Canon XTi White Balance is YELLOW!

[techiedude21]

Hello all,

I come here frustrated, so please bear with me as I spill my guts...

Recently I made a move to sell off my P&S Kodak cams and get a pro DSLR. I ended up with a Canon Rebel XT and then added 2 lenses. 28-135 IS and 70-300 IS USM. Started taking photos and everything was well.

Then recently my gf picked up a Canon SX100 for me to take on a trip to Vegas (the XT was just to bulky for all day travel). I liked it because it has 10x optical and is pocketable. So I went with it.

Before I left I saw a deal on an XTi and purchased it. Then put my XT on ebay.

Got back from the trip with some amazing photos from the SX100. Then shipped out a now sold XT and starting using the XTi thinking all would be fine and dandy...

Then the nightmare began...

I have taken many many indoor shots with the XTi only to find a strong yellow tint to all the photos. Yes I have a halogen light in the room (not flourescent) and there is mild yellow light. I do anticipate some tinting comparable to the room lighting.

So to take it further....tonight I took out the SX100 and snapped a shot on program mode, ISO 800, shutter speed 1/20, f 3.5, no flash. Turned out beautiful!

I did the exact same settings on the XTi and well...crap! A dingy yellow photo that didnt even compare in quality to the sx100 shot. I then tried flourescent mode. Same deal. I have also tried the "custom white balance" on the XTi without any luck. Maybe I am doing something wrong?

Well in conclusion (and thanks for staying with me here) I have never, ever had a camera with this type of problem. Some complain of high noise, others soft focus, low saturation, whatever... but its pretty difficult to comprehend how a new Canon XTi can fail dramatically in this area.

Right now I am looking for ideas or solutions. Could there be something wrong with it? Should I go back to an XT? Should I move over to Nikon? What gives?

Tips from any experienced photographers much appreciated.

[techiedude21]

here are some samples. BOTH photos taken with following settings:

Program mode, shutter 1/13, fstop 6.3, ISO 800, No flash

Lighting is track lighting from above, shooting down to subject, incadescent 40watt.

First photo with SX100
Second photo with Canon Digital Rebel XTi, w/ Canon 17-55 stock Lens

which shot would you rather have?

-the King lives on :-)

[sun5150]

What is the white balance set to???

[techiedude21]

What is the white balance set to???

AUTO White Balance on both cameras.

[techiedude21]

here is something interesting.

I loaded the "yellowish" image in ACDSee editor and went to Auto Exposure, which adjusted it. Its not the same as modifying a raw image, but it seemed to correct the color.

I am posting the PP effect result here:

This is the Canon XTi shot, edited w/ ACDSee.

[Rooz]

iso 800 can corrupt your colour reproduction first of all. you also havent posted other samples to see if this is a common characterestic of your camera or if its just the particular scene you are shooting. AWB doesn't work flawlessly for EVERY scene you shoot. sometimes it needs to be tweaked a little.

oh and btw, to answer your question, i'd rather have the second shot.

[zmikers]

oh and btw, to answer your question, i'd rather have the second shot.

I was going to say the same thing. 2nd shot looks much nicer to me too.

[techiedude21]

iso 800 can corrupt your colour reproduction first of all. you also havent posted other samples to see if this is a common characterestic of your camera or if its just the particular scene you are shooting. AWB doesn't work flawlessly for EVERY scene you shoot. sometimes it needs to be tweaked a little.

oh and btw, to answer your question, i'd rather have the second shot.

i took several shots around the house (havent posted them) and they all have the "yellowish" tint that is noticeable in the 2nd shot. I can see about adding more samples later.

Why do you favor the 2nd shot? is it because it is more clear?
Do you see the color balance as out of wack?

[Rooz]

well, the first shot just looks horrible in all honesty lol the second is much cleaner. i agree it looks yellowy, but like i said, AWB is not always perfect. especially with dim indoor lighting that is uneven. i think from memory the xti had a weakness with AWB performance in indoor lighting aswell ? cant remember now.

the corrected version looks good.

[ejhart]

First off let me say that I also agree with the consensus that the second picture is MUCH better than the first. Please don't be discouraged by a simple AWB problem in the camera. The XTI is a great little camera and should serve you well in getting the shots you want. I hope you don't mind (and if you do please say so and I will remove the picture immediately) but I went ahead and opened up your picture in Adobe Lightroom and just set the white balance on Auto (took all of 30 seconds). Here is the result.

