A little peeved.

[Nickcanada]

So you know that wedding I shot in Dominican for my sister in law. Well there is a little bit of media thing going on right now about it. Apparently Dominican has been a little laid back about processing their wedding paperwork and a few couples have contacted the media stating there is a wedding scam going on etc. :rolleyes: so my sister in law contacted the media asking for more details and they decided to feature her story on the local news and also run some stories in the Toronto Star.

Well that is all very nice, but they are freaking using my images on the news with zero compensation! Now honestly I don't care but yesterday was her birth day and my wife and I decided to get a bunch of 4x6 prints from the wedding printed out and put in a wedding album for them because they had not printed any yet. She said thank you and was very appreciative but then she says "I was wondering when you were going to get these printed"........ ummm that bothered me a bit.......... a lot actually........ :mad:

Maybe I'm just being sensitive and should start charging more to sooth my sensitive nature.

Anyway, I'm not really upset but I thought I would vent a little. Thanks. :D

[FLiPMaRC]

Money soothes all ailes :p :D

[cdifoto]

That's how it goes when you work cheap or free. They expect too much.

[VTEC_EATER]

Well, I can only assume, because of the relationship you have with the Bride you probably did not have a contract signed with them? That pretty much throws everything out the window. If you did have a contract signed, that states exactly what can and can not be reproduced or used without your consent, then you may have a foot to stand on.

Anyways, be thankful you were not working for this client (See below).

I found this on Nikonians:

This is an email response to a friend of a friend of mine from a potential client. He sent her a quote based on her needs and this was her reply:

Thank you for the email!! I have to admit the prices caught me off guard since I am on such a tight budget. However, I hope we can come up with a package that meets both our needs and our budget so here goes.
This is what I WANT and what I'm willing to pay for.
-3 photographers for wedding day
-Complete photo editing & website viewing of pictures
-8-12 hours of wedding photography coverage
-1, 50 page 12x16 album
-2 Parent 6x8 albums
-2 Grandparent 6x8 albums
- Bridal session at location of our choice (1-2 hours) includes 1-16x20,1-11x14, 2-8x10, 3-5x7
-Engagement session at location of our choice (1-2 hours) includes 1-16x20, 2-11x14, 2-8x10, 3-5x7
I really don't want to spend no more than 500-600 dollars. I know I might be asking for just a bit much but I know what prints REALLY cost and I know how long it takes to REALLY photoshop images so I know you will give me a fare price.
Best Wishes,

[TheWengler]

Wow, these stories make me want to only take pictures for myself and certainly not for a bride.

[adam75south]

man i hear ya 100%....everybody wants a deal. it gets frustrating.

[cdifoto]

Well, I can only assume, because of the relationship you have with the Bride you probably did not have a contract signed with them? That pretty much throws everything out the window. If you did have a contract signed, that states exactly what can and can not be reproduced or used without your consent, then you may have a foot to stand on.

Anyways, be thankful you were not working for this client (See below).

I found this on Nikonians:

This is an email response to a friend of a friend of mine from a potential client. He sent her a quote based on her needs and this was her reply:

Thank you for the email!! I have to admit the prices caught me off guard since I am on such a tight budget. However, I hope we can come up with a package that meets both our needs and our budget so here goes.
This is what I WANT and what I'm willing to pay for.
-3 photographers for wedding day
-Complete photo editing & website viewing of pictures
-8-12 hours of wedding photography coverage
-1, 50 page 12x16 album
-2 Parent 6x8 albums
-2 Grandparent 6x8 albums
- Bridal session at location of our choice (1-2 hours) includes 1-16x20,1-11x14, 2-8x10, 3-5x7
-Engagement session at location of our choice (1-2 hours) includes 1-16x20, 2-11x14, 2-8x10, 3-5x7
I really don't want to spend no more than 500-600 dollars. I know I might be asking for just a bit much but I know what prints REALLY cost and I know how long it takes to REALLY photoshop images so I know you will give me a fare price.
Best Wishes,

lol I'd just respond with a simple "Good luck" :D

I have a cheap package for those on a tight budget but they don't get much product. I tell them straight up they're not getting a lot of stuff but they're getting great images and they can order any additional products later. I also only shoot for 2 hours, but I emphasize that a lot can be done in two hours if they give me time with just them alone so we can create intimate photos. A photo walk, as it were.

[adam75south]

Well, I can only assume, because of the relationship you have with the Bride you probably did not have a contract signed with them? That pretty much throws everything out the window. If you did have a contract signed, that states exactly what can and can not be reproduced or used without your consent, then you may have a foot to stand on.

Anyways, be thankful you were not working for this client (See below).

