some of the more "violent/action" games and as a result, No.3 Son is exposed to it....and likes to have a play on occasions (eg Call of Duty 4).

I used to insist that No.3 Son didn't play Call of Duty and he would often play Motor Storm in it's place, or Skateboarding games.

But when you think about it, if No.3 Son plays a Car Game that allows him to roll over and smash it up against rocks and other cars, does this mean he is likely to go out on the road when he's 18 and do the same in the real world.....I don't think so.

When I was a kid and played cowboys and itchybums and pretended to shoot people, did that give me the passion to want and do the same in the real world.....No !

So for me, as a parent, I would prefer that No.3 Son didn't play the more violent games....but if he does, I'd like to think that as a parent, I teach him the difference between "play" and "reality".

Will I be successful ?

Only time will tell.

[Honest Gaza]

well GTA is not for kids it says on the box M for mature so if kids are playing it and getting stupid ideas then we should blame the parents for letting them play . trhats how I see it :)

The hard part is determining where they got the stupid ideas from. Don't assume that they got it from the game. Many kids get stupid ideas from your evening news as shown on the television at night.

[Visual Reality]

...and we all grew up on Loony Tunes, where its ok to smoke cigars, shoot rabbits, and beat the living crap out of each other.

[01514]

ya and we turned out somehow not that bad :D

[Rhys]

ya and we turned out somehow not that bad :D

What about Dennis Neilson, Ted Bundy, Harold Shipman, Marc Detroux, Toto Rino etc

[JTL]

What about Dennis Neilson, Ted Bundy, Harold Shipman, Marc Detroux, Toto Rino etcInsane m'f'er's would be insane whether they watched "Looney Tunes" or played GTA or not. You're really way off on this...

You don't want to play or watch or read certain things? Fine.

You don't want your kids to play or watch or read certain things? Fine.

Just, leave the rest of us who understand the difference between reality and fantasy and take responsibilty for OUR OWN ACTIONS the hell alone!

There's no finger to be pointed. None. Nada. Except maybe at unfit parents who refuse to take responsibilty for their kids. But, parents' inabilty to parent shouldn't mean a suggestion of a loss of civil rights for the rest of us!

[downtrodden]

'm glad this topic came up.. i LOVE CoD4... and i'm on prestige number 6... this is how i spend a majority of my free time nowadays! I love some of the visual effects, how the heat signature from the tank can be seen in the air.. or the heat signature from guns firing blurs your vision.. or how when you aim your rifle, everything gets blurry except what you're aiming at... great Depth of Field control in that game!

As for this debate about games I played Doom at a very young age and always understood the difference between reality and game. My parents worried that playing DOOm would turn me into a violent devil worshipper and so you know what they did? They acted like PARENTS and made sure I understood the difference between REALITY and Violent GAMES. I always played with toy guns from a very young age... played "war" in the woods with all the neighborhood kids and 'shooting' people didn't make me shoot anyone in real life... why? because my father also taught me at a young age about Firearm safety and life and death... besiacally what a parent SHOULD do, instead of doing nothing and then blaming games when kids don't know any better.

I was playing Risk at 7... never had a desire to invade a neighboring country...

Most kids who do this bad stuff are screwed up well BEFORE they start playing Violent Games... why? because momand/ or dad didn't RAISE them and just decided to let the game box be the baby sitter.

Oh no, better not let your kids play MARIO bros, or they may start eating SHROOMS!

Btw, if any of you peeps have Xbox live, PM me with your gamertag and we'll get some CoD 4 goin!!!!

[downtrodden]

PS. Nor am i trying to say every kid should be allowed to play violent games. Games are marked with a Maturity rating for a reason. So parents can do their jobs. It is ultimately, and should ALWAYS be up to the PARENTS to decide if their kid is mature enough to play a game and understand the concepts involved. It is also a parent's job to know who their kids are hanging out with and where. I know young adults in their mid 20's that I don't think are mature enough to play violent games. these are also guys i know didn't have any sort of parental figure growing up.. odd corrolation eh? I also know 6 year olds that I would feel comfortable letting play violent games, were they my children.

Parents, start being parents and the spread of a lot of societal problems would slow!

[XaiLo]

Here's the thing in the bible you can't get past the first few pages before Cain kills his brother, because Cain did not follow the rules while his brother did complete the task in the manner prescribed. It was easier for Cain to view his brother as the object of his embaressment than to take personal responsibility.

Throughout history there have been atrocious acts committed against humanity this is not new! Many historical figures that we learn about were some of the most vicious murderers in history only on a large scale we call it war. In the dark ages the Roman church annialated two civilizations. Their overall death toll has been estimated as high as 70 million people. In the middle east tribes have been fighting the same war for at least a couple of thousand years and they're related to one another.

As a veteran one of the first things the Army taught was how to put a bullet through a man's head. Here there are men and woman who took part in five conflicts. The vast majority of which have lead normal lives if anything they are more of a danger to themselves than anyone else.

In the end it comes down to a personal decision some people just don't think it's wrong to kill. They did not come by this by playing a game... this is a breakdown in fundamental morality. Murder is spiritually immoral and in most parts of the world illegal. These two concepts are not that far removed from society that they are not known and evident truths.

Most people given that there fundamental needs are met will remain moral and law abiding citizens. In America quite a few things fall under the freedom of speach act. This attack on video games is nothing new before this it was book burnings. There's nothing wrong with knowledge... issue is the wisdom to rightly divide that knowledge.

As with maturity there are varying levels of wisdom: guns, books, swords, bombs, don't kill people people kill people. And that's the bottom line. Give two people let's say a 5yr old and Davinci the same brushes, paints and canvas. When Davinci turns out a masterpiece and the child (well you can imagine) who in their right mind would blame the brushes, paints and canvas for the childs inability to compete.

[anco85]

Hmmm, speaking of which, I have just won a super rare, super limited GTA IV hamper which just so happens to be for sale :D

[01514]

Insane m'f'er's would be insane whether they watched "Looney Tunes" or played GTA or not. You're really way off on this...

You don't want to play or watch or read certain things? Fine.

You don't want your kids to play or watch or read certain things? Fine.

Just, leave the rest of us who understand the difference between reality and fantasy and take responsibilty for OUR OWN ACTIONS the hell alone!

There's no finger to be pointed. None. Nada. Except maybe at unfit parents who refuse to take responsibilty for their kids. But, parents' inabilty to parent shouldn't mean a suggestion of a loss of civil rights for the rest of us!

what he said :D

[adam75south]

this whole discussion just further solidifies my desire to stay kid-free....which leads me to our next topic of discussion....abortion!!! haha jk jk.

[Rhys]

this whole discussion just further solidifies my desire to stay kid-free....which leads me to our next topic of discussion....abortion!!! haha jk jk.

Simple and cheap - use a pair of garden shears to do the job :p

[JTL]

Simple and cheap - use a pair of garden shears to do the job :pUsing a pair of garden shears on kids? Don't you think that's going a little too far? :eek::D:D:p:D:D:eek:

Adam...that one's for you, dude! ;):cool:

[Visual Reality]

Why do they always ask for boiling water at the birth of a child in a western?

...in case the baby doesn't make it, they can make soup.

Sorry, had that joke in my head and you guys started talking about abortion.

[01514]

Why do they always ask for boiling water at the birth of a child in a western?

...in case the baby doesn't make it, they can make soup.
.

lol

abortion should b legal .... just my 2 cents

[Jeff Keller]

This one's started to go off the deep end, so I'm closing the thread.