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/566/img4710800ke4.jpg

Auto white balance is one of the easiest things to fix in post processing. With that said if you want to get the white balance right out of camera there is a way to do it. I own a 40D (which I think has the same sensor as the XTI) that has the same problem with indoor lighting. Whenever I shoot in my living room (which has incandescent and halogen lights) I get pictures with that dreaded yellow tinge when the camera is set to AWB. The way I solved this was to shoot a few pictures as RAW files and open them up in the supplied Canon Digital Photo Professional. I then played with the white balance setting until I achieved the correct white balance for the room/shot. Then just set that in camera when shooting in that room. Believe it or not the Daylight setting looks spot on in terms of white balance whenever I shoot in my living room with the incandescent and halogen lights. If this fails your next best bet is to get/purchase the 18% gray card and setup the custom white balance. Hopefully this helps some or maybe even gives you some ideas on how to tackle the problem. Let me know if there is anything I can clarify for you, and have a great time capturing memories with your new XTI. :)

[techiedude21]

Whenever I shoot in my living room (which has incandescent and halogen lights) I get pictures with that dreaded yellow tinge when the camera is set to AWB. The way I solved this was to shoot a few pictures as RAW files and open them up in the supplied Canon Digital Photo Professional. I then played with the white balance setting until I achieved the correct white balance for the room/shot. Then just set that in camera when shooting in that room.

Hi, no problem with the posting, thanks for your contribution to my "charity". :-)

The one part is a tad confusing, you said "then you set that in camera when shooting the room"? does that mean you are able to select a white balance within SOFTWARE and actually save those settings in CAMERA? Can you explain how that is done? I have never shot raw or used the software before, so I might just eb overlooking its capabilities, thanks.

[ejhart]

Sorry I wasn't very clear in my post. I just meant once I find which WB setting looks good in Digital Photo Professional, daylight, shade, cloudy, etc. I then set my camera to shoot with that WB setting. For example I said that in my living room with the lights I use for some reason the Daylight setting in Digital Photo Professional gives me the correct white balance (atleast to my eyes). So whenever I shoot in my living room I set the WB setting to daylight in the camera so the pictures out of camera have the correct white balance without having to post process at all. I hope this clarifies things for you. If not let me know and I'll try to explain it better.

[Mark_48]

Does your xti have a menu function called "WB SHIFT/BKT" (basing this on my 20D)? If it does it should have all 0's (zeros) next to it. If it has anything else besides zeros any WB including AWB may have a tint shift applied to it which simulates using CC filters. This can be cleared with the menu function "Clear Settings" to put everything back to default, which probably wouldn't hurt to try anyways.
If you don't have the function above try pulling both batteries (main and coin cell) from the camera to see if that may reset the system.

Mark..........

[Gintaras]

i would say i have not seen a single DSLR that could reproduce WB 100% right, it is always yellowish or orange. you can tweak white balance manually but this is tricky. i also use to correct WB in dim light with PP. i see no problem with yellowish WB as long as you can change it after downloading to PC.

[droopy1592]

My Xti is always orange-ish in my house. After I got an expodisc it's 1000000% better

[Mark_48]

FWIW I did a quick shot with a single 100W tungsten incandescent bulb for a comparison to the shot you posted. Handheld, so bit of blur. Walls are a pearlescent white. 20D was reset to default settings, ISO reset and exposure setting. AWB was used. No post processing on the image.

I have had images with a colorcast like yours if I've shot in a room that had compact flourescents lamps. I wouldn't think halogen bulbs would be too different from a normal tungsten.

ISO 1600 f/5.6@1/60.

[michaelb]

My Xti is always orange-ish in my house. ....

Ditto. If I shoot in my house in the evening without a flash then I have to use Tungsten WB. However, I usually just shoot in RAW and correct WB in DPP.

I've yet to see a dSLR that gives accurate AWB indoors, especially with incandescent lighting. Its no reason to not like a dSLR, IMO.

[techiedude21]

My Xti is always orange-ish in my house. After I got an expodisc it's 1000000% better

whats an expodisc?

magic cure all?

[Mark_48]

This is the Ken Rockwell explanation of the Expodisc. It's used for setting white balance manually.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/expodisc.htm

You had stated earlier that you attempted a manual WB. How did you do it and did you still have the same yellow look to the image?

