Nikon SLR choice for daughter

[pnarends]

My youngest daughter owns the D50 with Sigma or Tamron lens, not sure which one. I own a D80 with the awesome DX 18-200. My other daughter has finally decided (after many point and shoots of various quailites) to step into the SLR world. She is always envious of our pictures from our Nikon SLRs but has not been willing to invest until now. We are struggling at what level she should enter. She is tired of buying new cameras she is not happy with and wants something she can use for years. She will use it on her 3 children, ages 1 to 10, on vacation, at baton competitions and who knows what else as they children grow. I think once she has an SLR she will learn about the features and eventually take advantage of them. Her biggest priority is quality pictures. As I said she always likes the one her sister and I take. I have been reading and am confused what to recommend to her. She could do the D40X for less money and get a better lens. Or should she spend the extra money on the D80 and a more basic lens. I don't want her to purchase more than she needs, but don't want her to wish someday she had gotten more. Of course both systems she can always add to with lens and external flash. Accesories also make great Christmas gifts. Nikon lovers, give me some input!

[Visual Reality]

Does she have a budget?

[Rooz]

keep her current lens'. buy a d80 and a 50mm f1.8. the d80 is going for a song at the moment so she can pick up a very advanced amateur camera with plenty of room for her to grow into it. the 50mm is awesome for kids shots.

[XaiLo]

Rooz, she has no lenses... that would be the other daughter. :p

pnarends, has she ever used either her sisters D50 or your D80? The D40/D40x as well as the D80 are currently all good buys. What exactly is it that she is disatisfied about in her P&S. As stated budget would also be a good thing to know. She would be able to use any of the aforementioned bodies for a considerable time period. the unknown quantity here is how she will use the camera... you know your daughter and in terms of a better lens that a little subjective without knowing a budget. From what you have stated about your daughter I'd say go with the D80 most people seem to have no problem getting the glass they want if they catch the bug for more veratility I'd say couple it with the Nikon 55-200mm VR. I have no problem recommending the D40x either. there are some very capable Nikon consumer lenses available, so once again depending on the budget, there may not be a compromise.

Edit: What P&S is she currently using.

[cvicisso]

I also vote for the D80. If she has questions - she already has a person she knows/trusts that she can ask (you). Let her borrow yours for a week (or so) and see how she takes to it. After she uses it for a while, if the D80 doesn't work out - the D40 is a tremendous bargain, and you can't hardly go wrong there if you stick with AF-S (or equivalent) lenses.

[Rooz]

Rooz, she has no lenses... that would be the other daughter. :p.

woops, sorry. lol

this really then depends on the budget and potentially the size of the camera. if she can stretch the dollars a d80 w/kit lens plus the 50mm f1.8, (you can all use that anyway), and i'd also suggest a flash.

make sure she is comfortable in using a cam the size of a d80 cos its alot heavier and bigger than a d40.

[mugsisme]

I think that the two most important things for her to look at are budget and fit. By that, I mean, how does it fit into her hand? I was talking to another woman, and she said she got the D80 because she has big hands and it fit into her hands the best. I got the D40 because I have small hands, and that one fit into my hands the best. Take your DD to a camera store, and let her hold them in her hands. They get heavier with the flash and lenses (something I didn't realize before I bought, but makes me even gladder I got a smaller camera than a bigger one). Lending her yours is an awesome idea. I "sold" two D40s just by letting some of my friends play with mine for a few minutes!

[pnarends]

The D80 would be affordable for her with a basic lens, but she isn't sure she wants to spend that much at this time. I am sure the D40X is much closer to what she WANTS to pay, but we worry she will wish she had spend the extra, down the road. So what is her budget? That is hard to answer exactly.

[jcon]

I personally would suggest a D200. I know its a tad higher than other suggestions, but its a better cam, so that comes with a price. You will be able to find a good deal now that new models are being released.

Also, this will keep her happy for years to come, since you say she likes to upgrade alot with more needs and wants. The D200 will allow her to grow and learn beyond her wildest dreams.

