FZ series sensor size

[RayGun]

Hello, everyone!

I'm a newbie in the world of (digital) photography, considering a stabilized superzoom.

Actually, I hesitate which one to get - FZ3 or Canon S1 IS.
I'm leaning towards FZ3, however there's a thing that bothers me -
namely it's relatively small, 1/3.2 sensor matrix (compare this to S1's 1/2.7)

Not that I have some sort of prejudice towards small sensors, but I got used to the thought that small matrix inevitably leads to noise and chromatic aberrations.

One more thing is that Canon S1 IS has manual focus. But then again, my current camera, HP R707 also has this feature and I can say that I almost never use it...

Could someone with experience help me decide?

[Rangerhgm]

I went through this same delema before I decided to go with the FZ3. You might want to look at these links (from www.dpreview.com) and the results in the paragraph after the test shots. The FZ3 and S1 IS are compared.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz3/page6.asp

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz3/page7.asp

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz3/page8.asp

good luck on your decision :)

[RayGun]

Hmm.. Interesting images indeed.. FZ-3 really manifests more noise at ISO 400, however, Canon S1's pic is a bit blurry at that ISO speed. Also, I've been able to eliminate almost all FZ-3 noise with PaintShop Pro 9.. (a little harder with S1).

But overall, from your personal experience, comparing to other cameras in real-life shooting, are there any problems caused by the small sensor? Do you even notice it's small? :)

[Rangerhgm]

raygun.....Sorry I can't be of much help. I can't answer your question regarding my personal experience because I haven't gotten my FZ3 yet and in fact I don't a lot of digital experirnce overall. I just ordered my FZ3 this week from www.vanns.com ($329.00) and it's scheduled to be delivered by UPS on Jan 12. I've done a ton of research and reviewed all of the info I could find on this forum befor I made up my mind.

[John_Reed]

Hmm.. Interesting images indeed.. FZ-3 really manifests more noise at ISO 400, however, Canon S1's pic is a bit blurry at that ISO speed. Also, I've been able to eliminate almost all FZ-3 noise with PaintShop Pro 9.. (a little harder with S1).

But overall, from your personal experience, comparing to other cameras in real-life shooting, are there any problems caused by the small sensor? Do you even notice it's small? :)Raygun, you can't make a blanket indictment of cameras, and declare that smaller sensor size is worse or better than larger sensor size. Different makers use different technologies to make better or worse use of the light that's captured at individual sensor sites. In Panasonic's case, they use, for example, a double micro-lens (two layers) over the CCD chip's surface to better focus the incoming light on the available sensor surface, not to mention a patented sensor layout that optimizes collection efficiency. Others have their own tricks, maybe better, maybe not. It's also true that the very size of the Leica lens mated to the CCD, that is, the fact that it's so compact, yet capable of 12X zoom at f2.8 aperture, is enabled by the small sensor size; the lens and CCD are engineered together, as a package.

But if you look at photo results, resolution comparisons (like at dpreview), and high-ISO performance, I don't think you can honestly conclude that any of the Panasonic zoom cameras are "hampered" by their "small sensor size," unless you're comparing to dSLRs.

[RayGun]

John, I sincerely welcome your input on Panasonic sensor technology. Believe me, it is appreciated. What is not appreciated, however is the attempt to say that I'm jumping to conclusions or "make a blanket indictment of cameras". If you read my first post you'd note me saying that

Not that I have some sort of prejudice towards small sensors, but I got used to the thought that small matrix inevitably leads to noise and chromatic aberrations.

Please note the words "got used to the thought..". This is just my opinion based on some articles I read. Actually, I have already mentioned that I'm no guru and don't pretend to be one.

Not to mention that whatever technology you use, there are limitations imposed by the laws of physics (i.e. wavelength vs. photosite size)

Once again, I was asking about real-life shooting experience from someone who already purchased the camera, having preferred it to competitors for some reason, not some lab test (which I could check out myself, and I so did)

The reason for this scrutiny of mine is probably that where I live FZ3, for instance costs ~ $510, just as Canon S1 IS, FZ20 ~ $710, and average salary is $100 monthly.
Not to mention the fact that if I do buy one of these cameras, I'm 150% sure I wouldn't be able to return it to the store "just because I don't like picture quality"

[arghman]

raygun, have you checked if amazon.com and/or B&H Photo (http://www.bhphotovideo.com) ships overseas? I got my FZ20 from B&H, it was US$499 (they show the FZ3 as US$339.95). I would think you could get a better deal from a reputable online retailer than a local store (unless there are import tariffs in your country).