[techiedude21]

This is the Ken Rockwell explanation of the Expodisc. It's used for setting white balance manually.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/expodisc.htm

You had stated earlier that you attempted a manual WB. How did you do it and did you still have the same yellow look to the image?

yes I "attempted" a manual setting. It was done by first taking a photo of a white poster board (taken with flash on), then going to the menu, custom WB, and selecting that image. Then changing the WB on cam from AWB to "custom".

The effect did not seem to make much difference unfortunately. Not sure if I did it wrong.

[Mark_48]

When setting manual white balance use the lighting source that you want to balance for. Illuminate the white poster board with your tungsten lamp and then set the WB manually from that image.

Had you tried the tungsten WB setting on the camera? That should have been pretty close.

[techiedude21]

When setting manual white balance use the lighting source that you want to balance for. Illuminate the white poster board with your tungsten lamp and then set the WB manually from that image.

Had you tried the tungsten WB setting on the camera? That should have been pretty close.

ok, so take a photo with the poster board lit with tungsten? got it!

but the 2nd part, "set the WB manually from that image"? how is that done?

[Mark_48]

"yes I "attempted" a manual setting. It was done by first taking a photo of a white poster board (taken with flash on), then going to the menu, custom WB, and selecting that image. Then changing the WB on cam from AWB to "custom"."

Same as you did before except this time using the tungsten light.

[droopy1592]

Here are my before (AWB) and and after (Custom WB) shots with the expodisc and CFL lighting. Big time dingy/yellow/orange look with the AWB. Some say it's best to adjust it themselves but I love my expodisc. Everything [usually] comes out looking right. These are two different shots, as you can tell by teh position of the dogs.

[cdifoto]

Canon AWB under Tungsten lighting has never been impressive.

[droopy1592]

Canon AWB under Tungsten lighting has never been impressive.


That seems to be it's major weakness... sunny, cloudy, or blue-ish light, it doesn't seem to have a problem. Tungsten sucks.

[techiedude21]

i would say i have not seen a single DSLR that could reproduce WB 100% right, it is always yellowish or orange. you can tweak white balance manually but this is tricky. i also use to correct WB in dim light with PP. i see no problem with yellowish WB as long as you can change it after downloading to PC.

Actually I do see a problem with having to manually adjust every shot. If you have a decent camera why should that be necessary?

I've yet to see a dSLR that gives accurate AWB indoors, especially with incandescent lighting. Its no reason to not like a dSLR, IMO.

What do you mean that's no reason to dislike a dSLR?? I suppose it depends on what you want to achieve. I want my photos to turn out well without PP. Thats one reason not to like a dSLR. :D

overall, it makes no logical sense why a decent entry-level "professional" digital camera is not able to provide accurate White Balance. I spent near $2,000 on a my XTi cam and lenses and now I hear that every shot will have inaccurate WB, and that is just typical for a DSLR? :eek:

How did my tiny P&S Canon cam get to be so much better at WB? :confused:

Also, may I add that $120 for a white cap seems alittle steep. :rolleyes:

[cdifoto]

Hate to be the one to tell you this OP but dSLRs aren't meant to allow you to be lazy and the XTi is NOT an entry level "professional" digital camera. It's an entry level dSLR but it's nowhere near "professional". Yes, it would be great if Canon would get its AWB to be accurate under tungsten lighting but they haven't. We don't lash out, we cope. Every image you take doesn't have to have inaccurate white balance.

Pretty soon you'll either give up or shoot RAW anyway where white balance can be adjusted after-the-fact.

Automation never has been, nor ever will be, absolutely perfect.

Your next step will be to flame me, but that's ok. I've seen it before, and I'll see it again.

[Mark_48]

You may also find that your DSLR doesn't have as much vibrance or apparent sharpness as your SX100 seems to have. The P&S cameras tend to do alot of processing in the camera so it looks good right out of the box and this likely includes AWB. With the DSLR there is some expectation that you will do some post processing such as sharpening and to some degree white balancing. Tungsten lighting doesn't have the full color spectrum as sunlight, it tends to be warmer which imparts the yellower hue to it. Although the camera gives an image that has a warmer tone to it, it might be what you actually want in the image to give a sense of warmth that tungsten lighting can do. Best to shoot RAW and then tweak it however you want the final results to be.

[Nickcanada]

Actually I do see a problem with having to manually adjust every shot. If you have a decent camera why should that be necessary?