I found this on Nikonians:

This is an email response to a friend of a friend of mine from a potential client. He sent her a quote based on her needs and this was her reply:

Thank you for the email!! I have to admit the prices caught me off guard since I am on such a tight budget. However, I hope we can come up with a package that meets both our needs and our budget so here goes.
This is what I WANT and what I'm willing to pay for.
-3 photographers for wedding day
-Complete photo editing & website viewing of pictures
-8-12 hours of wedding photography coverage
-1, 50 page 12x16 album
-2 Parent 6x8 albums
-2 Grandparent 6x8 albums
- Bridal session at location of our choice (1-2 hours) includes 1-16x20,1-11x14, 2-8x10, 3-5x7
-Engagement session at location of our choice (1-2 hours) includes 1-16x20, 2-11x14, 2-8x10, 3-5x7
I really don't want to spend no more than 500-600 dollars. I know I might be asking for just a bit much but I know what prints REALLY cost and I know how long it takes to REALLY photoshop images so I know you will give me a fare price.
Best Wishes,
she must be out of her mind.

if i go into my skin smoothing and cloning and stuff like that, i can easily spend an hour on a single picture.

[GaryS]

Forget the photoshoping and print costs.... 3 photographers for 8-12 hours of coverage, for 1-2 hours for bridal, and 1-2 hours for engagement, all for $600!

Thats nutty....

[cdifoto]

Some people have difficulty with the concept that photographers are in business to make a profit, not to break even.

[cdifoto]

Forgetting about all the other stuff (like actually shooting the wedding), I don't even know what kind of 50 page 12x16 album you can possibly buy for $600. Certainly nothing of quality.

[Rooz]

She said thank you and was very appreciative but then she says "I was wondering when you were going to get these printed"........ ummm that bothered me a bit.......... a lot actually........ :mad:

Maybe I'm just being sensitive and should start charging more to sooth my sensitive nature.

Anyway, I'm not really upset but I thought I would vent a little. Thanks. :D

i dont think thats being oversensitive at all. it would piss me off too. it has nothing to do with you being too cheap either. it has to do with OTHER people being too cheap and quite frankly just being assholes.

i wouldn;t let it get to you too much, but comments like that do piss you off. even when they are said in jest.

[Zoinac]

Can I try that at the local photo store? I would like a 1ds, a 70-200 2.8, and a pro-photo printer... and this is what I'm willing to pay. :d

[Nickcanada]

That is insane!!!! 600!! how depressing. I'm really feeling like I should buy a macro lens and shoot flowers exclusively!

You know, the stuff about my sister in law was a little disappointing but what really gets to me is my wife.

We had decided to do this print thing for her birthday a few months ago but I've had a lot going on and I wanted to wait until I was calibrated with a new system so I could properly go through the entire weeks worth of photos and choose the best photos that summed up the week. Well her birthday dinner crept up on me and I lost track of when I needed to complete the project. I ended up waking up early one morning and spending 3 hours before work to sort through about 2000 photos adjust WB and do other minor touch ups, some B&W conversions etc. so they would be done that day. I ended up with about 200 photos for print.

I give the CD to my wife to get printed and after work she gives me shit for "not taking it seriously" and putting pictures on the CD she felt were not worth printing.... she ended up printing about 50 of the 200 I picked and edited. I'll admit that not all of them were perfect technically but they all had a story to tell and I picked all of them for a specific reason. I've never felt so humbled and crappy about my photography.

Oh ya and my photos were aired on national (Canadian) television and will be printed in tomorrow's newspaper. wooppieeee.... :rolleyes:

[TNB]

I found this on Nikonians:

This is an email response to a friend of a friend of mine from a potential client. He sent her a quote based on her needs and this was her reply:

Thank you for the email!! I have to admit the prices caught me off guard since I am on such a tight budget. However, I hope we can come up with a package that meets both our needs and our budget so here goes.
This is what I WANT and what I'm willing to pay for.
-3 photographers for wedding day
-Complete photo editing & website viewing of pictures
-8-12 hours of wedding photography coverage
-1, 50 page 12x16 album
-2 Parent 6x8 albums
-2 Grandparent 6x8 albums
- Bridal session at location of our choice (1-2 hours) includes 1-16x20,1-11x14, 2-8x10, 3-5x7
-Engagement session at location of our choice (1-2 hours) includes 1-16x20, 2-11x14, 2-8x10, 3-5x7
I really don't want to spend no more than 500-600 dollars. I know I might be asking for just a bit much but I know what prints REALLY cost and I know how long it takes to REALLY photoshop images so I know you will give me a fare price.
Best Wishes,

12 hours + 2 hours + 2 hours = 16 hours.
3 people x 16 hours = 48 hours.
500/48 is about $10 per hour.
Then there is everything else....