[John_Reed]

John, I sincerely welcome your input on Panasonic sensor technology. Believe me, it is appreciated. What is not appreciated, however is the attempt to say that I'm jumping to conclusions or "make a blanket indictment of cameras"... Not to mention that whatever technology you use, there are limitations imposed by the laws of physics (i.e. wavelength vs. photosite size)
The reason for this scrutiny of mine is probably that where I live FZ3, for instance costs ~ $510, just as Canon S1 IS, FZ20 ~ $710, and average salary is $100 monthly.
Not to mention the fact that if I do buy one of these cameras, I'm 150% sure I wouldn't be able to return it to the store "just because I don't like picture quality"I didn't mean to seem to be putting you down. But there seems to be a widespread notion that noise is influenced only by sensor size, and if that's true, how come the Panasonic FZ20 seems to out-perform 8 MP cameras, noise-wise, that have larger sensor sites? As I already said, there are other mitigating factors involved.

Wow! I'm not sure any camera is worth 5.1 months of salary! I do hope you've managed to beat the average there somehow?

[RayGun]

Wow! I'm not sure any camera is worth 5.1 months of salary! I do hope you've managed to beat the average there somehow?

Sure, why else would I want look for another digital camera... The problem is however, that they only bring cheapest goods here (cameras, cell phones, whatever) - buying power of the population is low. If you want something more then basics, it can turn into a problem. For inctance, I've been unable to find FZ15 here. But enough ranting.

I've read somewhere that FZ20's stabilizer isn't so good as FZ3's. If that is true (is it?), is it simply because of higher resolution (i.e. effects of shaking are more visible), or is there something else? What about FZ15?

have you checked if amazon.com and/or B&H Photo...


Thank you for your help, arghman. Although my country indeed chrges 20% on parcels priced above $200 and S&H is about $50, it turns out that buying from B&H would save me about $50.. :))

Is B&H considered to be a reputable online store? And what about US Postal Service, do you think it's wise to trust them with something as expensive as this? (Have you heard of any cases of lost/damaged items?)


Thank you guys for your support and information!

[John_Reed]

I've read somewhere that FZ20's stabilizer isn't so good as FZ3's. If that is true (is it?), is it simply because of higher resolution (i.e. effects of shaking are more visible), or is there something else? What about FZ15?That's news to me. I've heard owners of all three cameras raving about how well the OIS works. Where did you read that? I will say that for me, the larger size of the FZ10 (same size as FZ15/20) gives a benefit, just from the standpoint of having a larger, slightly heavier body, I think it tends to help stabilize the camera a bit more. I was formerly using a smaller FZ1 (slightly larger than the FZ3), and I notice that my "hit rate" on low shutter speed shots (1/25 to 1/4 second) seems to be better using the bigger camera. Your mileage may vary! :o

[RayGun]

That's news to me. I've heard owners of all three cameras raving about how well the OIS works. Where did you read that?

Here: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz20/page5.asp

Go to "Image Stabilization" section

- If anything the effectiveness is slightly less than the FZ3, though this is undoubtedly due to the higher pixel count, which means any blur in the scene is more visible when viewed on-screen at 100%.

[John_Reed]

Here: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz20/page5.asp

Go to "Image Stabilization" section

- If anything the effectiveness is slightly less than the FZ3, though this is undoubtedly due to the higher pixel count, which means any blur in the scene is more visible when viewed on-screen at 100%.And here we're comparing a couple of cameras which have image stabilization, and saying that one is just slightly better than the other, when in fact both are pretty impressive taken in their own right! So I wouldn't let that single factor decide for me, say, between the FZ3 and FZ20.

[RayGun]

And here we're comparing a couple of cameras which have image stabilization, and saying that one is just slightly better than the other, when in fact both are pretty impressive taken in their own right! So I wouldn't let that single factor decide for me, say, between the FZ3 and FZ20.

I agree here. It's obvious that "slightly better" is hardly a quantitative characteristic. To be sure, one has to perform scientific tests, that AFAIK don't exist for anti-shake mechanisms on consumer cameras.

[pixelator]

I am spanish (from Spain :)) , and I have purchased a Fz15 to B&H. I have received it in about 8 days , by USPS without to pay any taxes .Sometimes they charge taxes (about 20%), mainly if you order is sent by UPS.