I am not sure on what type of shooting range she will have or want but a basic suggestion would be the Sigma 18-50mm F2.8(the newer one). Not a bad combo if you ask me.

[tim11]

She isn't sure about D80... or whether she will be happy with D40x.... and you aren't sure about the budget...
You will have to answer those questions yourself before we have something to begin a debate. At least you should decide on a body to begin with. There is a new D60 with some extra feature over D40x but there are many Nikon owners here who think it's over priced.

[XaiLo]

I know 5 or 6 hundred dollars is nothing to sneeze at for a camera, but it's not terribly expensive either. If she decides she wants more 3 to 4 years down the road. She would probably be able to get that much more camera for the same price.


Edit:
It's not as though the D40x will be a great dissapointment. Don't think there is me we can help here with. I understand your realization and concern of her future photographical needs. But if she's not sharing that realization what can you do.

[cvicisso]

The D80 would be affordable for her with a basic lens, but she isn't sure she wants to spend that much at this time. I am sure the D40X is much closer to what she WANTS to pay, but we worry she will wish she had spend the extra, down the road. So what is her budget? That is hard to answer exactly.So then give her your D80 and treat yourself to a D300. :D C'mon... you know you want to...

[dxrocnxj]

tell to not be so cheap and get a d3 :p

[aparmley]

pnarends - I don't know where you ended up on this. . . . so I'll chime in just for shits and giggles.


but we worry she will wish she had spend the extra, down the road.

Thats exactly what I would be concerned with, combined with her growing anger at constantly replacing her cameras - this would easily push me into recommending the D80. The biggest reason - AF motor. The D(6)40/X all can not use non AF-S lenses. That was enough for me and it should be plenty to prevent a body upgrade within a year or two.

Heres the deal. Lenses are more important to the photograph than the camera body. This is true 90% of the time. However, as I stated above, she will limit the number of lenses she can use with her camera if she chooses the D40X. She will be using her money to purchase (along with the D40X) a guarantee that she will have to upgrade her body before she probably would have otherwise. For some people that doesn't bother them - tight budgets, no concern about using a lot of Nikon primes, etc etc. Its something to consider, heavily, I might add.

Best of luck!

[cvicisso]

The biggest reason - AF motor. The D(6)40/X all can not use non AF-S lenses...<snip>...she will limit the number of lenses she can use with her camera if she chooses the D40X.Ok guys, how come whenever I say something like this, I get flamed?! :p

X - helloooooo? ;)

[erichlund]

Because nobody likes you??? ;)

Well, really, I think it depends on the context and how active the D40 defenders are that day.

Of course, the statement is actually inaccurate. The D40 can use these lenses, but you are restricted to manual focus. You can also use AI and AI-S lenses, so long as you are willing to manually meter and focus, because the camera meter won't work, and the lenses won't autofocus on ANY camera. But, apparently that's become tantamount to completely useless.

[XaiLo]

Ok guys, how come whenever I say something like this, I get flamed?! :p

X - helloooooo? ;)

Well, in keeping with the OP's original assessment of his daughter... In my initial post I recommended the D80, so the D40 is a mute point in my view. Apmarley's post was in keeping with the same point so why would I argue my own position. On top of that Apmarley presented both sides of the situation.

I'll get em next time cvicisso ;)

[cvicisso]

Because nobody likes you??? ;)Nice. :p I totally set myself up for that. Well played!


I'll get em next time cvicisso :)Fair enough, XaiLo - just trying to keep you guys honest! :D

[aparmley]

erichlund - You have a point that you can still use non AF-S lenses in manual focus mode. I usually just say that you can't use them because manual focus through a small viewfinder is impossible for me, YMMV. And I should really add that prime lenses are the biggest reason that this lack of an AF-motor may effect peoples decision (most primes that is). I like primes and until they are all AF-S this is an issue. But, for kit lenses and all the high end glass, no issues.

cvicisso. . . Say what you want, don't worry about getting flamed for it - most everything is subjective = no one is right. I just wanted to bring up this point of view and I don't see why anyone would get all bent out of shape over it either, its a fact.