How much does the bride and groom earn per hour? $10? More or less? Then figure in print costs--at least one of the two soon to be divorced couple should know some math. Then again, perhaps the divorce rate is different. If not...

lol I'd just respond with a simple "Good luck" :D

I would have probably asked them if they knew the minimum wage rate in this country (or that country). Quite frankly, I would have never haggled with them at all since in the long run, it wouldn't be worth it. After all, aren't they "paying" everyone else involved in their wedding? Are they taking a honeymoon? If not, then perhaps, they shouldn't get married and save the hassle of a divorce down the road.

Some people have difficulty with the concept that photographers are in business to make a profit, not to break even.
That's not even close to "breaking even". For that matter, just direct them to the camera store and let them purchase their own equipment.

You know, the stuff about my sister in law was a little disappointing but what really gets to me is my wife.
That's one reason there is a saying about NEVER doing business with FAMILY.

[cwphoto]

That's how it goes when you work cheap or free. They expect too much.

Bingo. :rolleyes:

[cwphoto]

Some people have difficulty with the concept that photographers are in business to make a profit, not to break even.

Double bingo. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Nickcanada]

That's one reason there is a saying about NEVER doing business with FAMILY.


Well I don't consider it business. I was taking photos of my family. I would rather take the chance that people might not like what I do and try then run from the situation. I knew that there was a chance of this happening but I did it anyway and I would do it again too. It's just a lot for the old ego to take all in a few days. :o

[michaelb]

Well, I can only assume, because of the relationship you have with the Bride you probably did not have a contract signed with them? That pretty much throws everything out the window. If you did have a contract signed, that states exactly what can and can not be reproduced or used without your consent, then you may have a foot to stand on.

Anyways, be thankful you were not working for this client (See below).

I found this on Nikonians:

This is an email response to a friend of a friend of mine from a potential client. He sent her a quote based on her needs and this was her reply:

Thank you for the email!! I have to admit the prices caught me off guard since I am on such a tight budget. However, I hope we can come up with a package that meets both our needs and our budget so here goes.
This is what I WANT and what I'm willing to pay for.
-3 photographers for wedding day
-Complete photo editing & website viewing of pictures
-8-12 hours of wedding photography coverage
-1, 50 page 12x16 album
-2 Parent 6x8 albums
-2 Grandparent 6x8 albums
- Bridal session at location of our choice (1-2 hours) includes 1-16x20,1-11x14, 2-8x10, 3-5x7
-Engagement session at location of our choice (1-2 hours) includes 1-16x20, 2-11x14, 2-8x10, 3-5x7
I really don't want to spend no more than 500-600 dollars. I know I might be asking for just a bit much but I know what prints REALLY cost and I know how long it takes to REALLY photoshop images so I know you will give me a fare price.
Best Wishes,

I know basically zero about wedding photography and this even makes me laugh.


I'm really feeling like I should buy a macro lens and shoot flowers exclusively!...


That's my strategy. :D
Seriously though, I'm not sure I would enjoy photography if it was my "job.".

[njoy_az]

...
I'm really feeling like I should buy a macro lens and shoot flowers exclusively!
...

Like michaelb said: One of the distinct advantages of shooting nature is that it can not complain about the picture's quality. :D

[drama]

Nick
I feel for you :(
SO, I was recently at my cousins wedding, took some gear along for some candids
Well the 70 200, soon people were ordering me around as if I was the photographer
This was what I came back with :D

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2135/2257867326_043c9ca1e9_b.jpg
btw, congrats on making the paper & TV :)

[njoy_az]

:D

Congrats from me, too. :)

[Nickcanada]

hehe, Drama, you should name that one "Don't fear the reaper".

Thanks guys! Your support is a appreciated!

I don't feel so bad anymore. I suggested a few photos to send in to the paper to my sister. She didn't send any of the ones I suggested and the paper ended up printing this one......

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k320/livelifelivepics/_MG_2312.jpg

I didn't even take this one.... but I got the credit for it! haha. I gave my cameras to a few other people during the ceremony because I was the best man. Personally I think there are much more flattering pictures she could have sent in of herself. Oh well! haha.

musicphotographers.net sent me a PM yesterday because there was an unexpected influx of hits on my name from google. I guess people were checking out my profile there. I'm kinda disappointed the first picture all those people saw was that one. Talk about not putting your best foot forward.

[Nickcanada]

Oh I should add. I didn't trip the shutter but I set the camera up in manual mode, coached the person (who had never used a SLR) and edited the pictures after the fact... legally they still own the copy rights to the photo though.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k320/livelifelivepics/_MG_2311.jpg

[michaelb]

. .. I've never felt so humbled and crappy about my photography....

Nick, I've seen you post some really great photos here; don't let this kind of crap dissuade you.

[Nickcanada]

Nick, I've seen you post some really great photos here; don't let this kind of crap dissuade you.