What do you mean that's no reason to dislike a dSLR?? I suppose it depends on what you want to achieve. I want my photos to turn out well without PP. Thats one reason not to like a dSLR. :D

overall, it makes no logical sense why a decent entry-level "professional" digital camera is not able to provide accurate White Balance. I spent near $2,000 on a my XTi cam and lenses and now I hear that every shot will have inaccurate WB, and that is just typical for a DSLR? :eek:

How did my tiny P&S Canon cam get to be so much better at WB? :confused:

Also, may I add that $120 for a white cap seems alittle steep. :rolleyes:

Like everything in life you get what you put in. If you don't want to take the extra steps to make your images better then suffer poor image quality. I don't think you will find much sympathy from this crowd.

[RhesEbag]

I agree with EJ. I custom WB before every shoot. Once you learn how, it takes 2 seconds and makes everything look great (or at least balanced).

[talkingdog]

Actually I do see a problem with having to manually adjust every shot. If you have a decent camera why should that be necessary?

No you don't have to do it for every shot. Once you set it at the beginning of the shoot you don't have to change it until you change the light source. You can store the custom white balance and refer to it next time you shoot in that room. You may want to refer to your manual, this will help with your confusion
No worries

[techiedude21]

hey i think I've got it!!

talking dog - thanks for your enouraging comments. You helped me to keep the faith.

here is the story..
The first shot is the poster board (pretty exciting eh?)
It was shot at ISO 400 without flash, in my current room.

Then I applied that that shot in custom white balance, then changed to custom white balance, AND took the 2nd shot.

WHOOLA!! here it is, straight from the cam!

*** My only question is can I save more than one of these? from the way it sounded it was like I could have one for every room? ***

-- wow I feel so much better after figuring this out finally! :cool:

[techiedude21]

by the way, in regards to some previous comments, I appreciate all the great help from people here..I'm impressed how people in forum are quick to help each other, and how kind they are about doing so... its not something I find in other forums....

also i realize no cam is perfect, and I will have to do some PP, part of what photography and the art of it is all about... so its all good. The WB thing was just buggin me.

lastly, I wouldnt flame you mr. cdifoto - with over 5k in posts you have a right to say whatever you want... :D im a just a newbie looking for some tips and feedback.

[cdifoto]

My high post count doesn't mean I know a lot, it just means I talk a lot. :eek:

[griptape]

*** My only question is can I save more than one of these? from the way it sounded it was like I could have one for every room? ***

All you would need to do is shoot that poster board (or anything else white) in your different rooms. Memorizing which is which is another issue, but if it's how you'd rather do it, that's up to you. Keep in mind that it doesn't need to be in focus, it just needs to fill the frame. So even if your shutter speed is very slow, it's still not an issue that will affect you setting your white balance.

[techiedude21]

All you would need to do is shoot that poster board (or anything else white) in your different rooms. Memorizing which is which is another issue, but if it's how you'd rather do it, that's up to you. Keep in mind that it doesn't need to be in focus, it just needs to fill the frame. So even if your shutter speed is very slow, it's still not an issue that will affect you setting your white balance.

wow fast responses!

does this mean I will just need to keep several images on a memory card, and simply reapply the one I need for each room???

[talkingdog]

hey i think I've got it!!

talking dog - thanks for your enouraging comments. You helped me to keep the faith.

here is the story..
The first shot is the poster board (pretty exciting eh?)
It was shot at ISO 400 without flash, in my current room.

Then I applied that that shot in custom white balance, then changed to custom white balance, AND took the 2nd shot.

WHOOLA!! here it is, straight from the cam!

*** My only question is can I save more than one of these? from the way it sounded it was like I could have one for every room? ***

-- wow I feel so much better after figuring this out finally! :cool:

Glad to here you got it straightened out. White balance is so good it looks like it was photoshopped. There are so many adjustmaents and these dslr's it is hard to remember everything.
Yes, I believe you can save several and refer back to them. I have a couple saved in my camera for around the house.

[Mark_48]

You've seen the Expodisc. If you're willing to experiment a little, try cutting out a 2"x2" square from a piece of white diffuser plastic like what's used in a flourescent lighting fixture and holding it up to the front of your lens to do the white balance. Just capture the ambient light in the general direction you're going to shoot in. It's not perfect, but has been pretty close in some of the trial shots I've made.
The Expodisc supposedly will allow setting of the exposure. The density of the white diffuser plastic wouldn't be "calibrated" to do this.