[tizeye]

Obviously, budget and useage are things you will have to determine with her. Absolutely let her borrow your D80 and since you don't have a D40/60 camera, let her play with them in Best Buy just to get the feel - and even crosscompare with the D80 at Best Buy. That is ultimately how I decided on the D40 vs the D70 and D50 which were on closeout at the time. Weight, feel, and my intended primary use as a Realtor. I just didn't need all the advanced features (but know how to override). While the D40 is 'easy' I had decades of 35mm SLR experience, all the way back to matchneedle metering.

Got a Canon P&S for wife for Christmas to replace her Sony P&S that died. During the interum she used my D40 and made me take the Canon back. Now she thinks of the D40 as "hers" and graces me with the opportunity to use it! Also, her brother used it when visiting and is going to buy himself one. (Guess I will have to go out and get the D200 that I really wanted.)

The biggest hurdle right now for you is to determine which one your daughter 'falls in love with' because that is the one she will use.

[XaiLo]

cvicisso, my base contention has been that for the market segment that the D40 is geared towards, it has an ample and satisfactory selection of glass for it's users. And that the lack of a focus motor was really a non-issue. And from the sales of the D40 it would be hard to argue that point. Also this has not been a hinderence to those who want to use primes. many D40 users still purchased the 50mm and are happy to use it manually.

Addtionally more times than not misinformation and bias were also being disseminated along with criticism. Now add to that the fact that actual D40 owners were more than happy with the camera. The negativity was being exposed mostly by individuals who would 1) never buy the camera 2) not the intended market segment 3) beyond the capabilities of the camera 4) it did not meet their needs. But none of that makes it unfit for use, just makes it incompatible for some.

I just happen to disagree with the philosophy that because it will not AF non AF-S primes, it is not worthy of consideration. We're no longer in the era of SLR film cameras and darkrooms. Like it or not photography is threading on new ground. Right now physical and technical limitations that did not exist a decade ago are now in play. Ergo, there are new types of users evolving because of those limitaions. Also I can add there's a big difference between wanting nice clear images and being proficient at the art of photography, with many levels of users in between.

[cvicisso]

cvicisso. . . Say what you want, don't worry about getting flamed for it - most everything is subjective = no one is right. I just wanted to bring up this point of view and I don't see why anyone would get all bent out of shape over it either, its a fact.True, true... you and I are on the same page with regards to non-AF-S lenses being used on dslr bodies with no focus motors and dim viewfinders. I was just making the tongue-in-cheek [and probably paranoid] observation (mostly to the D40 crew) that I have brought this point up before on this forum and got zinged for it, yet your post (which was actually a bit more - eh - to the point -than mine) miraculously survived unscathed for some reason. Like I said, probably paranoia. :rolleyes:

And speaking of which, case in point...


cvicisso, my base contention has been...

XaiLo - Did you mean to address that last post to me? Kind of a long-winded reply to a non-serious one-liner isn't it (like I have any room to talk about being long-winded!)? ;) It seems to be more in response to aparmley...

Besides, as you know (because I have to caveat every other post with this message), I'm a fan and proponent of the D40. I even recommended it as a potential choice in this thread. I agree with you that it's targeted at a certain market (what isn't?). I just think it's stupid not to consider how very poorly non-AF-S lenses 'work' on it if those [bizillions of] non-AF-S lenses are even a remote consideration. Please don't take that personally (not that you have, of course). There are just too many other cameras out there to intentionally hamstring yourself right from the get-go - again - IF you are considering non-AF-S lenses in the future. If the game plan stipulates that all future lens purchases will have focus motors built-in, then game on. D40 rocks.

BTW - this is going deeper 'off-topic' but something many folks don't consider when they dismiss non-AF-S lenses as 'too slow' is the difference in camera body motors. I know that I never considered it until I bought the F100+grip. It focuses WICKED fast! Much faster than my D70. Just something else to think about.

Peace out. :D