Thanks Micheal! I feel much better about all of it. I think what bugs me most is that I put so much into this "hobby" and then feel like the work is not recognized but I can't fault other people for that. I really do have to set people up to understand what value I place on my photography. I don't mean money either I mean I'm usually very laid back about when I say "ya sure I'll do that for you" I don't think they realize how much I actually care about it and how much of myself I put into it.

[cwphoto]

Nick, I've seen you post some really great photos here; don't let this kind of crap dissuade you.

Totally seconded.

[zmikers]

Totally seconded.

Me too dude. You've posted some awesome stuff, and it is obvious how dedicated you are to this, "hobby." I always jump straight into your thread if I see that you've posted some new photos and I'm never disappointed.

[Nickcanada]

Thanks CW and zmikers! it means a lot coming from fellow photographers. :)

[killing switch]

wow what a nut case

[r6isnum1]

seriously that woman is crazy... 500-600 bucks... i dont know how i'd respond to that email... i'm sure it wouldnt be nice... she basically said he's a con artist..

anyway, congrats on the making the paper nick.

[Vich]

Congrads on getting in the paper! I agree; I never fail to jump in and view your stuff. Always good stuff.

All in all, it seems like it was a fun vacation and chance to use your skills. It's unfortunate they didn't choose your suggested shots. I'd have to say that, despite a couple of technical shortcomings, that photo does catch a moment that says "happy wedding in the tropics". So; it's not a bad choice in that very important aspect.


Feel for you on imagined promises and expectations over free work. It's amazing how no good deed goes unpunished, hua?

Here's what I've found about doing free photography. Unless it's for another photographer, I simply have to be willing to do almost immediate PP. As we all know; PP adds the needed polish and can't be half-assed. On free event's I've covered that I delayed the PP too long - I barely got a thank-you and sometimes actually got complaints or otherwise discovered that my good name was a bit smeared as a result.

On the reverse; delivering final results within a few days, with EMAILs, links, etc. gets raving kudos and thanks.

So; I just love doing free photography for other photographers. :D

[Nickcanada]

Thanks guys!

Vich, you know my experiences are very similar to yours. I had my Aunt shoot my wedding and she offered to do it for free but I made sure that I gave her a good "tip" on top of her costs.

I've shot concerts for other photographers who are also musicians and boy there really is a difference. I told him he could download the web sized files. He copied a bunch and told me to bill him whatever I wanted to, no questions asked.

[Nickcanada]

Just to give you an idea of the pictures I thought would be more appropriate...

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k320/livelifelivepics/_MG_9844.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k320/livelifelivepics/IMG_9546.jpg

The one above just screams Dominican wedding scam to me.

What do you guys think?

[Vich]

"scam" is a rip-off that vastly under delivers (or non-delivers) the promised goods. I guess one would have to compare it with the brochure photo to illustrate that it's a scam. I've seen some pretty modest US beach weddings with far less than shown in that photo. The guy wore a tie, they had chairs and flowers, ribbons, real beach location. I guess I don't quite understand the problem.

I'd say your shots are a lot better technically, but the newspaper one captured an explosively happy bride's smile. You're right; it doesn't say "scam".

Maybe they picked the one requiring the fewest signed releases. The paper took a leap using your photo without permission, but maybe there is something to using the one shot by a nameless stranger on your gear (ie: no firm copyright).

[Nickcanada]

I should clarify, the photo that was printed was shot by my brother in law using my camera. I set the camera up and told him to go crazy. He actually took the two photos I suggested as well.

The back story is that the Dominican wedding coordinator and "judge" would go through the ceremony but not file the paperwork and just take the money and run. It's not really an issue because the Dominican Government is taking care of it and there is no real proof there even is a "scam", so far it's just been slow paper work processing, impatient brides, and a bored media.

I just like the bride's maid looking over the shoulder of the judge with a questioning look on her face in that photo.

[Vich]

I should clarify, the photo that was printed was shot by my brother in law using my camera. I set the camera up and told him to go crazy. He actually took the two photos I suggested as well.

The back story is that the Dominican wedding coordinator and "judge" would go through the ceremony but not file the paperwork and just take the money and run. It's not really an issue because the Dominican Government is taking care of it and there is no real proof there even is a "scam", so far it's just been slow paper work processing, impatient brides, and a bored media.

I just like the bride's maid looking over the shoulder of the judge with a questioning look on her face in that photo.
Thanks for the clarifications.

Love the colorful dresses (all the pretty ladies doesn't hurt either)! What a great get-away. Bet the photos in the paper boost their business. Hope it helps yours too.

[Nickcanada]

Thanks for the clarifications.

Love the colorful dresses (all the pretty ladies doesn't hurt either)! What a great get-away. Bet the photos in the paper boost their business. Hope it helps yours too.



Boost my business!?! I think I'm going to retire. hahaha! :D